When did the great war take place?

[NovenTheHero]

Maintaining ships and equipment gets quite expensive. Hell, as a simple infantryman, I usually carried around 30k worth of standard gear, and if something broke, I had to get a replacement...and stuff breaks often. Say a CAF Trooper, who is carrying around hundreds of thousands of credits worth of gear, and something breaks... Now multiply that by alot when you have a space ship in mind. Big government = big waste.

[Braden Campbell]

You know the TGE-CCW war that basically forged the political map of the three galaxies, when did it happen?

500 years ago, in the year 9514 TE (Third Era).

It began when the Transgalactic Empire, together with the Dark Tribe Wulfen moved to conquer the remaining half of the Wulfen Empire (which by then was a Republic). The Wulfen High Council, knowing they were screwed, contacted the Noro/Human Alliance and asked for help in repulsing the invasion.

It soon turned into a total war, which raged for two centuries.

In 9500 TE, it finally came to a close when the Lanator Accords were signed in the Thundercloud Galaxy.


NOW... there was also a border skirmish which started 24 years ago, in 9976 TE. This "war" lasted for 4 years, and resulted in a win for the Consortium; however, since the whole of the Three Galaxies weren't consumed by it, it is safe to assume it was a controlled proxy war of some kind... like Vietnam.

[Braden Campbell]

You have now discovered why ground armies are pretty useless in Phase World.

For 600 million credits, I could buy 300 anti-matter cruise missiles with which to destroy an enemy from orbit. Thus, governments are going to focus their money on starships and space fighters (as missile delivery systems), rather than on having millions of soldiers standing around guarding stuff.

[GhostKnight]

I'd put that number at 100x higher. 1200/week sounds like a good comprehensive cost (not salary).

[Aramanthus]

I agree. Ground forces are the way to hold a planet. Without them your navy is going to get tiny fast during and invaasion as it has to set aside assets to keep planets pacified from orbit. Lots of casualities on the planet maybe too many for some of the governments in Phase World to handle.

[Aramanthus]

Ground trooops will always be necessary for any sort of war. They allow you to hold the ground. Then you can take most of the space resources along with you! Minimizing the resources you have to leave behind.

[KLM]

Well, the novel, Starship Troopers (the original) gives a
rather wide range of ideas how and why to use infantry
in an interstellar war, even when you can blast a planet
pieces.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Well in the space age, the idea of ground forces is to deploy them in-mass is to take and hold a location of Strategic importance and value to likely both sides, if for location, minerals or technology or even the population itself, most large empires don’t simply go ground pounding away, even the TGE as warriors would prefer ground combat to sensors and ships.

There are a few points, you probably have missed.

1, Orbital bombardment includes "Death Star scale" destruction,
but is not limited to such totaliarian solutions. I mean that
during WWII, in the Pacific theatre several Japanese island-fortress
were bombed, so their airfields and harbor were destroyed, and then
basically left alone.
Another example is Pearl Harbor: a hard hit on the enemy's
main base, killing as much ships as possible, but after it leaving
the mess behind.

2, The TGE is not your "basic evil stormtrooper empire". I mean
according to canon, the TGE usually won large scale engagements
because their discipline. Therefore - while I agree - they prefer
to go toe to toe, driven by kreeghor instinct, they are perfectly
capable to ignore that instinct.

3, Mind you, most goverments will try to surrender if orbital
bombardment becomes a near future possibility (and if the
terms of the surrender are bearable). Gunship diplomacy,
anyone?

And if your landing large numbers of troops onto a planet that includes orbiting ships capable of defending it and if the assumption that ships have to travel in-system using normal sub-light speed vs. FTL and risk slamming into something, (for game play that’s how I run it) the defending fleet has several hours warning as if they need to abandon the planet, assuming sensors pick them up.

Changing ingame "laws of reality", like giving early warning
makes several canon designs obsolete (=stupid and suicidal).

That said, according to the DMB's, 3 galactic ships can and do
arrive rather close to the planet they want to travel to, thought
during FTL they are picked up from light years, so a sufficient
early warning system can give hours.
Except maybe in the case of Rift-drive equipped attackers, as
it was demonstrated in the forming of the UWW.

And most military forces space or ground house several weapons capable of hitting and damaging large classifications of ships and denote the largest ships out there are the CCW BS Protector class, and the TGE SDN Doom-Bringer class, and while they are massive ships

I am not sure, that the Golgan Republik or a Sploog Dominion
does not have even larger, more capable capital ships, but
basically, you are right. Even if there are larger ships,
they are not aviable in sufficient numbers.

I am sure any respectable nation has ground emplacements capable of reaching high orbit and above do not have to worry about how much room they take up or energy behind it and in theory can make any large class ship rethinks it’s interest in getting into proximity to the planet surface. Any tactical admiral or general would understand if those heavy hitters get close enough to the planet the ground war is over. So overcoming that I’m sure (while this is entirely dependent upon GM’s as I’ve written up several dozen new systems for my own campaign) ground to orbital defense guns, mines, and orbital defensive satellite’s combined with a picket line of missile ships are all employed and used.

Now, if any developed and not dirt poor goverment can build
and maintain a defense network, which can stop (either by
destroying or by causing unacceptable lossess) a CAF task force
or a Doombringer (plus her escorts)... Well that would result
in a rather different interstellar political map.

Oh and one last thing, darkmax, if an orbiting fleet ground-pounds the defensive ground forces on a planet to the point they are dead, the changes of getting … loot unless your using some level of biological agents is next to zero with the fact it will be ruined, charred and in all probability cost more to repair then to obtain a new equipment.

Cheers

So what? The fact that no loot remained, did not save the
citizens of Dresden or Hiroshima.

Yet, later it was worth to rebuild both cities.

Adios
KLM

[Esckey]

I suppose massive defenses(guns, sheilds and the likes) are the only reason why the TGE hasn't blasted a couple of FWC worlds into charred husks.

[KLM]

KLM, interesting use of the WW2 reference of the two
atomic bombs dropped let me rephrase and re-direct. Those were atomic

Just for the record: I was talking about Hiroshima AND Dresden.
Single weapon of mass destruction (mind you, around the reign
of Kruschev the Soviets developed a nuclear device which - in
theory - could rip the Earth's crust. That was in the 1960's.
So, I think that civilisations having AM reactors, CG FTL drives
and shields do not have this possibility. ) vs. massive "conventional"
strategic bombardment.

weapons dropped by B-29’s on two cities, okay good reference except the fact we are not talking atomic weapons and propeller driven aircraft we are talking about something on the scale of anti-matter of singularity warheads used upon a planet from high or out of orbit starships, capable of striking dozens of city’s at the near same time, between galactic empires.

And I hope you notice a devastated city or fortified island relates
to (in my example) to the WWII Japan, as a whole planet relies to
a galactic power.

And the TGE is very much the evil bad empire of the 3g universe, they

Probably you missed the "stormtrooper" analogue. Maybe my
mistake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtrooper_effect

So, they are the "bad" empire, but...
They are intelligent and disciplined (thought predictable),
and except the CCW, noone else was able to withstand
them.

have a public awareness of they want to conquer and enslave everyone else who doesn’t submit to their rule within the 3g’s. And curious what book it says they win large-scale engagements with their discipline, other then overwhelming numbers.

DMB2, page 58.

Changing the laws of the cannon is up to the GM, I recall seeing a notice very akin to this,

“A GM is well within their rights to edit, modify or remove any material that may unbalance or disrupt his/her campaign.”

Yepp. Never said the contrary, especially with PB books.
I just warned, that making a change sometimes launches
an avalanche.

I take this to think they are allowed to add in anything they feel would improve game play and storyline. And your correct I concede that appearing closer in system is noted someplace but I do also know using their gravitational sensors can pick up ships using contra-gravity engines at something like 12 light years which still almost gives 2 hours of warning assuming the incoming are using some of the most start of art starships.

10 lys, but usually nothing prevents building a network of overlapping
sensors (the simplest form is to send a light warship, like a Proctor
to patrol the nearby, uninhabited solar systems)

As for a defensive network,
(...cut...)

Guns yes. Missile batteries? Definitely. Shields? Dunno... I mean
shields seem to be expensive and somewhat limited.

But for your later post (FWC defense systems vs. TGE bombardment)
I am really interested how you explain the flavor text of the
Smasher cruiser (DMB3)...

For my part I prefer that the TGE cannot afford to loose
more Doombringers (the Hopebringer destroyed 3 of her
sister ships), and are paranoid to send in 2 or 3 of them
(since it would give more power to the hand of a single
commander, than the Emperor likes).

Now I’m going to pause a second and then I’m done, but what’s with the atomic bomb references, I don’t think anyone needed a history lesson nor the reminder that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were completely destroyed. I don’t think the concept of anti-matter bombardment being less effective then past historical experiences ever was a thought on someone’s mind.

The atomic bomb reference was used as a reflection to your
"there will be no loot" remark. Looting in a high-tech warfare
is usually not high priority. (The sploogies might object).

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

Again some more interesting ideas. I agree about massive ground batteries! I've used them too.

[KLM]

Again some more interesting ideas. I agree about massive ground batteries! I've used them too.

As it is mentioned in DMB2 at the TGE.

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

That is one way to dealing with orbital forces.