HI equivalent to the ATL-7?

[GhostKnight]

What would be a 3G anti-material rifle equivalent to the ATL7 of South America, or present day 50 cal or 25mm Barrett rifles?

I'd assume that it would have a limited rate of fire (3/r? 2/r? 1/r?) and plug into the standard CAF backpack e-clip. Maybe stick to the current equivalent of 1 shot/e-clip (10 shots/backpack e-clip).

Range (4k ft? 6k ft? 8k ft?)? Damage? Price?

The HI-80 does 2d4x10+10 md per burst with 10 bursts/clip at 2k ft for 40k credits. That's an average of 170% damage of the Wilks 457. Would a HI-ATL7 also do 170% damage compared to an ATL7 for a total of 5d6x10+30 or 6d6x10 md?

[Jefffar]

Well the NE-75H is basically an anti-materiel rifle akin to a modern .50 Barrett rifle (which it mistakenly refers to as Berretta in the definition.

[GhostKnight]

Well the NE-75H is basically an anti-materiel rifle akin to a modern .50 Barrett rifle (which it mistakenly refers to as Berretta in the definition.

I'd rate the NE-75H equivalent to a 338, not a 50 cal. I'm looking for the equivalent to a 50 cal or a 25mm. Maybe triple or quad barrels doing 2d4x10 md each at 6k feet...

[Jefffar]

Well it does 2D4x10 per blast, even if it isn't capable of multipel shots per melee action. That puts it well beyond the pulse setting on most rifles.

[Braden Campbell]

For ballance, you could keep the damage and range the same, but include a knock-down factor similar to the Big Bore series (Rifts: New West)...


and just say that getting hit with a clip full of energy sends a Kreeghor flying, even if he isn't dead. he'll still losse the initiative and one attack...


OR, go the old Palladium Fantasy route, and call it a "giant weapon". Then it gets an extra D6 to damage... or in this case, an extra D6x10.

[Esckey]

I would make it a 4D6X10 weapon with an increased range to 4K, but same e-clip penalty.

[GhostKnight]

Recently a rifts traveling wizard dropped off an interesting item to the small laser corporation NovaLight. It was a heavy laser rifle more powerful than anything known in 3G. The scratched outer casing read "ATL-7".

NovaLight produces the HI-800 sniper laser used by the marines in the United Worlds of Warlock and have been trying to create a competitor to the Naruni NE-75H "Shoulder Cannon". Though enamored with the ATL-7, the small company's research budget could not come up with a direct HI version.

NovaLight has started producing the standard ATL-7 for sale to the UWW Marine corp (150k 3G credits or 1.5m rifts credits). They have also produced a distinct laser system that uses off the shelf HI components combined into a streamlined support configuration that they discovered in the ATL-7. The end result is a 4 barrel bit of nastiness.

HI-840 Anti Material Laser: A heavy HI-laser that uses a streamlined quad core from the HI-800. A sophisticated computer system keeps all 4 barrels aligned and tied into the targeting system (targeting laser, 1x-60x magnification, passive and active systems, computer = total of +4 to hit). A single shot (all 4 lasers) takes 1 3G e-clip. It can be tied into a 5 lb backpack clip for 10 shots, or a large power source for unlimited shots.
Primary Purpose: Anti-Material
Secondary Purpose: Sniping
Mega-Damage: Each lens does 2d4x10 md, so a full shot does 8d4x10 md (or 5d6x10+20 md, or 1d320 for a wide range of damage).
Rate of Fire: Each shot takes 2 actions. Max of 4/round. After firing 20 shots it must cool down for 5 minutes.
Maximum Effective Range: 6k ft.
Payload: 1 shot/e-clip, 10 shots/e-pack, unlimited if nuclear. Marines are issued 2 e-packs (20 shots total) each of which recharge 1 shot per 10 minutes from their power armor.
Weight: 38 lb
Cost: 300k (3m in rifts credits). Currently restricted to the UWW Marines.

[Braden Campbell]

You guys do realize that the ATL-7 only inflicts twice the damage, per shot, of a HI-80, right?

So I can shoot you with two bursts from a HI-80, and inflict the same amount of (potential) damage as you can with one shot from the ATL-7... and while you change a clip for three attacks, I can still wail on you because I have 24 shots left in my gun!

I can't see the need to create a bigger version of the ATL-7, when the current heavy HI-laser rifle is just as good if not better.

And, anything doing more than 4D6x10 in a man-portable weapon is just... well, I won't say retarded because I got in trouble the last time I did that... but it's waaay unbalancing, how's that?

If you want to improve the HI-80, duct tape two of them together, or mount a grenade launcher on the bottom.

[GhostKnight]

The HI-80 has 3 disadvantages as a sniper weapon:
1. Bursts lose some accuracy.
2. Range (2k ft).
3. Surprise. You only get that on the first shot.

I tried to build in enough negatives to the HI-840 to balance it out but still be in relation to the ATL-7 and the difference in tech level.

Why do you think that many sniper weapons today are bolt action and moderately large caliber?

[GhostKnight]

The Multi-Rifle, carried by the Silverhawk in DB2, may be a canon weapon to suit your needs.

HI-Laser: 2d4*10, 10000 ft range
Particle Beam Cannon: 3d6*10, 2000 ft range
Grenade Launcher: Per Grenade, 1000 ft range
HI-Laser and Particle Beam can be fired as one for 4d6*10+20 MD.

Not exactly what your looking for, I know, but could serve the same purpose.

I've never seen anyone point out how heavy the silver hawk gun would be. I'm guessing at least a hundred or two pounds. To heavy for someone to lug around.

[RockJock]

One of the weaknesses of PB's system is that weapon classes break down.
We need a better seperation of machine gun style support weapons and the standard rifle.

Railguns, or in PW, Gravity guns don't have any advantage over a laser version of the machine gun, or something like the Vulcan cannon. Give a rail gun an AP, or knock down bonus of some kind. Even make the full melee spray useful for rail guns, gravity guns, regular machine guns, even energy machine guns like the Vulcan or the laser version made by Wilk's.

Sniper type weapons have the same issue. The best sniper weapon in Rifts or even PW is a missile launcher. There are only a handful of weapons that can give a reasonable chance of one shot, one kill on a infantry soldier in EBA. Especially when you one single shot instead of burst, and extended range.

With the high end bad guys in PW, like the Kreegor, the need for a sniper type weapons are great. Somebody would come up with one. Energy, G-Gun, Phase Rifle, something.

The major problem with a MDC over SDC/AR system is it makes special cases, like a sniper weapon difficult. You have things like the Big Bore which have a knock down, but a Boom Gun doesn't. That makes no sense.

The laser rifle from South America, and the Naruni big nasty from the PW SB have the right idea. Big damage, good range, but limited shots, rate of fire, and heavy weight which keep it from being a common weapon. For an HI version I would go with the same ration as the Wilk's rifle compared to the ATL7 and bring it in line with the standard HI laser.

[RockJock]

Anti-material is a term used for huge caliber rifles. They are designed to take out things like radar dishes, missile launchers, light military vehicles, aircraft on the ground and so forth. Think of a sniper rifle, but instead of the bullet being in the range of a big deer rifle it is in a heavy machine gun caliber. Most are .50 cal, the same exact bullet used by the .50 cal M2 havy machine gun, but can be 20 or 25mm and shoot basically a cannon round. They also have a very, very long range.

It gives spec-ops teams, or even a two man spotter/sniper team a really long reach and punch. If you are attacking a truck convoy it is a nice thing to be able to pop a round through the engine block with pinpoint accuracy from half a mile away and not leave the tell tale signs of a rocket shot.

On another note, is it just me, or do some of the weapons in Naruni Wave 2 make absolutely no sense to use? Look at the NE-99. It has a good range and punch. On the other hand, it is expensive at 350,000, can't hit much more then the broad side of a barn, and doesn't have a great payload. It is essentially a long ranged rifle that can fire with the really old full melee burst rules. 1d6x10 gives you no bonus to hit and 30 shots per reload at the same range as the JU-12, or the TX-41/42(the one made for light bots). Plus it weighs 100lbs and takes a full 15 seconds to reload. The only advantage is it does let you fire bursts. Naruni should be able to come up with something better then that. Even the spray doesn't do much except keep their heads down. It takes a clips worth of sprays to take down medium EBA. The Wilk's version in Mercs, or even the WI projectile MG does the job better.

[RockJock]

Pretty much. The difference is it takes out moderately hard targets instead of just flesh.

[GhostKnight]

An anti-material rifle takes out the side of an APC... and through 4 infantry in armor... and then the engine block... and keeps on going.

Any other discussion on the HI-ATL7?

[Braden Campbell]

Just this...

Why bother?

Why not just use a rapid-fire rocket launcher like the LAWS-3 of the New Navy (Game Master's Guide, pg. 156)? The rifle is +2 to strike, plus my WP Heavy bonuses, and a three round volley from that thing can do 3D6x10 to a radius of 40'. With its payload, I can do that twice!

Firing a burst takes one action... so I can empty the LAWS-3 in two attacks, reload, and fire it dry again in 15 seconds if I am a first-level character who took boxing. That's as much as 12D6x10 (720 MDC) to 40' in one melee.

It only costs 45,000 credits, plus replacement ammo. Your super HI-rifle costs 300,000 cr.... which means I can buy 142 replacement clips (six rounds in each clip) for the same amount of money.

In short, I think this is a bad investment for the UWW.

[Aramanthus]

It does make sense what Braden is saying!

[GhostKnight]

1. Collateral damage.
2. You're exposed after the first shot.
3. I've fired more than 142 times in games. Energy weapons are cost effective.

[Braden Campbell]

1. Collateral damage.

I thought the goal was anti-material. A LAWS-3 will take out the side of most APCs... and the blast radius will kill most people inside by burning off their limbs.

2. You're exposed after the first shot.

A 320 MDC-inflicting laser blast is going to light up the countryside like a lighthouse... if not in the visual spectrum, then definitely in the infrared. Easily observable by any Joe Blow with a multioptics helmet or cheap set of infrared binocs.

[RockJock]

Bradan is right. The missle launcher works great as a support weapon, and gives you a blast radius to go with it. There are times where you don't want the blast radius, so I still think the laser weapon is a viable alternative.

[GhostKnight]

A 320 MDC-inflicting laser blast is going to light up the countryside like a lighthouse... if not in the visual spectrum, then definitely in the infrared. Easily observable by any Joe Blow with a multioptics helmet or cheap set of infrared binocs.

Only if he's already looking that way and has instant replay.

I played OP4 against squads and platoons for 2 years at Fort Lewis with either an M60 or 7mm. 1-3 quick shots then move. Repeat. You'd be surprised at how many infantry and vehicles can be disabled or at least severely slowed down by a good sniper.

[Braden Campbell]

Cool.

I guess the only thing really putting me off if the big damage number roll for your new gun... but that is a fault in the Palladium system (where nothing can be armor piercing). One simply MUST dish out a stupid ammount of damage just to headshot a guy in combat armor...

[GhostKnight]

I tried to balance that out by the relatively heavy weight, high price, and high power consumption. It's also built off of official parts (UWW Marine sniper laser cores).

Is 6k feet good for range? Should it be 8k? 10k?

[Braden Campbell]

6000 at most.

[Nightmaster]

Cool.

I guess the only thing really putting me off if the big damage number roll for your new gun... but that is a fault in the Palladium system (where nothing can be armor piercing). One simply MUST dish out a stupid ammount of damage just to headshot a guy in combat armor...

That is a thing that can easy resolved by adding special effects to some weapon types and combat armor. In the same way like the Big Bore guns.

Doing that would not be perfect but would help correct that overall fault of the Palladium system.

Example. Creating a variant of the AR rules for MDC combat.

The AR will be used as normal, but instead of on a sucesful attack over the AR, the soldier will not receive the damage as MDC but as SDC. To make MDC combat more deadly, you can make the ratio of damage be somewhat at 2:1 (2 SDC for every MDC) that the soldier will receive.

I think that this could help making snipers really deadly without the need to create weapons with damages more high than 6D6.

Other solutions could be used as well to make other types of weapons more effective without higher damages, like in the situation of Armor Piercing missiles.

[LostOne]

I've seen homebrew stuff for armor-piercing rounds. Specifically Tsunami Arms ammunition (T490 12.5mm caseless Memory Expanders are the most impressive). The stuff is powerful and is tailor made to kill CS troops. But if you read the GM section, it explains why. I used to play with the guy, playtested the stuff. It's powerful, and we loathed him when he sprung the GM surprise on us.

[LostOne]

Yes, it is. Did you read the GM section?

It could actually be fit in to the siege on tolkeen fairly well and help explain why Tolkeen lost.

[Esckey]

6000 feet is still abit much, thats a mile plus 200 metres.Don't want people to rule out the use of a Mini-Missile

As for AP, you could always tak on a damage modifier like what was done with Railguns and AP missles in RUE. Or make your own classification of weapons and armour with the appropriate damage modifiers.

[RockJock]

Dark Max, if you go the route of house ruling AP rules for rail guns, and shaped charges sure. As PB has the rules, not really. The best is a critical hit for AP, and that is about it. If you want to kill a vehicle with 400mdc you need a rocket, or laser, or rail gun that does 400mdc damage, that's it.

[Nightmaster]

Dark Max, if you go the route of house ruling AP rules for rail guns, and shaped charges sure. As PB has the rules, not really. The best is a critical hit for AP, and that is about it. If you want to kill a vehicle with 400mdc you need a rocket, or laser, or rail gun that does 400mdc damage, that's it.

But that dont really makes sense.

Armor Piercing weapons are mean to bypass armor plating and deliver its punch to the internal parts of the target, either disabling it or if lucky destroing it (the later is more difficult).

Palladium rules for AP dont really cover that area and are best suited for non-vehicle combat.

[RockJock]

I agree Nightmaster. In the current PB rules there is no penetration factor. As the rules sit you have to blow the total armor, not pierce it.

There are other quirks like the fact that hitting a man sized target and a transport aircraft are the same difficulty.

The easiest way to come up with an anti-armor weapon is to give it enough damage potential to take said armor out. Another option is coming up with some form of penetration/AP damage. You can also build a weapon with a low critical hit number, and I'm sure there are other alternatives.

If you want an anti-armor weapon in your game it seems to me at least, going with say a 240 mdc one shot weapon is the easy way to go. The damage rating is in scale with similar weapons out there. Making it a laser cannon is more of a fluff issue then anything else. There are tons of weapons that can do more damage in the 3 or 4 attacks it takes to fire and reload, the anti-material weapon just combines them into one all or nothing shot. Even at 320 mdc we are talking 4 shots with a HI rifle.

I would say go 4d6x10+40 damage, 1 shot per e-clip, 6,000ft range. Can't fire more often then once, or possibly twice a melee, and maybe a limit of 4 a minute or it will overheat. Make it at least as heavy as the original ATL-7 or the Naruni Shoulder Cannon at the minimum. It should be geared toward very specific jobs, and a liability if used outside it's design envelop.

[LostOne]

Dark Max, if you go the route of house ruling AP rules for rail guns, and shaped charges sure. As PB has the rules, not really. The best is a critical hit for AP, and that is about it. If you want to kill a vehicle with 400mdc you need a rocket, or laser, or rail gun that does 400mdc damage, that's it.

So don't kill it. Disable it. Take out it's mode of movement (axles/tires/rotors/jet engines/motor/leg-joints/etc). Then disable the mobile gun placements like turrets. Approach it from a direction it can't fire on you (behind the power armor, or a side of the tank that it can't attack once the turret is disabled, probably behind). Call for surrender, if they don't, blow the hatch and drop a few fusion blocks in. Fire in the hole.

[Nightmaster]

I agree Nightmaster. In the current PB rules there is no penetration factor. As the rules sit you have to blow the total armor, not pierce it.

There are other quirks like the fact that hitting a man sized target and a transport aircraft are the same difficulty.

The easiest way to come up with an anti-armor weapon is to give it enough damage potential to take said armor out. Another option is coming up with some form of penetration/AP damage. You can also build a weapon with a low critical hit number, and I'm sure there are other alternatives.

If you want an anti-armor weapon in your game it seems to me at least, going with say a 240 mdc one shot weapon is the easy way to go. The damage rating is in scale with similar weapons out there. Making it a laser cannon is more of a fluff issue then anything else. There are tons of weapons that can do more damage in the 3 or 4 attacks it takes to fire and reload, the anti-material weapon just combines them into one all or nothing shot. Even at 320 mdc we are talking 4 shots with a HI rifle.

I would say go 4d6x10+40 damage, 1 shot per e-clip, 6,000ft range. Can't fire more often then once, or possibly twice a melee, and maybe a limit of 4 a minute or it will overheat. Make it at least as heavy as the original ATL-7 or the Naruni Shoulder Cannon at the minimum. It should be geared toward very specific jobs, and a liability if used outside it's design envelop.

Or make the AP weapons that exist in the Palladium books use the damage tables presented in the Rifts GMG everytime they hit a target. You would need to add or modify the current tables however because they only really cover robot vehicles.

Also, some "scale" must be set to make some difference between human size weapons and vehicle weapons. Not a matter of up the damage of those weapons, but a specific rule that will prevent a human soldier in EBA from placing himself in the tip of a canon because the damage would not kill him.

I have once make a set of rules for that kind of thing. Posted it here in the boards. It deals with armor penetration for body armors, scale and other few things. It prevented my players from acting like Superman in my campaigns.

[Jefffar]

Niether of Palladium's systems (AR or MDC) accurately reflect the realities of vehicle armour and armour penetration.

Then again, this is a very difficult thing to duplicte.


I have done a variety of homebrew fixes on this stuff. One of them is that I have put in an intermediate step between MDC and SDC and reduced the personal scale MDC weapons and armour to this intermediate step. The other I use is a damage soak system. The Intermediate system is easier to convert from the existing while the damage soak system becomes more plausible, once you've done the extensive conversion work.

[Jefffar]

This is far too realistic for game mechanics. I thought a game system is to make things plausible where it is impossible, not real?

Yeah, a good game system balances playability and plausibility.

A lot of us think that Palladium needs a few tweaks to get more plausibility - though that opinion, as well as agreement on what tweaks are necissary are far from universal.

[Nightmaster]

Niether of Palladium's systems (AR or MDC) accurately reflect the realities of vehicle armour and armour penetration.

Then again, this is a very difficult thing to duplicte.

Yes true but that dont mean we cant try to fix it right?

As for the general armor penetration, the best way is to give the armor the ability to resist some level of damage before its is breached by the attack. That factor could be called "Stoping Power" or simply SP. It could be determined by dividing the MDC of the armor by 10 and round down.

Ex. the CA-4 Dead Boy armor have the following MDC by location:
Head - 70
Arms - 60
Legs - 80
main Body - 100

Using the rules above, the SP of those location would be:
Head - 7
Arms - 6
Legs - 8
main Body - 10

With that determined then the next step.

Every attack that does more damage to that location than the SP value would damage the person inside. The damage would never be MDC but instead SDC. The amount would be 2 times the number of points of damage caused by the attack that were over the SP. So if someone inside a CA-4 is hit by a attack of 15 MD in the arm, the amount of damage received would be 18 SDC.

This by no mean state that the MDC of the armor is changed. The MDC of the armor is the same, just that it function against anything except explosions and blunt attacks is changed. Against Explosions and Blunt attacks the armor is the same.

This allows for situations like the one showed in an ilustration in the CWC on page 198 that show a group of CS soldiers in a firefight in some part of the Burbs and out of the way of shots is a Officer/female soldier woulded with the left hand over his/her belly with signs of being shoot and another CS soldier opening a first aid kit to help him/her.

Next step is to setup the scale of damage done to the character. I have done it by making the damage done to the character be different based on the type of weapon used:

Character Weapons (pistols, rifles, grenades, etc)
Multiply by 2 the amount of damage that bypass the SP

Borg and Power Armor Weapons (any weapon that needs PS 22 or higher like a Railgun, light anti-infantry weapons and mini-missiles)
Multiply by 3 the amount of damage that bypass the SP

Vehicles Weapons (ex. anti-infantry/personnel weapons and short/medium range missiles in general)
Multiply by 4 the amount of damage that bypass the SP

Robots and Mecha Weapons (ex. anti-vehicle/robot/monster weapons and long range missiles)
The amount of damage that bypass the SP are not converted to SDC!!! (you are dead)


Also I have done a little tweak to apply it to natural MDC characters or characters that can become MDC by using special abilities:

MDC Characters Weapon Scale:
Character Weapons (pistols, rifles, grenades, etc)
Multiply by 1 the amount of damage that bypass the SP

Borg and Power Armor Weapons (any weapon that needs PS 22 or higher like a Railgun, light anti-infantry weapons and mini-missiles)
Multiply by 2 the amount of damage that bypass the SP

Vehicles Weapons (ex. anti-infantry/personnel weapons and short/medium range missiles in general)
Multiply by 3 the amount of damage that bypass the SP

Robots and Mecha Weapons (ex. anti-vehicle/robot/monster weapons and long range missiles)
Multiply by 4 the amount of damage that bypass the SP


With that I have corrected one of the first problems with the Palladium rules about armor.

The second phase is to make every Armor Piercing weapon or attack to use the damage tables presented in the RGMG. So every time a soldier using a Armor Piercing missile against a Tank, the GM will roll to determine what system of the Tank was disabled or destroyed.

The tables should also be modified too, because they are presented for Robots vehicles and not aircraft, Tanks or the like.

If those things are done I feel that even if not perfect (no Rpg will ever be perfect) it would be much more plausible.

[Esckey]

I just went with AP weapons do double damage(quad if a crit) to any armoured equipment/item. Body Armour and most PAs and Exos are considered 'soft'. Thats about where I ran into troubles, I don't want to be to hard on the PCs and make AP weapons even more deadly to soft targets. Plus I wanted to make some anti personal weapons so people would have some use for a frag gernade other then its radius and lack of anything else to use

[RockJock]

The problem with the soft/hard target is back to reality. The AP would go through the MDC of the EBA. Even if it is a fraction of the damage done to the tank it will still liquefy the softy. Just my two cents.

A set of AP rules would be a great addition.

[Nightmaster]

The problem with the soft/hard target is back to reality. The AP would go through the MDC of the EBA. Even if it is a fraction of the damage done to the tank it will still liquefy the softy. Just my two cents.

A set of AP rules would be a great addition.

Have you see my house rule? take a look and test it someday. I feel that you will be surprised.

[Nightmaster]

If you have players like mine, those won't matter much....

Elaborate please.

[Nightmaster]

Only if you allow then to go unchecked and doing whatever they want.

Players that try that sort of thing with me end very fast in the graveyard.

This house rule that I use, makes players characters duck for cover, not charge Tanks and giant robots face to face ans so on. It stop then from acting like juggernauts.

[Nightmaster]

I use the concept of "The world spin regardless of what you (player) do or not" so if they dont follow the clues, they find thenselves cut naturally out of the action and fun.

That is how I give then freedom. The adventure, the action, dont come dancing to sit in their laps in my games. If they dont move or decide what to do they are just some bunch of idiots watching the grass growth...

[Nightmaster]

I know what you mean. I had once some players that were quite clueless. I was very harsh on then.

Call it "Shock Treatment" but sometimes you need to use it.

Two leaved the group, but the other 3 stayed and so they evolved. They broung in another 3 players and now we are what I could call a "Happy Family".

I never help my players. On a lot of times they simply failed the rescue, mission or other critical situation because they dindt act quick or were "Following the Ladybug"* all the time.

__________________________________________________
* when the players keep paying attention to non essential parts of the description and following it like it was important to the mission.

[GhostKnight]

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Rifts ... ittani.htm

K-ATL-10 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle (Kitsune):
Improved version of the ATL-7 developed after the anti-tank laser fell into the hands of the Kittani. The weapon has become very popular with Kittani soldiers as well as with individuals shopping the dimensional markets. A number of these weapons have found their way into the hands of the Gargoyles of Europe where they are considered terrifying by New German Republic military units. Luckily, the weapon still has the disadvantage of consuming a whole energy magazine each time it is fired.
Weight: 22 lbs (9.97 kg)
Mega-Damage: 3D6x10+40
Rate of Fire: Single shot
Maximum Effective Range: 4000 feet (1200 meters)
Payload: Single Shot per E-Clip
Black Market/Market Cost: 250,000 to 300,000, Uncommon on Atlantis and other Splugorth controlled areas, Very rarely available elsewhere.

[Aramanthus]

I know it's a sweet weapon!

[GhostKnight]

I know what you mean. I had once some players that were quite clueless. I was very harsh on then.

Call it "Shock Treatment" but sometimes you need to use it.

Two leaved the group, but the other 3 stayed and so they evolved. They broung in another 3 players and now we are what I could call a "Happy Family".

I never help my players. On a lot of times they simply failed the rescue, mission or other critical situation because they dindt act quick or were "Following the Ladybug"* all the time.

__________________________________________________
* when the players keep paying attention to non essential parts of the description and following it like it was important to the mission.

Ain't it the truth! Sometimes you have to "train" a new batch of players. I helps us know what they are capable of and how far we can take their adventures to. Interaction.

Maybe that's the fault of the GM. It's game... it's supposed to be fun. Not life or death stressful.

Back to the ATL. Comments? New versions? Ideas?

[Nightmaster]

Maybe that's the fault of the GM. It's game... it's supposed to be fun. Not life or death stressful.

Back to the ATL. Comments? New versions? Ideas?

I think that Rpg is roleplay. So if the players dont roleplay and dont think for thenselves then they will fail the mission or quest.

As for the ATL-7, I am against the increasing of damage to give the weapons its main purpose.

Simply add some special effect to the weapon. Like that everytime you use it and hit a target the GM need to roll on the damage tables in the Rifts GMG to determine what system of the vehicle was been damaged or destroyed.

[GhostKnight]

HI-860 Sniper Laser: A heavy HI-laser that uses a streamlined quad core from the Silver Hawk main rifle. A sophisticated computer system keeps all 4 barrels aligned and tied into the targeting system. A single shot (all 4 lasers) takes 1 3G e-clip. It can be tied into a 5 lb backpack clip for 10 shots, or a large power source for unlimited shots.

Primary Purpose: Sniping

Secondary Purpose: Anti-Material

Mega-Damage: Each lens does 1d4x10 md, so a full shot does 4d4x10 md.

Rate of Fire: Each shot takes 2 actions. Max of 4/round. After firing 20 shots it must cool down for 10 minutes.

Maximum Effective Range: 10k ft.

Payload: 1 shot/e-clip, 10 shots/e-pack, unlimited if nuclear. Marines are issued 2 e-packs (20 shots total) each of which recharge 1 shot per 10 minutes from their power armor.

Weight: 34 lb

Cost: 300k (3m in rifts credits). Currently restricted to the UWW Marines.

Note: +4 to hit in general, 12 or better to hit a 1 inch target per 1k ft (head size for 10 inches at 10k feet) +/- modifiers. A good sniper can make head shots 80% of the time.
Targeting laser
Targeting computer
Active balancing (internal mercury and micro-pumps)
1x-300x magnification
Active and Passive wide band detection systems
Source dispersal. This makes it look like the laser shot came from up to 40 degrees off.
Bipod and tripod modular configuration

[Aramanthus]

Very nice ATL! I like it very much an I'd like to try it out in my game.

[GhostKnight]

Thanks. I'm trying to make it a deadly sniper tool but still somewhat balanced. Any other ideas?

[RockJock]

I like Dark Max's idea of the RoF being based on 1/2 or whatever of the shooters HtH attacks as opposed to a specific number of actions per round, but it really ends up being about the same.

Do you mean the bullet is usually held internally as opposed to in a magizine?