How much should gems cost in the Center marketplaces?

Braden Campbell · Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:32 pm

In all honesty, they should be valueless in a pan-galactic society with hundreds of millions of planets at its disposal. I mean, gold is only a precious metal because there is a limited supply of the stuff within our grasp. But by the rules of supply and demand, the more there is of something, the less its value.

But the above situation really sucks for those who arrive in Center from other dimensions.

I would say one-tenth of their RUE book value for things like gold, silver, diamond and the like. That makes for quick math.

On the flip side, GMs should feel free to invent substances that are rare and therefore precious in the 3G's... like teelium, killaryte, and star dust.

devillin · Unread post by **devillin** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:04 am

The problem with making them valueless is that it then makes technowizard devices far too inexpensive to make. At least on Rifts Earth you can make gems above a certain size unique and extremely hard to get. In a setting like the 3Gs, those 100 carat gems are a dime a dozen. Add that to a non-existant price and you are looking at a disaster waiting to happen.

Braden Campbell · Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:15 am

Good points, my friend.

So... just keep their values the same in Center as on Rifts. Simple.

GhostKnight · Unread post by **GhostKnight** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:53 am

I thought that Rifts credits were equivalent to half the 3G credits. I'd just go with a straight conversion based on the credits rate.

glitterboy2098 · Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:49 pm

Gem value will vary depending on the planet.

for example, on a really high tech planet, Diamonds, Rubies, and Sapphires are likely to be near worthless. those would be easy to manufacture, and have a multitude of industrial applications. so they will be dirt cheap.

Example: Lead up......and punchline

others that aren't as easy to make or have little or no industrial use are likely to be very valuable.

so the high tech societies might think a diamond necklace as worthless, but set a high value in Turquoise or Amethyst.

in lower tech societies, things will be much like our real world, though how common they are on that world will change the exact value.

(opens up an interesting trade option. some high tech trader buying up entire worlds with tons of 'worthless' diamonds that the locals value immensely. a space opera version of 'a box of beads for your land'.

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:42 pm

i figure that the cost of gemstones that TW would want to work with would be hiked up by a cost of x10 ... because some of hte 'required' gemstones are actually kinda on the rare side.

yes .. there will be other deposits of gemstones out in the various planets .. BUT they would NOT be of the same type that are found on earth... thus the 'powers' a TW could utilize or get to work with stones from earth WONT WORK on alien stones.

why? ... NO ALL STONES in space will have the same freaking molecular structure ...

*god .. i'm going all 'knowledgeable' again ... shudders and starts to wory that it will continue for hte rest of the day*

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:00 pm

really? ... i was informed that ANY stone would work .. be it natural or man-made ... just that natural are better focal points - AKA - more powerful

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:08 pm

i personally love the karat/cost that a 'stone master' will pay/charge for the stones in their possession.

but hey .. if you haven't found that info ... i dont think I'm gonna share the link ... but it has about 20 samples of gemstones ... and the powers they include ... and a table of quality for said stone ... thus the cost of the gemstone changes with every stone .. so not all will be consideered flawless ... others can be HUGE and be multi flawed ...

*wonders just where the heck i found that diamond sword stat info ... cause i dcant find it now .... *sighs and carries on

GhostKnight · Unread post by **GhostKnight** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:09 pm

Don't TW devices require real gems, not man made?

The Rifts to 3G credit conversion rate is 10/1 but the equipment value rate is 2/1 according to the books.

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:20 pm

....

*wonders how others are doing this posting thingee while being invisible?*
*looks about and watches the kities for a reason where the other people are hiding ... cause i KNOW i'm the only one IN this forum currently*

i just stated that i was told that 'man-made' gemstones were also being used for powering TW gadgets.

not sure who said that, but i was told that a while ago. but here's what I was talking about karats * cost * quality

Below is a list of precious stones that the Stone Master can draw power from. Each entry provides the name of the gem, whether the stone is considered worthless, like salt and sulfur, semiprecious, or precious, the natural location on Earth where the gem can be located, the power that can be drawn from the gem, the cost of the gem per carat, and a table for the quality level for that gem. Each entry in the quality level table is a multiplier for the cost of a gem based on its carat value. For example, if a gem has a base cost of 500 credits per carat and the Stone Master had a three carat gem of this type with a quality level of 3 and the multiplier at that level was x3, then the final price of the gem would be 4500 credits (3 carats * 500 per carat * 3 from quality level = 4500).

the site exists ...

GhostKnight · Unread post by **GhostKnight** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:22 pm

I'd be interested in an additional multiplier for TW devices based on gem quality and rarity. For example, green and pink diamonds are extremely rare and expensive.

glitterboy2098 · Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:37 pm

there is no difference between a diamond formed deep underground, and a diamond made in a lab. both are products of placing carbon under great heat and pressure. whether by depth or by pressure chamber, the results are the same.
making a gem artificially still results in a real gem.
(in fact, for purity and quality control, man-made beats out natural most of the time, since you can ensure better quality ingredients, more ideal conditions, and more even processes)

for TW, the only reason i could see for needing a 'natural' gem is if forming inside a planet or other body imparts some quasi-mystical aspect unrelated to the gem itself. (for example, is the influence of ley-lines a factor? and if so, would making a gem on a ley-line or nexus result in similar effects?)

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:47 pm

they may have the same 'molecules ratio and such ... but they are still not 'true' gemstones. if you could hear the harmonics of tem, they wouldbe off. there would be a 'tinny' sound to them .. something like a steel guitar tone instead of a harplike tone

that would be the difference ... sounless a race canhear the 'harmonics' it would hve to be a continued 'hit-miss' for 'real gemstones'

mind you ... i think it would be hilarious that the stones in an ocean were all gemstones ... on THAT world .. tw would be useless ... anyone would pickup agemstone and cause a bunch ofissues to happen ... and then be considered to be 'mundane' after a while ...
an interesting idea, but useless after all ... dang

glitterboy2098 · Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:09 pm

shiiv-a wrote:they may have the same 'molecules ratio and such ... but they are still not 'true' gemstones. if you could hear the harmonics of tem, they would be off. there would be a 'tinny' sound to them .. something like a steel guitar tone instead of a harp-like tone

that would be the difference ... so unless a race can hear the 'harmonics' it would have to be a continued 'hit-miss' for 'real gemstones'

Harmonic vibrations are a function of chemical structure and gross physical form.

so when comparing 'natural' to 'artificial' the results would be the same. in fact, artificial would be slightly clearer due to fewer impurities.

i think the difference in the TW stuff is natural vs. synthetic. IE: diamond vs. diamond looking. you need a real diamond, not a cubic zircon or a chunk of glass. whether it is mined or made should not matter.

as it is, i was not referring to TW in my original post. i was merely answering the question on gem price. some gems which are easily made would be dirt cheap, especially if those are used frequently. industrial gems would be cheaper than jewelry trade, but they would still be cheap.

if you go with the idea that TW need gems mined from the ground, it just makes it more difficult and expensive to obtain (afterall, if you can make tons of diamond in an afternoon via technology, why bother actually mining the things? mining costs lots of money for little return.)

in a setting like Phase World, where TW and magic is somewhat common, i would imagine legitimate gem dealers would have certificates of authenticity that state whether their gems were mined or made.

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:30 pm

dunno ... but here is alucerative business for a stone master who wants to specialize in gemstones ...

http://homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/Pall ... mmagic.htm

for a stone master to corner the market in a ... say a 250 square mile radius/territory .. would make a massive killing money wise by buying from the miners ... getting thestones all nice and shiney and ready for work .. and then selling them to TW ...

hmm ... maybe i should dig out my gem mage again and see if its worth the effort to rework it so she's no longer a unique and solo magic class ... she could need students to learn what she knows ... ? .. *shrugs*

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:49 pm

I've read that stuff on that site. He's got some nice stuff there!

Esckey · Unread post by **Esckey** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:13 am

Heres more cannon fodder for the discussion, even though its two years old.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3492919.stm?Awesome

Now thats gonna be an expensive wedding ring.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:04 am

That is a gem I'd love to get my hands on. Imagine the TW stuff you could create with that monster. :shock:

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:19 am

Yeah, but the first human to get it will be a woman! Since a diamond is a girls best friend.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:54 am

LOL Could be, but I'm not going to argue with that statement. We both know it's true! :lol:

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:48 pm

...

well .. ican see that this topic doesn't need my input anymore.

i can onlyassume that you are refering to the lavacious blondes that sing that song, and not to women in general.
after all, easier to bash the unknown that to actually ask for verification frm .. say .. females.

yes, there are golddiggers .. but they are in both genders

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:20 pm

whatever ...

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:36 pm

Opals and Saphires are sooo much more colourful

Diamonds!? -pah- pedestrian!
Any female (or male) worth their gold-digging licence will go for the colourful stuff first. Diamonds can be grown by the shovelful (by the tanker-full in a tech advanced society). Why would any fem want one? They're used for mecha, starships, and quantuum computers

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:02 pm

And by the UWW...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:22 am

I apologize! :::Bowing::: But I knew several women like that. I've had some bad experences with those ones. Please forgive me Shiiv-A.

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:00 am

Darkmax wrote:I have always wondered about the pricing of such stones... who made them that expensive?

Supply and demand.

Probably in the 3 Galaxies, where the UWW (and probably
several other magic-using culture) are mining for gems on
an industrial scale, gem prices are much more lower,
than on Rifts Earth.

And of course, while the canon rules are not detailing this,
there are at least 3 categories for gems, such as
- TW value
- Industrial value
- Aesthetic value

And those three are usually not near the same. I mean
a pretty necklace might worth millions in a jewelry store,
but the stones in it are not much for a TW or a NE laser
manufacturer (who probably uses synthetic crystals,
which are not much for the other two areas).

Adios
KLM

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:27 am

Gold? Not anymore, I guess.

In the 3 Gs it is more like barter.

Maybe Promethean credits are the base of most
intergalactic trade, and Phase World playing a role,
not unlike modern day Switzerland.

Adios
KLM

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:36 am

Darkmax wrote:Gold is still very much the standard today, in our world.

When I have several million barrels of crude oil, and you
have a wing of 5th generation fighter jest, neither of us
are even thinking about gold, right?

I don't know about PW, but barter can be quite difficult. Especially when you try to swindle each other out of the value....

Just like today.

Everytime one checks the inventory of a contract,
we can find "interesting" prices. Sometimes we bother
sometimes we don't.

Adios
KLM

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:46 am

I mean there are NOT enough gold to back up each Euro, USD, whatever.

Nor silver, nor gemstones. Not even ores, coal and oil.

But that brought me to my limit in economics

Adios
KLM

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:01 am

I've always like the thought of gold being used as a standard in areas that might not access to the 3G's universal credits.

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:29 am

A bunch of second stagers

Adios
KLM

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:53 am

While it was a good opportunity to crack a joke,
I meant it with more of grain of truth.

I mean it is Phase World, who is the heart of the 3 Galactic
community, both economically, and politically.

Phase world is the place where one can expect TGE, CCW, UWW
and even sploog forces to fight a common foe (ie. anyone foolish
enough to try to invade Center).

It is also a place, where a race, newly joined to the FTL
community can acquire enough know-how to close the
technological gap within a few decades.

And there are the Second Stagers, with more potential
than the Vorlons in B5, who run this show.

Adios
KLM

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:35 pm

one thing you all seem to forget.

the ONLY real NEW money, is what comes out of the ground. i'll take raw metals and such first. convert itto cash IN hand .. then hide that away.

the rest of hte world has money .. yeah .. BUT if everyone in a city demanced their money all at once, the bank would go broke. in fact ALL the banks would. why? .. because you went from digital to hard and solid cash.

scarey .. *smiles blandly*

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:07 am

I just revently watched a special on Fort Knox. In the show they mentioned that the US had over 140 million ounces at Fort Knox. I'm only quoting the special.