Horror Factor

[Killer Cyborg]

So I'm working on updating the supernatural monster creation tables from the main book.
I have gotten a lot of it done, but am working on Horror Factor.

It seems to me that there should be a bunch of modifiers to Horror Factor. Things like:
-If the monster has been encountered before
-If the PC has killed one of the monsters before
-If the PC has lost a battle to one of the monsters before
-The number of monsters
-The number or people on the PCs side (and their firepower)
-The size of the monster.
-The intelligence of the character (higher = more penalty to save)

And so on.

So my questions are:

1. Are there canon rules for this sort of modifier?
If so, where and what?
2. What do you think the modifiers should be?

[Marrowlight]

This one is a little tricky, but I think there should be a definite modifier based on character XP level (their may be already and I'm just forgetting it) But after you've been seeing stuff for five or six levels, even if they aren't quite as nasty as say a Baal-Rog or a Gigante having relations, they'll do a good job of numbing a character.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Kevin has stated in the past to modify the Horror Factor as applicable to the situation. As, obviously, the situation has alot to do with how scary something is.

~ Josh

[KLM]

Range is a factor: I would say, that if you confront
a critter in melee range you roll vs. HF with -2,
but if it appears in a distance, every second you
have untill it can attack you (in melee, usually) gives
you a bonus. For example a monster, which appear
at 100 meter, and needs 5 seconds to close in for clawing,
has its HF reduced by one.
IMO of course.

Plus Horror Factor is sometimes treated like
a magic-like effect - and against a Domination
it really doesn't matter how familiar are you
to the spell.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

-The intelligence of the character (higher = more penalty to save)

Oh, I missed that point - and have to say NO to it.

If something between the ears, than it is the ME attribute
which shows a character's ability to deal with sudden
and/or frightening things.

Adios
KLM

[Dead Boy]

Another modifieer you should consider is the experience level of the character defending against the HF. A green newbie should be a lot easier to intimidate than a hardened vet.

-The intelligence of the character (higher = more penalty to save)

Oh, I missed that point - and have to say NO to it.

Personally, I rather like that one. Stupid people SHOULD be quicker to jump into harm's way. That's one of the things that make them stoopid.

[KLM]

Another modifieer you should consider is the experience level of the character defending against the HF. A green newbie should be a lot easier to intimidate than a hardened vet.

-The intelligence of the character (higher = more penalty to save)

Oh, I missed that point - and have to say NO to it.

Personally, I rather like that one. Stupid people SHOULD be quicker to jump into harm's way. That's one of the things that make them stoopid.

But HF is about whether the character "feezes" from shock
or not.
What people decide to do when acting on their own decision
is not something clearly (and alone) determined by intellect.

Fighter pilots are not your archetipical dumb cannon-fodder, yet
they are supposed to be aggressive and not easily shocked.

Also, a not very smart person would more readily succumb to
tank-panic, but a more clever person would trust in his shelter
and ATGM.

Of course, if you want Victor Lazlo, and Platon to be cowards,
go ahead, be my guest (yeah, telling the right thing to Dead Boy :D - no pun intended. ).

----------------
As for experience level... Just as physical attributes can be
raised with practice, there should be way to raise ME (boot camp
does it well), as well as it should come with experience, especially
with Men-at-Arms.

Adios
KLM

[Killer Cyborg]

Range is a factor: I would say, that if you confront
a critter in melee range you roll vs. HF with -2,
but if it appears in a distance, every second you
have untill it can attack you (in melee, usually) gives
you a bonus. For example a monster, which appear
at 100 meter, and needs 5 seconds to close in for clawing,
has its HF reduced by one.
IMO of course.

You are absolutely right.

Plus Horror Factor is sometimes treated like
a magic-like effect - and against a Domination
it really doesn't matter how familiar are you
to the spell.

Adios
KLM

Agreed.
I think that familiarity should help, but only to a certain extent.

[Marrowlight]

Plus Horror Factor is sometimes treated like
a magic-like effect - and against a Domination
it really doesn't matter how familiar are you
to the spell.

Adios
KLM

Agreed.
I think that familiarity should help, but only to a certain extent.

So should there be two different Horror Factors then? A natural one and one that is a magical ability of some races?

I could see how each should have totally different saves myself. Something that sweats 'fear' versus something that's just horrific to look at.

[Killer Cyborg]

Another modifieer you should consider is the experience level of the character defending against the HF. A green newbie should be a lot easier to intimidate than a hardened vet.

In theory, I can agree. In practice, I can't think of a good way to work it. Some OCCs already get a bonus to save vs. HF as they go up in level, so if I gave an across-the-board bonus then these guys would end up with an obscene boost.
Also, experience only prepares you for supernatural horror if youre experience is in the area of supernatural horror.
For example, a 15th level Body Fixer may have gotten all his XP from problem solving, saving lives, and skill performances. He may have never even heard of a Brodkil, much less run into one.

-The intelligence of the character (higher = more penalty to save)

Oh, I missed that point - and have to say NO to it.

Personally, I rather like that one. Stupid people SHOULD be quicker to jump into harm's way. That's one of the things that make them stoopid.

That's the idea.
I can see both sides, and I'm not sure which way I'll eventually take things.
Which is why I posted it here, to get more input on the idea.

I think a good way to go would be to chalk a lot up to the threat level the monster poses. If the PCs would get only 25 XP if they beat the thing(s), then they would also get a bonus to save against it.
That might be a good place for IQ to come in; IF it's a minor threat then IQ gives a bonus to save, if it's a serious threat then it gives a penalty because you know exactly how screwed you are.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I only have HF as a 1 time only thing.

meaning once you meet a being, your immune to it's horror factor from then on.

[Dead Boy]

Another modifieer you should consider is the experience level of the character defending against the HF. A green newbie should be a lot easier to intimidate than a hardened vet.

In theory, I can agree. In practice, I can't think of a good way to work it. Some OCCs already get a bonus to save vs. HF as they go up in level, so if I gave an across-the-board bonus then these guys would end up with an obscene boost.

Well that's easy enough to work out. Just make those who already have their own set of bonuses exempt, and then make the experienced based bonuse to save v HF a tad less effective than theirs so those OCC's special bonus can still be special.

As for making it more diverse from character class to claracter class, I say break it down into the four larger categorical groups of OCCs. I'm thinking something like this:

+1 to save v HF at levels...
Men at Arms: 4, 8, 12 & 15
Adv. & Scholars: 5, 10 & 15
Pract. of Magic: 3, 7, 11 & 15
Psychics: 4, 7, 10 & 13

[Dead Boy]

I only have HF as a 1 time only thing.

meaning once you meet a being, your immune to it's horror factor from then on.

I kind of like that. And it has the smell of realism too.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I only have HF as a 1 time only thing.

meaning once you meet a being, your immune to it's horror factor from then on.

I kind of like that. And it has the smell of realism too.

that said, it has exceptions.

if you have a super bad/near death experiance the first time, it's likely something that will take many encounters to get over.

and also it kind of depends on the race if I apply it to all members of that race or just each individual.

for instance, if you've seen one gargoyle you've seen them all.

but just because your buddies with one dragon dosn't mean THIS one is going to refrain from eating you...

[The Beast]

I only have HF as a 1 time only thing.

meaning once you meet a being, your immune to it's horror factor from then on.

I kind of like that. And it has the smell of realism too.

that said, it has exceptions.

if you have a super bad/near death experiance the first time, it's likely something that will take many encounters to get over.

and also it kind of depends on the race if I apply it to all members of that race or just each individual.

for instance, if you've seen one gargoyle you've seen them all.

but just because your buddies with one dragon dosn't mean THIS one is going to refrain from eating you...

I was just about to sugest that.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Kevin has stated in the past to modify the Horror Factor as applicable to the situation. As, obviously, the situation has alot to do with how scary something is.

~ Josh

LOL It would be kinda hard to be scared of a Baal-Rog dressed up as a clown or Ballerina eh?

Dan.

on the contraary...that's at least a +2 to horror factor...

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Kevin has stated in the past to modify the Horror Factor as applicable to the situation. As, obviously, the situation has alot to do with how scary something is.

~ Josh

LOL It would be kinda hard to be scared of a Baal-Rog dressed up as a clown or Ballerina eh?

Dan.

As if I needed another reason to hate clowns...

[demos606]

Clowns deserve a Horror Factor all their own just for being too creepy for words. A Baal-Rog dressed as a clown may even go as far as to be unresistably horrifying if the clown suit is good enough.

[Killer Cyborg]

I only have HF as a 1 time only thing.

meaning once you meet a being, your immune to it's horror factor from then on.

I kind of like that. And it has the smell of realism too.

that said, it has exceptions.
if you have a super bad/near death experiance the first time, it's likely something that will take many encounters to get over.
and also it kind of depends on the race if I apply it to all members of that race or just each individual.
for instance, if you've seen one gargoyle you've seen them all.
but just because your buddies with one dragon dosn't mean THIS one is going to refrain from eating you...

There's a LOT of factors involved.
If you see a gargoyle once, wet yourself, and run screaming into the night, I don't see any reason that the gargoyle (or any other one) should lose his HF against you the next time you bump into him.

That's why I'm trying to come up with something more solid, like -1 to HF for every positive encounter (i.e., wasn't in serious danger).

Of course, there's also the implication that HF comes in part from a supernatural aura around the creature. That's something that you should have to save against every time.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

I'm too tired to look through the rest of the thread, so I apologize if I'm echoing someone else's suggestion.

Has preparedness been brought up as a factor? A soldier used to confronting supernatural threats in his power armor may have a bonus to resist HF, but what happens if he's out of his armor the next time a monster shows up?

Mages and psychics, they're used to being able to defend themselves with their paranormal powers, a reason for a bonus all on its own, since they may not need to rely on anything else for survival. If they've used their abilities extensively over a short period of time, their ISP or PPE could be severely depleted. That's a good reason to lose a bit of confidence in yourself and maybe give into your fear. Slapping them with penalties as their energy gets lower and lower would be interesting, right down till they're drained...

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm too tired to look through the rest of the thread, so I apologize if I'm echoing someone else's suggestion.

Has preparedness been brought up as a factor? A soldier used to confronting supernatural threats in his power armor may have a bonus to resist HF, but what happens if he's out of his armor the next time a monster shows up?

Hmm.
Nobody's addressed that directly, but I'd put that under the banner of "threat level".
Of course, there's still a difference between:
-strolling down the street, fully armed, in your EBA, whistling and thinking about happy things when a demon jumps out and grabs your head
-Hunting a demon, knowing it's scary, and bracing your self for battle.

I think that preparedness should indeed be a factor.

[KLM]

That is the point, when "Detect ambush" comes into play.

Adios
KLM

[Killer Cyborg]

That is the point, when "Detect ambush" comes into play.

Adios
KLM

I always used the skill to detect ambushes, but the RUE description only allows it to detect possible ambush sites and methods.
That can help a bit, but since it's not able to detect someone/something prowling up on you, it's not of much help.

[The Beast]

That is the point, when "Detect ambush" comes into play.

Adios
KLM

I always used the skill to detect ambushes, but the RUE description only allows it to detect possible ambush sites and methods.
That can help a bit, but since it's not able to detect someone/something prowling up on you, it's not of much help.

Same way with the RMB.

[Dead Boy]

That's why I'm trying to come up with something more solid, like -1 to HF for every positive encounter (i.e., wasn't in serious danger).

Jeez! That would require each player to keep a log of every critter each of his characters have encountered and how his rolls went. Sounds kind of ungainly and awkward to handle just to determine HF to me.

[Killer Cyborg]

That is the point, when "Detect ambush" comes into play.

Adios
KLM

I always used the skill to detect ambushes, but the RUE description only allows it to detect possible ambush sites and methods.
That can help a bit, but since it's not able to detect someone/something prowling up on you, it's not of much help.

Same way with the RMB.

It was worded vaguely enough for alternate interpretations. RUE cleared things up.

[Killer Cyborg]

That's why I'm trying to come up with something more solid, like -1 to HF for every positive encounter (i.e., wasn't in serious danger).

Jeez! That would require each player to keep a log of every critter each of his characters have encountered and how his rolls went. Sounds kind of ungainly and awkward to handle just to determine HF to me.

Yes.
To me too.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

That's why I'm trying to come up with something more solid, like -1 to HF for every positive encounter (i.e., wasn't in serious danger).

Jeez! That would require each player to keep a log of every critter each of his characters have encountered and how his rolls went. Sounds kind of ungainly and awkward to handle just to determine HF to me.

Yes.
To me too.

It wouldn't be too bad if you kept things generalized. Most creatures with a HF can be grouped into various categories; dragons, demons, undead, etc, etc, etc.

[Zer0 Kay]

Bah I just added flavor to HF by making somone with a failed role role on the phobia effect table to see what they'd do. As horror doesn't always make someone just stop.

I also give HF bonus for ME and +1 per level if the PC any of the XP gained for that level was due to the critter, if the same critter is encountered but no XP is gained due to the PC and not just the GM not giving XP.
For example:

--A 1st lvl LLW runs into a witchling and even though he failed his HF and emptied an entire clip at it while sheilding his eyes and squealing like a stuck pig, he eventually manages to regain his composure, exchange clips and partakes in the witchlings death.
+1! This bonus doesn't take effect until 2nd level is reached.
--Any other encounters with a witchling while gaining XP towards 2nd level has no additional possitive effect... unless the bonus is lost.
--A few gaming sessions later the LLW runs into the previous witchlings sibling (wicked witchling of the East?) and fails his HF roll again this time he runs away and doesn't come back.
-1 The bonus is gone.
--That same game session the witchling find the LLW and though he fails HF AGAIN and cowers in a corner his buddies are able to fend the beast off long enough for him to come to his senses and assist in causing the witchlings route.
--OK, same LLW gets to 2nd level and doesn't encounter a witchling.
--3rd level comes around and he encounters the same witchling again... FINALLY he succedes his save vs. HF. The witchling though evil and spitefull realizes that the PC's are now over equiped for her to have a chance. She begs for mercy, of course plotting to find the LLW when he's alone and unarmed. The LLW grants her mercy (the GM gives XP for avoiding violence).
+1 vs. HF! for a total of +2 upon reaching 4th level not including any ME bonuses.
(Note: bonus was due to XP gained NOT succeding the HF roll... though a GM could always give it, taking pitty on the pittiful dice roller.)

[Tigermuppetcut]

What you really don't need is more damn book-keeping!

Have an HF the first time something is encountered.

Have it every time after that (no book-keeping see) unless a player brings up (in character) a reason that they shouldn't "Hey they ain't so bad, I fought one of those ugly muthas toe to toe and I'm still here ain't I" etc.

In certain situations (GM's fiat) ignore the second rule (e.g. a PC has fought and killed zombies before but when one bursts out of the darkness inches from his face as he opens the hatch to a transport make him roll. Or the PC saw the creature before but it carved up 2 of his friends and forced him into a fighting retreat.)

Basically put have the burden on the players to roleplay a reason not to have to roll, if they can;t then they roll every time.

As for scary creatures ending up scared themselves you could just say that if there is a 3 point HF difference or more then the scarier guy isn't fazed by the lesser guy.