Do you support the Coalition? Come vote.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

As evil as Prosek is, He is still more trust worthy then most of the Politicians in Washington D.C..


I'm sure you could stop an army of demons with talk of peace and love and understanding and everyone is equal speech and hand them flowers. Then after the demons stop laughing at you and/or eat you, kill you , or just grind you in into a red spot.

[Ravenwing]

"Meddle not in the affairs of demons, for your are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup."

[Ravenwing]

"Meddle not in the affairs of demons, for your are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup."

Hippie McChunklets with your choice of Liver, Eye Ball or Spleen Squeezins for dipping

No sweet and sour sauce ? Man them demons are missing out.

[Colt47]

I don't personally like the Coalition states, but it's not like I'm going to kill the guys in black armor for doing a good job and keeping supernatural menaces out of the area. I mean, even my super advanced robot is part of the Coalition Cyborg division! However, I'm more of a fan of the Tundra Rangers. They don't have giant robots, they just have hover cycles that are actually giant missiles. Plus, they don't have the whole Nazi regime going and they are fighting to keep humanity alive in a much better light. Now that I think about it, the human powers in North America that I like, top being the one I like the most, bottom being the least favorite:

1. Tundra Rangers
2. Native Americans
3. Coalition States
4. Um... The pecos BANDITS! Go go bandito!

[Blight]

..snip.. Now that I think about it, the human powers in North America that I like, top being the one I like the most, bottom being the least favorite: ....snip...

4. Um... The pecos BANDITS! Go go bandito!

The way i read it most the bandits are non-human...

[Colt47]

I like to think of them as a human power block since they act pretty much like the bad boys of the new west.

[Blight]

..snip..I don't see the Coalition as Humanity's best or last hope. I don't think they're even humanity's best hope in North America, let alone the entire world. ....
Heck, even in North America, there are other's I would be looking to, instead of those twisted, evil Coalition murderers. I don't see it in any way, shape or form as a choice of 'serve demon' or 'serve Emperor Prosek'. There are MANY other options.

Name two

There are plenty of places to live out west that are doing just fine without having to murder other non-human victims of the Rifts. Plenty of places that aren't so short-sighted that they refuse to make use of the strengths of magic to help fight off the demonic invaders. There's a lot of places in North America that humans can live and prosper in besides the Coalition States or Lazlo. Plenty of places that aren't ruled by dragons or other superior beings, so not wanting to be lorded over by a dragon is a ****-poor excuse to sign yerself up to be lorded over by Empy Prosek and carry out his evil missions of murder.

again Name two

If *I* had to choose what the best chances of my SODIC ass would be if I was on Rifts, it sure as hell wouldn't be the CS. I'd find a more sensible and non-evil kingdom that humans can make use of both magic and technology and alliances with other non-diabolic non-humans. There's well over a dozen to choose from in North America alone, but NGR or Japan would be great places to live too. I wouldn't support the CS, but would try to stay out of their way.

again name any other North America community that has any real chance to survive

I didn't vote that way, though, because I voted how I would when playing the Rifts game. My characters don't usually support the CS, and will definitely kill any CS people they see commiting evil. Many of the deebee characters I've played even go looking for excuses to fight against the CS army, and will attack them whether they saw the individual unit doing ill things or not. Bad experiences at the hands of the CS and all that.

And by the underlined action you prove them right

So I voted down with the evil Coalition scumbags. They're as bad as the demons, and both will get gunned down if I see 'em.

Really so in your game the CS eats children during the full moon for that extra boost of PPE... WOW they really are bad

[dark brandon]

Colorado Baronies. Dweomer. New Lazlo. Kingsdale.

New Kenora would have been alright, before the CS conquered and enslaved them.

Dozens of smaller communities, like Magestar and other small towns like that. Hell, I'd rather live in Perez than a CS state. Even with the Black Market villains that operate there, the place has nothing on the CS for evil. It's leaders also aren't genocidal megalomaniac madmen.

I could name even more. But you just wanted two.

None of those nations can stand up to the might of the CS. When (not if) CS begins to expand, all those nations are probably gonna fall.

Dweomer. Colorado Baronies. Arzno. New Lazlo. Lazlo. Kingsdale.
That's a top five list.

As stated in SoT, Lazlo did not enter the war with CS because even with the combined might of Lazlo and tolkeen, they said they knew they had no chance to survive.

Dweomer is a hidden nation, but it is still rather small when compared to a monster like CS. Lazlo and New lazlo will both fall if they stand up to CS when CS attacks, simply because Lazlo will have to fight a two front war (as stated in RUE Quebec doesn't attack lazlo because they don't think they can beat them. If CS initiates an attack then there is in all likely hood going to be an attack on lazlo by quebec as well).

The CS do not eat children in my game, no. They do what the books say they do.

Saying that the Coaltion is not bad or evil on the basis that they don't eat children during magic rituals is complete and utter hogwash. You are discounting bookfuls of data detailing the many evil things the CS does. That the CS commits evil cannot be disputed. They have clearly wiped out as many villages of innocents (some deebee, some human) as rampaging demons have. They too torture prisoners, many CS soldiers even ENJOY it just like demons do.


Have you read the Rifts main books and worldbooks any time recently, or has it been 10 years?

The difference being that not everyone in the CS is evil. That's like saying every solder who was in Germany during 1940's were evil. The difference between humans and demons is that humans can range from very good to very evil where as demons are evil to the core. All of them.. You are also discounting bookfuls of data detailing that many CS soldiers are good men and women who only want to protect their loved ones.

[Colt47]

Yeah, arguably while Kevin tried to make a moral dilemma with the CS being humans and not all of the people in the regime are evil, it's not about if the individual is evil, it is about the whole organization as a unit and empire. The goals of the CS are world conquest and enslavement. I find it laughable that they think they can take over the continent without the use of ALL types of resources available. They have magic and psychic detectors, but they only use psychics and do not even attempt to use magic since it is viewed as a evil and corrupting thing. Plus, them pushing into Tolkien really polarized the views on the CS. While they were once a gray area, now they are definitely conquerers.

If the CS wanted to have a united front against them they definitely got it. Native Americans are not going to stand around and let their new lands get taken from them again. The Tundra rangers clearly do not support the idea of annihilating other intelligent beings and would fight. Even the council at Lazlo can't really ignore the CS anymore, they took tolkien and they definitely want to destroy Lazlo, kingsdale, and other independent kingdoms that go against their ideology.

[Blight]

Colorado Baronies. has no real power and are buffered and going to be absorbed by the cs Dweomer. going to be fodder for the federation of magic New Lazlo. pawns of lazlo and fodder for the Xititics (sp?) Kingsdale. um over ran by bug aliens and almost decimated during the the juicer uprising

New Kenora would have been alright, before the CS conquered and enslaved them. New Kenora was making and selling arms to the CS's adversaries..The were doomed the moment the sold mercs tanks

..snip..Hell, I'd rather live in Perez than a CS state. Even with the Black Market villains that operate there, the place has nothing on the CS for evil. It's leaders also aren't genocidal megalomaniac madmen.
Nope but if you don't like what they do the will kill you, but your right they are not aren't genocidal megalomaniac madmen. They are evil thieves murders, drug dealers and slavers.

I could name even more. But you just wanted two.
and boy did you pick good ones

The CS do not eat children in my game, no. They do what the books say they do.

Saying that the Coalition is not bad or evil on the basis that they don't eat children during magic rituals is complete and utter hogwash. You are discounting bookfuls of data detailing the many evil things the CS does. That the CS commits evil cannot be disputed. They have clearly wiped out as many villages of innocents (some dee bees, some human) as rampaging demons have. They too torture prisoners, many CS soldiers even ENJOY it just like demons do.
i never said they were not evil they do evil things I just said up to this point the are the best chance for human survival..I haven't read revised SB1 that might change things...


Have you read the Rifts main books and world books any time recently, or has it been 10 years?

Nope i pull this stuff from the ether with my magic powers...Listen I know the the idea that the CS are probably the best chance for humanity is distasteful. I know gamers or a lot of them like to play nonhuman either for the power or just to step out of the own lives. I also know that people want to believe that the good guy always win... But the good guys don't always win the strong do....and the strong aren't always good...the rifts world is stacked against humanity...For it to survive bad thing are going to have to happen...

[dark brandon]

Alejandro wrote:

Alistair Dunscon is the leader of the Federation of Magic and is a human...

The FoM is definitely NOT considered a human power bloc.

Whom defined it as a non-human power block? According to the fluff I read, the C.S. it is a mob of insane daemon worshippers who would sacrifice their own children for power, & traitors to the human species. They could not be traitors if they were not human to begin with, so while they are hopelessly corrupted, they are a hopelessly corrupted human regime.

Dunscon is not human. He sold his soul to be something more powerful.

[dark brandon]

Yeah, arguably while Kevin tried to make a moral dilemma with the CS being humans and not all of the people in the regime are evil, it's not about if the individual is evil, it is about the whole organization as a unit and empire. The goals of the CS are world conquest and enslavement. I find it laughable that they think they can take over the continent without the use of ALL types of resources available. They have magic and psychic detectors, but they only use psychics and do not even attempt to use magic since it is viewed as a evil and corrupting thing. Plus, them pushing into Tolkien really polarized the views on the CS. While they were once a gray area, now they are definitely conquerers.

It's interesting to note that one reason they don't believe in using magic is cause it causes a person to become corrupt by demons. As SoT showed, even a once good nation, having the power of magic will turn to demons if pushed into a corner.

[dark brandon]

This thread is about if you support the Coalition or not, and why, is it not? I was not aware we were discussing who could beat who in a war.

This is true. I was remarking to the comment they are the best hope for humanity. As such, I was commenting on that since they lack any real way to defend themselves against the CS, they are not "best".

If the people of the Coalition lose their humanity as many in the Federation of Magic have, by going down similar paths, then I don't see them as a good hope for humanity. I see that as the fate we dearly want to avoid. I guess I must have things in common with folk like Erin Tarn or Lord Coake or something, as I happen to agree with them on this topic. *scratches head*

CS vs FoM: Humans in the FoM tend to sell their souls. Unlike the CS, where a few generations can make a world of difference in the actions and the state of mind of the nation, FoM forsakes their humanity. If my Grand-father was hitler, that by no means means I am going to be as evil as him. In FoM, one sells their very soul. It's not quite the same.

Some of you can live with supporting and joining the evil empire, and still be good people. Good for you. I would not be cool with that, and would put my hopes for humanity in one of several other powerful nations that are just as capable of fighting off demonic invaders and xicitic as the CS is, who aren't afraid to use magic as well as technology, and don't have bigotted views or kill people just for being different.

few nations have the strenght and standing that CS does. CS doesn't kill people for being different, they kill Dbees, and dbees arn't people.

CS is against the usage of magic, but as shown by the SoT (as well as the first war that created the CS anti-magic views) Nations that have magic tend to congragate with Demons. Even a good nation (What tolkeen was) will turn to demons in a pinch. CS completely removes this option, to keep themselves from every having to worry about turning to such true evil.

[dark brandon]

Good point. I guess I wasn't really taking that into account. But at least one of the places I mentioned as being a better places in NA for me to place my hope for humanity than the CS, can defend themselves against the CS. The CS still isn't 100% certain the place is real, and it says in FoM that it'll take them decades just to find it. Assuming they first defeat Dunscon and the rest of the True Federation first, who definitely wouldn't sit idly by as they did with Tolkeen if the CS moved full armies into the Magic Zone itself to go after Dweomer.

The true federation wouldn't do anything to help Dweomer, as stated in FoM, dunscon wants them dead, but doesn't believe he has the power to take them down. If CS finds and threatens the place, I doubt dunscon would be anything but delighted.

Not everyone in the Federation of Magic has sold their souls. Their leaders, like Dunscon himself, certainly have.

FoM (such as the city of brass) is dominated predominantly by Demons and monsters, and only evil human beings. Good human beings are not only a minority, but a target for sacrifice.

Not every nation that uses magic congregates with demons. It's by no means a requirement, and the books have quite a few examples of states that don't consort with demons and their ilk. No demons helping the techno-wizards of Colorado, iirc. I doubt Lazlo would turn to them in a pinch. Isn't that the main reason why they didn't help Tolkeen against the CS, because they would not consort with demons and condone unleashing other evil monsters?

No, the point was that any nation who had the potential to use demons would use them if they are in a failing war, not nessissarily they would use demons to begin with (Much like Tolkeen was a good nation before the threat of the CS, but as the threat increased and Tolkeen realized it didn't stand a chance, decided to summon demons).

Lazlo stated the reason they didn't help tolkeen in the war was because even with Lazlo's help, tolkeen and lazlo didn't stand a chance of defeating CS and would simply bring heat onto Lazlo. It was the cyber-knights who warned against the usage of demons, but in the end, when pushed into a corner resorted to fighting along side demons. In otherwords, lazlo is either full of cowards or wise men. Opinions differ.

Other places, like Dweomer, do allow some demons to live there, but only if they obey the laws and rules and don't commit evil acts like murder, eating sentient beings, blood sacrifice etc. Only demons that can refrain from such demonic activity are permitted in the city.

55% human, 33% deebee, with a small percentage of powerful supernatural allies to protect you and teach you magic, a large magic using army that doesn't have to rely on demons and other evil things, nigh impossible for outsiders to find and attack, sounds like a good and safe place to live to me. It's where I'd likely go, if I had to stay in North America.

It's not that any one nation (except FoM) relies on demons, it's that they will turn to demons when pushed into a corner, and it's to be expected. CS knows this is true, and if they had the capabilities they too would have resorted to using demons in war. But they completely remove that option.

[dark brandon]

dark brandon wrote:

Dunscon is not human. He sold his soul to be something more powerful.

Well yes, WE know that, but do the people on rifts earth know it?
The C.S. certainly tell everyone that is true, but they say that about any being who is not a C.S. citizen, do they know or is it just a belief; & as the C.S. is seen as an evil/tyrannical nation, would anyone belive it?
Also as far as anyone else in the world is concerned the Federation of Magic is the same massive unified 'nation' it was before it the Lords of Magic broke away, & the Dunscons' are human. So What I said was factual from a certain point of view.

Well, anyone that would know dunscon knows he's no longer human or is even in his presence knows he's no longer human. I belive also anyone who knows the story of dunscon would realize he's not human as he's old that 100. Would some redneck bumkin still think he's not human...yeah. Would anyone who makes their roll of demons and monsters...no.

[Spinachcat]

Erin Tarn is a whiner. She meets a couple supposedly "nice" Dbees and suddenly forgets about the innumerable creatures of evil devouring humanity at every turn.

I'm with the CS. It's ain't human - frag it with plasma. It's our Earth and we are going to take it back one mile at a time. Is the government perfect? Nope, but they are human. In a fight for the survival of our species there is no time for such lofty concepts as good and evil. I'd be happy to strap on my SAMAS and herd the Dbees into the nearest rift.

It is interesting that blasting Dbees in Rifts is somehow different than blasting Bugs in Systems Failure.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I always found it odd Erin Tarn blasts prosek and the Coalition states meanwhile she is mute on free quebec who look and act more like the nasis the the CS

CS offer no formal education to the masses, but FQ does but it want in FQ teaches their people that is overlooked.

I'm not saying the CS is the greatest place in the world to be, far from it but giving the choice of Lazlo and their illusion of free being, but yet you don't see them going to altantis and voicing this, they rather send Erin Tarn out to do their dirty work against CS and prosek vs anything esle

When I was ready rifter #37 dealing with the devil's gate and one of the other worlds , the CRSG visited was a rifts earth where the CS was destoryed and the Cities were in ruins and demons ruled the world, this could have been an eye opener for the high command of the CS.

stand and fight and survive or give up and die and became a demon's snack.

[dark brandon]

Wait. Are we now again talking about good to evil ratio in the FoM? I thought we were talking about people who have actually sold their souls, which you pointed out is quite different. Though what you said is true nonetheless.

Not ratio, but where as humans can be diverse, demons are not. Demons are single minded monsters, as evident as how they are written. Humans alone have the capacity to change, where as demons, who live forever, will more than likely push any humans they are near down a path.

I think I'm going to have to fork out money and buy the stupid revised edition of FoM. *sigh* It seems the relationship between Alistair and his 'rivals/allies' the Lords of Magic must have changed from how it was originally written if he'd just sit back and do nothing while a CS army ravaged through the magic zone to attack a member of the True Federation. He may not like the Lords of Magic, but it said he had no problems working with them against the CS. I thought he planned to deal with them later, after they'd helped him defeat Chi Town. It also said he wouldn't betray the location of Dweomer. Has all that changed in the revised ed? Is there much else in the book that changed?

He won't betray the location, and nothing in the revised edition has changed. By going on what he said vs his action vs. his past action what he says and what he does is two different things. Such as he gave his word he would help tolkeen in their troubles, but didn't send help, and it was suggested it was because HE wanted to defeat CS, specifically proseks for the death of his father, just as he blames the lords of magic for the same. If CS were to attack Dweomer, based on his past actions, he will not help. Instead he will wait till the war is over, take any and all refugees to join his insain cause, just as he did with tolkeen, slowly building up an army who's single goal is revenge or worse.

[dark brandon]

There certainly is something to be said about putting humans back on top on the Earth. But the idea of waiting until the fighting is over to look inward and correct the government is a fantasy. If that should come to pass, it will be FAR too late. Especially when said gov't keeps it's people illiterate and fed a strict diet of only propaganda.

Lots of parallels to real life in fact. The slippery slope. Give up freedoms and it quickly becomes too late. The only way to do it is to have an ARMED, educated, free populace. But I digress.

But, where as human life has a limited duration, it can and will change. If CS wins earth, that doesn't mean the CS will stay on top forever. Humans and by that right the government will change. As shown in history there is no stable government, nothing lasts forever though may last a long time, but eventually every time comes.

[Nxla666]

I think I'm going to have to fork out money and buy the stupid revised edition of FoM. *sigh* It seems the relationship between Alistair and his 'rivals/allies' the Lords of Magic must have changed from how it was originally written if he'd just sit back and do nothing while a CS army ravaged through the magic zone to attack a member of the True Federation. He may not like the Lords of Magic, but it said he had no problems working with them against the CS. I thought he planned to deal with them later, after they'd helped him defeat Chi Town. It also said he wouldn't betray the location of Dweomer. Has all that changed in the revised ed? Is there much else in the book that changed?

He won't betray the location, and nothing in the revised edition has changed. By going on what he said vs his action vs. his past action what he says and what he does is two different things. Such as he gave his word he would help tolkeen in their troubles, but didn't send help, and it was suggested it was because HE wanted to defeat CS, specifically proseks for the death of his father, just as he blames the lords of magic for the same. If CS were to attack Dweomer, based on his past actions, he will not help. Instead he will wait till the war is over, take any and all refugees to join his insain cause, just as he did with tolkeen, slowly building up an army who's single goal is revenge or worse.

But in my copy of FoM the text explicitly states that Alistair is lying to the Tolkeen council, and it clearly lays out his plan to give them token aid, and then withhold his army at the crucial moment, so he can watch the CS take them down and then attack the CS army if it leaves itself open. It says that he blames Tolkeen for his fathers death. It says that all over my book, in multiple places. It says he feels the lords of magic are partially at fault too, because they could have done more, but they are not the ones he blames as the cause of his father's death and defeat--- that honour he gives to Tolkeen, who refused to aid the Federation in its time of need.
It says nothing explicitly laid out in a similar fashion that his dealings witht the Lords of Magic are the same as his plan/dealings with Tolkeen. There is nothign spelled out there saying he's lying with them too. What it says, is that if the CS attacked Dweomer, he would help. It says while he reviles and doesn't trust the Lords of Magic, he outright hates the Coalition, and he is willing and capable of working with them to see the CS defeated.

I'll reference the exact quotes and pages later, but meh, maybe not worth the effort. Really, what's the point? Obviously my copy of FoM is outdated, and my interpretation of what it clearly says is twisted and wrong, and clearly my opinions are invalid. I mean, big name fans on this board with 1000's of post counts are always right around here, even if the actual sourcebooks are offering contradictory information, aren't they?


u knock me off teh interwebz brandon yay

You made points, he countered them with his, now you pout and pull some lameass post count whining, whatever.

[dark brandon]

I'll reference the exact quotes and pages later, but meh, maybe not worth the effort. Really, what's the point? Obviously my copy of FoM is outdated, and my interpretation of what it clearly says is twisted and wrong, and clearly my opinions are invalid. I mean, big name fans on this board with 1000's of post counts are always right around here, even if the actual sourcebooks are offering contradictory information, aren't they?


u knock me off teh interwebz brandon yay

Here, I thought we were having and interesting discussion. Where the hell did these comments come from? "Big fans with 1000's of posts"? what does that have to do with anything we were discussing? Why even bring it up? And knocking you of the interwebz? I only do that to galactis kid....seriously man, if you're not up for having a discussion, well, that's cool, but geze, interentz serus busness.

[dark brandon]

FoM page 37

If the Coalition States should find and attack Dweomer, Lord Dunscon would send support, but raise a powerful force to 'avenge' the city and its Lords should it suffer great losses or fall. He would love nothing more than to enter the picture at the moment when things look worse (sp) for Dweomer and save the city.

He sees it as a great way to unite the splintered Federation behind him, and even better if it sees his rivals/foes weakened (as opposed to outright destroyed as he clearly wishes for both Tolkeen and the CS).

QUITE different to his stated plans on dealing with Tolkeen. Them, he planned to sit back and watch them be destroyed, as they did when they 'betrayed' his father so long ago by leaving the Federation.

If you wanted to continue the discussion, I believe that's where we were. I should probably bow out at this point though. I never came into this thread to engage in discussion or debate, just to vote, and state why I voted that way, as the OP requested.

Just to note, In the quote you mention, it also states "should it fall" he would love nothing more to come in to save the day. There's a good chance he would come in, or even wait till they've fallen to join in the fray, where as with tolkeen he compeltely avoided it.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

D-bees in the CS reminded me of some of the stuff in this thread

so arise

[Daniel Stoker]

I support the Coalitions right to arm bears... does that count?


Daniel Stoker

[Blight]

So until the 'greeblies' prove to be more powerful than humanity, I say war to the knife & beyond!!!!

You sir are so sigged!!

[Jesterzzn]

1000th Post!

[Nxla666]

The Coalition states must exist, for it gives rogue adventurers a high tech source of stolen equipment to play with when on adventures! Who doesn't want to steal a IAR-3 Skull Smasher and go on a rampage?

A sane person.

[dark brandon]

None of my characters support the coalition. If you are an evil mofo they kill you on site, if you have a high standard of morals they brand you a traitor to humanity and kill you, as a matter of fact unless you are subservient to the CS then you are as good as dead! Heck, it isn't uncommon for them to not protect their fronteer towns in the new west from attack (I've read at least two examples of this, one in mercenaries and another somewhere else that I can't remember). I'd try reasoning with them but that rarely works (their troops are like zealots).

The one in mercs, it never stated that the town was a CS town. If it wasn't why would they care if it got destoryed or not?

[dark brandon]

That still supports my point... they claim to support human life, but unless you support them they could care less about you. They could have very well stopped that attack, but instead decided to film the massacre and use it as another example of why all D-bees are bad.

I didn't say it didn't support your view, just correcting a statment or rather clerifying it.

Another view, is that I don't see why CS would stick it's neck out for anyone that's not CS. They support human life, but they also make it extreamly clear if you don't support the CS, "the greatest chance humans have for retaking the earth", then you arn't doing your job as a human, and in a world as deadly as rifts, that can be a bad thing.

[Nxla666]

That still supports my point... they claim to support human life, but unless you support them they could care less about you. They could have very well stopped that attack, but instead decided to film the massacre and use it as another example of why all D-bees are bad.

I didn't say it didn't support your view, just correcting a statment or rather clerifying it.

Another view, is that I don't see why CS would stick it's neck out for anyone that's not CS. They support human life, but they also make it extreamly clear if you don't support the CS, "the greatest chance humans have for retaking the earth", then you arn't doing your job as a human, and in a world as deadly as rifts, that can be a bad thing.

If the CS had Dark Brandon as a CS recruiter, they would have the manpower to attack Tolkeen, Lazlo, Xiticix, and FoM all at the same time and win.

Actually Dead Boy is more likely to fill that roll.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

That still supports my point... they claim to support human life, but unless you support them they could care less about you. They could have very well stopped that attack, but instead decided to film the massacre and use it as another example of why all D-bees are bad.

I didn't say it didn't support your view, just correcting a statment or rather clerifying it.

Another view, is that I don't see why CS would stick it's neck out for anyone that's not CS. They support human life, but they also make it extreamly clear if you don't support the CS, "the greatest chance humans have for retaking the earth", then you arn't doing your job as a human, and in a world as deadly as rifts, that can be a bad thing.

If the CS had Dark Brandon as a CS recruiter, they would have the manpower to attack Tolkeen, Lazlo, Xiticix, and FoM all at the same time and win.

Actually Dead Boy is more likely to fill that roll.

yeah he gives them long speeches, you think little jo-jo wrote them for him

[dark brandon]

That still supports my point... they claim to support human life, but unless you support them they could care less about you. They could have very well stopped that attack, but instead decided to film the massacre and use it as another example of why all D-bees are bad.

I didn't say it didn't support your view, just correcting a statment or rather clerifying it.

Another view, is that I don't see why CS would stick it's neck out for anyone that's not CS. They support human life, but they also make it extreamly clear if you don't support the CS, "the greatest chance humans have for retaking the earth", then you arn't doing your job as a human, and in a world as deadly as rifts, that can be a bad thing.

If the CS had Dark Brandon as a CS recruiter, they would have the manpower to attack Tolkeen, Lazlo, Xiticix, and FoM all at the same time and win.

Actually Dead Boy is more likely to fill that roll.

yeah he gives them long speeches, you think little jo-jo wrote them for him

With the combined might of the DB's, there will be one unified human army, marching under the flag of the coalition...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Looks good for the good guys

[Ravenwing]

Did you have any doubts that the CS would win!

[Nxla666]

Did you have any doubts that the CS would win!

Depends on who is writing.

[Ravenwing]

With my last breath, and the last of my blood. I shall stand for the CS and our beloved emperor! Death to the Xenos!

[Nxla666]

With my last breath, and the last of my blood. I shall stand for the CS and our beloved emperor! Death to the Xenos!

Psst...

Wrong Emperor.

Its "Death to the demonic invaders!"

[Ravenwing]

With my last breath, and the last of my blood. I shall stand for the CS and our beloved emperor! Death to the Xenos!

Psst...

Wrong Emperor.

Its "Death to the demonic invaders!"

Wait. You mean this isn't the "Do you support the imperium thread?"

[Ravenwing]

Plus the CS has the Terror Trooper PA. One of my favs.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

lol its been 2 years since my cousin has posted this .... has anyone opinions changed about Cs or are they stronger then ever?

CS love only grows withing the human spirit, all others sell their souls to the devil.....

yeah i may support the CS but atleast I know my master is human

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I think that the coalition was good at first when they where led by I belive Itomis the first to protect the humans against the monster d-bees but when he died (rumor syas by his son) Itomis the second broadened this view to include all d-bees. I usaully leave the coalitoin alonr but they are always where they should not be. getting right in the middle of our buisness. Like one adventure me and my bro and our two dogs where walking in a forest when we where struck down. We lived but our two campanins were no where to be found. a few months later after following leads we came upon a small genetic shop where we quikly discoverd we where bieing followed by 2 coalitoin dog hounds and a officer. We tried to flee but to no avail. we where takled down and the 2 dogs where our long lost freinds. This made all four of us go on rampages against the coalition. and since then we have always been against the coalition

Coalition was never nice to d-bees or monsters, Chi-town was pro-human and just started to see if magic could be worked in , but FOM sneaked attacked them and the rest is history.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Let prosek lift that ban on u-rounds and du-rounds, then will see who has the last laugh

[Grell]

I just voted.

Yes I am a HUMAN SUPREMACIST. D-bees are either a massive drain on the available resources to human society or they are invaders bent on killing us all. The D-bee agenda is to warp and pervert human culture into something twisted in their own image. They wish to play God with our hearts, our minds and on our planet!

The only good D-bee is a dead one. Kill 'em all!!!

[Jesterzzn]

I posted in this thread? Huh.

[Lucas]

the rights of man outweight the lives of the nonhuman

[csbioborg]

The people that do not support the C.S. either are short sighted or do not care whether humankind is swept to the way side. There is a very simple fact, which is supernatural beings such as dragons are longer lived, more powerful and even more intelligent than humans on average. This means that even to have the most benign dragon among is to create a Lazlo situation. That being, humanity will be ruled by superntaull beings such as Plato the Drgon or in Dweoner the Three Brothers becasue they are more powerful intelligent and wise. It is slvery by de facto. If a man has been so beaten by this world that he is willing to give up his automoney and ultimately the automoy of humanity then he can join those that would side with the D bees knowing that the warm bed he sleeps in has been paid with the right of humanity to everchose thier own course. It is in essence a alienation of ones natural librety. On the other hand you can decide instead to join the fight to reclaim a shattered world that has been INVADED by the xenos races and corrupted by the supernatural Ruinous POwers that dwell in the Rifts. The choice is simple live free by paying with blood and struggle or submit and serve those powers that would keep you for thier amusement.

Mopreover there is only so much room on earth and ever inch given to the d bee is one that man cannot reclaim for itself. Lord Prosek simply understands that this is our planet not there's it is our right and duty to bring earth back to human control.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

three years and still going strong

[bigbobsr6000]

The CS only protects docile, illiterate SDC/HPs normal humans. If you can read, write and teach others you are watched, arrested and/or killed. The CS only protects non-magical humans. Human Ley Line Walker, killed as example. The CS only protects non-supernatural humans. Human MDC supernatural, killed as example. Anyone outright talking against the CS, killed. Anyone aiding and abeting any D-Bee, killed. Any human of any kind in new territory taken over by CS and refuses to be, killed. Etc. If not outright killed, arrested, tortured, mind-probed, etc. then killed.

So, how is the CS for humanity again?

[bigbobsr6000]

If you use magic, you're not really a human being anymore as a human being does not naturally yank a loaf of bread and a fireball out of thin air. MDC supernatural beings are DEFINITELY not human. Humanoid, sure....but if your skin can't be penetrated by anything short of a current day tank shell, you are definitely NOT human.

Your saying that even the magic casting human and the supernatural human (MDC) are not human? Then what race are they?

Aiding and abetting a non-human is not an immediate death sentence unless said non-human has already attacked the CS. If that's the case, how is it any different from aiding and abetting someone who has attacked the nation you live in? You're guilty of treason and that's an offense punishable by death.

The CS does not allow freedom, free thinking, be able to teach openly, good non-humans to roam freely, human magic users who want nothing more than to good for humanity, etc. They suppress, arrest, jail, torture, mind probe and/or kill anyone/creature who says anything against them. They automatically arrest/kill anything who is "non-human" by their definition in their territory. What's next? A human born with an extra toe? A human born with a birth defect? A nation like this should be fought against. Based on your definition of treason, the U.S. was guilty of treason declaring independence from England and taking up arms against them. It is only treason from the current government's point of view.

Where exactly do you get these strange facts like "talking against the CS = death" or "reading & writing = death"? Or is this really one of those "the CS kills anyone I say it does" things?

By reading through all the Rifts' World Books is the impression I get. Do you really believe that if a person in Chi-Town in the streets started preaching freedom to read and write they would not be arrested? And if the same person repeatedly did this after each time of being released from jail he would not eventually be killed or "never seen again" at the hands of the CS? The answer is the CS would, IMO.

For the last one...let me get this straight. If someone conquers your land...but you keep fighting, then they kill you because of it...this means that they don't protect people? That pretty much screams that they're defending people. If anyone's a threat to people in that last example, it's the person still fighting.

What?! If I am fighting for my people to be free from the CS control how is that I would be a threat to my people? Was the French underground Freedom Fighters against Nazi occupation army during WWII a "threat" to their people? Absolutely not! This last argument doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks for your input, Alejandro, it is appreciated.

[Xenogears]

Alejandro you just got served!!!