Anyone tried these rule changes?

[Tigermuppetcut]

Everyone gets 2 actions per melee, regardless of training. These are the only actions that can be used for movement / non-combat actions.

Additional actions (attacks) granted by hand to hand skills are only used for attacking a target that you can engage without significant movement or dodging. Psychics and mages would need a separate chart for when they gain new spell or psy attacks.

Also the extra attack from boxing allows one extra attack but only a punch, should stop everyone in the world from trying to take boxing to increase magic , psychic attacks, natural energy blasts, # shots from guns etc. etc.

[shadrak]

where are these rules from?

[Guest]

Actually these are a modification of the existing rules. It's obvious that Tiggermuppetcut has taken the idea of No Hand to Hand's "two non-combat actions" (used to justify the TAFL) and extended it to those with Hand to Hand skills. While the idea itself makes quite a bit of sense, I would take it a bit farther myself and actually give a different number of initial attacks to the Hand to Hand combat skills to further differentiate their ability (i.e. 1 for No HTH, 2 for Basic, 3 for Expert, possibly 3 or 4 for Martial Arts, 3 then 2 for Assassin, 4 for Commando, etc) IN ADDITION TO the two non-combat actions that every character would receive.

[Guest]

Actually these are a modification of the existing rules. It's obvious that Tiggermuppetcut has taken the idea of No Hand to Hand's "two non-combat actions" (used to justify the TAFL) and extended it to those with Hand to Hand skills. While the idea itself makes quite a bit of sense, I would take it a bit farther myself and actually give a different number of initial attacks to the Hand to Hand combat skills to further differentiate their ability (i.e. 1 for No HTH, 2 for Basic, 3 for Expert, possibly 3 or 4 for Martial Arts, 3 then 2 for Assassin, 4 for Commando, etc) IN ADDITION TO the two non-combat actions that every character would receive.

That makes a bit of sense but why change them to begin with.

*Shrug* Some people are more comfortable playing that way. I'm sort of in between myself, I don't think TAFL is a worth while addition to the game because it makes the gap between those who have a HTH skill and those who don't too wide (1 attack vs 3 or 4 attacks at first level), though I find 4 attacks a much more realistic gauge of how many times someone could do something in 15 seconds.

Of course, I also take into account those few combat actions which don't spend an attack, most notably (and common), automatic parry, which tells us that they're doing more than just attacking in combat, making combat that much more believable. It should also be noted that Palladium's combat setup is sorta wierd in how it's done, everyone's quite familiar with how combat is run on initiative sequence, but it's heavily implied in the books (in the XP tables use of rewards, several combat descriptions on how certain combat moves work, etc) that all the attacks of one "phase" or part of the melee round occur pretty much simultaneously (which generates it's own problem with regards to terminolgy usage of "simultaneous"). In addition, the combat system is setup so that the combatants are moving around in addition to just delivering their attacks (N&S's description of Combat Range fully illustrates what I'm talking about), though not running, using a fancy move to change combat distance, etc.

Palladium's combat system is interesting in that it tries to handle the real feel of combat, while at the same time being basic and simple in execution (yes I know there's hundreds of combat moves and other options out there, but they're all handled under the basic five-step combat system used for ALL of Palladium's combat).

[Dead Boy]

Everyone gets 2 actions per melee, regardless of training. These are the only actions that can be used for movement / non-combat actions.

Additional actions (attacks) granted by hand to hand skills are only used for attacking a target that you can engage without significant movement or dodging. Psychics and mages would need a separate chart for when they gain new spell or psy attacks.

Also the extra attack from boxing allows one extra attack but only a punch, should stop everyone in the world from trying to take boxing to increase magic , psychic attacks, natural energy blasts, # shots from guns etc. etc.

While I can see that a possible solution to resolve the movement problem inherent to the game, I myself think it's a wee bit harsh. And what do you do about characters who are in constant motion, like one flying by in a SAMAS for instance? Is he effectively hanging in mid air during a lot of those attacks? That never did seem right to me.

Me, I personally used an adaptation of the phased action system lifted from the Hero System where the round is broken into 15 segments (each a second in length), where characters are allowed to move on any given segment, and can attack on their predetermined action phases. Of course if they moved on any segment between their action phases, that attack maybe counted as Wild. So far it's worked well and I've gotten no complaints from the people I've shared it with. In fact I even put together a custom made 30-segment (half a second each) chart for someone for those times when 15 attacks per melee round just aren't enough for some characters, (though I myself have never had a need to use that one).

[Tigermuppetcut]

It's trying to get a better handle on things like movement and fighting from a vehicle. Also the way taking martial arts and boxing makes you a faster spell slinger, or lets you do anything faster. Training to fight should only make fighting faster, in fact I'd rather see number of attacks broken down by hand to hand, magic, psychic and ranged weapon proficiency (by that last one I mean adopting an archery and targetting approach to giving weapon users attacks with the weapons they are proficient with as they go up levels.

It really irks me the way that how much you can do in a melee round is based on your hand to hand skill regardless of what you are doing.

But yeah other points raised here are good the SAMAS example. I guess you declare movement on one of your 2 actions and say yuo are firing as you go, making up to half of your attacks as you do so at any point you like during the movement.

when people fire back they would be firing at a SAMAS moving as fast as you did in your last round.

I used to run a phased system, chaning melees to 20 seconds and having a phase per second people move each phase but only attack on staggered phases (20 divided by # of attacks) but it was way too much hassle. Fights need to be snappier and more fun for me than that.

[Tigermuppetcut]

That's what I mean all character should get 2 actions (or maybe 4 if doing only 2 non combat actions per melee seems too few) regardless of who they are. Nothing should break this rule, running would just give character more speed making them able to move faster per move action.

[runebeo]

The old rules were fine and the new ones are mostly ignored by my group.

[shadrak]

True... but how many doors can you open