94 Million Credits

[devillin]

Hey All,

I wanted to get some advice, purchase ideas from you guys. I have a character who has just come into 94 million credits. He is primarily a fighter jock, with some pretty impressive ground fighting skills as well. He already has a customized fighter (Glitterized Robotech Legios) and pretty good power armor (a Glitterized Cyclone), and is a co-owner of a Hunter destroyer that is shared amongst the player group. Considering all this, if this were your character, what would you purchase?

Devillin

[Marrowlight]

Hey All,

I wanted to get some advice, purchase ideas from you guys. I have a character who has just come into 94 million credits. He is primarily a fighter jock, with some pretty impressive ground fighting skills as well. He already has a customized fighter (Glitterized Robotech Legios) and pretty good power armor (a Glitterized Cyclone), and is a co-owner of a Hunter destroyer that is shared amongst the player group. Considering all this, if this were your character, what would you purchase?

Devillin

A better HQ.

[Braden Campbell]

Purchase one Absurr Life Node, available at any of the five Splugorthian Kingdoms throughout the Three Galaxies. That will triple your life span, and you'll still have about 34 million credits left.



Or, buy yourself a governmental position in the Free World Council. They're broke, and with your 94 million credits, you could pay the salaries of 7833 FWC Troopers for a year. That's an entire division under your personal sway.

[devillin]

Hey All,

I wanted to get some advice, purchase ideas from you guys. I have a character who has just come into 94 million credits. He is primarily a fighter jock, with some pretty impressive ground fighting skills as well. He already has a customized fighter (Glitterized Robotech Legios) and pretty good power armor (a Glitterized Cyclone), and is a co-owner of a Hunter destroyer that is shared amongst the player group. Considering all this, if this were your character, what would you purchase?

Devillin

A better HQ.

We're working on it. We've got plans to glitterize our command cruiser, the Thoroughbred off of my webpage, and turn the Ramantha Queen into a Q-Ship. We've got some laser cannons we blasted off of some pirate ships a few adventures back that we plan to put in popout turrets. As soon as that is done, we're dropping that Hunter. It may be fast, but it got pimped slapped by two oversized shuttles in that last adventure, and we realized just how woefully weak it really is. We only survived because we managed to launch fighters before they killed us.

[AzathothXy]

Obsessed with the glitter, huh?

[shiiv-a]

hmm .. you could try to 'set up' a training center .. for the new up and coming fighter types ...

or a secret library filled with books and such

...

*goes quiet and then digs into the ice cream once again

[devillin]

Obsessed with the glitter, huh?

Oh heck yeah.
When you consider that for the same weight in regular armor you can get glitter armor that is twice as strong, plus it takes half damage from laser weapons? As long as money is no object, you can't beat it for value.

[KLM]

Somehow, I think that a good TW could do it cheaper,
and not just laser, but any other energy weapon resistant.

Even plasma warheads will be shrugged off.

Just my wo cents.

-----------------------------------------------------------
As for the other part, I think that - after reading a bit
about german commercial raiders (some of those captains
must have been "Player characters" ) - I think
a "Q" ship is only superior of a Hunter in regards of
subterfuge.

In terms of combat performance... She should perform
far worse than a true combat ship. IMO of course.

Adios
KLM

[devillin]

As for the other part, I think that - after reading a bit
about german commercial raiders (some of those captains
must have been "Player characters" ) - I think
a "Q" ship is only superior of a Hunter in regards of
subterfuge.

Maybe. But those Q-ships weren't armed with battlecruiser cannons, cruise missiles, and four squads of Alpha fighters; all protected by the strongest warship shields we can find. Unlike the Hunter, we are not going to have all of our weaponry mounted forward, or only capable of firing one shot at a time.

Like I said, getting the snot beat out of you by two oversized shuttles really changes your thinking.

[KLM]

Nah, statwise I am probably wrong.

But if the books say, that a Hunter is a highly
successfully design, and probably the best bang for
the buck in her category... Then I alter the stats, so
that it can beat those two shuttles.

Just my two cents.

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

You're using it wrong.

The Hunter-class is a stealthed destroyer... it is meant to sneak up on large ships like cruisers and battleships, blast a big hole in them with its particle beams, then relocate and try it again.

Also, being a Wulfen design, it is probably meant to travel in "wolf packs" of something like five or more.

All by itself, I'm not surprised you got beaten by twice your number of smaller ships.... but you did make certain your GM rolled a negative for the enemy to even find you first, right?

[glitterboy2098]

Transferred Intelligence Robots build them with AI's so that when a real consciousness isn't inside them, they're still useful. The only trouble is that PB's $$costs$$ for robots is ridiculously high. Bye-Bye to bank-accounts if you use their costs.

since the rules are in SB1, just remember that phase world credits have more than 10x the buying power of rifts credits.

[KLM]

IMO Phase world credits are not that better, just a couple of things
are more readily aviable there (mainly E-clips - guns have comparable
prices in Earth and in 3G credits. Same for the Mystic PA - 2M on
Earth, 'cause it is hard to manufacture and rare. 0,5 measly bucks
in the 3G, since the UWW floods the market with them).

Adios
KLM

[devillin]

Phase Transceiver for the Hunter -- next time you see two shuttles you can get the hell out !!! Hard to say what those would be worth in terms of money. I'd probably use a ship FF as a model. If your GM doesn't suck the life out of your bank account, then fit PT's on the ship's lifeboats as well. This way your people can escape to a safe place (well, sorta)

I like the thought, but the group wouldn't go for it. The one time we went to Phase World, they refused to leave the main boulevard with nothing less than a heavily armed escort of Cyclone Riders. I had completely unnerved them with the statistic (that was brought up here on the boards last year) that in any given minute on Phase World, the equivalent of a Player Party is killed. I thought the sight of them huddling down the boulevard was funny, then they found the store they were looking for. They were like, "By the numbers people. You two take the left of the door, you two take the right. Him, him, him, him, him, him, and me are going in. The rest of you keep your eyes peeled and don't let anyone get too close. Shoot them with missiles if you have to."

OP-Phase Fields for each character and crewman, at 60K a pop you can outfit ~20 guys for 1+million. Don't know how many you've got, but those can be extremely handy items. You can hide in plain sight, Kinda like the Bene Gesserit when Baron Harkonnen visited their sanctuary.

Yeah, we'll have to see about getting those then. We've got a pretty small crew on our ship right now, roughly 20 folks total. If we get the Ramantha, we're going to have to hire some more crew.

Transferred Intelligence Robots build them with AI's so that when a real consciousness isn't inside them, they're still useful. The only trouble is that PB's $$costs$$ for robots is ridiculously high. Bye-Bye to bank-accounts if you use their costs.

We are starting to invest in AIs for certain functions. So far we have a couple of automated turrets, and an Alpha Drone.

Gravity Scanner if you don't already have one. I think the one's in the Naruni Enforcer cost 1 million (in PB if it does anything cool, it costs big bucks). Still, might be worth having, especially if you can peek at things from 100's of miles away (like close orbit). Kitsune's site has hand-portable models.

I'll definately look into this one.

[devillin]

The Hunter-class is a stealthed destroyer... it is meant to sneak up on large ships like cruisers and battleships, blast a big hole in them with its particle beams, then relocate and try it again.

All by itself, I'm not surprised you got beaten by twice your number of smaller ships.... but you did make certain your GM rolled a negative for the enemy to even find you first, right?

Well, we weren't completely alone. we were part of a convoy. We had just got finished with a bigger fight and were approaching a couple of stolen freighters when the boarding shuttles detached and attacked us. Those shuttles had one heavy weapon, mounted on a turret, and they skin-danced us. If we could have hit them, it would have been all over. But they kept outflying our pilot and plinking us with a 4D6x10 cannon. the one time he outflew a shuttle he hit it and it died. The other one kept dancing until we grabbed it with some Alphas and sent a Cyclone boarding crew over. Between the two of them, they did something like 1000 MD of damage. We were pi$$ed, especially since we made it through a fight against 2 cruisers and 5 destroyers without a major hit. Granted, there were 2 cruisers, 5 runners, 20 odd Alphas and Betas, and about 30 frieghters on our side to soak up incoming fire. But still....

[glitterboy2098]

You're using it wrong.

The Hunter-class is a stealthed destroyer... it is meant to sneak up on large ships like cruisers and battleships, blast a big hole in them with its particle beams, then relocate and try it again.

Also, being a Wulfen design, it is probably meant to travel in "wolf packs" of something like five or more.

All by itself, I'm not surprised you got beaten by twice your number of smaller ships.... but you did make certain your GM rolled a negative for the enemy to even find you first, right?

actually, given the issues involved in space warfare detection (summed up: "can't win, can't escape, can't break even"), the Hunter would technically be a "reduced emissions" vessel.
stealth in space is impossible. the best you can do is make it harder to pick you out from the background clutter. the hunter would have Radar absorbing materials built into the hull coatings, would use radiators sheilded to be visible from only a certain direction, grav generators designed to produce reduced waveforms, ect. this way the ship is harder to find amid the other junk that fills the sensor screen, like asteroids, stars, ect. at least, for specific angles.


a hunter probably operated in groups (to maximize combat power), and probably had a "coast and wait" battle style. on attack, it would probably drop out of FTL far from the system it's operating from, and coast in, it's reactors running at minimal levels to reduce emissions. no comms, no active sensors. it would use this "silent running" approach to get into position for a lightning quick strike, followed up by an FTL escape.
on the defensive, it would be much the same. it would sit in a well travelled area, under Emcon protocols. if an enemy gets near, it strikes and then flees, using a hit and run defense.

Hunter's can't survive a straight up battle. you have to think like a pirate, using guerilla tactics, hit and runs, ambushes, ect. never let your opponent fight you on even terms.



i do want to know how you fit a Legios into a Hunter though. that plane is almost a fourth the size of the destroyer.

[Aramanthus]

Some interesting ideas being thrown around. Those are some interesting ideas on how to spend that money.

[devillin]

i do want to know how you fit a Legios into a Hunter though. that plane is almost a fourth the size of the destroyer.

Very carefully.

Actually, we have a Vindicator in the bottom hanger, two Alphas in the midline flight decks, and my Beta in the upper hanger. My drone Alpha is stored in battaloid mode in the storage space on the upper deck. We expanded that hanger by using some of the cargo space and crew quarters. My Beta launches in fighter mode, then the drone Alphas jumps out after me. We link up in flight.

That's why we are starting to get antsy about getting the Queen up. We just picked up some toys from a Splurgorth cruiser that we really want to play with, and we need space.

[KLM]

actually, given the issues involved in space warfare detection (summed up: "can't win, can't escape, can't break even"), the Hunter would technically be a "reduced emissions" vessel.

Hmm...

First, 3G "canon" military stealth makes it possible for ship to
remain undetected from like 5000 km... Looks like a small range
in space, but as things are, ship can close with like 20M at maximum
(maybe the fastest fighters going head-on can reach like 40M
relative speed), which is, even with the "upgraded Robotech M number"
gives like 1 km/sec (so like 40 km/s).

This gives like 2 minutes minimum (but in the case of "fleeing"
enemy, even can reach an hour, or more) to close in to weapons
range.

So much for sneaking up undetected and gutting the target
with the first salvo...

---------------------------
Second, Glitterboy mainly bases his opinion on this site:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3w.html

Which is worth reading, however...

Well, this article is taking 90% as maximum efficiency
for weapons or engines - which is very nice, and probably
the theoretical maximum - which means that ships shine
on thermo.

The only issue about this, that if in RIFTS the maximum
efficiency of a laser is 90%... Well, fire your laspistol for
9 MD, and then touch it with are hands... (I would say it
would worth like 10 SDC in burns).

Yet, this is not the case in the game - so that "90% max.
efficiency rule" cannot be applied (without totally blasting
ingame reality).

Just my two cents.

Adios
KLM

[devillin]

it would depend on the stats of the opponent (I'm talking generally) both in terms of MDC and their damage-causing capabilities. those must have been some shuttles. who owned them ? Sploogs ? Kreegs ? others ?

Noro pirates. No, we haven't gotten the whole story on them yet. The shuttles have been described, but basically: 100ft long, ~400MDC, a little bit faster than the Hunter in normal space, a light forward laser, a medium particle beam cannon on a turret. 4D6x10 MD x 4 attacks per round x 2 straight rounds x 2 shuttles = Plinking Us To Death.

Even the GM was like, "These things are killing you?!?"

[KLM]

it would depend on the stats of the opponent (I'm talking generally) both in terms of MDC and their damage-causing capabilities. those must have been some shuttles. who owned them ? Sploogs ? Kreegs ? others ?

Noro pirates. No, we haven't gotten the whole story on them yet. The shuttles have been described, but basically: 100ft long, ~400MDC, a little bit faster than the Hunter in normal space, a light forward laser, a medium particle beam cannon on a turret. 4D6x10 MD x 4 attacks per round x 2 straight rounds x 2 shuttles = Plinking Us To Death.

Even the GM was like, "These things are killing you?!?"

Well... There are the CG guns and the med range missile launchers,
so I am really curious how those two shuttles could survive long enough...

Adios
KLM

[devillin]

Well... There are the CG guns and the med range missile launchers,
so I am really curious how those two shuttles could survive long enough...

They outflew us. They shot down the cruise missiles and dodged the CGs and lasers. The GM was just rolling very well that day. Also of note, we don't have the medium launchers. The launchers are still there, but the magazines were removed. Our Hunter was stolen from a bunch of pirates who took them out for more cargo space and a faster drive. The group never bothered to replace them.

[Aramanthus]

That makes for an interesting destroyer. Are you going to be putting those Medium missiles back in?

[devillin]

That makes for an interesting destroyer. Are you going to be putting those Medium missiles back in?

We probably will this time around. I've been telling the guys we needed to slow down and do some character maintenance rp'ing before we go on the next adventure, but we keep jumping off before we get everything done. Besides the mess with the medium missiles, we also had a character who's been walking around only wearing a phase field. We keep meaning to make him armor, but never got around to it. He's been hurt something fierce the last couple of adventures, so I think he is finally getting antsy enough to make the time and do it.

[Thinyser]

Kittani K-1000 Spider Defense System. (P138 atlantis)

At 1 million each for an automated (damn near AI quality) defense weapon that:
-is mobile when needed (take it off the ship's exterior and bring it with the party when they are on the ground)
-Has an essentially unlimited ammo supply (2 hour down time for recharge)
-6 shots per melee all by itself
-1d4x10 damage (not much against ships I know but if you have 10 of the little buggers all linked thats 1d4x100 per shot and six shots per melee is not too shabby for a mere 10 million)

its one of the best value for the money there is IMO.

Every player should have one (also great for power armor, attach to shoulder and bam you got 6 more attacks per melee)

[devillin]

I've got 5. I bought them several gaming sessions ago. I use it as a handheld gun in battaloid mode, and as a backseat gunner when I have the Cyclone in motorcycle mode. I had my GM cracking up last mission cause I had three of them as we boarded a Splurgorth warship and I was order them around by saying, "Come my little minions, come. Let's rain some pain on these Sploogies." Besides the stuff they come with, I also have them outfitted with Naruni forcefields, since I lost one two sessions back after getting knocked out by a paralyzer beam. I swore not to make that mistake again. Everything I've got has at least two Naruni FF on it, the primary, and a backup for when the primary shuts down.

[Aramanthus]

That is a very good suggestion!

[Thinyser]

:D

I've got 5. I bought them several gaming sessions ago. I use it as a handheld gun in battaloid mode, and as a backseat gunner when I have the Cyclone in motorcycle mode. I had my GM cracking up last mission cause I had three of them as we boarded a Splurgorth warship and I was order them around by saying, "Come my little minions, come. Let's rain some pain on these Sploogies." Besides the stuff they come with, I also have them outfitted with Naruni forcefields, since I lost one two sessions back after getting knocked out by a paralyzer beam. I swore not to make that mistake again. Everything I've got has at least two Naruni FF on it, the primary, and a backup for when the primary shuts down.

LOL Time to invest in some more then! They are about the best investment that I can think of.

I liked them so much i had Naruni reverse engineer them, make them into a cigar shaped antigrav drone for faster speeds and more maneuverability options. It had a bit more power (ion blaster 6d6/1d6x10 instead of laser) with a bit lower range, and of course a FF on it. They could be radio linked to up to 24 other drones (total of 25 share the link) and could coordinate their attacks for optimal effects. There was also a enhanced model that had a ring of 12 mini-missiles that could deploy from inside the drone for extra punch against heavy targets.
Normal model: 3 million credits
Enhanced model: 3.5 million credits
Low availability and triple the the cost on the black market.

They were primarily used as security forces for naruni and its close associates and would generally travel in pairs (one just above ground level and one several hundred feet up in the air) scanning for intruders. When an intruder is detected its armor is estimated and reinforcements are called in accordingly. When reinforcements arrive they will all fire simultaneously on the targe usually obliterating it in the initial attack. Of course if the intruder is fast moving and or and immediate threat, or if no reinforecments are available, it will be fired upon immediately.

[KLM]

A humble reminder of my grandeur (not my modesty, however

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continued here

viewtopic.php?t=66139&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=yazhing&&start=390

Adios
KLM

[devillin]

wow, massive combat fiends.

can you summarize your little band of PCs ?

Sure. The principle characters are:
Me, Phineous, 4th level human Cyclone Rider.
Co-GM, human 3rd level Robot Slammer, 2nd level Techno-Wizard.
Maverick, 3rd level human Destroid Pilot.
Klikk, one of those Atorian Bug Warriors from Aliens Unlimited (3rd level).
Vin, 3rd level Burster.
Secondary characters are NPCs who used to be PCs, but their players can't make it to the games anymore:
Victorinox Sypher (Vicky), 3rd level Praxian Military Specialist.
Choppa Ace, 2nd level human Veritech Pilot.
Marcus, 2nd level Veritech Pilot.
Then of course, there is the entire crew of the Thoroughbred as straight NPCs.

put OP fields on them so that they walk in invisible, then materialize where you need them.

Ooh. Tachikomas. Cool idea!

[dragon_blaze_99]

Earth

[Aramanthus]

Those are some great ideas. Thinyser how many of thos could you equip a starship with? And was there a limitation on the minimum size to carry them?

[Thinyser]

Those are some great ideas. Thinyser how many of thos could you equip a starship with? And was there a limitation on the minimum size to carry them?

The Kittani Spider defense systems???

Probably as many as you can have attachment points for their little legs to grab onto (dozens or hundreds depending on the ship's size).

Thing is, unless your GM allows for enhanced ranges in the vacuume of space, they are really not all that great for anything but (relitivly) short range encounters.

As to carrying them they run along by themselves on their itty bitty legs They weigh like 80 pounds so if you're a borg, dragon hatchling, or some other such strong critter you should be fine but others would need that railgun harness thingy.

[devillin]

Ooh. Tachikomas. Cool idea!

Oh yeah, Baby!! I'm going to purchase at least three more and equip them with 2 Naruni shields, a phase shield, and that CG flightpack. If I'm feeling really sadistic, I'll go and purchase a simple little AI for them. Nothing more complex than gunnery and follow their leader.

[Aramanthus]

Ah. That make sense. I didn't recognise it because of the shape chnage you carried out on them. The cigar shape threw me way off! Thanks for the rapid response.

[Thinyser]

Ah. That make sense. I didn't recognise it because of the shape chnage you carried out on them. The cigar shape threw me way off! Thanks for the rapid response.

Yeah my homebrew naruni remakes use contragrav for movement not legs. They really wouldnt work on a spaceship they are pretty much just sentry gurds for groundbased work.

[Aramanthus]

But those would be a heck of a drone or ucav equivilent enmasse. In large numbers your little variation would be a heck of a surprise to those with ground sensors listening for vibrations.

[Thinyser]

But those would be a heck of a drone or ucav equivilent enmasse. In large numbers your little variation would be a heck of a surprise to those with ground sensors listening for vibrations.

Yeah they sure would... feel free to let your imagination run wild!

[Aramanthus]

So they have the same sort of stats as the normal one except the legs are replaced with a contra-grav unit. Is that about it? Thanks for the idea Thinyser!

[KLM]

Those are some great ideas. Thinyser how many of thos could you equip a starship with? And was there a limitation on the minimum size to carry them?

The Kittani Spider defense systems???

Probably as many as you can have attachment points for their little legs to grab onto (dozens or hundreds depending on the ship's size).

For my part, I would rule, that they need some kind of
connection to the ship, not to interfere with shields.
Another bonus is added payload, throught the connection.

But yeah, a Hunter could easily mount a few dozen.

(Kittani use them, because they can relocate, so they can fill
gaps, concentrate firepower and plainly cover more angles with
less units - ie. economically sound).

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

If the ship is equiped with them maybe they could be equiped with either a CG tether to the ship or else a physical tether to it.

And if you are using them you could always buy say some software to modify your shields to allow it to open little windows when the weapons are firing.

[Thinyser]

Those are some great ideas. Thinyser how many of thos could you equip a starship with? And was there a limitation on the minimum size to carry them?

The Kittani Spider defense systems???

Probably as many as you can have attachment points for their little legs to grab onto (dozens or hundreds depending on the ship's size).

For my part, I would rule, that they need some kind of
connection to the ship, not to interfere with shields.
Another bonus is added payload, throught the connection.

But yeah, a Hunter could easily mount a few dozen.

(Kittani use them, because they can relocate, so they can fill
gaps, concentrate firepower and plainly cover more angles with
less units - ie. economically sound).

Adios
KLM

Do shields need to be lowered to fire out? By canon I mean.

I haven't played any space based (or even space intensive) games...

[devillin]

Do shields need to be lowered to fire out? By canon I mean.

I haven't played any space based (or even space intensive) games...

probably, does it say specifically no.

Dimension Book 2 has a section about the ship force fields and the Silverhawk writeup mentions about disrupting the shields.

It looks pretty much like a "constantly up barrier" around a ship, and since they're off the hull by X feet... I doubt there'd be "holes in the field to let the gun barrels stick out" but I wouldn't doubt someone doing it that way on these boards

Why overthink it? Just do it like Star Trek does it. Each ship has a frequency that it keeps its shields at. You fire through the shields by having your energy weapons match the frequency of your shields. If you are firing a physical item, then a hole has to be opened for it. That is how Silverhawks work. They approach a ship, touch shields, then match the frequency of the shield through the physical contact. They then just float through the bubble their shield makes.

Similarly, that is the difference between the two types of shields. Standard shields are like those from ST:TOS. They are skin tight and if you are launching a fighter/shuttle, you need to drop your entire shield system. Torpedo launchers protrude from the main hull so that they are right on the edge of the shield system and don't have to force the shields to drop to fire. Variable shields are like the shields from ST:TNG, bubble shields. Due to the variable nature of the shields, you can match the frequencies of a shield location to the energy signature of your torpedoes, allowing you to spread the launchers out over the hull. And while it is safer to launch vessels with the shield in that location shut off, you can launch with them up. Especially since all the shuttle has to do now is clear the bay, raise their shields, match frequencies, then just flow through their mothership's shields.

So, in a setting like Phase World, you would have civilian and primitive warships with standard shields. While advanced military and some civilian ships (like smugglers and privateers) would have variable. So while the tech level would be one factor in restricting who gets a variable, the other would be the cost. At the very least, a variable shield is 12 to 24 times better than a standard shields (6 times the protection x 2 - 4 times the recharge rate), and should be just as expensive.

[Aramanthus]

I always think of the Honor Harrington version of shields; their side walls open port to allow fire to exit. It's open for a nano second then it's closed. And the dorsal and ventral sides of the ship are protected by impenatratable gravity bands that also move the ship along. I just use the open portals for outgoing fire in Phase World not the Gravity bands.

[Aramanthus]

Gadrin, you don't use them when it comes to shields?

[Aramanthus]

It's not the only game which causes that sort of reaction. I've played with both players and GMs like that! I know where you are coming from.