Chaff
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Chaff
I talking the missile counter measure. Not agricultural term used for the bracts and casings of cereal grain that are harvested along with the grain. How do you use it in games? What are your house rules? Since i can't find Any cannon. (It might be in Robotec But i don't have those books.) This would lead to some (I think) neat addition to combat in rifts. It would definitely keep people from blowing all there missiles at a target in a dog-fight. So what does everyone think?
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Kryzbyn
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I assign missiles a 65% Sensory roll. If countermeasures are used, then ech gives a -10% to that roll.
One chaff = 55% roll
All eight = Damn near impossible, but now vulnerable to future attacks.
Usually keep this rule "behind the screen" to keep things interesting
Also, dumping chaff or flares takes the place of shooting it down. Either one or the other, not both.
One chaff = 55% roll
All eight = Damn near impossible, but now vulnerable to future attacks.
Usually keep this rule "behind the screen" to keep things interesting
Also, dumping chaff or flares takes the place of shooting it down. Either one or the other, not both.
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HIPPIES ARE WHAT D-BEES EAT
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Kryzbyn
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Yeah...I played in a game where the GM did something similar.
We (the players) were trying to instigate a war between the CS and Triax.
Didn't work so well...after a few botched rolls and mutterings of "I didn't think of that..." we found ourselves being chased over the atlantic by real fighters...whose missiles had a 98% accuracy system. All but one of us died over the atlantic, the one who didn't was devil-ray food...he died IN the atlantic
We (the players) were trying to instigate a war between the CS and Triax.
Didn't work so well...after a few botched rolls and mutterings of "I didn't think of that..." we found ourselves being chased over the atlantic by real fighters...whose missiles had a 98% accuracy system. All but one of us died over the atlantic, the one who didn't was devil-ray food...he died IN the atlantic
BAD MOMMA DOG-FACE BANANA PATCH
"Well said, Kryzbyn!
" -Killer Cyborg"...I have to agree with the questions and comments made by Kryzbyn." - The man himself, Kevin Siembieda
+100 "acting like a real man" points - DLDC
"Damnit, we agree on something. It's time to rethink my position." - Misfit KotLD
HIPPIES ARE WHAT D-BEES EAT
It depends on the houserules about missiles, whether
the "chaff" technology works or not, and if so, to what
degree...
For my part, I prefer more active defenses, like
CIWS, claymore mines, and counter-launcher missiles
(or airburst grenades/shells).
Adios
KLM
the "chaff" technology works or not, and if so, to what
degree...
For my part, I prefer more active defenses, like
CIWS, claymore mines, and counter-launcher missiles
(or airburst grenades/shells).
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
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Nightmaster
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R Ditto
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I don't see how chaff alone would work well in some situations.
It seems that "guided" missiles (especially the smart ones) are going to be using more than just active radar, such as image recognition, thermal imaging, anti-radiation, etc. With all the tech there is, it seems like it would be possible for missiles to be packing multiple sensors to make it harder to defeat them.
It would explain why there is a 25% chance of the chaff systems in WB5 will have no effect on the missiles at all.
For me, there isn't just chaff, but also flares, and in some cases, a 'decoy' designed to 'detect' radar signals and send out false returns to confuse missiles (and other radars) as to which is the real target, and to also send out radar signals to draw away anti-radiation capable missiles.
I bring up the last bit because I think even today some of the newer missiles actually track the radar emissions of enemy jets so that they can 'intercept' the jets course enough to switch to active radar when it is close enough. This not only gives it much better range than its radar alone could effectively allow, but also makes it a very handy fire and forget weapon, since the launching jet doesn't even need to have an active radar once the missile is fired.
Overall, I feel that jets should be packing chaff and flares, and not just chaff.
Especially since you don't need a several million credit jet shot down by some bozos with a few several thousand credit shoulder launched heat seeking missiles.
It seems that "guided" missiles (especially the smart ones) are going to be using more than just active radar, such as image recognition, thermal imaging, anti-radiation, etc. With all the tech there is, it seems like it would be possible for missiles to be packing multiple sensors to make it harder to defeat them.
It would explain why there is a 25% chance of the chaff systems in WB5 will have no effect on the missiles at all.
For me, there isn't just chaff, but also flares, and in some cases, a 'decoy' designed to 'detect' radar signals and send out false returns to confuse missiles (and other radars) as to which is the real target, and to also send out radar signals to draw away anti-radiation capable missiles.
I bring up the last bit because I think even today some of the newer missiles actually track the radar emissions of enemy jets so that they can 'intercept' the jets course enough to switch to active radar when it is close enough. This not only gives it much better range than its radar alone could effectively allow, but also makes it a very handy fire and forget weapon, since the launching jet doesn't even need to have an active radar once the missile is fired.
Overall, I feel that jets should be packing chaff and flares, and not just chaff.
Especially since you don't need a several million credit jet shot down by some bozos with a few several thousand credit shoulder launched heat seeking missiles.
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Nightmaster
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R Ditto wrote:Especially since you don't need a several million credit jet shot down by some bozos with a few several thousand credit shoulder launched heat seeking missiles.
You forget that the majority of the Ground-to-Air missiles of today are going to be laser guided so the chaff and flares would mean nothing at all to the missile.
That means that this several million jet is going to the graveyard no matter what.
Nightmaster wrote: You forget that the majority of the Ground-to-Air missiles of today are going to be laser guided so the chaff and flares would mean nothing at all to the missile.
Excuse me?
Air to ground... Well, more or less, thought there is
a transition to GPS.
But SAM?!
ADios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
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Kryzbyn
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Yeah you'd hafta be pretty quick to "paint" a flying target from the ground and keep it "painted" till impact 
Laser guidance is used for stationary targets, or slow movers.
Most of todays SAM's use Radar images and a prox fuse with a frag warhead so they only have to get close.
A to A ordinance uses infra-red, thermal (rare) but mostly radar imagery as well, also with a powerful frag warhead on a prox fuse. I dunno how many of them have impact fuses. But with look-down-shoot-down radar, lasers are not the SAM or AtoA guidance system of choice.
Laser guidance is used for stationary targets, or slow movers.
Most of todays SAM's use Radar images and a prox fuse with a frag warhead so they only have to get close.
A to A ordinance uses infra-red, thermal (rare) but mostly radar imagery as well, also with a powerful frag warhead on a prox fuse. I dunno how many of them have impact fuses. But with look-down-shoot-down radar, lasers are not the SAM or AtoA guidance system of choice.
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"Well said, Kryzbyn!
" -Killer Cyborg"...I have to agree with the questions and comments made by Kryzbyn." - The man himself, Kevin Siembieda
+100 "acting like a real man" points - DLDC
"Damnit, we agree on something. It's time to rethink my position." - Misfit KotLD
HIPPIES ARE WHAT D-BEES EAT
As far as I know, the only standard SAM, which uses
laser guidance is the ADATS, and maybe the Blowpipe,
if it is still in service.
Most portable SAMs are infrared, with infrared imaging
(flares are almost useless) is slowly becoming standard.
Larger SAMs are using active or semiactive radar,
since they expected to be fired throught mist
or clouds - which frankly blocks laser or heat.
However some SAMs can have multiple guidance
(ie radar AND imaging infrared - just to make someone's
day).
So, drop some trash and hope... that your active
point defense kills the incoming missile.
Adios
KLM
laser guidance is the ADATS, and maybe the Blowpipe,
if it is still in service.
Most portable SAMs are infrared, with infrared imaging
(flares are almost useless) is slowly becoming standard.
Larger SAMs are using active or semiactive radar,
since they expected to be fired throught mist
or clouds - which frankly blocks laser or heat.
However some SAMs can have multiple guidance
(ie radar AND imaging infrared - just to make someone's
day).
So, drop some trash and hope... that your active
point defense kills the incoming missile.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
Nope. Chaff is alufoil designed to create a juicy radar target,
flare is a magnesium torch, used as a tempting bait for
heat-seekers.
Same purpose, different threat.
Mind you, a lot changed in them since the first, simple forms
presented above.
Adios
KLM
flare is a magnesium torch, used as a tempting bait for
heat-seekers.
Same purpose, different threat.
Mind you, a lot changed in them since the first, simple forms
presented above.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
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jedi078
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Chaff works against Radar guided missiles
Flares work against IR guided missiles.
My house rule?
Chaff/Flare decoys: Chaff/Flare decoys can be used to confuse enemy missiles volleys so that the PC can dodge the volley. Chaff decoys confuse radar images to divert radar-guided missiles, while flare decoys provide a brilliant infrared images to try and draw heat seeking missiles away. The bonuses are not cross-cumulative, though; you cannot confuse a heat-seeking missile with a chaff decoy. For this reason each time chaff/flares are used one of each type is ejected. Each decoy will allow the PC to dodge one additional missile above the max number they can dodge as well as add +2 to the dodge roll.
Flares work against IR guided missiles.
My house rule?
Chaff/Flare decoys: Chaff/Flare decoys can be used to confuse enemy missiles volleys so that the PC can dodge the volley. Chaff decoys confuse radar images to divert radar-guided missiles, while flare decoys provide a brilliant infrared images to try and draw heat seeking missiles away. The bonuses are not cross-cumulative, though; you cannot confuse a heat-seeking missile with a chaff decoy. For this reason each time chaff/flares are used one of each type is ejected. Each decoy will allow the PC to dodge one additional missile above the max number they can dodge as well as add +2 to the dodge roll.
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jedi078
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Darkmax wrote:I've never seen such a countermeasure before. I wonder how much it weighs or how big it is...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countermeasure
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Zer0 Kay
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Re: Chaff
It would likely just add to the dodge or is already counted in it... maybe. Doubt that it is in RT though because they never used any, prefer to dodge the missiles with wild acrobatics or blow up.Blight wrote:I talking the missile counter measure. Not agricultural term used for the bracts and casings of cereal grain that are harvested along with the grain. How do you use it in games? What are your house rules? Since i can't find Any cannon. (It might be in Robotec But i don't have those books.) This would lead to some (I think) neat addition to combat in rifts. It would definitely keep people from blowing all there missiles at a target in a dog-fight. So what does everyone think?
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Tigermuppetcut
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I'd just keep it simple and assume anything like that is factored into the dodge bonus of the craft.
If I wanted to add any more bonuses specifically from chaff and the like then I'd still just add it into the dodge somehow.
Combat is quite long enough, with quite enough rolls and counter rolls without adding any more!
If I wanted to add any more bonuses specifically from chaff and the like then I'd still just add it into the dodge somehow.
Combat is quite long enough, with quite enough rolls and counter rolls without adding any more!
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Zer0 Kay
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Uh... how does chaff trap your enemy?Darkmax wrote:yeah, but there are times you just want to trap your enemy.....
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ShadowLogan
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Zer0 Kay
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Chaff doesn't stay boyant in the air long enough to fool aircraft not to mention:Darkmax wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Uh... how does chaff trap your enemy?Darkmax wrote:yeah, but there are times you just want to trap your enemy.....
By using your craft or the chaffs are a lure.
1) when they got close enought to perform a dog fight they'd notice
2) chaff become stationary and won't fly formation
You'd need a drone to do that.
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Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
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Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
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Zer0 Kay
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For reference I'm a Ground Radar Technician in the USAF AFSC 2E071 Staff Sergeant
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
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Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Zer0 Kay wrote:Chaff doesn't stay boyant in the air long enough to fool aircraft not to mention:Darkmax wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Uh... how does chaff trap your enemy?Darkmax wrote:yeah, but there are times you just want to trap your enemy.....
By using your craft or the chaffs are a lure.
1) when they got close enought to perform a dog fight they'd notice
2) chaff become stationary and won't fly formation
You'd need a drone to do that.
Or a towed decoy...
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
Nope, I think more than 80% of the guys who ever
got shot down in an aircraft did not know who shot
them at the first place.
Then maybe we can play decoys, but I would
assign this task to drones - except I am sure
that I can keep out of weapon range. Shields,
chaff/flare, ECM, point defense aside...
Adios
KLM
your armchair experte
got shot down in an aircraft did not know who shot
them at the first place.
Then maybe we can play decoys, but I would
assign this task to drones - except I am sure
that I can keep out of weapon range. Shields,
chaff/flare, ECM, point defense aside...
Adios
KLM
your armchair experte
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
Not really.
Today jet engines (remember: those are SDC)
are designed to withstand "eating" of small
birds.
The "traditional" chaff is a rather thin aluminium foil...
And there is the problem is hitting the intake - not likely.
Kinda like trying to kill a "tail" with hand grenades
thrown out of the window. Yeah, right...
Adios
KLM
Today jet engines (remember: those are SDC)
are designed to withstand "eating" of small
birds.
The "traditional" chaff is a rather thin aluminium foil...
And there is the problem is hitting the intake - not likely.
Kinda like trying to kill a "tail" with hand grenades
thrown out of the window. Yeah, right...
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_%28film%29
Not neccesarily.
The above wikipedia article states them as explosives.
What is more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSh-23
This autocannon, mounted as a tailgun in bombers
is used for firing countermeasures - it might
even be the Firefox's defense.
Adios
KLM
Not neccesarily.
The above wikipedia article states them as explosives.
What is more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSh-23
This autocannon, mounted as a tailgun in bombers
is used for firing countermeasures - it might
even be the Firefox's defense.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
Well... maybe one in a million chance.
Adios
KLM
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
Sometimes aircraft do crash without even a golfball
But yeah, even if today turbines are rather bird resistant
carrier and airfield crew still take measures to keep the
runway clear of stuff.
-----------------
Back to that Firefox, I saw that scene in the movie, and
it was not chaff, but rather flare - and in the wikipedia
it is mentioned as more like aerial mines.
Whatever... It is reallllly tricky to hit the intake with
a free falling decoy, whatever it might be. Not impossible,
just improbable.
Adios
KLM
But yeah, even if today turbines are rather bird resistant
carrier and airfield crew still take measures to keep the
runway clear of stuff.
-----------------
Back to that Firefox, I saw that scene in the movie, and
it was not chaff, but rather flare
- and in the wikipedia
it is mentioned as more like aerial mines.
Whatever... It is reallllly tricky to hit the intake with
a free falling decoy, whatever it might be. Not impossible,
just improbable.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
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Zer0 Kay
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A towed decoy would reduce the speed of the aircraft plus you couldn't use it to "trap" an opponent unless there going to go after multiple aircraft rather than the lone aircraft.KLM wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Chaff doesn't stay boyant in the air long enough to fool aircraft not to mention:Darkmax wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Uh... how does chaff trap your enemy?Darkmax wrote:yeah, but there are times you just want to trap your enemy.....
By using your craft or the chaffs are a lure.
1) when they got close enought to perform a dog fight they'd notice
2) chaff become stationary and won't fly formation
You'd need a drone to do that.
Or a towed decoy...
Adios
KLM
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
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Zer0 Kay
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No it isn't but chaff still can't be used in a dogfight the aircraft are too close and most dogfight missiles are IR and short range.Darkmax wrote:I mean when you are being the lure and your comrades or wingman does the tag...... You guys really think dogfighting is done individually?....
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
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Zer0 Kay
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not great havoc. A bird strike in an engine is unlikely to make it not work. Chaff is essentially the tinfoil candy wrappers if it was heavy enough to cause damage it wouldn't "float" long enough to act as a sufficient RF spoof.Darkmax wrote:wouldn't a chaff cause great havoc in an engine?.....
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
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Zer0 Kay
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Ah wiki... the reliable sourceKLM wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_%28film%29
Not neccesarily.
The above wikipedia article states them as explosives.
What is more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSh-23
This autocannon, mounted as a tailgun in bombers
is used for firing countermeasures - it might
even be the Firefox's defense.
Adios
KLM
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
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Zer0 Kay
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:thwak: bad pun those are my realm... those and multiposts.Korentin_Black wrote:I do seem to recall an apocryphal tale from the Book of Heroic Failures (a remarkably English phenomenon) regarding a jet fighter brought down by a golf ball.
That said, I have no way of knowing how much... chaff... that story is, but I just thought I'd share. ^_^
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Zer0 Kay wrote:Ah wiki... the reliable sourceKLM wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_%28film%29
Not neccesarily.
The above wikipedia article states them as explosives.
What is more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSh-23
This autocannon, mounted as a tailgun in bombers
is used for firing countermeasures - it might
even be the Firefox's defense.
Adios
KLM
OK, prove it wrong.
In the case of the GSh-23 I actually read it first in a monthly
aerotech/history magazine.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
-
Zer0 Kay
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Didn't say it was wrong I just said that wiki isn't a reliable source. Try using it as a source for a college class and see what happens. Whatever the subject was could be completely correct but since it is able to be edited by anyone it makes it a non scholarly source that is suseptable to incorrect hearsay.KLM wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Ah wiki... the reliable sourceKLM wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_%28film%29
Not neccesarily.
The above wikipedia article states them as explosives.
What is more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSh-23
This autocannon, mounted as a tailgun in bombers
is used for firing countermeasures - it might
even be the Firefox's defense.
Adios
KLM
OK, prove it wrong.
In the case of the GSh-23 I actually read it first in a monthly
aerotech/history magazine.
Adios
KLM
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Yepp, but in a case where the cited info is accurate
(like 90+%) making such a remark, from an USAF
radar technician...
Especially, if I didn't take it wrong and we wre
talking about the fact, that the GSh-23 as a tailgun is
used as a countermeasure dispenser - the fact you
probably must be aware.
Adios
KLM
(like 90+%) making such a remark, from an USAF
radar technician...
Especially, if I didn't take it wrong and we wre
talking about the fact, that the GSh-23 as a tailgun is
used as a countermeasure dispenser - the fact you
probably must be aware.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
-
Zer0 Kay
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- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
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Why do you do that with the small text. What does me being a RADAR tech have to do with commenting on the fact that Wikipedia is not considered a good source material? You did take it wrong. I wasn't talking about the GSh-23 I was just saying that wiki isn't a good source, that is all.KLM wrote:Yepp, but in a case where the cited info is accurate
(like 90+%) making such a remark, from an USAF
radar technician...
Especially, if I didn't take it wrong and we wre
talking about the fact, that the GSh-23 as a tailgun is
used as a countermeasure dispenser - the fact you
probably must be aware.
Adios
KLM
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Small text = not really important.
...since I am not a NE salesman.
Adios
KLM
...since I am not a NE salesman.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
-
Zer0 Kay
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- Posts: 13781
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
- Location: Snoqualmie, WA
har dee har harDarkmax wrote:small texts are not friendly to older individuals....
Aww... don't go attacking each other please.
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
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Zer0 Kay
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NE? Naruni Enterprises?KLM wrote:Small text = not really important.
...since I am not a NE salesman.
Adios
KLM
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Exactly.
In case of NE read the small part or you will end
as a slave. And your planet too...
Adios
KLM
In case of NE read the small part or you will end
as a slave. And your planet too...
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
Well, for my part, they are playing hard but at least
try to maintain a facade of justice.
This means, they will use a font size and language
comrehendable to the costumer, even their
phrasing is mostly clear.
And they are dependable.
Just do not think you can get away without paying.
If you start missing payments, after a while (a really
short while) you end up under a mountain of debt.
Adios
KLM
try to maintain a facade of justice.
This means, they will use a font size and language
comrehendable to the costumer, even their
phrasing is mostly clear.
And they are dependable.
Just do not think you can get away without paying.
If you start missing payments, after a while (a really
short while) you end up under a mountain of debt.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
-
Zer0 Kay
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- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
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KLM wrote:Exactly.
In case of NE read the small part or you will end
as a slave. And your planet too...
Adios
KLM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
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Zer0 Kay
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Forget that there small print is all in the letter head and looks like art that extends like ivy vines down the sides of the page. Many macho men at arms has considered there contracts quite gay looking... until they were late on a payment and shown that the contract quite clearly states... (of course the NE would have to do this in a room where everything is cut in half with an electron microscope instead of a half magnifying glass and they'd have to use lots of etcettera, etcetteras... can you imagine the old Willy Wonka with Naruni in a weapons factory? Almost everything is Lethable... or is that shootable in here?Darkmax wrote:if NE uses small prints, you might not even think it is a small print. Perhaps you'll just think it a line.....
) you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
-
Zer0 Kay
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- Posts: 13781
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
- Location: Snoqualmie, WA
WHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAT??? They're led by Alien Intelligneces, how would they ever be that nice?KLM wrote:Well, for my part, they are playing hard but at least
try to maintain a facade of justice.
This means, they will use a font size and language
comrehendable to the costumer, even their
phrasing is mostly clear.
And they are dependable.
Just do not think you can get away without paying.
If you start missing payments, after a while (a really
short while) you end up under a mountain of debt.
Adios
KLM
sorry still have images of "Naruni Wonka and the Weapons Factory" you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
They are allowed to deal with CCW members in the 3 Galaxies,
and even the UWW - both power blocks expressly forbid the
worship of alien intelligences who aren't "behaving" - so the
NE deals much like a modern day MNC.
Well, in RIFTS Earth, they might deal like a MNC in a
thirld world, civil war ridden country, novelised by William
Gibson, yet the material I read till this time, does not suggest
any significant NE Debt Collectors' presence on RIFTS Earth...
So, the company as such have an "aberrant evil" aligment.
Adios
KLM
and even the UWW - both power blocks expressly forbid the
worship of alien intelligences who aren't "behaving" - so the
NE deals much like a modern day MNC.
Well, in RIFTS Earth, they might deal like a MNC in a
thirld world, civil war ridden country, novelised by William
Gibson, yet the material I read till this time, does not suggest
any significant NE Debt Collectors' presence on RIFTS Earth...
So, the company as such have an "aberrant evil" aligment.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
Sploogs are a bit different.
We have at least one "canon" Sploog, who runs an
extradimensional market in Center, who - at least in
the 3 Galaxies - runs his business as a MNC.
But there are 5 others (4 in the 3G and Lord Splynn)
who run their business as an AI should run it, you know,
slaves, blood sports, etc.
Adios
KLM
We have at least one "canon" Sploog, who runs an
extradimensional market in Center, who - at least in
the 3 Galaxies - runs his business as a MNC.
But there are 5 others (4 in the 3G and Lord Splynn)
who run their business as an AI should run it, you know,
slaves, blood sports, etc.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
No, NE is a MNC. More exactly a Multi-Dimensional Corp.
Sploogs are more like multi-dimensional warlords. Each,
with his/her own agenda. Kinda like each of their
Dominions are a mafia Family...
...thought as far as we know, no Sploog has killed
another, not even by proxy. True Narunies are hinted to
do it... sometimes.
Adios
KLM
Sploogs are more like multi-dimensional warlords. Each,
with his/her own agenda. Kinda like each of their
Dominions are a mafia Family...
...thought as far as we know, no Sploog has killed
another, not even by proxy. True Narunies are hinted to
do it... sometimes.
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
Darkmax wrote:dude... a MNC or a MDC (?) is still a business.
Err... I agree: NE is a business, since it is clearly profit
oriented. OK, it invests a good deal into aggressive
marketing and eliminating concurrents - but hey,
we can show contemporary examples for it.
(Well, maybe not for assassinations
)
However: Sploogs are not "just" profit oriented.
They are about to dominate as much sentient beings
as they can. So, they are... Well, maybe there is
a verrrrrry twisted and distant similarity to the
early corporations... Like the British East India Company .
Adios
KLM
But still, one of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather - This is why protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
- Terry Prachett
Small font: use ctrl+c and copy it, so you can read. But since it is in small fonts, it is not important. I am not a NE salesperson.
-
Zer0 Kay
- Megaversal® Ambassador
- Posts: 13781
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
- Location: Snoqualmie, WA
KLM wrote:Darkmax wrote:dude... a MNC or a MDC (?) is still a business.
Err... I agree: NE is a business, since it is clearly profit
oriented. OK, it invests a good deal into aggressive
marketing and eliminating concurrents - but hey,
we can show contemporary examples for it.
(Well, maybe not for assassinations
However: Sploogs are not "just" profit oriented.
They are about to dominate as much sentient beings
as they can. So, they are... Well, maybe there is
a verrrrrry twisted and distant similarity to the
early corporations... Like the British East India Company .
Adios
KLM
So who is Jack Sparrow? And who will play the more manly version of Orlando Bloom? You know Kira Knightly (as from ask a ninja
http://www.askaninja.com/episodes?page=2 you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-ViperBEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)