Do you need hands to cast magic?

[Nekira Sudacne]

the answer is yes, and no. it depends on the spell version.


THere is no one way to cast a spell. in fact, there will be hundreds to thousands of different ways to cast the same spell on the same planet.

Some spells require nothing but words. others can honestly require all kinds of bizzare components. It depends on how your character learned the spell.

One Wizard may be able to cast a spell with a few quick mutterings, another might not be able to cast Globe of daylight without eye of newt, the soil from a fresh grave and a successful campire dance check. all depends on the wizard and spell version in question.

[drewkitty ~..~]

yes and no, those that take effect through the hand, like lighting bolt, abosoultly need hand gestures, even if just to point @ the target. Then there is the rest of the spells....no they don't nessessarily need hand jesturs, but the vertion of tha spell (as per your GM's rulling it so) or you mage is italion or some other person that has to move his hand to talk, yah. The only other reason for hand gestures is to cover up the fact that you don't need them to cast the spell.

[Lukterran]

No!!!! Only a verbal component is required for the majority of traditional spells.

Some like, create zombie and summon rodents etc. are rituals that do require drawing circles, and the manipulation of objects.

Hand gestures aren't part of spell magic.

[Marrowlight]

Depends on how skilled other parts of your body are at making the appropriate gestures.

[Ahulane]

Only words and the focus of willpower, according to canon. Hand-waving may be involved for theatrics, but it isn't necessary for most spells.

I was under the impression that mages required both verbal and physical cantations to cast their spells (gestures and talking). Hence, binding a casters hands behind his back prevents him from using his spells, or muting him...if its just verbal then that takes casters to a whole other level of awsomeness since all they have to do is mutter or talk through their throat (throat mic's that navy seals use require this kind of training all though it is very little training...more just practice...kind of like humming).

If you can, would you be able to quote me a page...I'm digging through my books and I can't seem to find anything on how spells are cast.[/quote]

[Lukterran]

It is in the magic section, I'll look up the page number and paragraph reference when I get home and have access to my books.

[sHaka]

It would seem that gesticulation in one form or another is important, at least for some spells - not hands specifically. Freedom of movement is important though, else why would the CS stick mages they want to keep alive in restraint suits that limit their movement?

[Ahulane]

It would seem that gesticulation in one form or another is important, at least for some spells - not hands specifically. Freedom of movement is important though, else why would the CS stick mages they want to keep alive in restraint suits that limit their movement?

See thats what I was thinking...other than the typical means, why would they chop of their hands/arms and replace them with cybernetic ones...it has to do with their requireing physical movements in their spells

[Ahulane]

replacing natural limbs with cybernetic/bionic limbs is more about disrupting the mages PPE than anything else.

Thats why I said other than typical means...torture, prevent casting or using PPE, bio-systems to replace lost limbs. What would be the other point...really though now that I think about it...regardless if their hands were taken...just their loss would make it really difficult for them to go about their day to day activities, just like anyone else.

using those lock suits (whatever they are called) seems to also be about exploiting the idea that mages can't where armour anymore. not because it restricts movement but because wearing armour disrupts the mages flow of PPE. the locking part i thought was just to keep them from running away.

Its not that mages can't wear armor...the coalition binds them in metallic MDC armor, mages can wear armor of any kind like anyone else...but if they want to be able to channel PPE and use magic without a % to fail then they don't wear metallic armors.

But seriously, why handcuff em', tie them up, bind their feet, blind fold them, gag them, place them in a straight jacket, tie them up some more and then finally use a locking suit and weighing them down with 50 lbs of chain restraints and then putting them inside a small iron box...whats the point if all they need is a gag? Cause you know that the coalition goes to that kind of extreme if they catch a mage...the next step after he's been weakened with drugs and starvation they cut off a limb and replace it with a cybernetic one so they can't use magic at all then interrogate the hell out of them, and finally either execute or put them in a slave camp after gouging out their eyes and replacing them with cheap cybernetic ones and surgically removing their voice-box.[/code]

[Nekira Sudacne]

It would seem that gesticulation in one form or another is important, at least for some spells - not hands specifically. Freedom of movement is important though, else why would the CS stick mages they want to keep alive in restraint suits that limit their movement?

Why do you restrain ANY prisoner?

[jade von delioch]

i think it is required...

as a case in point there is a section of either the coalition war campaign book or Psycape that has the apparatus used to bind magic users that have been captured by the CS. the device has a pair of steel hand cuff mittens that bind the hands so that the magic user can not wiggle a pinkie even a fraction of a millimeter.

[Damian Magecraft]

i think it is required...

as a case in point there is a section of either the coalition war campaign book or Psycape that has the apparatus used to bind magic users that have been captured by the CS. the device has a pair of steel hand cuff mittens that bind the hands so that the magic user can not wiggle a pinkie even a fraction of a millimeter.

Officially the answer is unless the spell requires it...no...
canon rules state invocations are verbal only...however some spells do state they incorporate a somantic gesture/component.

[finn69]

ill have to look it up but i recall something about mages being able to cast spells even without the verbal component in rifts underseas but it takes longer to cast.

[shiiv-a]

personally .... [not that my opinion qualifies for a lot] .. my opinion on the topic is simple

yes its verbal ... and yes there is some form of physical content involved.

how else is the PPE gonna know where to strike or stick too ... or other boring stuff like that ..

PPE is a living force pulled out of the mage and the earth to do fancy displays of power for profit or defense or other reasons

*thus it would need to know its direction .. and what its supposed to do.
*people DON'T show enough when they utilize a mage
*they don't cover the effect drawing in power or expending it would look like
*people don't take the time to make the colorful post that describes it emerging from the mage and striking .. be it good or bad result

sorry .. but as i said .. thats only MY opinion. it should take effort to cast a spell .. thus a colorful post of the effort to 'attempt' to harness the energies should happen .. but i guess that is what keeps the good players apart from the masses of so-so players ..

no offense meant IF those words stung you .. later for now

[Crazy Lou]

the answer is yes, and no. it depends on the spell version.


THere is no one way to cast a spell. in fact, there will be hundreds to thousands of different ways to cast the same spell on the same planet.

Some spells require nothing but words. others can honestly require all kinds of bizzare components. It depends on how your character learned the spell.

One Wizard may be able to cast a spell with a few quick mutterings, another might not be able to cast Globe of daylight without eye of newt, the soil from a fresh grave and a successful campire dance check. all depends on the wizard and spell version in question.

I agree. It's said somewhere (probably multiple places) that it depends on how the character learned the spell. The example that comes to mind is the Rifts one where a human's invocation might be in one language, while another race that only speaks in the ultrasonic range has a totally different one, and later it's said that if completely incapacitated you can still cast invocations, etc w/ just concentration and will and PPE but it's way harder b/c the character didn't learn it that way. I'm sure the same applies for hands. What about an intellignet snake race? They should still be able to cast fire globe, etc.

[Crazy Lou]

Well, I don't know what to say to that... That's somewhat prejudiced vs those exceptional races that don't use our frequency. It's not like ultrasonic aliens or others aren't allowed to use magic ever just because they can't pronounce the Old Ones' names, or don't have ancestry on the palladium fantasy world. Suppose your race stems from another world on the other side of the megaverse and has never had contact with the PF world? Would your race never be able to do magic? I don't see why it couldn't. All PF magic may have started like that and that's how it works for most of them, but that's just because it is how those PF races learned magic. They learned to focus their magic in that way, the same way another or world might teach magic with English "Focus Words" or ultrasonic "Focus Words."

[Damian Magecraft]

Power words are only for circles and wards. Not invocations.

sorry but no....1st ed PFRPG all spells had the power words listed in their descriptions...for invocations this descriptor got dropped around the time Rifts came out. But the verbal only aspect remained...

[Crazy Lou]

Power words are only for circles and wards. Not invocations.

sorry but no....1st ed PFRPG all spells had the power words listed in their descriptions...for invocations this descriptor got dropped around the time Rifts came out. But the verbal only aspect remained...

Well.... technically the "verbal only" aspect to which I believe you refer isn't a unyeilding rule. It's stated (I know for sure in the Bionic Sourcebook for Rifts, and other places I think too including BoM) that if the mage is rendered incapable of speech, bound, gagged, etc, he can still cast magic, but at a reduced ability (something like 1 spell/melee and might take extra PPE -- ? unsure of that part) just by sheer focus, etc.