Necromancy (feared for nothing?)

[Syndicate]

As one of the most recognized and widely used types of magic found throughout Rifts Earth (and beyond) this school of arcane discipline seems a bit under-powered. Even following the "update" of bone magic (Mystic Russia), the average Necromancer still has to rely on "outside" influence to stand a chance in any type of prolonged combat. Don't get me wrong, the natural abilities of the O.C.C. can be extremely potent if used correctly (and if the right parts are available). I'm speaking more of the spell magic itself. The term "passive" comes to mind when I thumb over the various necro-magic, which is not exactly the first impression an opponent should realize when facing an agent of death.

Has anyone created new necromancy spells of their own?

[Syndicate]

I've started to design a couple of necro-magic spells of my own (24 so far and need plenty of revision). After I receive a few spells created by others (hopefully), I'll post a couple of my own for criticism and revision.

[finn69]

i dont think its so much feared as reviled as these people are using dead body parts which implys that they are desecrating graves to aquire said body parts or even commiting murder to gain them.

[Syndicate]

Both valid and reasonable points (thanks).

Perhaps another position must be discussed.

I propose another "school" of necromancy (kind of like bone magic). Something with a bit more flare, and direct contact. Something to give a lone Necromancer a fighting chance. I'm a big fan of cinematics in games (green flares of energy, ghostly forms, etc.)

Has anyone even read the spell magic of a Necromancer? Geez, a large majority of their starting and mid-level spells are meant to scare more than hurt. I don't like the fact that Necromancers are "boogie-men" and not capable of anything beyond making S.D.C. walking corspes (M.D.C. with the right combination of spells, and it doesn't last long). There are maybe 3-4 spells that are worth anything when facing powerful opponents.

How many video games, movies, cartoons, holidays?, are based around (or have characters using) the undead? The expaned O.C.C.s in Rifter #8 were a relief, but even they lacked diversity.

Even in the Tolkeen war, they were known for just animating the corspes of fallen Coalitions soldiers (wow). Thats great and scary and all, but on Rifts earth (especially RIFTS earth) it won't get you very far. Necromancers should be feared for more than just making animated dead (which are essentially worthless other than as mobile shields).

[Syndicate]

NO one has expanded on Necromancy?

Well, I now have a mission...

[Library Ogre]

Sounds like a plan, Syndicate. Good luck with it.

For necromancers, however, I'd look at more than things that will allow them to strengthen their undead and animated hordes.

*How about spells which allow them to draw more powers out of a corpse that they've bonded to? Like that T-man's arm you've got? Why not bond to it and be able to use the Tattoos (for an ungodly price... spell cost + twice tattoo cost, since they're not T-men).

*How about more forms of created undead... we've got Mummies and Zombies, but what other forms of necromantic minions can be created?

*On the horde-strengthening front, how about a spell to provide a small MDC to a large number of corpses? A Necromancer would specifically look at something allowing 4 corpses per level, for 10 minutes per level, because that's how long and how many simple animated dead they have. If they can give 20 MDC to every corpse in their army for that amount of time, then they'll survive two or three hits from the average rifle, making them more valuable as fodder.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Dark Woods will (of course) have more on Necromancy.

Just an FYI.

~Josh

[Nekira Sudacne]

Also remember Necromancers are generally expected to be an NPC OCC, and their abilities releft that. their powers need lots of time to be truely effective, which they can be. NPC's can be assumed to have however much time was convinet.

also, for straight up combat? Death Word is the only combat spell you'll ever really need.

[Thinyser]

Ok so when I think necromancer I think of the ability to summon animated skeletons. Along those lines I suggest a spell like ablity that is inharant to all Necromancers and grows in power with thier level of experience. At levels above 10 it gets pretty powerful simply for the shear volume of skeletons that will come to the summons.


Here is what comes to the summons

Summoned Skeleton

IQ 2d4+4
ME 1d6+1
MA 1d4+1
PS 3d6+12
PP 3d6+6
PE never tire
PB See Horror factor
Spd 3d6+10

# of attacks per melee 3
Damage by weapon or 2d4 SD from clawing with finger-bones.
Surprisingly they are able to use melee weapons (at no penalty), and even firearms at -2 to strike!

Hit Points = None
SDC = 3d6 +12 (takes half damage from firearms and piercing weapons) Takes double damage from magical fires.
MDC = See*

HF 12 when in groups of 20 or more (+1 per hundred in the group to max of HF 19)

Skeletons are able to follow simple commands such as “attack all who attempt to enter”, “fetch wood for the fire”, “restrain any who attempt to escape”, etc. They are able to see and hear despite their lack of sensory organs but cannot smell or taste. They cannot speak but will clack their teeth when agitated and are able to nod yes and no to answer simple questions such as “Did an old man pass here since you saw me last?” or “did you succeed in your mission?” They are supremely loyal and will never disobey an order from their summoner.

Below in the "code" section is what the lvl of the necromancer determines.

-The first "column" is the level of the Necromancer
-The second is the total number of skeletons that answer the summons
-The third is the lengh of time (in minutes) that it takes for 50% of the total number of skeletons to arrive. They start to arrive in as little as 10 minutes and build and build untill the total number is reached. Its up to the GM to determine how many have arrived at any given point after the summons is complete. This number is also the lenght of time the necro must wait before using his summoning power again.
-The fourth is the lenght of time (again in minutes) that the skeletons will be controlled by the summons. NOTE this time doesn't start untill all of the skeletons have arrived even though "orders"can be issued to the skeletons that are present and they will obey even before all are amassed.
-The fifth is the PPE cost to issue the summons.

Code: Select all

1   1   10   30   5
2   2   20   30   8
3   4   40   30   10
4   8   80   40   20
5   16   160   80   22
6   32   320   160   25
7   64   640   320   30
8   128   1280   640   35
9   256   2560   1280   40
10   512   5120   2560   50
11   1024   10240   5120   100
12   2048   20480   10240   200
13   4096   40960   20480   400
14   8192   81920   40960   800
15   16348   163480   81920   1600

As an example a 10th lvl necro can summon 512 total skeletons, 256 of which will have arrived after 5120 minutes (3.55 days). After another 3.55 dayd the full 512 will have arrived and the necro only has 2560 minutes (1.77 days) of control left. After control is lost the necro must wait another 3.55 days before using his summoning power again.

The summoning is a ritual that takes 10-150 (level x 10) minutes to perform but requires only the drawing of a circle big enough to encompas the number of skeletons being summoned while chanting a rhythmic invocation. PPE is expended at the end of the summoning and if the ritual is interrupted the PPE is NOT lost.

*If quadruple the PPE is spent 1/4 of the skeletons will be MDC, their MDC being equal to what their SDC would have been. The necro must also wait 4 times as long before using his summoning power again. Note this is not possible until 5th level.


Hope you all like it.

[Lukterran]

I think that summoning a large group of skeletons like that would attract a lot of attention. Drawing on skeletons from a large area.

You know, passers by see a skeletal army walking toward a specific point. Do gooders and other noble hero types might follow them to their source and slay the evil necromancer.

You would be better off going to the skeletons, perhaps a place like the catacombs of Paris. 6 million skeletons clustered together for the taking.

[Thinyser]

I think that summoning a large group of skeletons like that would attract a lot of attention. Drawing on skeletons from a large area.

You know, passers by see a skeletal army walking toward a specific point. Do gooders and other noble hero types might follow them to their source and slay the evil necromancer.

You would be better off going to the skeletons, perhaps a place like the catacombs of Paris. 6 million skeletons clustered together for the taking.

Yes but they do take some time to assemble in the circle so it might not be very obvious for the smaller ammounts, and that is intentionally one of the drawbacks to the power (canny adventures can follow the assembling skeletons right to the necro or at least his circle)

[Nekira Sudacne]

Also, don't forget, Necromancers have a spell that lets them summon vampires.


and maggots. specifically the Great Demon Maggot.


Ya know, the ones with the stone beam eyes and 1d4x1000 MDC...

[Astral Pantheon]

Something like that is epic in scale and largely beyond the abilities of a single practitioner, as far as I'm concerned. To be honest, the thread seems like your asking "permission" to apply some really munchy self-made spells to your necro because he doesn't seem powerfull enough to you. While I don't really care what you do in your home game, I disagree that the class is really lacking anything "on spec".

It's true that not all of a Necromancer's might is found in necromantic spells. Like Temporal mages, they tend to learn normal invocations in addition to their area of speciality. They have an area of speciality (death magic) and then choose froma variety of standardized incantations, much like almost every other magic class out there. Some special abilities + some general spell knowledge = Rifts magic OCCs, by and large. See page 199 of BoM's rules on Necros and incantation magic.

Additionally, like Warlocks and Shifters, a Necromancer's relative strength isn't entirely based on what their own personal power as much as it is based off the forces they can command. A Warlock in my game is about to hit level 8 and be able to bring in the big guns. My LLR is not looking forward to this day... Anyways! Animated dead, zombies, mummies, and vampires and other minions can be considerable allies, especially if the Necro is inventive and well-prepared. If you're playing your Necromancer as the mastermind, "villian behind the scenes" type, they can be very effective. Like High Magi and a few of the other magic classes, they're much more cerebral characters than the "run n' gun" combat magic classes like the Battle Magi and Mystic Knights.

~Semi

PS- One of the Rifter's has a section on Blood Magic I read forever ago, which could easily be adapted as a certain school of Necromantic magic if I recall

I agree 100%!! With a necromancer's power to create mummies and zombies army; armed with MDC Armor and MDC weapons the PC (or any force) could be in sever trouble. 1 glitter boy vs a suprise attack of 30+ Zombies (with basic MDC armor and vibro-knifes)...I'm betting on the Zombies everytime

[Library Ogre]

Look in Mystic Russia for a better write-up, but it's also in Rifts: Africa and Adventures on the High Seas for PF.

[Syndicate]

Also remember Necromancers are generally expected to be an NPC OCC, and their abilities releft that. their powers need lots of time to be truely effective, which they can be. NPC's can be assumed to have however much time was convinet.

also, for straight up combat? Death Word is the only combat spell you'll ever really need.

NPC...exactly. NPCs should have a bit more "omph" than your standard playable classes. Heck, why not make spells that only a high-level PC or NPC could have access to?

Admittingly, Death Word IS a particularly potent spell. But Death Word is not listed (technically) as a necromancy spell...it is a spell invocation that Necromancers have access to.

It's video games...they've ruined my perception...

[Syndicate]

Something like that is epic in scale and largely beyond the abilities of a single practitioner, as far as I'm concerned. To be honest, the thread seems like your asking "permission" to apply some really munchy self-made spells to your necro because he doesn't seem powerfull enough to you. While I don't really care what you do in your home game, I disagree that the class is really lacking anything "on spec".

It's true that not all of a Necromancer's might is found in necromantic spells. Like Temporal mages, they tend to learn normal invocations in addition to their area of speciality. They have an area of speciality (death magic) and then choose froma variety of standardized incantations, much like almost every other magic class out there. Some special abilities + some general spell knowledge = Rifts magic OCCs, by and large. See page 199 of BoM's rules on Necros and incantation magic.

Additionally, like Warlocks and Shifters, a Necromancer's relative strength isn't entirely based on what their own personal power as much as it is based off the forces they can command. A Warlock in my game is about to hit level 8 and be able to bring in the big guns. My LLR is not looking forward to this day... Anyways! Animated dead, zombies, mummies, and vampires and other minions can be considerable allies, especially if the Necro is inventive and well-prepared. If you're playing your Necromancer as the mastermind, "villian behind the scenes" type, they can be very effective. Like High Magi and a few of the other magic classes, they're much more cerebral characters than the "run n' gun" combat magic classes like the Battle Magi and Mystic Knights.

~Semi

PS- One of the Rifter's has a section on Blood Magic I read forever ago, which could easily be adapted as a certain school of Necromantic magic if I recall

Well said...however,

In my humble opinion, Necromancers shouldn't have to deviate from what would be considered "orthodox" magic casting to be effective in Rifts (i.e. the Necromancer stands before you...raises his hands and casts....lightning bolt?!?) Are you kidding?!? How about a greenish flaming skull?!? Or a whirl of shadowy, inky, substance? For the popularity necromancy has gained in other systems and media, it seems fairly under-represented in Palladium (Rifts in particular).

While a shamble of walking corspes and rotting bodies is really nice, I think just a bit more could be added to truely make Necros a force to behold. I rather not go into detail about the usefulness of putting armor on skeletons, arming them, and hoping for the best. It's great that your players are all scholars and city rats just trying to collect some trinkets and survive the burbs, but I have to deal with the rest of the world books palladium has released. The Rifts world is advancing, and I don't think this primary magic class should be left behind.

[Syndicate]

I was hoping someone would post a few "home-brewed" ideas (yes, I know the first threaded message is for NEW spells), but I'll just post some of them here, and absorb feed-back.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS LIST IS NOT COMPLETE AND IS STILL UNDER REVISION...THIS IS JUST A GENERALIZATION OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

Death Mist-A rolling fog forms behind the caster. Anyone not protected by environmental armor (assuming they have to breath) must make a save vs magic or be affected. Those affected are weakened (speed reduced by 30% and -4 to P.S., P.E., and P.P.). The mist is obscuring (-5 strike, parry, or dodge), and is a frightening sight to behold (HF 13). The deep grey mist looks to have wisps of skulls moving about the interior.

Chaos Skull-The caster summons into his dominant hand, a greenish flaming skull. The skull can be thrown to damage a creature. Depending on the amount of P.P.E. spent, depends on the power of the skull. 10 p.p.e. = 3D6+3 damage to 5ft radius (flies 100ft), 25 p.p.e.= 5D6+4 damage to 10ft radius (flies 400ft), 40 p.p.e =1D4x10+10 to 20ft radius (flies 1000ft). Every 3rd level of experience the caster can create one additional skull. Each can be at a different level of power, and can be launched all at once. Additional skulls float within 4ft of the cast waiting to be used. Will hold for a maximum of 1 hour per level of experience.

Walking Throne-This spell summons forth a huge throne composed of bone and dead flesh. The creation has four massive legs that speed along at a spd of 35. The throne can carry a maximum of 500 pounds per level. Has a M.D.C of 40 + 15 per level. Lasts for 4 hours per level.

Flesh Wrap-This gruesome spell allows an undead, or animated dead to hide as a mortal creature.

Vampire fangs-the caster grows a pair of fangs (much like those of a vampire). Anyone bitten must save vs poison, or be put under the Necromancer’s control. Can control up to 2 people/creatures (not supernatural or creatures of magic) per level of experience for 1 hour per level.

Water to Acid-can turn a up to 10 gallons per level of experience into a very corrosive acid. Acid does 4D6 S.D.C. per splash, or at the cost of an addition 15 p.p.e. can be made to cause M.D. (3D6+3).

Rend Spirit-the spell caster’s arms glow with a ghastly yellow aura. Once cast, this spell allows the caster to slam his arm into and through the target. Once penetrated, the caster causes unspeakable pain to shoot throughout the victim, stunning him and incapacitating the opponent. Must have the spell ghost hand first. (the advantage of this spell over the agony spell is that all living creatures are -4 to save)

Ghost Hand-Allow the caster to move his arm through a solid object to grab whatever is on the inside. The object penetrated cannot be magical.

Mage Reaper-Summons a large green energy-sycthe that swings once at an opposing spell caster. If a successful hit is made, the targeted caster loses 4d6+10 p.p.e. (+1D6 per level of experience).

Repel Living-A field of yellowish-green energy bursts forth from the caster, forcing all living creatures (who fail their save) back at a speed of 40 beyond the radius of the spell.


Soul rip-a powerful spell that works like the rune ability to suck souls. The mage plunges his ghostly hand into the victim, attempting to tear the victims spirit away (can be used for various applications).

Bury-This ability allows the caster to instantly send the victim 1D4 (+1 foot per level up to neck level) into the ground. The spell only works on natural terrain (nothing man made like brick or concrete). The terrain must not be solid (like rock).

Fling bone-With a flick of his wrist, the Necromancer summons a dagger-like bone. It can be thrown with deadly accuracy and can even be empowered with poison. Taking one action to throw does 1D6+1 S.D.C., taking two actions does 2D4+4 M.D.C. This spell can be cast twice to summon one bone in each hand, but can only be used if the Necromancer has paired weapons. Range for a level 1 throw is 250ft, range on level 2 throw is 500 (goes up 100 per level).

Undeath-A potent talent that imparts the living with undead attributes. (like regeneration and limited invulnerability. The necromancer often gives such abilities to others in a false promise of power)

Death Battery-this spell allows the caster to construct a P.P.E. battery from the corpse of a fallen foe. The head of the slain victim serves as a vessel to hold the mystic energies (P.P.E). The floating skull accompanies the mage for as long as the duration of the spell. (a gruesome low-powered version of the energy sphere spell)

Template Skeleton-A very useful and rare skill that infuses skeletons with greater combat ability. Speed: gives the skeleton 2x att. per melee, plus 80 to speed, and +2 strike-parry-dodge…Defense: gives the skeleton x3 S.D.C.(which converts to M.D.C.), +1 parry, etc.

Whirling Haunt-A 3’ wide x 10’ (+5’ per level) greenish whirling mist composed of spirits is summoned before the cast. The strange manifestation moves at a spd of 15 mph (+1 mph per level) at victims. This creation slowly saps the life-force of those within it’s borders (reducing HP/S.D.C./M.D.C. by 4D6 per round)

Breathless-the caster inhales deeply stealing the breath of all creatures within a 10’ diameter (+5’ per level). Those inside environmental armor (or don’t need to breath) are immune to the effects of this spell.

Decompose-Rapidly decomposes organic materials.

Call Death serpent-Summons a towering decomposed snake-like monster to aid the caster. This necromantic creation is a corpse that is littered with pieces of dead flesh that cling lifelessly to it’s spinal frame. The head is a skinless skull of a massive viper with fangs that reach lengths up on 2 ½ ft. It towers 30ft + 10ft per level of experience. Has 100 M.D.C. plus 15 per level, and has a number of attacks that equal (3) plus 1 every (3) levels of experience. It can bite for 3D6+2 per level, and grapple an opponent in its mouth (P.S. equal to 26+1 every level supernatural, lifting capacity is triple strength!) It is +2 to strike with no dodge or parry ability. One additional creature can be summoned at levels 6 and 12.

Spit Acid-This grisly ability allows the caster to cough acid from his stomach and whirl it at his enemies. The spitting range is 35ft. +5ft per level. Damage is only 2D6, but it will burn for 1D6 melee rounds unless washed off (dealing an additional 1D6 per round). The acid can also be used in a more corrosive form by dripping it slowly out of the mouth (damage is 4D6+2 per level).

Detonating skeleton-Well, this causes one of the animated minions of the necromancer to begin glowing yellow-orange, and triples the speed of the skeleton. It will explode once it reaches it’s target. Dealing 3D4 (+1D4 per level) to a 5ft radius (+2ft per level). This is fragmentation/explosive damage, so those impervious to energy take full damage. Double the knock-down penalty. This spell can also be used as a trap, placing the remains of the skeleton upon the ground, until anything crosses them. Same damage, ½ radius of effect.

Reaper’s Cloak-A wispy cloak (color is the caster’s choosing) that sprouts from the neck area and quickly covers all but the head in a magical cloth. Grants the following abilities to the caster: Hover up to 30ft. high at a speed of 25, does not cast a shadow (plus 25% to prowl or base skill of 50%),

Chains of Damnation-Precluding this spell is an unnerving whisper heard by all within 100ft of the caster. Shortly following that, grayish-brown rusted chains burst from the ground below the target and attempt to entangle him. (Roll to dodge 19 or higher) Should the target fail to dodge, then he must make another save vs. magic (or be blinded). If the target fails they will fall to their knees, completely restrained. (This spell can also be used to capture cyborgs, robots, small to medium sized vehicles, and other inanimates)

Ghost Form-The caster transforms into an ethereal creature now vulnerable to the same abilities as true spirits (or entities). The caster now has a flight speed of 100 +10 per level, and can move through any solid object (not magical barriers or protection circles). The caster will also be able to see other spirits and communicate with them.

Passage of Nis-this spell summons forth a page from the writings of the ancient Necromancer Nis Drinmoore. (gives the caster access to random shadow oriented spells)

Harness the Night (to be determined)

Omegan Cha’s Horn (to be determined)

[Nekira Sudacne]

[quote="Semisonic9"]Yeah, I'll have to borrow a book to check those out. Odd that it wasn't reprinted in Dark Conversions, when so much else was!

Digging a bit further, one thing I'll say is that it doesn't appear the Necromancer spell levels were adjusted with RUEs changes in mind. Back then, most spells cost 2 actions, so spell level was largely irrelevant. [quote]

Uhhh...WTH you talking about? pre-RUE, a level 6-11 spell took ALL your attacks that melee...period. 12-15 took TWO FULL MELEEs to cast. RUE brought them all down...

[Damian Magecraft]

I allow access to the Shadow and Spectral Magic form Library of Bletherad in addtion to the Bone magic For necromancers....this seems to "toughen" them up quite nicely...
and if you want to truely make him a twisted bastich try adding in Fleshsculpting...(one of the most vile and difficult opponents my players have ever faced)

[Nekira Sudacne]

And golly-gee-willickers, if you reasonably assume the most commonly cast spells are levels 1-6, my statement makes perfect sense! 2-3 attacks was precisely 1/2 a melee in those days for most characters.

Only if one assumes that. In my experiance, however, that's not so much the case, most people tried for the mid level spells.

And my point was, you didn't seem to have a point, how could they have been no re-adjusted when RUE spellcasting times are even better?

[Ahulane]

Personally I think Necromancers have a great balance at the moment, yes it would be nice if there were a bit more spells but the ones that are there are just fine...I mean, how cool is Transfer Life Force + Zombie + Necromance has sniper and WP: E-Rifle @ high levels? spell lasts for 24 hrs a level...transfer yourself into a zombie, walk your ass like a mile or so away from your home...baddies come in to kill you...bam! dead from unknown sniper...finally discover sniper is a zombie...zombie dies...spirit is trasnferred back to your body...prepare defenses. Get some Diabolism and trap the hell out of your zombies and animated dead or just buff them with death bolt.

Hell if your complaining about your Necro not being able to do anything melee wise, have them be a Murder Mage whos not a total psychopath and give him a hearty spell list, now your a power house in melee plus you have an arsenal of spells at your disposal...don't like the direct approach...be a Cursebringer and grab a **** of spoiling spells and go take a small town hostage with your Necro-Tech Technowizard buddy who has an army of self animating skeletons with deathbolt cannons built into their chest that do 5d6 damage direct to HP...he's the muscle your the brains. Or ya grab some shadow magic or flesh sculpting magic, maybe some summoning...regardless...if played right a necromancer is a caster to be feared.

Syndicate your list of spells I thought was pretty sweet, alot of things in there that are really cool, but alot of the spells you mentioned would be at least 8th level if not higher easy...

[Syndicate]

Syndicate, the problem with home-brew spells is that they tend to be munchy and over-powered. If you want Necromantic-themed spells, I suggest you adapt existing, balanced spells as-needed. It's the approach that has the least chance of unbalancing your game. Fireblast could easily become Bone Blast (or Bone Spear, for a Diablo 2 reference!), Spinning Blades becomes Spinning Bones, Call Lightning could become Hellfire (fire attack, comes from the ground instead of the sky, works exactly as Call Lightning as far as range/duration/damage/PPE cost), etc, etc.

It's been my experience that player-created spells tend to ignore several self-imposed rules that Rifts writers use in spell creation to maintain balance. I suspect this would be the case here as well. As of the BoM and RUE, most Rifts magic has been play-tested to hell and back. CoA, Invulnerability, and some Tattoo magic are a few identified possible problem areas, but other than that, I think they've done a pretty good job.

Of course, if you're the one wanting your game unbalanced, by all means, introduce whatever spells you want. At that point, though, games usually spiral out of control until eventually one power-gamer gets approval of an "I win" button and people either start over or get bored.

I like some of your spells. Some are munchy in obvious ways, and some will probably be munchier in application. Many seem to take several existing spells and cram them together, which is troubling. Changing the "theme" of existing spells is fine. Mish-mashing several spells together without a counter balance is not called "creating new magic", it's called "munching out my Necro".

Long story short: If your spells were a Rifter article, I would promptly ignore them and move on. No offense, but I simply don't see the need for this approach.

~Semi

Did you just use "balance" in reference to this system?!?...
...and magic...

You're just pull'n my rune sword eh?!?...

You're such a kidder!!!...

[Syndicate]

Personally I think Necromancers have a great balance at the moment, yes it would be nice if there were a bit more spells but the ones that are there are just fine...I mean, how cool is Transfer Life Force + Zombie + Necromance has sniper and WP: E-Rifle @ high levels? spell lasts for 24 hrs a level...transfer yourself into a zombie, walk your ass like a mile or so away from your home...baddies come in to kill you...bam! dead from unknown sniper...finally discover sniper is a zombie...zombie dies...spirit is trasnferred back to your body...prepare defenses. Get some Diabolism and trap the hell out of your zombies and animated dead or just buff them with death bolt.

Hell if your complaining about your Necro not being able to do anything melee wise, have them be a Murder Mage whos not a total psychopath and give him a hearty spell list, now your a power house in melee plus you have an arsenal of spells at your disposal...don't like the direct approach...be a Cursebringer and grab a ****-ton of spoiling spells and go take a small town hostage with your Necro-Tech Technowizard buddy who has an army of self animating skeletons with deathbolt cannons built into their chest that do 5d6 damage direct to HP...he's the muscle your the brains. Or ya grab some shadow magic or flesh sculpting magic, maybe some summoning...regardless...if played right a necromancer is a caster to be feared.

Syndicate your list of spells I thought was pretty sweet, alot of things in there that are really cool, but alot of the spells you mentioned would be at least 8th level if not higher easy...

Of course, a high level necromancer should be just as feared as a high level LLW.

Why would a Necromancer have the sniper skill?!?

Yes it's cool, but as a spell caster, he shouldn't have you rely on modern weapons (or armor) to eliminate his opponents (which is the second...perhaps third time someone has suggested in one way or another that they do).

As creative as you all are with your attempts to piece together an old 57 chevy with existing parts, I believe it an equally brilliant idea to simply build a new one. Sure bugs have to be worked out of ANY prototype...but that's half the fun.

[Ahulane]

Why would a Necromancer have the sniper skill?!?

why wouldn't he?

Yes it's cool, but as a spell caster, he shouldn't have you rely on modern weapons (or armor) to eliminate his opponents (which is the second...perhaps third time someone has suggested in one way or another that they do).

Your right that they shouldn't have to rely on modern weapons over their own spell casting skills...but it doesn't mean they can't use them from time to time. A truely evil being with 1/2 a brain will realize that he may need some sort of trump card to help him out when all other common means have been exausted.

Properly set up, Necros are more than munchy enough. That's one reason they're supposed to be NPC only. Your blatant attempts to further munch (what I can only guess is a player character) are transparent and ill-concieved. Why is it the guys without imagination are always the ones trying to "invent" their own crap in-game?

They are fairly strong at high levels but alot of their ability to do well requires a good amount of prep time, part of the reason why if you read the OCC descriptions they usually mention that they typically hold entire towns for ransom in order to perform their dark magic. Also they aren't an NPC class because of their strength their an NPC class because they are evil bastards...also because they are psychotics and obsessed with death. IMO if you play a necromancer your going to be doing alot more RPing than combat in the long run...alot more, the most you'd probably do for combat would be "I have my legion of zombies and mummies and animated dead attack my opponent while I lock myself in a room till their dead and get back to my work."

Hey if people want to invent stuff they certainly can...but if they want to make it into a rifter submission or what have you, ya they need to actually put some effort into what they are trying to offer as diversity. The Rifter 8 Necro varients I think are perfect additions...though not really anything different just more Necromancers with heavy specialization in a particular field of their dark magic.

Yes Syndicates spells are a little on the munchkin side, but given a little more time I'm sure he'd be able to give some high quality spells with the list that he's already generated...they just need a little more fleshing out and some balancing. Personally though I just can't get enough of the vampire fangs spell he made...really strong but its just a wonderful idea...I mean what would happen if you did augment yourself with a pair of vamp fangs? (probably just give you bite damage..eventhough if you augment with a dragons hand you get some MDC, supernatural PS and claw damage...why couldn't fangs add bite damage and with a poison attack and some enhance PS).

[Syndicate]

Thanks for your support (to some degree) Ahulane. I’ll consider the last of your comment to be a chip made against a wall of blind acceptance.

Rehash time yet again. What I propose is not simply to make my “naked mage” a combat monster, or to over “munchkinize” this “perfect” system some so short-sightly follow. It is simply to expand your options with this particular spell-casting class. One can only build so much with just nails, wood, and a stack of bricks. True, a competent and creative architect would do wonders with the materials at hand, but…let’s add a few well made planks, some shaped ceramic tiles, a little in-door plumbing, and Wa-LA!!! You have a bigger, better, more comfortable home. Having more to work with gives the GM and his/her players more options. Why do you think new books even come out?!? Can you really enjoy Rifts with JUST the RUE/Main book? Sure some could, but I bet it’d get rather old fairly quick. THAT’S why new spells and ideas spawned the creation of the Rifter, that’s why rules exist (in Nightbane) to create new spells. Change and creativity build a better world (or house as it would be). Admittingly, I am unsatisfied with the combat capabilities of a Necromancer, and YES I would indeed enjoy a lot more “kick” to some butt when it comes to handling players (I GM mostly).

Storyline (as well as combat orientation) was considered in the creation of a few of those spells I wizzed-up. “Flesh wrap”, imagine the trouble that could be caused when a necromancer strolls into town with a couple of dazed-looking, slow-walking, vagabonds sitting down for a nice drink at the local bar. When a bar-fight finally breaks-out (because one eventually will) patrons are shocked to see the flesh peel away from a person who now looks half-dead (players to the rescue). Sure an illusion spell could be used in much the same way…but this is just cooler (to me). Not only that, but the Necromancer could basically use the natural ability of a Rawhead (dark conversions pg. 60), and could peel the flesh off a fresh corpse in order to impersonate that person (gruesome yet effective…yes…the flesh wrap spell requires fresh flesh to be applied to a creature). Rawhead are undead creatures, Necromancers have magic based on death…see a connection there?!?

Second page of this thread, and 9 posts down, second paragraph from the bottom… “I like some of your spells.” ~Semi

Do you know WHY you liked some of them?!? Because they are different and slightly reasonable for that class. We all like a bit more spice in the games we play, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I realize that not everyone can even afford all the books (I personally have a very huge collection of palladium stuff). Some of us are forced to use the limited resources we have (I’m FAR from rich), and that in-turn has probably lead to some really cool and inventive role-play. But it WILL get old…trust me.

P.S….The wall of B.A. just took another 25 M.D.C. (refer to the top of this post)

[Ahulane]

So? When compared to a summoner the amount of prep a necromancer needs to do looks minimal. Hell, atleast the necromancer can fire off a few spells to defend itself with. Summoners either need enough time to create a circle or two or they rely on whatever forces they've summoned.

Yes the prep time for a necromancer compared to a summoner is very little, I won't argue that it isn't because it is. I was just saying that for a necromancer (topic of discussion), their OCC requires a ton of prep time compared to more common magic OCCs like LLW, Wizard etc. Summoner, Diabolist and Necromancer are probably the highest prep time OCC's in Rifts imo...but that doesn't include the crafters like the Mystic Kuznya and such...

Having more to work with gives the GM and his/her players more options. Why do you think new books even come out?!?

True, thats why I said, given time you would be able to bring forth some high quality spells, also why I like some of the spells you submitted in your post. The fact that they were all just basic rundowns of what you had in mind is probably what set Semisonic9 off....though thats just my guess anyways...

[Prince Artemis]

To those that say the necromancer is too weak, here's a few notes for you:

Death bolt: Don't really need to go into detail on a spell that will kill most people in two hits no matter what armor their wearing.

Transfer life essence: Says that a necromancer can even transfer his soul into a puppet. This means that it can be transfered into an inanimate object. No size limits were given. I suggest not bringing PAs and Robots to a necro fight.

Animate Dead: Unless you blow them completely apart, there's nothing that says he can't just reanimate them again, and again, and again.....

[Syndicate]

Sounds like a plan, Syndicate. Good luck with it.

For necromancers, however, I'd look at more than things that will allow them to strengthen their undead and animated hordes.

*How about spells which allow them to draw more powers out of a corpse that they've bonded to? Like that T-man's arm you've got? Why not bond to it and be able to use the Tattoos (for an ungodly price... spell cost + twice tattoo cost, since they're not T-men).

*How about more forms of created undead... we've got Mummies and Zombies, but what other forms of necromantic minions can be created?

*On the horde-strengthening front, how about a spell to provide a small MDC to a large number of corpses? A Necromancer would specifically look at something allowing 4 corpses per level, for 10 minutes per level, because that's how long and how many simple animated dead they have. If they can give 20 MDC to every corpse in their army for that amount of time, then they'll survive two or three hits from the average rifle, making them more valuable as fodder.

Sorry, this was a great idea that I never really got around to responding. In my spell list is a power called "template dead(or undead)". This power was meant to do just what your first suggestion mentioned. The rest of your ideas are reasonable, and I will take them into consideration should I expand further on my spell list.

Thanks

[Syndicate]

Blah blah blah. Get a grip, dude. You're not a "rebel freedom fighter" tearing down the "walls of blind acceptance", you're a little munchy dude trying (and failing) to argue for enhancements to an already powerfull class.

Experience has taught me there's nothing more useless than trying to convince something to stop being what it is. It's become clear to me you're a munchkin, and I'm going to stop arguing with you. Play however you want, man, just don't ask us to join you in your perspective. I'm just glad there aren't any guys like you in any of my games.

“I like some of your spells.” ~Semi

Do you know WHY you liked some of them?!? Because they are different and slightly reasonable for that class.

Actually, I just threw that in because I'm accused of being too harsh in my criticism from time to time.

I have trouble concealing my displeasure with rampant idiocy. Crybabies go whining to moderators if they don't like what they hear, so I try to "soften" my approach a bit.

Best of luck with your game there, bro!

~Semi

[MODERATED]

Gaius

[Syndicate]

To those that say the necromancer is too weak, here's a few notes for you:

Death bolt: Don't really need to go into detail on a spell that will kill most people in two hits no matter what armor their wearing.

Transfer life essence: Says that a necromancer can even transfer his soul into a puppet. This means that it can be transfered into an inanimate object. No size limits were given. I suggest not bringing PAs and Robots to a necro fight.

Animate Dead: Unless you blow them completely apart, there's nothing that says he can't just reanimate them again, and again, and again.....

Death bolt is a fairly potent spell (although a bit costly....30 p.p.e.). It is really the only ranged attack/damaging spell listed under Necromancy. I believe that is a problem.

Transfer life force is limited the corpses and other animated dead (pg. 196 BoM) and used LIKE a robot. This spell is also expensive and not suited for anything (really) other than spying. When used under the right conditions it could be a particularly effective spell. Not really suitable under alot of normal circumstances.

With the new massive damage rules aside, most things in Rifts WILL be blown completely apart (especially S.D.C. bodies and other light M.D.C. structures)

I did kind-of forget to mention that I guess. I am speaking exclusively of Rifts Necromancers.

[Syndicate]

Hmmmmm


As you're necromancer, I could summon a green, burning skull head and inflict some damage upon mine enemies.

As a necromancer from the books, I could kidnap the child of mine enemy, summon 4 vampires, give the child to the vamps, drain off the PPE when they kill it and use the PPE to summon a Maggot, who then destroys the town of my enemy along with the vampires.


Gee, I'll take option number two, Bob.

This redundancy is killing me...

Thanks for reading the second spell I posted, commenting on it (and singling the attack spell out over something with more substance, or even creating one of your own).

Yes...Necromancers CAN in-fact (as NUMEROUS others have posted) summon "things" and use them to fight. That's great that you understand this. I applaud your originality and heroic pioneering towards a NEW more innovative Necromancer. Please stand over here (with the others who so repetendedly mentioned) and bask in the glory of mundaneness.

...*sigh*...I appologize...I've got sand in some rather uncomfortable places after an earlier tussel in the "box" previously...

[Syndicate]

Here, I just happen to have a couple of books handy that have important "words" written on and in them.

Rifts Adventure Guide, Rifter #25 and #28, Dimension book 7, and sourcebook Mercenary Adventures. On the back of the books...in english..."...endless possiblities limited only by the imagination!"

Endless walking hordes and possiblities are two totally different concepts.

I can only guess that this lack of direction and imagination is stemming from a lack of usage of this O.C.C. (maybe used once or twice a LONG time ago). Why? Because at some point, you realized they are effectively useless without a graveyard nearby. Think the players in your game (or you if you are one) can eliminate a Necromancer quickly? If they don't have some really cool and powerful body parts to bond with, or have crap-loads of P.P.E. to spare (summoning isn't cheap people....150-300 p.p.e) they're gonna be doing alot of running (I like to think most Necro-NPCs have a high spd. attribute).

Reality check number two...animated dead and mummies cannot use modern weapons! With the Dark conversion book, spell magic zombies are the way to go, but it will take a while.

It may be a sad realization, but I think Ley line walkers may make better Necromancers than...well...necromancers (A true necromancer doesn't even have access to the spell summon and control entities...yes they can enslave, but not summon. That is truely a powerful spell if used correctly)

[Damian Magecraft]

Here, I just happen to have a couple of books handy that have important "words" written on and in them.

Rifts Adventure Guide, Rifter #25 and #28, Dimension book 7, and sourcebook Mercenary Adventures. On the back of the books...in english..."...endless possiblities limited only by the imagination!"

Endless walking hordes and possiblities are two totally different concepts.

I can only guess that this lack of direction and imagination is stemming from a lack of usage of this O.C.C. (maybe used once or twice a LONG time ago). Why? Because at some point, you realized they are effectively useless without a graveyard nearby. Think the players in your game (or you if you are one) can eliminate a Necromancer quickly? If they don't have some really cool and powerful body parts to bond with, or have crap-loads of P.P.E. to spare (summoning isn't cheap people....150-300 p.p.e) they're gonna be doing alot of running (I like to think most Necro-NPCs have a high spd. attribute).

Reality check number two...animated dead and mummies cannot use modern weapons! With the Dark conversion book, spell magic zombies are the way to go, but it will take a while.

It may be a sad realization, but I think Ley line walkers may make better Necromancers than...well...necromancers (A true necromancer doesn't even have access to the spell summon and control entities...yes they can enslave, but not summon. That is truely a powerful spell if used correctly)

Dude chill a bit...
if you think the necro is weak then buff him...just dont expect everyone to think like you or for that matter play like you...
the worst villan i got in my game is a necro...the players hate it every time he shows up cause generally it means they are gonna need a snot load of new equipment and possibly lose at least 1 or 2 PCs in the mix if they dont work as a team....heck if they work as a team he is still gonna mess up their day....and oddly enough I have never had to add more than the fleshsculpting and spirit spells to his arsenal of spells...and no he dosent use the endless hordes of walking dead to make their day suck...

[Gaius]

When the first report came in regarding this thread, I moderated the post in question and then saw that the whole thread had taken a nose dive. Therefore, I'm locking this thread and telling the lot of you to act more appropriately in the future.

Gaius

[Gaius]

When the first report came in regarding this thread, I moderated the post in question and then saw that the whole thread had taken a nose dive. Therefore, I'm locking this thread and telling the lot of you to act more appropriately in the future.

Gaius