PHASE WORLD: where are the heavy weapons?

[Braden Campbell]

in a universe filled with Naruni auto cannons, gravitonic railgun rifles, and HI lasers...where are the heavy weapons?

I mean, if your average, Terran, PS of 11 CAF Trooper can carry Naruni Shoulder cannon, capable of punching through a light APC...what do giant 'Borgs carry?

Specificly, I'm thinking of the Central Allaince, where there are soldier 'Borgs running around who stand about 15' tall. According to the borg rules in Rifts Russia, I can dish out more with a HI-80 than they can with a mega railgun.

Solutions?

[LunarYoma]

nab up 2 of those multi weapos systems of the silverhawk attack exoskeleton.

do a combi weapon (like on WH 40k) by paying a master craftman/engineer to combineing 2 multi weapons into one that allows for hooking upto the borg for its energy requirements.

[Braden Campbell]

you know, amazingly, there is no weight listed for that gun...

[Dr. Doom III]

you know, amazingly, there is no weight listed for that gun...

It has a built in Contragravity field.

This Gomen_Nagai moment brought to you by Dr. Doom v.3.2.5

[Gomen_Nagai]

... I don't know what you're talking about the Hi-80 is a Bursting High Energy laser Rifle. It's not that great...


if you want more fun weapons of Mass Destruction, Look in Naruni Wave II and in PW 3 Galaxies book.

[Braden Campbell]

... I don't know what you're talking about the Hi-80 is a Bursting High Energy laser Rifle. It's not that great...
.

I'm sorry, but you are on crack. The HI-80 has got to be one of the most impressive rifles going.

2D4x10 for 2000' with a 10 shot payload...OR 100 of those triple bursts when connected to an armour back-disk.

I cannot think of a man-portable energy weapon that can top it.

[Jefffar]

If I had the chance to rewrite rifts from the beginign, btu had to use the MDC system as it is, I'd do the following.

Typical Damages per shot by Weapon Class,:

Light Pistol - 1D6 (ie C-18)
Average Pistol - 2D6 (ie NG-57)
Heavy Pistol - 3D6 (ie NG-45LP)

Light Rifle/Carbine - 2D6 (ie C-10 Laser Rifle)
Typical Rifle - 3D6 (ie C-12 Laser Rifle)
High Powered Rifle - 4D6 (ie TX-30 Ion Rifle)
Anti-Materiel Rifle - 1D4x10 (ie I-11 Long Gun)

Light machinegun - 3D6 (ie CS Deadman's Railgun)
Medium machinegun - 4D6 (ie TX-500)
Heavy machinegun - 1D4x10 (ie C-40R)

Anti-Tank/Anti-Robot Weapon - 1D6x100 (ie ATL-7, Boom Gun)
AP Mini Missile - 1D6x100, low blast radius
Frag Mini Missile - 1D4x100 to a low blast radius and 1D4x10 to a large blast radius
Plasma Mini Missile: 4D6x10 medium blast radius, 4D6 to a large blast radius

Tank Cannon /Heavy Robot Weapon: - 2D6x100 (ie the "rifle" carried by the Tx-5000 Devastator)
AP Short or Medium Range Missiles - 2D6x100 medium blast radius
Frag Short or Medium Range Missiles - 2D4x100 to a low blast radius and 2D4x10 to a large blast radius
Plasma Short or Medium Range Missiles - 1D6x100 medium blast radius, 1D6x10 to a large blast radius

Anti-spaceship / strategic bombardment weaponry: 4D6x100 and up
Long Range Missiles: 1D6x1000 and up.

Typical MDC values

Light Body Armour: - 10 (ie Huntsman)
Medium Body Armour - 20 (ie Bushman)
Heavy Body Armour - 40 (ie T-10)

Light Power Armour - 30 (ie Terrain Hopper)
Medium Power Armour - 60 (ie SAMAS)
Heavy Power Armour - 120 (ie Super Samas)
Super-Heavy Power Armour - 240 (ie Glitter Boy)

Light Robot - 150 (ie TR-003)
Medium Robot - 300 (ie TX-2000 Dyna-Max)
Heavy Robot - 600 (ie TX-2500 Black Knight)
Super Heavy Assault Robot - 900 (ie TX-5000 Devastator)

Armoured Fighting Vehicle/Light Tank - 200 (ie CS Mark IV)
Medium Tank - 400 (ie IHA Iron Fist)
Main Battle Tank - 800 (ie IHA Iron Hammer)
Super Heavy Assault Tank - 1200 (ie CS Linebacker)

These are "typical" values only. Dependign on quality of manufacture and oher variables the actual stated out systems in the game would be slightly better or worse.

IE I list the Glitter Boy as a Super heavy PA with 240 MDC. But that's jsut the typical MDC for a PA of the same sort of mass as the Glitterboy. The Glitter Boy itself has advanced, super dense, laser resistant armour. So instead it might have about 360 MDC (almost as much as a medium tank!). It also has that gun that does 1D6x100, allowing it to take out a medium robot, in a single shot, on average.

But that's just the way I'd do it.

[Braden Campbell]

No, guys. What I meant was when a gravitonic assault rifle does 2D4x10 MDC, what kind of damage does a crew-served CG railgun do?

(The CG-AR15 does twice the damage of a SAMAS railgun, at one twenty-sixth the weight.)

Or does ultratech eventually eliminate the need for WP. Heavy?

[Jefffar]

Ultratech might eliminate or mkight amplify the need for WP heavy, depends on what it does to Armour.

[maasenstodt]

If I had the chance to rewrite rifts from the beginign, btu had to use the MDC system as it is, I'd do the following...

But that's just the way I'd do it.

Would that Kevin have tapped your conception of damage when putting RUE together.

:sigh:

[Braden Campbell]

Too many people wold have cried foul.

[Jefffar]

The game needs to have that sort of thing from the begining, not part way through.

When I ever write an RPG it will have that sort of thing happening for it.

[maasenstodt]

Too many people wold have cried foul.

You're likely correct, but there are plenty of people who are crying foul right now due to the game's incongruity. Making the change would involve a trade-off with regards to who is unhappy, but at least Rifts would be made a more coherent game.

I would have found it pretty shocking to actually see Kevin make such a change, but I think it would have helped the game's long term prospects.

[Gomen_Nagai]

aLL THE rail guns in Rifts warlords of Russia are firing at 1/4 firing rate. Rase the Rates of fire by 4 and the ammo capacities by 10 and you will get what 15 ft cyborg monsters would want to have ...

the warlords railguns are operating at such reduced rates to conserve ammo and to fight off weaker demons ...

[Jefffar]

Overall the Rifts world has really fallen down when it comes to heavy and crew served weapons having realistic stats and capabilities.

[KLM]

Hi there!

Better yet, if the NE-75 is the equivalent of the
.50 heavy sniper/antimatter rifles, where is the
"Staff of Brownings minute meteors" BMG?

Adios
KLM

[Display-Name-Alpha]

The only disagreement i have with the tech in any of the rifts stuff is that someone with enough time, can punch through a tank with a vibroknife.

that and a multiwarhead theronuclear weapon only has a 50ft blast radius... we have warheads NOW 300+years in the past from the rifts cities that can level a city. Why are thier nukes so frelling wimpy?

[KLM]

Hi there!

I think the nuclear warhead issue has been dicussed, but

1, The damage does not stop at the blast radius.
Or at least, it should not.

2, One of the reasons of abandoning tactical nukes
against mechanised forces, and the development of
sophisticated anti-tank warfare (AH-64 for example)
is the fact, that if you lob an average 5-10 kT nuke on
an attacking tank formation, it will take out maybe a
squadron (max 20 MBTs...).
And they are cheaper than the warhead.
(OK, tac nukes were abandoned also because they
are NUKEs, and of course in the above case, you will
have about a 100 or so MBT crews which will die in
radiation poisoning within months, but sadly in a
WWIII. enviroment this does not affect their
approximated lifespan).

3, Suspend reality, and technobabble. For balance issues
the missile damages are right - as long as they are compared
to each other, that is (ie. SRM vs. LRM, etc).

Adios
KLM

[GhostKnight]

NE-75 with 10 round bursts for 2d6x10 md, have a borg carry a heavy backpack with 1000 rounds (100 bursts).

I have the Silver Hawk gun on an NPC and list it as 195 lbs. The power pack is another 125 lbs and can only supply 1 gun per shot (no combining the laser and particle cannon on 1 shot).

Think about technology focused on making weapons lighter instead of expensive big items that few (borgs, supernatural, etc) can carry. It's a matter of economics on where the research goes.

[Braden Campbell]

The NE 75 heavy shoulder cannon cannot burst.

And as I have had time to think about this over the past few months, and have had to come up with some additional TGE weapons, I have come to the conclution that, in an ultra-tech setting, the damage of things does not have to increase all that much. rather the weapon payload and accuracy of things will go up.

[KLM]

The NE 75 heavy shoulder cannon cannot burst.

Right, just as a .50 rifle cannot do burst fire.

On the other hand, there are numerous heavy machine guns
in use... Some as infantry support weaps, some as vehicle
weapons.

Adios
KLM

[Jefffar]

KLM,

yes there are, and almsot everybody who does homebrewed rules that I know of has created an NE-400H, a heavy duty version of the NE-200 Plasma Cartridge Machinegun firing the same ehavy plasma cartridges as the NE-75H.

I've probably seen the same weapon and same designation about a dozen times from independant soruces.

[KLM]

Which leads to the silly stuff, that most mecha and warmachines
should be equipped with clustered infantry weapons.

Phase World setting somewhat breaks it, but even in DMB3:PW SB
the Fire Eater should twin NE-75's. Or quads. Or two clusters of four.

End rant.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Kikko, it is already ridicoulos, when two tanks begin to
blast each other, it takes way too long.

Adding some protection for big chunks of iron means they
will be impervious to each others guns.

Now, you can scale up their main guns... And here comes
instant death from a hit from an MBT's main gun.

Which is right, IMO. After all, that is why one invests into
a giant robot, not a dosen SAMSON plus an APC.

And yeah, do not mess with tanks - unless you are able to
lob about 50 pounds of destruction on them from at least
two miles.

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

That's why my gaming group uses the Armour Penetration rules as found here: http://www.geocities.com/finesey.geo/index2.htm

Trust me. PC's will dive for cover when combat robots start firing grenades at them when you use these...

I really can't recommend them enough.

[Syndicate]

in a universe filled with Naruni auto cannons, gravitonic railgun rifles, and HI lasers...where are the heavy weapons?

I mean, if your average, Terran, PS of 11 CAF Trooper can carry Naruni Shoulder cannon, capable of punching through a light APC...what do giant 'Borgs carry?

Specificly, I'm thinking of the Central Allaince, where there are soldier 'Borgs running around who stand about 15' tall. According to the borg rules in Rifts Russia, I can dish out more with a HI-80 than they can with a mega railgun.

Solutions?

Dimension book 2, 3, & 8...also see South America 2.

[KLM]

And then a big, green fellow thinks, that his
squad definitely needs a heavy weapon -
which is assigned to a three seljuk's team...



Adios
KLM

[KLM]

What I do alot is take weapons from other Rifts books and increase the stats on them, slap on a NE logo and hocus pocus, NE everything.

Yeah, extrapolating is OK.

But I guess everyone can (and must) do it. The problem is, that we,
the players after a short while usually feel the need for it. Palladium
does not.

Let's face it. There is the "munchkin" weapon in one of the South
Americas, the ATL-7. It is a one-shot, 9+ kg anti-tank laser rifle.
It has only one shots per melee, does 3d6*10+20... Now, a C-12
according to the RMB rules, with a full melee wild burst does
4d6*20 MD.

Enough said, I guess.

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

And of course, everyone has realized that since a gravitonic railgun is the same size as a modern assault rifle, it's no problem to change the clip into a 100-round belt feed, or 90-round snail drum. Right?

Failing that, use a ready-mag, and carry two clips at once.

[Daikuma]

you know, amazingly, there is no weight listed for that gun...

It has a built in Contragravity field.

This Gomen_Nagai moment brought to you by Dr. Doom v.3.2.5

Whoa! CG field to eliminate weapon weight? Time for that cannon that fires armor piercing toasters...and none of you can play with it!

-Daikuma

[Greyaxe]

And of course, everyone has realized that since a gravitonic railgun is the same size as a modern assault rifle, it's no problem to change the clip into a 100-round belt feed, or 90-round snail drum. Right?

Failing that, use a ready-mag, and carry two clips at once.

Does this apply to the jackhammer as well. I have a new character which uses on adn would like to increase the ammo capacity.