Nice Starships

[Esckey]

A lot of nice looking ships

[Aramanthus]

Very nice! I see a lot of potential there.

[Rahmota]

Hey I liked the Babylon 5 ships as they looked realistic. Something I believe humanity could build with the technology of a few years from now (few being a relative term.) Not to say that the curvy swoopy ships dont look cool either. Its just that space doesnt require the same shapes atmospherics do. Cool is in the eye of the beholder. And I'll agree the one dark shuttle is really sweet too.

Thats why as long as your engines can handle it you could have everything from a giant cube to a slim dagger.

[MADMANMIKE]

..Boxy is realistic. There's no real reason to have phalanges and curves on a space vessel unless it's going into an atmosphere.

-Mike >8]

[Greyaxe]

A box is the most efficent, cheapest and easiest spacecraft to build. I expect flying coffins to be very popular in the Phase World setting.

[Aramanthus]

Yeah, but also you can include the squash cylinder in that list too. Remember what the Warshield looks like. A squashed cylinder of a sort, with rounded ends.

[Aramanthus]

Yes, it is. Nut to some owners it might be more appealing than a box. That is all I wanted to point out was a different shape.

[MADMANMIKE]

..darkmax, for someone with a Buhda inspired avatar you have some odd views on money and the importance of intanigbles like looks.

..I disagree that in a space fairing civilization people are going to be as stupid as the average human is when buying a car. Buying for looks instead of functionality is a cavalier luxury that is unlikely to translate to space, where the vehicle is not only your vehicle but your home and the only thing keeping you alive in the vast darkness of space...

..People laughing behind your back? Why in the world would anyone make a decision involving on average two years full salary based on the irrational opinions of strangers?

-Mike >8]

[MADMANMIKE]

No matter how far into the future it is, people, irregardless of who, will continue to chase after beautiful things. It is in our very nature.

I agree. Maybe initially people will by the functional space craft, but eventually they are going to want a Porsche of the Stars. People don't want to move backwards. I mean how many people are bummed that they are scrapping the Shuttle Fleet. I mean now we are going back to capsules? Okay so it's cheaper, but in the age where kids have grown up thinking they will probably own an X-Wing Fighter or be able to take a cruise on a Galaxy Class Starship. Capsules are not going to inspire the imagination. We might as well all drink Tang and ask the Chinese on what Mars is like.

..C'mon, look at spaceship one; sometimes a step back is really two steps forward.

-Mike >8]

[MADMANMIKE]

Mike, don't get too personal on my commends. It's just an observation I have made all these years in the business market, studying the consumers' behaviors.

..Oh, don't worry about that. I understand your logic, I'm just pointing out that getting to a spacefairing level of tech will require a paradigm shift in the way the average person thinks, and that would preclude continuing down the same self-destructive narcisistic path of consumerism.

..I know marketing quite well, but I'm not particularly interested in marketing these ships to the average American, circa 2006; people in that market are likely to fall for the lame advertising campaign that Hummer has just come up with..

-Mike >8]

[MADMANMIKE]

Well, I can see your point. But I also see stylistic starship in Star Trek, the original series. What's up with this? Well, remember that Star Trek used to be an utopian society with no need for currencies (this all changed in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine).

Now where am I going with this...... Oh! They have no need to make their starships streamlined or stylistic, since most of them don't have atmostpheric capabilities, but they did anyway.

However, I also see the thing with Star Wars where starfighters and capital ships are mostly very scantily armored. They simply have little or no resources to fix more armor.

..Star Trek was a 1960's interpretation of the future; it had to be flashy to appeal to contemporary consumerists.

..Star Wars is basically in the same boat, although episodes 4 to 6 were supposed to represent a more industrial culture while 1-3 were that of a prosperous civilization in decline. The fancy ships of the first three represented what you're talking about, form over function, but they went away from that in the later 3.

-Mike

[MADMANMIKE]

Yes saucer plus rockets with forks to support the "rockets" up. And you have an additional plate to be used for a deflector dish.


And Mike, that's what I meant. Star Wars later civilization has less resources to spare. Although the reduced armor would also mean the expendability of the pilots, whom should be their most valuable resource of all.....

But everyone has some view of what the future is.

..Well, there's my point as well. I'm not interested in sci-fantasy settings where everyone is rich, so I don't make fancy-schmancy ship designs. I want something a bit more realistic, which is more expensive and therefore less likely to have moronic frills.

..The looks of a space ship are moronic because 90% of the time whenever someone is looking at it they're looking at it from the inside or on a display as a dot coming or going.

-Mike >8]

[Nightmaster]

Well that is my 2 cents on this matter.

In a spacefaring civilization the design of ships will be based on some important facts.

The first will be if the ship will be atmosphere capable or not. If she is then the ship would have a streamlined design to allow for it to be usable in a planet atmosphere. Otherwise the ship will have a boxed design. That dont mean however that this boxed design will be ugly. That will depend on the engineer designing the ship.

The second important fact will be if the civilization have anti-grav technology. If anti-grav tech is available then the majority of the ships would be capable of enter a planet atmosphere even it it is a flying coffin. Ships in that civilization will have lots of diferent designs, but most of then will be based on geometric forms for pratical reasons. Examples of that are in the Star Wars movies (I dont mean the new trilogy) where ships have a vague aerodinamic design (except the Tie ships).

Also the quantity of ships in that civilization would be important to determine the overall designs of the ships been producted.

Most of the ships in a spacefaring civilization, more or less 65%, will be small to medium class ships. Those ships would be intended to fill the role of trucks and family cars.

Most of the small class ships will be expected to enter atmosphere so they would have a streamlined shape to allow for better handle. Most of the ships being owned by civilians would be of this class.

Most of the medium class ships are not expected to enter an atmosphere so they sheldon have a streamlined design. Those would be the blood of the trading routes in that civilization.

The remained ships (35%) will be of large class size and would be intended to fill the role of cargo haulers and super haulers. They equivalent today are the ships that carry petroleum and grain all over the world. Those type of ships would never be intended to enter atmosphere and most probably will have a boxed design due to the fatc that this for a cargo hauler will be the most pratical and effective design.

That is my understanding of this matter. I gathered that much information because I was been a GM of Star Wars for 4 years in a campaign around free traders and smugglers.

[Nightmaster]

Yes saucer plus rockets with forks to support the "rockets" up. And you have an additional plate to be used for a deflector dish.


And Mike, that's what I meant. Star Wars later civilization has less resources to spare. Although the reduced armor would also mean the expendability of the pilots, whom should be their most valuable resource of all.....

But everyone has some view of what the future is.

Not less resources Max.

The design of most ships in the Civil War era are more pratical than stylistic. They have the resources for fancy ships and the like, but in a war you sheldon do so.

I know that for sure because I runned a Star Wars Campaign for 4 years.

Believe me they have the resources.

[Nightmaster]

Kind of like in Firefly/Serenity? Living on the edge of space, making due with what you can? Some people can afford the porsches and Rolls and others have the beat up 1970 dodge trucks and pintos.

The Millenium Falcon and Serenity might have been beauties in their first day out of the ship yard, but their ducttaped fixes and clever upgrades make them look like rust buckets.

Although, Han liked to keep the Falcon looking a bit rough because he could use it as camoflage.

Cool and realist ideas about ship building. Sweet!

Sorry I never have see that series.

By the way what you mean in your comparission between the Falcon and the Serenity? I really dindt understood you...

[Nightmaster]

Ok.

So you liked my ideas on shipbuilding? They are not my ideas dude they are the basic principle behind design of naval ships today but extrapolated for a spacefaring culture.

I just adapted the doctrines behind naval construction to space construction and put in some logic.

[Nightmaster]

Well, you run your world like the old star wars movie setting. It gives you that frontier feel to it. But that is not my cuppa.

After reading much of the information in PW, I tend to think PW setting as something more like B5 space civilizations. And indeed they are very similar and one can find many parallels between the 2.

And while some of you guys say that being boxed shaped has little effect on a ship's maneuvreability in space, I do think there is. Although space appear to be frictionless, it is in fact not true. It has been suggested to have micro- friction. This micro-friction will not be evident until one starts to go FTL.

But after all these blabbering, I still say. We are or have been GMs, we all have our ideas.


BTW, in Singapore, no cars running on the road is older than 10 years. There's little or no such thing as private road in Singapore. We also boast the highest priced cars in the world.

Well I runned that campaign before the new trilogy movies. After seeing then I will still run my SW games based on the old trilogy. Makes much more sense.

Micro-friction... not worth the care since only when a ship begins to reach lightspeed it would become a issue. Also the majority of maneuvers, battles and even races between ships would occurr outside FTL so the ships dont need to be streamlined any bit if they are intended to be used only in the void. Also the FTL systems that ships would have will for sure protect it from that "micro-friction" so again not worth to worry about.

[Nightmaster]

Well, like I say whatever the setting you prefer. I believe that galactic commercialism will result in more beautiful things becoming cheaper to appeal to the mass markets.

Now now... what you are saying is like that in today world everyone can buy a year car and we know that this is not true.

In a galactic civilization ships will be much more expensive than a car if we think in proportion. Like with cars, not everyone will have money to buy one. The average joe will move between planets in the civilization using mass transports like in today world. Things will not chance in the future they will only change in appearance.

Also the beautiful ships and designs you refer to are something that only the rich will buy. The average custumer will look for functionability, ease of control, effective range and so on. He would buy a ship based on the actual performance of the ship on a overall and not by its look since like Mike said above the ship is just more than a car. You cant compare the two.

Good looks are good for a luxury yatch and aerodinamics is only good in an atmosphere. This will hold true even more if the civilization have anti-grav technology.

[Dorlar]

Firefly by the way is an excellent series that was canceled on Sci Fi. I caught it after it was canceled and then a movie called Serenity was made after it. It tied up the story.

FYI, Firefly was Orginally Aired on Fox, and was canceled by Fox.
Fox only played 13 episodes.

Sci Fi played the series episodes from start to end.
Nobody picked up Firefly after it was canceled, it didnt become a cult classic till it was released on DVD. More sales in Dvds than people saw the movie serenity in the theater.

Theirs talks about another Serenity movie, direct to dvd. But the Creater Joss Whedon, has gotten over the possibility of return to a TV show, even tho Buffy was successful for 7years and Angel for 5.

[Nightmaster]

Now now... what you are saying is like that in today world everyone can buy a year car and we know that this is not true.

In a galactic civilization ships will be much more expensive than a car if we think in proportion. Like with cars, not everyone will have money to buy one. The average joe will move between planets in the civilization using mass transports like in today world. Things will not chance in the future they will only change in appearance.

Also the beautiful ships and designs you refer to are something that only the rich will buy. The average custumer will look for functionability, ease of control, effective range and so on. He would buy a ship based on the actual performance of the ship on a overall and not by its look since like Mike said above the ship is just more than a car. You cant compare the two.

Good looks are good for a luxury yatch and aerodinamics is only good in an atmosphere. This will hold true even more if the civilization have anti-grav technology.

Sorry! But I am only using the perspective of what I see in my country. Although we boasts the highest priced cars in the world, there is one car owner to every 3 person. And we can only own our cars for ten years, that's it. You'll need to pay the much-higher road taxes after that or get a new car, or not.

Well I dont know where you live but it appear to me that you guys are forced to buy cars every 10 years or lose the licence for then or worse...

But I must admit that cars are not a good way to make comparitions when talking about spaceships. The better correspondence is with today boats.

You must see that all boats and ships outside the cargo class use a very similar shape and design. There is little difference between then when the matter is design.

Materials, details, equipment, engines, fuel capacity and so on are the key factors analysed by individuals when buying a ship today. The same correlation will be used in a spacefaring civilization when dealing with spaceships.

[Nightmaster]

Boats. The reason why I keep saying about design is precisely this. Boats/yachts have become somewhat standardized over the years because it is the most desirable design. Only the super-rich can afford something that looks ultra-tech, ultra-smooth.

Not desisable. The word you are seeking is "effective"

If you are questioning my thoughts right now, ask yourself this, if most fo the spaceships should be boxy, why shouldn't most boats/yachts be? After all, a tugboat is spacious and very sturdy, not to mention extremely reliable and not very prone to failure.

Again you are forgeting the details. In naval ships the design is much more important. The tugboats could be very sturdy and spacious but in the open sea they will sink very fast like a rock in the first time it fights off rough sea. This is called seaworth.

Remember the tragedy that occurred in the middle east when a ship carring people that was making the pilgrimage to Mecca, and were not really maked for open sea travels, sinked during a small storm killing thousands. It occured some months ago in this very year.

The same correlation cannot be made for spaceships in an starfaring civilization. The design of the ship will only matter if the ships is intended to enter atmosphere and again only if the civilization dont have anty-grav technology. Outside of that there is no need for it.

Comercially talking, the desire of the custumer could change a bit the overall designs of ships but like you have already said, only the very rich would afford the very beautifull designed ships.

Before you take in acount the design of the ship, you must see if the civilization does have antigrav tech. That is the principle behind designs of spaceships that is already in place today. If by some genius the anti-grav technology is discolvered the ships going to space today would no more be designed with aerodinamics because there will be no need for it anymore.