Dead Boy wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:Dead Boy wrote:there is no PS limitation on what makes for a "Normal Person" regardless of whether that person has a PS of 15, 30, or 45 for that matter. If you'd check out pg. 284 in RUE you'd even see that that those who possess a Physical Strength of 30 or more fall under the heading of "Ordinary Human Physical Strength", a term that is synominous with Normal Person.
Not in the contexts we're talking about.
Not in the context?
Dude, that's a "by the book" categorical descriptive listing for all characters who do not posses robtic or supernatural PS.
ALL! This speaks directly to the heart of the matter in that it addresses every character that doesn't fit in those other two strength listings as "Ordinary Humans". And ordinary human
is a normal person and therefore people with any PS from 3 to 100 in fact fall under the heading of a "Normal Person". Just becaue it doesn't fall under your nerf-happy ideals doesn't make it false or incorrect. This is a definition directly out of the book I'm going by here, as opposed to your opinion, weighted though it may be.
The context that we're talking about are the specific strength categories for lifting and carrying. There are two types for most standard characters:
Normal and Strong.
My interpretation leads to the most logical conclusion, because it jibes with the damage output and the existence of Titan Juicers (who, under your interpretation, would be weaker than an ordinary juicer).
You might want to rethink that one. Even
IF you were right about the x40 figure, you'd still be wrong here. Those with Robotic PS only get a x25 to their carry calculations, but they do far more damage than those with Juicer strength in hand to hand. And not just far, but vastly more at that. So no, in that light your interpretation is not a logical conclusion in the slightest because of that massive contradiction.
No matter how you slice it, the tables for robots and supernatural creatures inflicting mega-damage don't make any sense.
Me, in my mind I resolve this seemingly contradiction by making the distinctin in automotive terms. More specifically, the distinction between torque pounds and RPMs. An engine may have similar ratings in horse power, but sometimes that power is better put to slow and steady grunt power while in others it helps make the car go really, really fast. By compairison the Juicer's strength would be more akin to that of a big truck made to work in the super low gears, able to move things about, but not with the speed and fluidity of those with supernatural or robotic PS who can throw bullet-fast strikes, but lack the toruqe stregth of the Juicer to move things around.
Which would do absoultely nothing to explain why they could lift more than robots, which would be built more for torque than RPMs. Especially for non-combat robots.
Also there is another contradictory paradox in your reasoning: Dog Boys. All Dog Boys have the ability to lift. On pg. 146, RUE, it notes that "... the Dog Boy is twice that of the average human with it comes to ... lifting weight." (emphasis added).
The word you cut out is "enduance".
As in, "The physical endurance of the Dog Boys is twice that of the average human."
Not strength.
It then goes on to clairify that those with a PS of 16 or under get the x20 while those wiht a PS of 17+ get the x40.
So, if this is what they expressly meant with twice the strengh of a normal person, then how can you rationalize it to meaning the exact same thing for someone who has four times the strenth of a noral person?
THIS is actually the first piece of solid evidence you have brought into the argument!
Let's look at it.
First of all, RUE doesn't say that they can lift 2x that of a "Normal" character, it says "average". Not necessarily the same thing.
But the orignal Rifts book
does say "Normal" humans.
I'm assuming that RUE is likely clarifying the same rule, not changing it, so this establishes that references to "Normal" characters apparently does NOT mean the same as it does in the weight/carry section. Which means that Juicer logically use the same terminology and intent as the Dog Boys, meaning that they can lift/carry 4x the amount of an unaugmented character with the same strength, whether the unaugmented human is Normal or Strong.
Which means that a normal Juicer with a PS of 22 (the minimum) can carry 1740 lbs, and can lift up to 3480 lbs.
Meanwhile, a robot with a PS of 22 can only carry 550 lbs, and can only lift 1100 lbs.
And a Titan Juicer with a PS of 30 can carry 1500 lbs and can lift 3000 lbs.
Unless I'm missing something, it looks like you're right: The rules make no sense.
Make it stop..... 
