Hades and Hades

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:24 am

I was just wondering. I hope there is at least some mention of the god Hades presented in CB2 Pantheons of the Megaverse and his realm that is somehow connected to Hades in the book about that realm?

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:32 am

anarchclown wrote:I was just wondering. I hope there is at least some mention of the god Hades presented in CB3 Pantheons of the Megaverse and his realm that is somehow connected to Hades in the book about that realm?

Sorry, but you're going to be disappointed. This is Palladium's version of Hades based on what was written in Palladium Fantasy's Dragons and Gods book.

Carl

Braden Campbell · Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:33 am

Maybe the 2 dimensions are pronounced differently... one is "haids", and the other is "hay-dees".

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:55 am

Yes but it is also mentioned in the entry about the god Hades in Conversion Book 2 that he has had some dealings with the demons of Hades as in the one mentioned in Dragons and Gods. But if you say it's not in the book it isn't I am not exactly going to be disappointed I was just wondering because over the years PB seems to have stacked up on little things that change from book to book. Doesn't mean i can't wing it though if i want to include the greek gods.

And you can't really be expected to have no life and have read all the books. Thats reserved for people like me. :-P

Even if you did I don't think it matters that much I am happy to finally see some books about this as i have been playing PFRPG since the first edition and have loved using demons and devils since then.

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:23 pm

On another note I had so much material for Hades I wouldn't be surprised if some of it gets cut. Although the expanded page count may help. I'll have to look up more on whats in CB2. Maybe it can be incorporated into a future book. Or it could be a parallel dimension to Hades. Oh the possibilities

Carl

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:04 pm

Just call the realm he rules Tartarus and have it be a dimension that is connected by quite a lot of portals to normal Hades. Thats probably what i will do. There isn't much really just a description of him and that he is the god of death.

Of course if one calls it Tartarus it's a real hell instead of just a bleak kingdom of death that even includes the Elysian Fields.

Yes i really should stop reading so much about useless stuff like ancient Greek religion.

And just for the record i like your earlier stuff and will probably love Hades even though I am rooting for the Deevils since Sahtalus that has always been a cool badguy for me.

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:00 pm

anarchclown wrote:Just call the realm he rules Tartarus and have it be a dimension that is connected by quite a lot of portals to normal Hades. Thats probably what i will do. There isn't much really just a description of him and that he is the god of death.

Of course if one calls it Tartarus it's a real hell instead of just a bleak kingdom of death that even includes the Elysian Fields.

Yes i really should stop reading so much about useless stuff like ancient Greek religion.

And just for the record i like your earlier stuff and will probably love Hades even though I am rooting for the Deevils since Sahtalus that has always been a cool badguy for me.

Tartarus is actually the southern continent of Hades

Hades is probably big enough that the god "Hades" could probably have his own realm somewhere. I do like the idea however of many portals in the dimension of hades leading to the god Hades realm. Damn you anarchclown for planting the those seeds in my brain

Glad you like what I've done so far. Don't worry, I gave the deevils a fair representation and they have secrets of their own that will make then on par with the Hades demons. Each side has their own strengths and weakness. In the end you (and everyone else who buys the series) will decide for yourself who win, looses, or if its a draw in their war. Or perhaps the battle will just rage on?

Carl

9voltkilowatt · Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:23 pm

It doesnt even really need portals, according CB2 Hades (the God) lives in Hades (his personal realm, and also contains Tartarus) which is bordered by many demon realms, one of these is most likely teh demon Hades.

Taken to the extreme, one could say that Hades lives in Hades which is located in Hades! :ok:

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:21 am

I'm looking forward to your Hades.... Carl!

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:04 am

Glad to be of service. Thats one of the perks of having no life. Means you get to indulge in letting your overactive imagination work it's magic. Uh... or something.

Personally i vote for a draw and things going back to a cold war but I might change my mind once the books come out. Even prepared my own little part of the Thundercloud galaxy to totally thrash when the war starts.

And as a note about the whole many portals connecting too it, it's just something i do a lot myself. I even go so far as to let people cross over from one world to another by entering something connected to that realm sometime. Like if you actually enter a fabled volcano you might go to the elemental plane of fire etc. And some dimensions have so much in common they have many such points between them where you can naturally cross over.

Of course the name of the game is Rifts so often times i just use a big blue tear in reality as well so people don't start thinking it's called "Subtle Shifts In The Megaverse RPG" :-P

And yes i know that Tartarus was the place where the Titans were punished but it was a part of the domain of Hades as was the Elysean Fields. Just saying this is Rifts it doesn't have to be a hundred percent right about ancient mythology. Especially not since there were 10.000 cults just in Athens during it's heyday. I doubt they were in agreement about what god ruled over what etc. We just get the few fragments that have actually stuck around untill today. Many of them have also been recorded by Romans and not the ancient greeks themselves.

Though i still am thankfull for you mentioning this since it means you have been paying attention to my thread

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:13 am

Hmm maybe there is more than one Hades. Maybe the god Hades named all dimensions where he has beachheads after himself. Kind of like Alexander the great named several cities after himself.

Uh. Or something?

Or he found it on his travels from his own realm and named it Hades because surely it was a realm of horror and death and the southern continent was even more horrible than the realm that he ruled by the same name.

Of course the third smaller continent is the one that is the worst according to Palladium. Or he could just have been the ruler of Hades at one time and ousted by someone perhaps Modeus or someone before that even.

That also leaves us with the possibility that there are titans locked into hellish prisons hidden somewhere in Hades which could always be good fun.

Of course Hades the god might dream of one day (re)conquering his realm.

Or he was named by Chronos after a realm from which Chronos was spawned and it is the Dimension that precedes the god.

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:09 am

Yeah you are right about that also of course. Both normal Palladium world and Hades always struck me as kind of smallish anyways. Though i really like the fact that PB unlike most other game companies doing fantasy at least aren't afraid of putting people in it. Some settings have the worlds biggest city that lies at the heart of a huge empire have 75.000 people in it. Here the capital of Western Empire is a million people wich puts it on par with some of the cities of ancient Greece and Rome.

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:20 am

I tend to populate my fantasy realm as well, it makes combat more epic and the stakes greater.

Sgt Anjay · Unread post by **Sgt Anjay** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:12 pm

My question isn't so much where Hades' realm is, but the name issue....
was Hades the place named after Hades the god, which could've happened any number of ways, or is Hades the god named after Hades the place because that's where he made his home?

Chicken or the egg? Chicken or the egg?

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:49 pm

If I recall correctly, Modeus defeated the last ruler of Hades taking it over. Could that have been the god Hades

Could make things interesting, maybe he wasn't defeated, just pushed out? Now he has a little less real-estate.

Carl

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:09 pm

My thoughts were starting to run along those lines too yes. Or maybe it was that he had more than one realm although the one named after him was his pride and joy. However being the ruler of all that territory meant he was spread a bit thin and thus he lost it to someone younger and more hungry. Of course he could still be dreaming of regaining power.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:15 pm

Another interesting tidbit! Thanks Carl!

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:29 pm

While we are on the subject about the Pantheons of the Megaverse book. You could probably use Ahriman too. I think it says that he is specifically looking for allied forces of Darkness across the megaverse. Also Angrar Robotics (from Rifts Mercenaries) is the first mention of Demonic Power Armor that i remember in the books. I'm guessing that would be kind of popular during the Minion Wars. Or impopular depending on how you look at it.

He is also locked on to some planet or dimension and can't get away from that. But perhaps during Megaversal Armageddon, as i believe you put it in another thread, he might get lose?

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:21 pm

Aramanthus wrote:Another interesting tidbit! Thanks Carl!

Oh that's not from me. The info on Medeus was in D&G. The book was tied to my hip when I was writing Hades. It has lots of useful info in there.

Carl

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:24 pm

anarchclown wrote:While we are on the subject about the Pantheons of the Megaverse book. You could probably use Ahriman too. I think it says that he is specifically looking for allied forces of Darkness across the megaverse. Also Angrar Robotics (from Rifts Mercenaries) is the first mention of Demonic Power Armor that i remember in the books. I'm guessing that would be kind of popular during the Minion Wars. Or impopular depending on how you look at it.

He is also locked on to some planet or dimension and can't get away from that. But perhaps during Megaversal Armageddon, as i believe you put it in another thread, he might get lose?

I've used Ahriman (well his minions anyway) in one of my Rifts campaigns. In fact I think I make mention of him being stuck in a dimension called the Infinity Labyrinth. Its a dimensional prison that maybe someday I'll write up.

Carl

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:29 pm

Land of the Damned has a lot on the Minion War also but I am going to assume that you already knew that. :-D

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:21 pm

anarchclown wrote:Land of the Damned has a lot on the Minion War also but I am going to assume that you already knew that.

My inspiration actually 8-)

Carl

Sgt Anjay · Unread post by **Sgt Anjay** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:14 pm

Well, one issue is how old is Hades the god(and the Olympians in general), and how old is Hades the place? CB2 states that the Olympians did originate on Earth, and also mentions they encountered the Atlanteans early in their history (its not quite clear whether they mean early in the Atlanteans' history or the Olympians history). That gives a general range for their age, at least in Earth terms. How that might translate to Palladium beats me, but considering Palladium's 100+ thousand year history, it makes them seem kinda young to have that demon dimension named after him.
It does also state the Olympians have been notorious conquerors, taking down other pantheons as their worshipers war with those of their rivals. Perhaps, if he's taking over the realms of other pantheons' dark gods as the Olympians take them down, his individual realm could be particularly large or well known megaverse-wide, despite Modeus' position in the politics of Hades. Much like when people say "America" they think of the United States rather than Canada or Mexico or any of the South American countries.
Oh, and Modeus definately didn't defeat Hades to become Lord of Hades. In my copy of the Rifts Conversion Book (says its the fifth printing- October 1996) it states under Mictla's entry that Mictla was the previous Lord, that Modeus and Mictla battled for three hundred years, and that Mictla eventually bargained because he believed he was slowly loosing and they struck a deal. It also states, under Modeus's entry, that "he has dominated the realm of Hades for eons", which brings up again just how old the Olympians are megaversally speaking, since they're made to seem far more recent despite the name of that dimension.
One thing about Hades is he doesn't seem to be the type to go off on his own conquering, and theres no hint he's fallen from a loftier position. In his entry in CB2 the "Enemies" section lists only Succor-Bemoth, and only because he was nearly killed when he entered Hades' realm without permission and holds a grudge against Hades. One would think someone who toppled Hades in an earlier time would be listed among his enemies. His entry does make special mention of his loyalty and dedication to Zeus as leader of the pantheon, how he rarely leaves his kingdom, and how he considers his role sacred. It also makes mention of agreements with neighboring demon lords.
I dunno, maybe its just me, but after reading the history of the Olympians and his entry in CB2, I dont see him as a primeval Lord of an eons old dimension who has fallen from total power, or as a schemer involved in the convoluted politics of Hades.

Nekira Sudacne · Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:24 pm

I'm quite certain it said that Hades, where the Greek God Hades rules, is different from the Hades where demons rule.

You know, kind of like how the Three Galaxies has 17 different "earths"

Sgt Anjay · Unread post by **Sgt Anjay** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:32 pm

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I'm quite certain it said that Hades, where the Greek God Hades rules, is different from the Hades where demons rule.

You know, kind of like how the Three Galaxies has 17 different "earths" ;)

Actually.....it never said that. Not in Pantheons of the Megaverse, anyway.
It said that Hades' personal kingdom is named Hades. It said that Hades has the Interdimensional Prison of Tartarus in his realm. It says he has borders with Demon Lords, and he has to guard against raids, but that he's so singularly powerful in his own realm that none dare challenge his power. It says he has treaties with some of his Demon Lord neighbors to stop raids being launched from their realms into his. It says Succor-Bemoth once came into his realm and was punished severely, and Succor-Bemoth holds a grudge to this day. And it says that Hades commands the demons known in Palladium as the Hordes of Hades, which live in the Palladium dimension known as Hades.
Seems like, if not the same place, then its one intimately tied to it.

devillin · Unread post by **devillin** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:53 am

Here's a thought:
Instead of having one over-all ruler of Hades, why not have the rulership set up like a corporation. There is a CEO, in this case Hades, who has overall control of Hades and who's position is involatile. Then you have the equivalent of a President, like Asmodeus and others, who run the day to day operations. Both are very powerful, but the President answers to the CEO.

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:52 pm

I usually do not pay too much attention to first conversion book since that was written during the time when I believe KS still was considering making gods and demon lords be alien intelligences. It actually describes Modeus as a lump of flesh with lots of tentacles and eyes that only takes humanoid form to deal with humans and their ilk that also has 90.000 M.D.C. I am just going to assume neither of those two facts are going to be used by CG for his book since he seems to be working more along the lines of what is printed later in Dragons & Gods and Land of the Damned 1.

And seriously since he is pretty much writing the bible on the subject he can keep or change as much as he likes as far as i am concerned. I was just asking if he would include the god Hades since i thought it could be a cool idea to have him play some part in the Minion Wars. I know I will with Mr Glebas help or not. :)

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:12 pm

I actually did dismiss a lot of what was in the CB1 in favor of D&G. I wish you were around when I was writing Hades because you made me stop and think anarchclown! I don't know if I would have come up with the same idea I have now. Anyway the idea could merit a second Hades book, maybe a small 64 or 96 pager and how the god Hades is using the Minion War to um well...

I just keep that to myself for now

Carl

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:39 am

Sounds like fun. And FYI I think i am one of a very small number of people in Sweden that has actually played rifts since 91 so I was around back then as well. I just didn't post on the forum.

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:10 am

Don't mention anything involving clones.

9voltkilowatt · Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:30 pm

anarchclown wrote:Don't mention anything involving clones.

Darkmax wrote:I have no idea where that comes from....

Wasn't there like a half million of your clones running around the Network Omni News thread there for awhile Darkmax? Maybe he's having flashbacks about that. :lol:

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:23 am

I guess i am the only one still experiencing post event trauma from the whole clone ordeal in Spiderman.

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:09 pm

So now that i have the book. And it sure took a while to get it here in Sweden. I can just say. Well done. And I like that you upped some of the demons. On the subject of Hades and Hades. Which is what this old thread is about. Maybe Hades is the Nightlord of Hades. Meaning in the Nightlands attached to the dimension Hades there lives the god Hades.

More on this later when i have cured this headache i just gave myself.

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:03 pm

Well I'm glad you liked what you read so far. I can't take credit for the old demons. Those are all KS. The new ones are my creation.

Enjoy,

Carl

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:11 pm

Josh Hilden wrote:THREAD NECROMANCY!!!!

SHOOT FOR THE HEAD!!!!

Of all the posters on these boards I would think you'd appreciate undead threads coming back to life! :lol:

Carl

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:43 pm

Um.. Actually i would suggest using silver weapons if it's a zombie thread.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:45 pm

Well a silver hammer might be the best of all worlds!

That'll put it down nice and quietly.

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:48 pm

I prefer screwdrivers

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:02 pm

Are we talking the drink or the tool? I think it would be great if vodka and orange juice could kill zombies!

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:34 pm

I kind of like frozen grasshopper myself. Of course that is more likely to turn me in to a zombie the day after than actually helping me kill them.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:29 am

Yeah, but if you drink enough the zombies might think you are one of their own and not attack you.

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:36 pm

The little grasshopper from MIB is probably pretty ok to hunt zombies with though.

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:30 pm

[gnarled scottsman/on] A rusty screwdriver to the temple ye panzies.[gnarled scottsman/off]

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:35 pm

What is in a rusty screw driver? I know about the vodka and the orange juice. Maybe grenadien?

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:32 pm

Screwdrivers are tools, sometimes they rust with age.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:34 pm

I know!

Can't a person be just little silly once in awhile! :oops:

Especially with life kicking the crap out of some of us a little too much at times.

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:04 pm

No in fact you must be deadly serious at all times and on all occasions.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:17 pm

LOL Your funny! :lol:

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:38 pm

Yes its true I am Hillarious.

anarchclown · Unread post by **anarchclown** » Thu May 27, 2010 11:40 am

How is the book mentioned here coming along? Is the idea scrapped since a long while back or is it part of some sort of possible future plot?

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