TRIAL RULES - force field generators

[Braden Campbell]

I am going to put this up here for the Dimension Book people to have a look at, since I don't think I will get to play test them. It is from the manuscript for Thundercloud Galaxy, and contains guidelines for the generation of force fields.

Force Field Generators

The ability to erect force fields is found in nearly every corner of the Three Galaxies. Most common are the shields built into the hulls of starships and space fighters, followed by the much smaller personal protective fields sold by Naruni Enterprises and the Hartigal Combine. A third type also exists; a generator which is able to project a force field around a set diameter, and is also somewhat portable. Manufacturers use the term “somewhat portable” because the weight of the generator is directly proportional to the size and strength of the field. This means that a force field big enough to encompass a small encampment can be easily loaded into a hover truck, but a generator designed to cover a large building will weigh several tons and will require special equipment to move. Force fields have several notable properties which user must be made aware of:

• The shield put out by a portable generator is not variable like those found on spacecraft. It is a bubble radiating outwards from its point of origin in completely equal amounts. Provided it has enough power, the strength of the field will continually renew itself, but attempting to shift its focus (as one can with variable fields) will simply cause the bubble to collapse.

• Although force fields will block incoming solid objects like bullets, and will interfere with photon wave mechanics (thereby stopping lasers and other energy blasts), they are porous. Force fields will offer no protection from liquids or gasses, both of which pass right through them as they weren’t even there.

• One may shoot out of a force field freely, since any bullets or blasts fired from within the protected area are traveling in the same direction as the field is: i.e. outwards from a central point of origin.

• Force fields mask all bio-signs and heat signatures. Motion trackers likewise cannot penetrate them. They also mask neutron seepage; the telltale giveaway of a running nuclear or antimatter reactor. The field itself cannot be hidden from sensors in any way. What this means is that although an enemy can easily tell when and where a force field is running, they will have no idea of what is behind the field – it could be a child holding a bag of rocks, or it could be an entire tank platoon!

• Visually, the force field is completely transparent, with just a slight flicker in the air.

• As usual, all phase powers are stopped by a force field. Teleportation, whether by magical or technological means is similarly stopped.

Important buildings and large military installations will be protected by generators the size of a house, but sometimes a smaller field is sent to one of the outlying colonies. The Consortium, the Transgalactic Empire, and the Golgan produce such units in abundance. Through them, portable generators eventually find their way into the hands of second-rate powers like the Free Worlds Council, the Trensik Corps, the Central Alliance, space pirates, and even the occasional Denlech commando team.

Weight: The generator itself is quite bulky. Its weight averages one pound (half a kilogram) for every two points worth of M.D.C. protection.

Mega-Damage: Equal to the total area, in feet, covered by the field, and multiplied by two. As an example, a 40 by 40 foot building with a force field generator running inside of it, would be protected by (40x40)x2 = 3200 mega-damage. The total MDC of the field will regenerate as long as there is power running to it. Rate of regeneration is 5% per melee round

Duration: A nuclear fusion battery will provide the generator with enough power for an entire year. In an emergency, it could be jury rigged to work with other sources (e-clips or power packs), but these wouldn’t last for very long.

Market Cost: 250,000 for a one-year nuclear battery, plus 100 credits for every point of M.D.C. on the force field.

[Nikoli]

Can I ask a logic question here?

If outbound lasers are not blocked, why are outbound energy signature tells blocked?

If anything it should block your ability to use sensors as it disrupts inbound energy transmisisons.

[Aramanthus]

Very nice set of rules Braden! I'll happy to see them in print form along with your book! I'll try them out when I run next time.

[glitterboy2098]

Can I ask a logic question here?

If outbound lasers are not blocked, why are outbound energy signature tells blocked?

If anything it should block your ability to use sensors as it disrupts inbound energy transmisisons.

definately a major flaw in the concept.

having shields block thermal readings has a few unavoidable side effects in other areas.
1) blocking heat transfer/radiation means that the space inside the shield heats up quickly. since i doubt the designers would want to broil users of their products, having shields block heat ransfer, thus creating an oven , isn't going to happen.

2) Thermal imaging is the passive detection method for space craft. space craft will stick out like sore thumbs on IR systems from their reactors, life support, and crew metabolism, much less dumping the heat from said systems out radiators (i usually assume the "exhaust streams" in the art are actually radiator systems actively dumping heat, as CG drives are reactionless.)
have shields stop the heat and you make all ships stealth ships. which makes combat much more difficult since passive sensors won't see the enemy and turning on the active sensors makes you a nice big target for all the enemy to shoot at using passive sensors for targeting.

3) heat is merely energy levels. in space it's transfered by radiation, high energy photons. in an atmosphere, it's transfered by gas and liquid. so if shields cannot stop gas or liquid, and photons can pass through from inside to out, how is it stopping the heat? you can't have it both ways.

[Braden Campbell]

Can I ask a logic question here?

If outbound lasers are not blocked, why are outbound energy signature tells blocked?

I was thinking that the power of the force field would "white out" anything hiding behind it. Perhaps I should say something like that in the text...

[glitterboy2098]

• Although force fields will block incoming solid objects like bullets, and will
interfere with photon wave mechanics (thereby stopping lasers and other energy blasts),
they are porous. Force fields will offer no protection from liquids or gasses, both of
which pass right through them as they weren’t even there.

photon wave mechanics ? yeah, I suppose so. That fits the Naruni section.

do "continuous" ones muffle sound ? TK FF psi-power: The TK Force Field is actually a
force bubble and is airtight, with enough air inside for the duration of the field.
Which means it should muffle the sound of someone inside yelling or shooting (with the extent
left to the gm). However airtight is air-tight.

Radio-waves aren't bothered right ? If I trap someone inside an area-effect FF or a TK-FF
they radio out and let someone down the block know, right?

a TK forcefield is different from a tech FF.
as for sound, i don't see how they can. sound is merely vibrations in a gas/liquid/solid. and FF's don't block gas/liquids, and don't propogate through solids.

• Force fields mask all bio-signs and heat signatures. Motion trackers likewise
cannot penetrate them. They also mask neutron seepage; the telltale giveaway of a running
nuclear or antimatter reactor. The field itself cannot be hidden from sensors in any way.
What this means is that although an enemy can easily tell when and where a force field is
running, they will have no idea of what is behind the field – it could be a child holding a bag of rocks, or it could be an entire tank platoon!

Continuous ones should, so radar would bounce off them ? Then it also block radio signals
from inside the FF to outside. Sounds like most starships would have to drop FF to call
out or have an antenna that sticks out beyond the FF bubble (depending on how the GM sees
it).

if set to do so, radar would bounce off, but you'd get a reduced return. some of the radio waves would be deflected away from the reciever. you wouldn't be able to pick up radar returns from within your own shields either.

as for ships inside shields sending signals, yes they could. Radio waves are basically high wavelength light. so if lasers can get out, radio can.

• Visually, the force field is completely transparent, with just a slight flicker
in the air.

Sounds right. Cheapo ones might have distortions, but that's the GMs call.

• As usual, all phase powers are stopped by a force field. Teleportation, whether
by magical or technological means is similarly stopped.

yeah.

as i detailed in my techmanual, FF's basicly work by setting up a gravity "shell' of very low strength, which serves to detect incoming attacks passing through it, thus activating the shields gravity generators to throw up a "shot" of anti-gravity at the attack, which deflects or dissapates the hit.

that "shell" would cause the shimmer effect in the atmosphere, as it uses minute power to effect dust particles and other solids suspended in the atmosphere.

it's also why shields can detect things using phase tech to hide/pass through matter. (not so much out of phase as selectively adjusting the position of atoms to pass through the gaps between other atoms. this is why a person in a phase field doesn't suffocate or fall through the floor)

Important buildings and large military installations will be protected by generators the size of a house, but sometimes a smaller field is sent to one of the outlying colonies. The Consortium, the Transgalactic Empire, and the Golgan produce such units in abundance. Through them, portable generators eventually find their way into the
hands of second-rate powers like the Free Worlds Council, the Trensik Corps, the Central Alliance, space pirates, and even the occasional Denlech commando team.

I believe the Center writeup at the beginning of DB2 says Center has these and uses them
as invisible walls (might not be in so many words).

you could definately use them as security fields, like in star trek. just not to seal off holes in the hull or create an air hatch.

[taalismn]

Pretty comprehensive(with fine tuning) overview of the subject

[Carl Gleba]

Nice

I'll have to give them a try out in the future and let you know.

Carl

[KLM]

Not bad.

How about FF-s used for sealing a corridor - ie. non-spherical ones?

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

ADDENDUM:

After some discussion, we are also running up against the problem of radio. Obviously, signals could be sent out from behind a force field, but any incoming radio wave would, like a laser, be bounced back.

Tachyons, which are used in FTL communication, should be able to pass through the field... but soldiers on the ground with radios? Or is this just one of the drawbacks to protecting yourself with a big bubble?

Variable force fields, since they can be rotated, wouldn't have this problem as far as I can see. Therefore ships in a fleet should have no trouble communicating with each other.

[KLM]

Or just extend an antenna out of the bubble...?

Adios
KLM

[glitterboy2098]

a TK forcefield is different from a tech FF.
as for sound, i don't see how they can. sound is merely vibrations in a gas/liquid/solid. and FF's don't block gas/liquids, and don't propogate through solids.

I didn't say they were, however I expect my techs in my PW uni to be able to mimic a TK FF with a FF.

then it behaves like a TK FF and not a tech one. the methods of operation are different, which is why the game mechanics are different.

I know that's very Star Trek-ish (meaning magic) but that's the way I am. There seems to be enough evidence that ultra-high-technology can do almost anything magic can in the PB game setting. So why not psionics ?

you mean Star Wars-ish. (meaning magic.)
Trek at least has defined methodology and some elements of consistancy.
star wars just makes **** up as it goes along, and nothing is consistant.

as mentioned above, you might be able to duplicate TK FF using technology. but you'd basically be building a Psitech device, channelling psi energy into the desired result.

I think the Aluta in Aliens Unlimited have psionic FF tech. I remember Wayne Breaux typing about it.

sure, which means they have tech to create Psionic FF's. still doesn't mean they work the same as 3G's FF's.

the 3G's FF's are based on typical uses in scifi. these are typically described as gravity manipulators, using gravity or anti-gravity to deflect incoming fire. they are basically a "gravity gun", creating areas of altered space directly in front of the projectile/beam.

they are Reactive, only engaging when incoming fire is detected. all other times they are not there. which is why air/water isn't stopped. and why you could pass right through from the inside, or extend an antenna out through it.

since they are reactive, they are transparent. after all, you only see anything if it gets hit. so light, heat, and microwaves (radio) can get through at normal levels. a strong burst of EM radiation, be it light, X-rays, microwaves, or the like, would be detected and probably counted as hostile. which is why radar and lasers would be stopped.

since FF's allow weapons fire to exit the field, it means they are selective. so it should be possible to set your fields to ignore EM radiation under a certain strength. if so, you could easily pick up radar returns or directional radio signals aimed at you.

the same would go for matter. you could set the field to ignore mass under a certain velocity and/or size, or ignore various combinations of mass/velocity. so that railguns or bullets get stopped but a person can walk through. that however is probably not very common.

[Qev]

They also mask neutron seepage; the telltale giveaway of a running nuclear or antimatter reactor.

I think you might mean neutrino seepage. If your reactor is leaking neutrons, you've got a serious problem on your hands.

Personally, I like the idea of force fields having certain drawbacks accompanying their protection, such as the (one way) radio blackout effect. Since they permit outgoing matter/energy, however, I should think that passive sensors (eg. thermo-imagers, nightvision, and eyeballs) ought to be able to 'see' inside the field, for consistency's sake. I suppose the field could be somehow crafted to 'average' outgoing EM signals across its entire surface, masking what's inside, but this would hose your outgoing radio, too.

Not having force fields block gases does sort of eliminate one of those staples of science fiction: the atmosphere shields found on starship bay doors in any number of franchises. Then again, that could be explained as 'another kind' of force field (one that we can actually build IRL, oddly enough). Still, it would make yet another interesting drawback to force field defenses if you had to drop your base shields every once in a while just to get some fresh air.

[glitterboy2098]

you can't fly using gravity without using alot of it, yet i don't see you argueing there.

as for "too much for a belt unit", how do you know? we can't manipulate gravity, so who knows how powerful or compact the devices can be?

my point is that while the devices "might as well be magic", physics aren't. we have to handwave the existance of these devices, and play a little lose with their mechanisms because we don't have them in reality, but we can figure out "if it works X way the results will be Y, Z, A, and B"

this is unlike magic where the results have nothing to do with the causes or the means.

in this case, my explanations are consistant with the canon game material. while the effects are overstated compared to reality due to the handwave issue, we can look at those explanations to determain what would and would not work in situations not already covered in the canon.

in trek for example, many things work "because Roddenberry said so', like the transporters or warp drive. otherwise we don't get a show. but within the setting of trek, things work because of physics, and thats what i'm discussing here. phase world force fields work because Carella, and later Gleba, says so. but inside the setting of phase world things work because some genius figured out how to make contra-grav and apply it.

science fiction that just does things with tech willy nilly and ignores rationality and reason in regards to science is usually a bad read. even if the alternative is to deal with technobabble that explains what you handwaved in.

[glitterboy2098]

my point about the TK FF wasn't it can't be done technologically, it was that you can't take a CG FF and make it work like a TK FF. they are two different things and work two different ways. one is reactive, one is constant. a TK FF makes a constant barrier of 'whatever' energy to do the job, not twist space. it's comparing apples and oranges. both are fruit, but beyond that they have little in common.

as for creating reasonable explanations, your welcome to your opinion there. but remember other people will defer. myself i like having a reasonable explanation for this stuff, it helps define the setting better. plus it lets me look for new ways of using existing stuff thats not "i reverse the polarity in the deflector dish to create beam of anti-tachyon to seal the interspatial rift." as much as i like tech, the over use of deus ex machina voyager and TNG did annoys even me. i prefer my Phase world to be more B5 in style, but trek/starwars in theme.

[Aramanthus]

These are some interesting thoughts on the permability of force fields to radio frequency. I think I'm going to continue to run mine like Honor Harrington universe.

[glitterboy2098]

my point about the TK FF wasn't it can't be done technologically, it was that you can't take a CG FF and make it work like a TK FF.

I don't use CG FF. I use an invisible momentary wall, something to intercept the energy and have it expended on that. I thought the Dune shields were nice, except the cruddy special effect (first movie). however I don't want things that blowup when intersected by a las-gun. Reminds me of Trek's overloading weapons.

the "invisible momentary wall" is basically what i use too, but instead of leaving it at that i dug up a technical explanation that was based on real world hypothetical concepts. same effect, different result. said concept also slots in well with the technology of Phase World, with their gravity control mastery.

[Braden Campbell]

I also hope Braden covers Phase Transceivers in detail.

It's a quantum entanglement device. Simple. It provides instantaneous travel over an unlimited volume of space by destroying the original, and recreating an exact duplicate on the other end (that's what the space gates do... make a duplicates based on information transmitted to them through the Cosmological Constant from the transceiver). But don't tell anybody, because they'll freak out and stop using them.

There's no way in hell that any other power in the 3 G's (besides the Prometheans that is) will ever be able to build one so... I guess they're free. And have an unlimited number of uses. And are the size of compact disk.

[Aramanthus]

Hmmm another very interesting tidbit Braden. Thank you for it!

[KLM]

Or just extend an antenna out of the bubble...?

Adios
KLM

Just depends on how permeable you want them.

His idea is that inside --> outside = no resistance. Mine would be: All or nothing.

Personal Forcefield only sprout when there's trouble, so it's no big deal for a character.

However for security it seems more appropriate that they block radio, or at least have some sort of jamming screen.

I've seen other RPGs that have an Annihilation Field, where anything that touches the field takes damage or is disintegrated. You can't have something sticking up out of those fields.

Hmm... Most of the time, these fields are covering something that
stands on the ground - ie. the field is in contact with the ground.

So, I guess sticking out an antenna isn't a big deal - however
it needs some tuning of the generator.

For my part, and extrapollating from the Ulti-Max, if you want to
fire out of the FF, you have to tune the FF generator to the gun.
Just my two cents.

Adios
KLM

[Nekira Sudacne]

Coming in late to the discussion: I disagree with them stopping magical teleportation although phase and technological teleportation makes sense.

Why? because phase and technological teleportation compress you down to a smaller pattern, then /physically/ move you to the new location.

Magical teleportation goes AROUND things, or really not. your here one moment, and there another. your /not/ moving though physical space, so really, why should a forcefeild stop it?

All things are not done the same manner.

[Aramanthus]

I also agree about force fields and magical teleportation.

[KLM]

Why? because phase and technological teleportation compress you down to a smaller pattern, then /physically/ move you to the new location.

Not neccessarily.

Phase teleportation seems to work on space-folding or
4th dimensional movement... And a force field is not
neccessarily a 4th dimensional object - therefore teleportation
can pass it, like we can step over a chalkline on the floor.

Adios
KLM

[glitterboy2098]

free and plop them in like a car stereo, sounds weird but might be close to what's happening. the only problem being who distributes them. a captain could visit Center then make a killing on selling these in planets beyond the Corkscrew, or evil dictator.

have to think that one over.

nah, the disks are free, but there is a service charge for using the gate after the first trip.

think about phase trancievers as the galactic equivilent of those AOL disks...

[Aramanthus]

But to get back to phase world in an instant might be worthwhile even with the cost if you consider the cargo they might be carrying.

[Braden Campbell]

If something is distributed for free, then it has no resale value.... much like those AOL disks.

the important thing, from the Promethean point of view, is tht ships come to Center to trade.

[Aramanthus]

I also thought there was an eventual charge on that transit. I know it's only one way.

[glitterboy2098]

But to get back to phase world in an instant might be worthwhile even with the cost if you consider the cargo they might be carrying.

true, but you can have a pretty sweet deal going with the gates. the transcievers are free, but gate fees must be payed, based on mass of the ship. then you have import fees on the cargo.

the big draw of course being that said fees would still be less than the operating cost of shipping the goods all the way conventionally.

of course, a small % of the profits of each major business that operates out of center could go to the prometheans as a sort of rent, as well.

and what do the prometheans do with all this wealth they generate? funnel it back into the galactic economy by investing it into other corporations, donating it to governments, and so on (sometimes directly, sometimes through third party fronts). which gives them immense political clout with nearly all the star nations. which they use to manipulate events in their favor. of course, the Agenda of the Prometheans is not known...

[Aramanthus]

I agree with you on that. And then coming several times a year to bring especially valuable cargo to phase world.

[Aramanthus]

How much do people charge for gate use any way?

[Aramanthus]

I remember Cibola, I'll have to check it out. THat book is sort of buried amongest the PB material. Thank you for the update Gadrin!