TW Armor Help

[Jefffar]

Hey folks,

I got a player in game who is insistent on getting a TW armor that self repairs without additional PPE investment (basically a permant effect).

I've been looking for an example and not finding one. Does anybody know where an example is or have a spell chain which would enable the armor to regenerate itself?

I need to come up with costs and what not.

[asajosh]

If you have access to a Nazca Line Maker, combine MEd the Broken and a Permanency line.

Or maybe a circle inscribed in the armor, dunno circles so well.

[Mouser13]

GO to PFRPG and get a alcemist can't spell they can do it.

Though personally I would make it like a use create steel and you just have to had steel into it. THough a little be more crazy way is just make it like a weapons in World book 16. They are instant repair them selfs after 24 hours right? Or my memory going crazy.

Or when better find a way to use dragon bones from PFRPG to make perm spell mend the broken or just a high level invincleable armor it reg 1D6.

But if I was going to make an armor that reg I would use the invincleable armor since it is the only armor spell the regs. Though not a armor a spell you could use sorceous fury too it regs 1D4X10 per round or min can't remember.

[finn69]

Well, it depends on how "self-regenerating" you want it to be. Due to the limitations of techno-wizards and techno-wizardry, I don't think you'll be able to make one that automatically repairs all damage -- short of using bio-wizardry and/or rune magic, that is.

However, you might be able to add the ability to regenerate damage with a standard activation, or on ley lines. Your primary question should be if you want instant "healing" of damage to the armor, or if you want it to continue to repair damage over an interval. The first will be cheaper (both to construct & to initiate), but the second will provide better protection.

After looking at the spells from RUE, I think some of the following might be good choices:

1. Electric Arc (8 PPE, red zircon 2000cr/carat) and Armor of Ithan (10 PPE, diamond 15000cr/carat). Aside from the fact that the gemstone is a lot cheaper, I like Electric Arc for the primary on this because a) it reminds me of an electric arc welder (which would be useful in repairing armor) and b) it gives a dice range for damage repair. The nice thing is, this allows a 1st-level TW to build this into a suit of armor. You need at least a 1-carat diamond and a 1-carat red zircon (although a larger zircon will cut down your PPE construction cost). Assuming 1-carat gemstones, the following info applies:
-- construction cost is 180 PPE, and activation cost is 9 PPE (or 18 ISP); modified by item level & carats in the primary gem.
-- Construction time is 18 hours (adding to existing technology), half if he has the appropriate skill for working on body armor; modify as per the prior item
-- Construction cost is 18,800 credits (15,000 for diamond, 2,000 for red zircon, 1,800 for other parts); larger zircons will add to the price, and higher-level items will require more expensive parts.
-- TW effect: armor regerates 2d6 M.D.C. per melee. Each activation allows the armor to regenerate for 1 minute (4 melees) per level.
-- Pros: both spells are known to all TWs; can be added by beginning TWs;
-- Cons: minor regeneration only; expensive components; higher-level installs only increase the duration of regeneration

As a further example, a higher-levell TW could create a 4th-level version of this that would regenerate for 4 minutes (16 melees) per activation. However, you'd want to at least use a 2-carat zircon, and you still have a construction cost of 360 PPE (18 x 10 x 4 / 2), an activation cost of 18 PPE (or 36 ISP), construction time of 144 hours (half with the appropriate skills), construction cost of 33,400 credits (15,000 + 2,000 x 2 + 14,400)... and it still only regenerates 2d6 M.D.C. per melee.

An alternative would be to use Armor of Ithan as the primary spell, with Electric Arc providing the "power" behind it. You would still be able to have a first-level TW build this item, and I could see the regeneration bumped up to a flat 10 M.D.C. per level. However, you also get a much more expensive product, and I would recommend having it changed from a time duration to an instant effect. Take a 4th-level version:
-- PPE construction cost is 360 (18 x 10 x 4 / 2), assuming a 2-carat diamond; construction time is 144 hours (or half with the appropriate skills); construction cost is 46,400 credits (15,000 x 2 + 2,000 + 14,400)
-- Activation cost will be 18 PPE (or 36 ISP), & each activation will immediately repair 40 M.D.C. to the armor.

2. Heal Self (20, red-orange agate 60 cr/carat), Armor of Ithan (10, diamond 15,000 cr/carat). Aside from Restoration, this is the only healing spell in RUE that can be used by a mage on themselves. Now, whether the GM would allow the other spells to be used or not is up to them; however, I think that, for self-repairing armor, limiting it to a spell that can be used on oneself sounds like a good idea. Based on the level of healing involved, this should provide double the regenerative powers versus Electric Arc. However, while the gemstones are much cheaper, you have two problems: a) it has a higher PPE cost involved; and b) the TW would either have to purchase the spell Heal Self (which would be expensive, and this spell is somewhat out of character for a TW) or depend on another practitioner (which adds a skill penalty).

Again, to compare a 4th-level version:
-- PPE construction cost is 600 (30 x 10 x 4 / 2), assuming a 2-carat agate & that the TW knows the spell; increase to 800 PPE ([20 x 1.5 + 10)] x 10 x 4 / 2)
-- Construction time is 240 (or 320) hours, half with the appropriate skills.
-- Construction cost is 39,120 [47,120] credits (15,000 + 60 x 2 + 24,000 [32,000]).
-- Activation cost is 30 [40] PPE, or 60 [80] ISP. Each activation will repair 4d6 M.D.C. per melee, with a duration of 4 minutes (16 melees).

I would almost recommend with these that PPE storage start being incorporated. Although it will increase the cost (materials & PPE) & time to build, it will make the PPE cost somewhat more bearable. Plus, you could then sell it to non-mages & non-psychics.

3. Restoration (750, red-orange agate 60 cr/carat), Armor of Ithan (10, diamond 15,000 cr/carat), Electric Arc (8, red zircon 2,000 cr/carat). This is not for armor "regeneration" per se, in the sense that the armor doesn't regenerate damage over time. Instead, each activation will instantly repair all damage suffered by the armor.
For a device like this, you really don't need to have any item level higher than 1st, because you're not going to need a duration. However, for comparison's sake, I'll assume they wanted a 4th-level version:
-- PPE construction cost is 15,360 PPE (768 x 10 x 4 / 2), or 22,860 PPE ([750 x 1.5 + 18] x 10 x 4 /2) if the TW doesn't know Restoration; this assumes only a 2-carat agate. Given the high PPE cost, I would seriously recommend at least a 40-carat agate, which would reduce the cost to 768 [1,143] PPE.
-- Base construction time is 308 [458] hours, half with the right skills, assuming the 40-carat agate is used (otherwise, it jumps to 6,144 [9,144] hours).
-- Construction cost is 50,120 [65,120] credits (15,000 + 2,000 + 60 x 40 + 30,720 [45,720])
-- Activation cost is 39 [58] PPE, or 78 (116) ISP, but all damage is instantly repaired.

Going with a 1st-level version, you'd have to find a mage that knows Restoration, & I would strongly recommend at least a 30-carat red agate. That cuts the PPE construction cost to 381, construction time to 39 hours (normal 1/2 rule applies), construction cost to 22,610 credits , and activation cost to 20 PPE or 40 ISP.

Again, I would strongly recommend that PPE storage be incorporated for this, as even with a 1st-level device & large agate stone you have a fairly high activation cost (equal to recharging a TK-Machinegun).

Thoughts? Comments?

those are some very cool ideas. my idea was to use mend the broken so that the armor would repair X ammount of MDC per X ammount of PPE pumped into the device.

[Jefffar]

The player seems to have focused on the regeneration effect of Invincible armour as the ideal . . . the big thing is he wants the effect always on.

[Jefffar]

He's singled it out as the regenerative effect he's looking for.

He's actually dismised the idea of an armour that can produce the spell on demand because he

1) Doesn't want to be spending PPE (I've run him low or out in some battles)

2) Wants the armour to repair, not just the extra field around the armour - he's seen how much his PA wearing companion goes in for armour repairs.

Interestingly enough, the Invincible Armour spell cannot be cast on Robots or Power Armour - he is looking to have this affect applied to a magic PA. So I'm wondering if the TW conversion might or might not override this limitation.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Hey folks,

I got a player in game who is insistent on getting a TW armor that self repairs without additional PPE investment (basically a permant effect).

I've been looking for an example and not finding one. Does anybody know where an example is or have a spell chain which would enable the armor to regenerate itself?

I need to come up with costs and what not.

Tell said player if he wants magic armor that does that, it can't be a TW armor. Because being a TW item means that it is powered by the mage wearing it. End Of Story! *thwacks idiot player across the head*
(is not sujesting actually thwacking said player, stating a feeling of utter disgust at the stupidity of the idea said player sujested in a form everyone can relate to)

Now for some useful sujestions.

Have the armor have a TW enchantment of 'mend the broken' with it own PPE payload of 120 PPE, which is enough to repair 4 MDC or 240 SDC to the armor. Since its a TW enchantment the mage has to activate the enchantment for it to start working, but he can augment the available PPE to the enchantment from his own PPE base.

While it does not repair itself quickly, it does let the mage repair the armor w/o having to know the 'mend the broken' spell. And if you as the GM are feeling generous you can have extra spots in the battery section of the armor to let the Char fill with additional gems, more PPE payload, as he adventures. This also let you as GM take away said extra PPE payload capacity by having the gems crumble from fatiage of costent use.

[Mouser13]

Personally this is a not possible with techno-wizard though if you would allow it.

Well maybe he can get his hands on one of those naruni force fields by the grace of gods open without it going boom and add in some dragon bones. YOu could allow him to make it perm. Or just any design using dragon bones since in PFRPG they can make spells perm Though they have to put in body in PFRPG. Maybe require the use of dragon blood like they did with Dragon Juicer. Would be the route I would go. If he wants to use inv armor I would make him include create steal in the contruction cost. THough personally I think mend the broken would be the best route.

[Mouser13]

He's singled it out as the regenerative effect he's looking for.

He's actually dismised the idea of an armour that can produce the spell on demand because he

1) Doesn't want to be spending PPE (I've run him low or out in some battles)

2) Wants the armour to repair, not just the extra field around the armour - he's seen how much his PA wearing companion goes in for armour repairs.

Interestingly enough, the Invincible Armour spell cannot be cast on Robots or Power Armour - he is looking to have this affect applied to a magic PA. So I'm wondering if the TW conversion might or might not override this limitation.

1.) you could make so he use P.P.E. clips.
2.) As said I think create steel would be good with invi armor.
Or he could make a newer form of the cystral armor using P.P.E. clips has fuel.

Has said before thing a forcefield and inv armor would be a good combo.

Though I think you should make him use something special has part of the making, like dragon bones/blood. Xanitum cystals anything that would be rare since this is only done by Alchemist in PFRPG.

I think it would not forsure but didn't a rifter allow this after world book 16 came out they came out with alot of costs for new techno-wizard improvements.

[Jefffar]

Actuallyllly, I was looking at Mend Metal (Earth Warlock spell) with Invincible Armour, but that still doesn't create a permant, on going effect.

Though now he is willing to have a permant, ongoing, no extra PPE required Invincible Armour instead of applying it to a physical armour.

Still not possible by TW to my knowledge (yet similar permant spells do appear on some items . . . but no rule on how it gets there, arrrrrrgh!!!)

[finn69]

diabolism permancy ward from palladium fantasy

[Jefffar]

You'd also need a ward for invincible armour - which doens't exist to my knowledge.

We are also looking at a Rifts centric proposal, somethign you could reasonably expect to pick up in Lazlo, New Lazlo, Tolkeen or FoM.

[Neorealist]

As the 'Idiot' (thanks drewkitty) player in question; i think i'll chime in to hopefully clarify my suggestion.


My idea was to create a PA that used the Invincible Armor spell as it's armor and enviromental systems; basically it'd be an exoskeleton (the 'guts' of the PA if you will) that is sheathed in self-regenerating magical force rather than the conventional MDC materials they are traditionally armored with.

Since there was a specific gem that is used for the 'Invincible Armor' invocation (Diamond) and numerous examples of TW items with permanent effects (for example the original TW Power armor) I thought to my self it should be feasible, or at least doable. (costs in time and money would likely be prohibitive, but c'est la vie eh?)

And so i approached my GM (Jefffar) with the idea, and here we are.

[Library Ogre]

If you're looking at the original PA as an example, realize that you're going to need a shell. I'd suggest starting with a Chipwell Challenger armor, and replacing its current power system with a TW Battery system (as per the RMB), and enhancing it with Invincible Armor and various weapon add-ons.

[Jefffar]

Invincible Armour can be found in the Book of Magic, I beleiv it first appeared in the older version of Federation of Magic.

[asajosh]

There is a spell that I cannot recall the name of (lifesource or life force, something like that) that draws HP/SDC and converts it to PPE to power a spell. Maybe incorporate that into your armor for an "endless" effect.

[Jefffar]

I'm sure he'd love to fuel his armour with SDC and HP instead of PPE, I think it would make him feel much better protected.

[Neorealist]

I'm sure he'd love to fuel his armour with SDC and HP instead of PPE, I think it would make him feel much better protected.

That would be better than spending PPE; (for a certain ratio of cost to effect of course.) PPE is much more valuable to my pc than his personal SDC in a majority of possible situations.

[Jefffar]

Well, IIRC it's 2 SDC or 1 HP to PPE.

The PPE cost will probably be somewhere between 30 and 60 PPE a pop with a duration of a few minutes each.

At that point I think the armour is more dangerous to you than going without.

[Neorealist]

Hence the "for a certain ratio of cost to effect of course". 30 SDC per minute is not quite what i had in mind; 1 SDC per 30 minutes is a little more my style.

[Jefffar]

Probably about the equivalent to 10 - 20 SDC (5 - 10 HP) per minute when the math is done.

More if you want other features involved in the armour of course.

[asajosh]

Well, IIRC it's 2 SDC or 1 HP to PPE.

The PPE cost will probably be somewhere between 30 and 60 PPE a pop with a duration of a few minutes each.

At that point I think the armour is more dangerous to you than going without.

Spells get modified all the time to suit TW items.

[asajosh]

Don't forget to incorporate some Gantrium (PF WB 13: Northern Hinterlands). Spells cost half as much PPE, and the wearer will recover PPE at 2x the rate. A network of wiring inside said armor or maybe a collar.

[Neorealist]

yeah, & all he has to do is take the time/money/whatever to get to the PF world, assuming the character is even aware of it...

ironically enough? the character in question is a wolven mage-knight originally from the northern Hinterlands on the palladium homeworld, so it's not as far-fetched as you'd think

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

I actually created one of these "Invincible Armors" once....the PC's killed it in like one melee. That sucked. But the point is I modeled it off of the Original Rifts TW-Armor. As in from the original rifts book that came out 30 or so years ago. Works very well, but I gotta say the Original TW-Armor was kinda powerful. After you adjust the power creep up its really just munchkin. I can post the stats if you like. Matter of fact, I can post the stats to both the Original and my own.

[asajosh]

yeah, & all he has to do is take the time/money/whatever to get to the PF world, assuming the character is even aware of it...

ironically enough? the character in question is a wolven mage-knight originally from the northern Hinterlands on the palladium homeworld, so it's not as far-fetched as you'd think

It wasn't irony, I'm psychic!

Theres lots a ways for a character to learn about other-worldly minerals, especially ones that improve magic (I think its a safe bet that spell casters are most likely to be dimension hoppers). Just depends on where your GM wants to take the story.

[Jefffar]

The problem with 2 is Invulnerable armour regnerates itself, it doens't repair things.

You'd need either Mend the Broken or Create Steel or something like that in the mix too.

[Thinyser]

Sounds like the players Idea would be better brought to life with tech FF instead of Technowizardry.

I would say that this would be a spiffy fold up "Naruni Tripple F" armor

Its an exoskeleton that folds into a backpack.

It gives the wearer the same 160 MDC as a naruni Super-heavy FF.

It offers enhanced strength (robotic PS 25), wearer can run at speed of 120 and tires only at 1/10 normal rate and the wearer can jumg 10 feet vertically and 15 horazontally from a standing start double with a running start.

Super quiet and light weighs only 75 lbs and -05% on prowl and adds 15% to the climb abity!

A mask flips over face and covers mouth, nose, and eyes providing filtered and overpressurized air to keep out any toxins.

Has built in power cell that provides 24 hours of opperation but this is usually used as a back up, E-clips are use as the primary energy source.

Runs for 3 hours on an eclip.

1.2 million credits.

[Mouser13]

Don't forget to incorporate some Gantrium (PF WB 13: Northern Hinterlands). Spells cost half as much PPE, and the wearer will recover PPE at 2x the rate. A network of wiring inside said armor or maybe a collar.

yeah, & all he has to do is take the time/money/whatever to get to the PF world, assuming the character is even aware of it...

You can get gantrium in the altanis underground though the pen if found out is death my a bio-wizard. It is in the rings of elders text in Col Wars book one I believe.

[JTwig]

Hey folks,

I got a player in game who is insistent on getting a TW armor that self repairs without additional PPE investment (basically a permant effect).

I've been looking for an example and not finding one. Does anybody know where an example is or have a spell chain which would enable the armor to regenerate itself?

I need to come up with costs and what not.

According to the Federation of Magic book the Magic Zone has alchemist. In PFRPG there is an regeneration magic enhancement that can be added by an alchemist. Might want to try that instead.

[JTwig]

hmm...
what about the mystic PA design that they had in the last book of siege on tolkeen?
Modify for defensive rather than offensive combat
There were also a couple of cool ideas for armor in the black vault
also, you could personalize a suit from arzno
the regen loop is a bad idea
you could just come up with some handwavium, but constant on regenning mystic PA sounds like it needs more than a few serious penalties to keep this game under control
Make it a PPE or HP vampire
make it eat the materials it needs to regen
actually, that kind of makes it either rune armor, or a splicer suit.

Isn't there a couple of mystic power armors in one of the South America books? Particulary the one dealing with the new Incan Empire. Those could be used for some ideas.

[Mouser13]

Can't remember the Tolkeen has robots that reg, but can't remember if they list the spells used. THough I memory thinks it used elementals trap in the armor.

[Mouser13]

Can't remember the Tolkeen has robots that reg, but can't remember if they list the spells used. THough I memory thinks it used elementals trap in the armor.

nope
I'm talking about the dynamo suit

Well, I was just adding they created those power-armor and robats that reg.

[AlanGunhouse]

It is possible to have some permanent effects of a TW or EW item, but in general they are less major than the primary effect of the item. While it seems to me to be an attempt at a "Munchkin" item, I might suggest it could be done using a Life Source spell in the spell chain so that the energy it takes to run the repair function is slowly replaced by the wearer during those times when it is not in use. Yes, you will need Energy Sphere in the spell chain too, to act as the PPE battery, and probably Invincible Armor...

Most likely the player would have to permanently sacrifice a number of hit points to bond the suit to them, said hit points being drained as soon as they would normally heal to power the suit. No item of this power level should exist without some price being paid to have it.

You might also look into Rifts China 2 for Demon Skin, an MDC material that regenerates as part of its normal functions. Demon Skin Armor from page 149-150 could be a good base for what you are trying without some of the high powered magic.

[AlanGunhouse]

I believe there is actual enchanted armor that is either regenerative or invulnerable. I was looking for an answer to the question, rather than trying to avoid it by going into abilities of a different class