Are TW Creation Rules (RUE) actually fesable?

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Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Technowizards don't HAVE to have a constant stream of new gadgets. The fact that they can build them doesn't mean that that's all the class is about.
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Kesslan
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Unread post by Kesslan »

Easy, but expensive answer..

Do it at a nexus, and use PPE Batteries. The fact that you cant make such a device at level 4 hardly supprises me. Personally thats' something more of what I'd expect to be produced by a more experienced TW myself. So as a GM I wouldnt really cut you any slack on the PPE requirements etc.

But I would as I suggested, allow you to use PPE batteries, leyline/nexus points etc to build the device. Considering the time it takes you to build it and infuse it with the inital PPE investment I dont see anything wrong with you basically sucking PPE out of batteries, leylines, nexus points, or even sacrifices so long as you keep up a steady stream of PPE to the device while your doing it.

Sorta like ritual magic.
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Unread post by rat_bastard »

basically this is why wizards band together. You'll notice dozens of spells etcetera, all are too much for (usually) any one caster to cast.. Same thing.

just find a mage with enough ppe, and make something for him at cost once in a while...
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Unread post by Prince Artemis »

First off, TW's from RUE start off with an insane amount of spells. 20 iirc. Second, the ppe/spells needed don't have to be from the tw alone and there are clear cut rules for using scrolls and and other people's spells to make tw items. Third, for ppe creation cost, don't forget to factor in time. If your tw has 100 ppe and the device will take three days and the device needs 600 ppe, then just have the tw take his time, make it in 6 days and he'll still have the ppe for it. I don't remember seeing anywhere that said you had to have the whole creation cost right of the bat.

I played a main book TW, using rules very similiar to the rue with less spells than what the new ones started off at and I had little trouble. And my gm was the type to fight you tooth and nail to let the players have anything.
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Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Pyrineous the One wrote:Thanks to everyone for the advice on these issues (both of my threads on the TW). As I learn to understand Rifts better I definitely want to know what the precedents are rather than come up with my own hacks on stuff.

Seeing how I will quickly end up being the GM (as always) I really want to have a handle on these things so that I can help my players.

Kiler Cyborg, it was good to hear the reminder that the TW doesnt have to be a device factory. I suppose its true that he has a life and probably some other goals but as a n00b its easy to focus on the cool features of the OCC. Incidently, this device in my example was my first attempt to create anything even though Im at 4th lvl, so I didnt feel as if I had abused the system at all.

Prince Artemis wrote:First off, TW's from RUE start off with an insane amount of spells. 20 iirc. Second, the ppe/spells needed don't have to be from the tw alone and there are clear cut rules for using scrolls and and other people's spells to make tw items. Third, for ppe creation cost, don't forget to factor in time. If your tw has 100 ppe and the device will take three days and the device needs 600 ppe, then just have the tw take his time, make it in 6 days and he'll still have the ppe for it. I don't remember seeing anywhere that said you had to have the whole creation cost right of the bat.

I played a main book TW, using rules very similiar to the rue with less spells than what the new ones started off at and I had little trouble. And my gm was the type to fight you tooth and nail to let the players have anything.


Prince A, I definitely liked having a lot of spells to start with but I began feeling like a fire warlock since a majority of them were fire spells (which also use the most expensive gems from what I have seen. :eek: ), but your mention of taking time and using a flow of PPE is new to me. Is this a basic precedent? If so it sheds a whole new light on things. I wouldnt complain about something taking 400 PPE (out of my 128) if I could filter it in over the days of creation. That would be just a little over 3 days for my example which would be a well expected time to build something strange and magical.

It taking time for a slow input of PPE a rule somewhere or is it just a non-canon standard that was set by earlier Rifts players?



actually, hte fact that really big TW items take weeks or months to build was established in eairly cannon. once you infuce a PPE point in a TW device it STAYS with the device. You can take years with no penalties, in fact it's a good idea to do so. you could spend like 5 PPE a day over a period of months and years on even simple devices if you want to.



also: You seem to have been neglecting the fact that TW's, like all wizards, can absorb PPE from willing particpants in a ritual. even ordinary people will have about 6 on average, children will average around 16-20. just find someone and offer to pay them 5 or 10 credits to "close your eyes and open your mind...". not like most people will even miss it. heck, if your character has a high MA or is an especially smooth talker he could get most people to pitch in without paying a dime.
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Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Semisonic9 wrote:See, here's my problem. I think things like Ritual magic and TW devices, Nazca line drawings, etc, are meant to be done with an "all at once" expenditure of PPE, at least according to the rules. This makes sense, in many ways, as having a larger pool of PPE or being more prepared to spend large amounts of PPE is generally the hallmark of a more experienced mage, while beginners may not necessarily be able to pull it off yet.

However, logicly speaking, I would think you could do it in incriments for TW creation, especially items with 10-100s of hours of creation time and long spell chains.

I'm just not sure what a fair game dynamic for that would be. I mean, if you assume a TW is working on somethign in his jeep for a month and spreads it out every day, he's only out like 2 PPE a day, which makes the cost itself rather trivial on many devices.


A ritual's purpose is to draw the neccessary PPE to cast a spell over a period of time. you can't stop and start again under the rules: in fact that specifically breaks the spell. same with nazda line drawing.


TW creation is not the above and does not use the same rules.
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Unread post by Kesslan »

Oh I dont know, it's not that hard to fit a TW char into an adventurer group. I've certainly allways welcomed them since it ment cheap/free TW mods.

There's -allways- some downtime. As part of an adventurer party for the most part you'll probably have to stick to easy to create gadgets/mods etc.

ALso... say you cant make it for several sessions. Could be time your PC spent building something or what ever. Personally I'm fairly flexible on stuff like that, but your milage will differ significantly from GM to GM.
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Unread post by sHaka »

Nethel wrote:If you want the quick answer to wealth, partner up your character with a warlock: earth. Have them summon an earth elemental and instruct it to go into the ground and find the raw materials you need like gems, ore's etc. With the raw materials you can then have them processed for a fraction sum of the gems actual worth or take the gem cutting skill yourself.


Or get a Conjuror to create some gems for you :)
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Unread post by Spark »

In any of our campaigns the TW doesn't really have to roll if they put time into it. Say I want to build a level 5 device but am only a level 3 TW, if I take the time on it I can successfully make it, no question.

This is likely because our GM doesn't even like the XP rules and so we just say you're up a level now. So he does something like that with TW device creation. Because I'd have to be thumbing through the book constantly to be on top of all the rules and all the percentages of making a device otherwise.

As it goes I'd still support the failed TW rolls, but thats me. I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. I'll enjoy what I can do while it still is benifital in my favor.
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Unread post by Kesslan »

Sounds sorta like how I'd do it. But i allways like folk having at least some chance to fail when creating items etc.

Actualy on that XP note i'm not a big fan of it either. So I tend to be abit liberal with XP in general. Oh.. look you finished a plot line. Here have 1000XP each because your still alive.

Huh man that was a really cool idea. Here have 500xp.

Well ok that may be a slight exageration. But suffice it to say I tend to hand out enough XP that characters actually get to go from about level 1-5 in a few months or so of gaming if its' a regular thing.
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Unread post by G »

Here is the thread of what we thought of the new rules when they came out.

viewtopic.php?t=46390&highlight=
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