Do you support the Coalition? Come vote.

[Kryzbyn]

<wonders why Canadians even bothered to leave Europe in the first place>

[Daniel Stoker]

<wonders why Canadians even bothered to leave Europe in the first place>

It's all actually part of a long term plot to drive you to distraction.


Daniel Stoker

[Aaryq]

I am a racist. I hate...uh...whatever a racial expletive would be for d-bees. I hate...uh...whatever rude expletive would be for spellcasters. And as for those psionic types...unless they're serving my empire, I don't trust them one bit.

[Jesterzzn]

I am a racist. I hate...uh...whatever a racial expletive would be for d-bees. I hate...uh...whatever rude expletive would be for spellcasters. And as for those psionic types...unless they're serving my empire, I don't trust them one bit.

You should trust the psychics least.

[dark brandon]

*scratches head*

i have been on these boards for a long while now, maybe not as long as others, but i seem to remember a day when the CS were typically viewed as the bad guys that everyone loved to hate.

i wonder when it was that opinions changed from CS is bad to the CS is doing the right thing [considering the circumstances]?

I've always had the opinion that the CS were good guys. The government is pretty evil, but that doesn't mean the soldiers are. Typically, CS can be viewed in a simplistic "They are all evil" way, but what makes CS really isnteresting is the fact that they are normal people who are in extream circumstance. The thing to remember is that the CS soldier is a human, and thus has a wide range of alignments and reasons. They are not demons who for the most part are simplistic, one-dimentional enemies. If you play the CS as humans, you'll have a wide range of characteristics.

And for me, it's really a combination of many things. From a show I watched years ago that went into what nazi soldiers were like (to my surprise they were all not evil baby eaters, most were rather "normal"), to a show on roman expansion to a friend who had a mother who was probably one of the nicest kindest people you'd meet, but had a hatred of all things vietnamees because her brother was killed in vietnam to my own personal belief on governments and war.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm just glad there is someone like the coalition to stick up for the humans since all the non-human empires seem to get a pass on everything esle

because leaving the world to the Lazloians mean we would be enslaved sooner

[Nxla666]

Lazlo- last bastion of humanities desire to pretend threats don't exist.

[Ravenwing]

Except if you don't feel it's evil, then you're not standing by.

If you watch a woman get stabbed on the corner street today and do nothing, that's a bad thing. But if you're racist and the person getting stabbed is black...you probably don't care. It's the same thing with xenophobes. Why would you care if something you feared/hated was getting killed? You wouldn't.

Evil is very much a human concept not shared equally by all members of the human race. One man's evil is another man's savior....remember that.

Exactly, Good and Evil are not set. Each depends on the "sentients" involved.

It's why I have always hated alighnments in RPG's and refuse to use or play by them, they are entirely to restrictive.

[Larsen]

Final
111 for the CS
70 against the CS
72 who dont care


This is coalition country

Maybe I'm not reading the same poll as you. Because mine says 38 for pro, 74 for them to ensure human race survives, 70 no and 72 try to stay away.

Oh I see you added your two yes's and not the other two no's. Oh, thats cute. Well lets re add the correct way.

final
112 yes like cs.
142 no don't like cs.

this is the land of freedom and not human cattle.

It isn't "Do you like the CS" it's, Do you support them.

70 no, they do not support them in any way.
111 support them one way or another.
73 don't care.

What's that old addage? If you stand by and watch something bad happen, you're just as bad as the people doing it...so in essence...

70 do not suppor them
and 184 do support them...one way or another.

Funny though I still the yes and no options in front of all the answers. The question isn't do you support or actively go against the CS.
So 142 no 112 yes. or split up all the votes as seperate. Otherwise thats just splitting hairs. Because I'm looking at those that kill the CS on sight those that still don't support them but get out of the way(cowards) the human supremacists and the desperate ones that just want humans to live no matter what the cost. Those are still for and against options. You want to exclude the cowards thats fine. You don't get to count the desperate among your ranks though. so the total is then 40 support. 73 against. Still losing.

[dark brandon]

Funny though I still the yes and no options in front of all the answers. The question isn't do you support or actively go against the CS.
So 142 no 112 yes. or split up all the votes as seperate. Otherwise thats just splitting hairs. Because I'm looking at those that kill the CS on sight those that still don't support them but get out of the way(cowards) the human supremacists and the desperate ones that just want humans to live no matter what the cost. Those are still for and against options. You want to exclude the cowards thats fine. You don't get to count the desperate among your ranks though. so the total is then 40 support. 73 against. Still losing.

The deperate are among our ranks, why? Because regardless if they choose to do so or not, they ARE supporting them. Just as we get those who do nothing except avoid the CS. Both ARE supporting the CS, in their own way. And that is the question. "Do you support the CS?". The ends is important in this question, not the means.

[Larsen]

Funny though I still the yes and no options in front of all the answers. The question isn't do you support or actively go against the CS.
So 142 no 112 yes. or split up all the votes as seperate. Otherwise thats just splitting hairs. Because I'm looking at those that kill the CS on sight those that still don't support them but get out of the way(cowards) the human supremacists and the desperate ones that just want humans to live no matter what the cost. Those are still for and against options. You want to exclude the cowards thats fine. You don't get to count the desperate among your ranks though. so the total is then 40 support. 73 against. Still losing.

The deperate are among our ranks, why? Because regardless if they choose to do so or not, they ARE supporting them. Just as we get those who do nothing except avoid the CS. Both ARE supporting the CS, in their own way. And that is the question. "Do you support the CS?". The ends is important in this question, not the means.

Exactly they are supporting the CS, just as those cowards are not supporting the CS. The topic isn't are supporting or hindering the CS the topic is do you support the CS. I'm not saying I'm happy that the pro-CS get the desperate and the anti-CS get the cowards. I was simply stating that you have to add the yes and no's together to be fair.

[Kryzbyn]

The coalition however has no right to impose their ideals and will on other intelligent life without the consent of that life.

"Honey, there is an Abolisher robot in the front yard saying that we live in CS territory and we have to leave."
"Oh yeah? Tell him to go f**k himself cuz they have no right to tell intelligent beings where they can and can't ...
<BOOM>

MISSION SUCESSFUL:
Pilot's note: "D-BEEs are purdy stupid. And they call us ignorant..."

[Kryzbyn]

In "Hippy Love Land" no, it does not.

In the real world, why yes, yes it does.
Ask the Native Americans...

EDIT:
See, this is why I like Star Wars over Star Trek.
In Star Wars, humanity didn't have to sacrifice anything or turn into hippies to invent hyperspace and conquer a galaxy, nor were they expected to change to live along side aliens...they got to be themselves AND rule the galaxy. I like that. I'm just sayin...

[Subjugator]

The Coalition is all that might let us take back our world again someday.

I'd call it for the Megaversal Legion.

/Sub

[Subjugator]

A human could neve become anywhere close to even a hatchling dragon. It may get up there in physical strength,but there are things such as bio-regeneration in such high proportions that nothing could give him that power. An adult dragon couldn't be matched by a human.

Two words for you:

Cosmo Knight

/Sub

[Subjugator]

The CS does use psychics in their military. Dog Boys, Psi Stalkers, plus all the psychic research they talk about in Psyscape.

I thought Mind Bleeders were D-Bees though.

/Sub

[Subjugator]

Second, Lazlo's government is 'equal' for now. But what do you think will happen when push comes to shove? Think a race of natrually superior individuals are going to really, honestly care--even when it's in their nature not to--about lesser beings? I really, really doubt it.

Where does it say it's not in their nature to care about lesser beings?

But hey, Lazlo does nothing and takes years to figure out if they should attack the Xiticix or not.

This is the real problem I have with Lazlo as an idea. They're too smart to be this stupid.

Would they refuse to seek to eradicate smallpox? Ebola? Marburg?

/Sub

[Subjugator]

Once again, you make little sense. You ask us, truly, to tolerate the intolerant??

Then I'd better rethink my bigoted views on Racists, Religious Fanatics, Terrorists, Rapists, and Child Molesters. You've opened my eyes, and I see now how intolerant I was of Bad People....

You can't fix Intolerance with Intolerance.

Obviously I am very late to this discussion, but I think you're right DB.

When I find someone who is an imbecile...bigot, zealot, rapist, et al, I don't hate them - I pity them and try and change their mind.

/Sub

[Subjugator]

We used to call Bigots and other intolerant folk "evil." What do you call them??

People.

They have thoughts and beliefs that are evil, and if they act on those thoughts and beliefs they are also evil.

I don't have a problem calling a pig a pig. I have a problem with not trying to help 'em if I think I can.

/Sub

[Subjugator]

As soon as one of them are being held against their will it's slavery

Huh?

It could be prison, kidnapping, or indenture. None of those are slavery (though indenture is close).

/Sub

[dark brandon]

In "Hippy Love Land" no, it does not.

In the real world, why yes, yes it does.
Ask the Native Americans...

Problem in this is belief. Some think that right/wrong are pretty much set in stone. Others, believe what is right/wrong is pretty mutable, depending solely on ones ability to back it up.

[Kryzbyn]

In "Hippy Love Land" no, it does not.

In the real world, why yes, yes it does.
Ask the Native Americans...

Problem in this is belief. Some think that right/wrong are pretty much set in stone. Others, believe what is right/wrong is pretty mutable, depending solely on ones ability to back it up.

Exactly. And the CS clearly falls into this latter category.

[Ravenwing]

history can help to determine what is right and what is wrong. in the present what you believe to be right may actualy turn out to be wrong. looking back it is easy to see the mistakes that were made, of course what is viewed as a mistake will be coloured by current morals/beliefs. so the circle goes.

History is written by the victor. Imagine world history had Hitler and the Nazi's won. We would all be far differant today, plus we'd all be speakin' funky german.

[dark brandon]

In "Hippy Love Land" no, it does not.

In the real world, why yes, yes it does.
Ask the Native Americans...

Problem in this is belief. Some think that right/wrong are pretty much set in stone. Others, believe what is right/wrong is pretty mutable, depending solely on ones ability to back it up.

Exactly. And the CS clearly falls into this latter category.

Not just the CS, but those who support it, such as I.

[cornholioprime]

history can help to determine what is right and what is wrong. in the present what you believe to be right may actualy turn out to be wrong. looking back it is easy to see the mistakes that were made, of course what is viewed as a mistake will be coloured by current morals/beliefs. so the circle goes.

History is written by the victor. Imagine world history had Hitler and the Nazi's won. We would all be far differant today, plus we'd all be speakin' funky german.

very true ... all empires fall eventually and the future empires will paint the previous ones whatever colour suits their current views.

Not so much todat, thanks to the seemingly limitless alternative sources of information at our fingertips.

In this current Information Age, it's a great time to be alive......and a great time to be a Historian.

[Ravenwing]

history can help to determine what is right and what is wrong. in the present what you believe to be right may actualy turn out to be wrong. looking back it is easy to see the mistakes that were made, of course what is viewed as a mistake will be coloured by current morals/beliefs. so the circle goes.

History is written by the victor. Imagine world history had Hitler and the Nazi's won. We would all be far differant today, plus we'd all be speakin' funky german.

very true ... all empires fall eventually and the future empires will paint the previous ones whatever colour suits their current views.

Not so much todat, thanks to the seemingly limitless alternative sources of information at our fingertips.

In this current Information Age, it's a great time to be alive......and a great time to be a Historian.

i would disagree with this on some levels but not all ... just take a look at your local news channel. most people are too lazy to do the research themselves and preffer to have it fed to them. plus the government still controlls the education system to various degrees and helps to determine what is and what is not taught in schools. as an example take a look into the differences between Canada and the US, both are very close yet very different (neither is more right or more wrong than the other however)

Ya Canadians say "aboot" it's "about" dang'nabbit" (J/J)

[Ravenwing]

yeah well you say ruf, it's roof for crying out loud!

hehehe, and over yonder. (which Ironically, even being from the south couldn't tell you the definition of that word)

[Kryzbyn]

history can help to determine what is right and what is wrong. in the present what you believe to be right may actualy turn out to be wrong. looking back it is easy to see the mistakes that were made, of course what is viewed as a mistake will be coloured by current morals/beliefs. so the circle goes.

History is written by the victor. Imagine world history had Hitler and the Nazi's won. We would all be far differant today, plus we'd all be speakin' funky german.

very true ... all empires fall eventually and the future empires will paint the previous ones whatever colour suits their current views.

Not so much todat, thanks to the seemingly limitless alternative sources of information at our fingertips.

In this current Information Age, it's a great time to be alive......and a great time to be a Historian.

i would disagree with this on some levels but not all ... just take a look at your local news channel. most people are too lazy to do the research themselves and preffer to have it fed to them. plus the government still controlls the education system to various degrees and helps to determine what is and what is not taught in schools. as an example take a look into the differences between Canada and the US, both are very close yet very different (neither is more right or more wrong than the other however)

Wow. I agree! You're in danger of losing your hippie status...

[Kryzbyn]

In "Hippy Love Land" no, it does not.

In the real world, why yes, yes it does.
Ask the Native Americans...

Problem in this is belief. Some think that right/wrong are pretty much set in stone. Others, believe what is right/wrong is pretty mutable, depending solely on ones ability to back it up.

Exactly. And the CS clearly falls into this latter category.

Not just the CS, but those who support it, such as I.

As do I. /salute

[Kryzbyn]

[dark brandon]

Second, Lazlo's government is 'equal' for now. But what do you think will happen when push comes to shove? Think a race of natrually superior individuals are going to really, honestly care--even when it's in their nature not to--about lesser beings? I really, really doubt it.

Where does it say it's not in their nature to care about lesser beings?

But hey, Lazlo does nothing and takes years to figure out if they should attack the Xiticix or not.

This is the real problem I have with Lazlo as an idea. They're too smart to be this stupid.

Would they refuse to seek to eradicate smallpox? Ebola? Marburg?

/Sub

It's taking so long because the books that come out are meant to serve the purpose of making the CS "73H B@D@55"

It took so long because no one wanted to write about lazlo.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Second, Lazlo's government is 'equal' for now. But what do you think will happen when push comes to shove? Think a race of natrually superior individuals are going to really, honestly care--even when it's in their nature not to--about lesser beings? I really, really doubt it.

Where does it say it's not in their nature to care about lesser beings?

But hey, Lazlo does nothing and takes years to figure out if they should attack the Xiticix or not.

This is the real problem I have with Lazlo as an idea. They're too smart to be this stupid.

Would they refuse to seek to eradicate smallpox? Ebola? Marburg?

/Sub

It's taking so long because the books that come out are meant to serve the purpose of making the CS "73H B@D@55"

It took so long because no one wanted to write about lazlo.

but i want to hear how lazlo is a better place then CS, since its one of a few d-bee nation that does enslave or eat humans

[Nxla666]

Yes, write Lazlo, so I can send in the recon teams...

[Kryzbyn]

I think the only one that can or should write a book about lazlo is KS.

[Kryzbyn]

Well, poop.
Some projects should be doled out to freelancers, but Lazlo, I feel should be done by the man with the origional vision himself. That's the only way It will be what it should have been instead of some anti-CS freelancer writing it or a pro-cs guy and make em too hippy or not hippy enough...

[dark brandon]

Well, poop.
Some projects should be doled out to freelancers, but Lazlo, I feel should be done by the man with the origional vision himself. That's the only way It will be what it should have been instead of some anti-CS freelancer writing it or a pro-cs guy and make em too hippy or not hippy enough...

I believe carl Glabella is writing it...though I could be mistaken.

Personally, I wouldn't want a pro-cs or pro-hippy writing it. I'd rather someone with a good grasp of the books and histories of rifts write it. I think it should be remembered that Lazlo is a very powerful nation, a very good nation full of many great things, from arcitecture to schools to well, everything, but it needs to be kept from being out of control, the writer needs to remember that Lazlo themselves have said that even if they did help tolkeen, they had no chance of winning the war, a better grasp on dragons of RIFTS (which is stated in the RMB and RUE that dragons are not social creatures), and other little things. Lazlo is a special case, it needs to be strong enough to make quebec afraid to attack them, but not quite strong enough that even with the combined might of tolkeen they couldn't be CS.

[Nxla666]

Gleba, huh, well he did allright with the 3 Galaxies books...

[Kryzbyn]

Oh, Mr Gleba?
Kk I feel better. I did enjoy his PW books.

[Rahmota]

Well I reservedly support the as written CSA. With a few tweaks to improve upon the question marks in the books the CSA is Humanity's last best hope for strength, leadership and salvation of a human earth. T

he New Navy is strong but they cannot do the compleate job as they a too small and too spread out. They are also confined to the pacific ocean theator which is a whole world on its own. Theya re also going to breed out humans with their sea titan supernatural beings which are no longer human.

The NGR is on the brink of the abyss surrounded by gargoyles and evil creatures that want to eat, torture or enslave humans.

And any other human society is either in a book I dont have or too small or pathetic or both to be mentioned.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

NGR is up the creek without a paddle

one important thing the NGR is depended on from the CS is food

[Kryzbyn]

Hmm this raises a question...
We, living in the now, learn from history that Stalin and Hitler made big mistakes. If we started a military dictatorship, I would hope we would learn from these things and prosper better than they did.
My point?
Are the names used by the Proseks (karl, joseph) used because KS wanted them to have commie names, or because Jo Sr. learned of this history and chose to name his child Karl after Mr. Marx and Karl named Joseph after his grandfather, and Joseph Stalin. Are they already aware of the mistakes inherent to communism/socialism and fascist military dictatorships?
I hope its more the latter than the former. It would give me hope that the CS could survive where Soviet Russia could not, simply because it's man's best hope for survival. Yeah, the NGR is cool, but needs to take a harder line to survive.

[Kryzbyn]

I mean a harder line vs. D-Bees.
Just more CS rhetoric

[Ravenwing]

you can almost guarantee that the original concept of the CS and their power structure was directly influenced by the Reich and Proseck is basically a different version of Hitler.

this is pretty well implied by the author in the "Good or Evil" section in the CS section of the RUE. i believe it was mentioned that Proseck thought Hitler was a brilliant man and that his only fault was rushing his plans to fruition. i think it also mentions somewhere in there that Proseck has styled himself in Nazi-like fashion on purpose.

Karl also has identified hitlers mistakes and moves to correct them. also unlike Hitler Karl understads he isn't a military genius, and thus has surrounded himself with real military men. He simply tells them what he wants done, and they do it.

[Hotrod]

Let me put this up front: I don't like the Coalition. I find the whole Nazi slant extremely disturbing. Specifically, I take great issue with their policies against literacy, their suppression of the study of history, and their system of totalitarian rule.

That said, I am a human supremecist. Earth is a human planet, and all other sentient species don't belong here. Humanity has many flaws, but for all our faults, I'd rather be ruled by a human than by some supernatural creature.

Humanity has regressed in the world of Rifts under the Coalition, but regression beats the extinction or enslavement. I'd rather live under the oppression of the Coalition than under the whips of the Splugorth, the bites of the Vampire Kingdoms, the swarms of the Xiticix, or the "enlightened rule" of the dragons of Lazlo.

Since I would choose to live in the Coalition, and since they beat back the above-mentioned threats, I must say that I support the Coalition States. They are far from perfect. They are in desperate need of a regime change, and their attitudes about reading and history are wrong beyond the point of stupidity, they are a bit too trigger-happy when it comes to pushing out the D-Bees, and I think they should take a more practical (though still careful and tightly-controlled) approach to magic and psionics. Even with their problems, I would back them over any alien power. Thus, I must say that I do support the Coalition.

If I inherited the rule of the Coalition from the Prozeks, I'd institute a literacy requirement. I'd transition the government into a representative republic. I'd establish a strong public library system.

I'd create an agency to regulate and exploit magic and psionic powers for the Coalition's use. I would build pyramids on all nexus points and all unconnected ley lines, and heavily fortify each pyramid. I'd find ways to magically induce rain in the southwest and Mexico, to drive off the vampires. I would deport all D-Bees in CS territory to Lazlo, and open up trade relations with Lazlo. I would recognize Lazlo's autonomy as a D-Bee reservation, provided they fight the xiticix threat. I would try to get the Tundra Rangers and the New Navy to join the CS, or at least coordinate their activities and share intelligence with Coalition forces.

I would establish policies encouraging people to spread out over controlled territories and settle new territories instead of crowding into heavily-fortified cities and their burbs. I would require all males of an apporpriate age to be reserve soldiers, and I would issue basic weapons and equipment to any of them willing to move out and settle into the country.

Then I'd retire and let the Coalition take it from there.

Of course, when I take the perspective of a D-Bee, all of this changes.

[dark brandon]

you can almost guarantee that the original concept of the CS and their power structure was directly influenced by the Reich and Proseck is basically a different version of Hitler.

this is pretty well implied by the author in the "Good or Evil" section in the CS section of the RUE. i believe it was mentioned that Proseck thought Hitler was a brilliant man and that his only fault was rushing his plans to fruition. i think it also mentions somewhere in there that Proseck has styled himself in Nazi-like fashion on purpose.

No, the only mention of hitler and nazi was made be erin tarn who commented that the prosek (I forget if it was karl or joseph) wrote a paper that once said admired hitler, but thought he was stupid for not listening to his generals.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

you can almost guarantee that the original concept of the CS and their power structure was directly influenced by the Reich and Proseck is basically a different version of Hitler.

this is pretty well implied by the author in the "Good or Evil" section in the CS section of the RUE. i believe it was mentioned that Proseck thought Hitler was a brilliant man and that his only fault was rushing his plans to fruition. i think it also mentions somewhere in there that Proseck has styled himself in Nazi-like fashion on purpose.

No, the only mention of hitler and nazi was made be erin tarn who commented that the prosek (I forget if it was karl or joseph) wrote a paper that once said admired hitler, but thought he was stupid for not listening to his generals.

its was Karl,

[dark brandon]

oh yes he is a perfectly sane man who has recognized all of Hitler's mistakes and will not repeat them. he only thinks that Hitler was a great man and a hero to be idolized, despite his ... umm ... unfortunate misgivings.

nope he won't make all the mistakes that Hitler did, no sir.

all he wants is to live forever, build the most powerful army and nation the world has ever seen, string up anyone who disagrees with his 'vision of greatness', keep the population uneducated/ignorant so he can better keep them under his thumb and sell them any old crack-pot idea he dreams up, wage war not only on all d'bees but magic users and fellow human nations or anyone else he feels is a threat to his power ... all by his lonesome (who needs allies?).

Karl has already stated that the war with quebec was a mistake. Unlike hitler, Karl can fess up to making a mistake, and he has a few allies but in the world of rifts having allies doesn't amount to much. NGR has a formal alliance with CS as does (now) Quebec. So, yes, in order to get a job done, CS is in the best position to do it.

I never read that he wants to live forever, unless you concider going down in history as "living forever" then yes, and isn't that the dream of everyone? Also, every nation wants to have the strongest military, Power = Right. And yes, just like any nation, he'll go to war with anyone who impeeds his vision, which is also the vision of the nation. None of this sounds explicity 'crazy' most of it in fact can be attributed to other nations of our modern world doing exactly the same thing (except for the uneducated part).

your right he seems like a man with a grand dream and the plan to get it all done. yup that's a goal worthy of only the greatest of men and he will succeed in all of those things and then some.

pfft ... he's a friggen nut-ball, not some great leader of the human race.

He does have his insanity (megolomania), but he's also as well as joseph very intelligent as well as charismatic (Check out their IQ's and ME's). He's also forged together the strongest human nation (except for NGR). He has built a great nation out of the ashes of nothing.

on a side note, do you honestly think that Hitler wasn't surrounded by 'real' military men that didn't attempt to do what was asked of them? ...

(apologies if this sounds harsh, this is sarcastic and not intended to be mean spirited)

On a side note, it's also been mentioned that (Unlike hitler) Prosek is willing to listen to his "real" military men.

[Hotrod]

You can support the U.S. and despise the president. Can you support the coalition and hate its ruler?

[Subjugator]

You can support the U.S. and despise the president. Can you support the coalition and hate its ruler?

Certainly.

[Ravenwing]

you can almost guarantee that the original concept of the CS and their power structure was directly influenced by the Reich and Proseck is basically a different version of Hitler.

this is pretty well implied by the author in the "Good or Evil" section in the CS section of the RUE. i believe it was mentioned that Proseck thought Hitler was a brilliant man and that his only fault was rushing his plans to fruition. i think it also mentions somewhere in there that Proseck has styled himself in Nazi-like fashion on purpose.

Karl also has identified hitlers mistakes and moves to correct them. also unlike Hitler Karl understands he isn't a military genius, and thus has surrounded himself with real military men. He simply tells them what he wants done, and they do it.

oh yes he is a perfectly sane man who has recognized all of Hitler's mistakes and will not repeat them. he only thinks that Hitler was a great man and a hero to be idolized, despite his ... umm ... unfortunate misgivings.

nope he won't make all the mistakes that Hitler did, no sir.

all he wants is to live forever, build the most powerful army and nation the world has ever seen, string up anyone who disagrees with his 'vision of greatness', keep the population uneducated/ignorant so he can better keep them under his thumb and sell them any old crack-pot idea he dreams up, wage war not only on all d'bees but magic users and fellow human nations or anyone else he feels is a threat to his power ... all by his lonesome (who needs allies?).

your right he seems like a man with a grand dream and the plan to get it all done. yup that's a goal worthy of only the greatest of men and he will succeed in all of those things and then some.

pfft ... he's a friggen nut-ball, not some great leader of the human race.

on a side note, do you honestly think that Hitler wasn't surrounded by 'real' military men that didn't attempt to do what was asked of them? ...

(apologies if this sounds harsh, this is sarcastic and not intended to be mean spirited)

( Not offended.)

First let me say I was useing ole CSWC as my little paraphrase went. However history does tell us a few things.

1. Hitler did not listen to his generals, and had them so afraid to offer a differant view of anything. Part of the reason for the invasion of Russia, was because he "knew" they could win. Infact IIRC the general who brought up the supply, and equipment problems that would be expected was sent to the big concentration camp(forgive me, but I just can't even begin to spell it's name.), as a traitor.

2. Hitler had much more confidence in his own infallacy." He was never wrong," or so he thought. When his errors were pointed out to him he pushed blame to others, or simply had the pointer killed. Now I'm not saying Karls perfect, but he is a pre-rifts historian. He can see where Hitler erried. Now thats not to say he has all the kinks worked out. but as presented in CSWC he does.

And in CSWC it makes numerous mention of Karl going on about how Hitler errored, it has a much more lengthy explination then my little paraphase that started this quote (like a page). It also has numerous mentions of Hitlers so called genius.