Eberron

[Library Ogre]

I believe Rifter #10 had some of that.

[Entiago]

well as far as all that goes, the PF world is not that far advanced yet. The peoples still rely on magic more then technology to get the job done, and IMHO, thats how I prefer it.

But Mr. Hall is right, Rifter 10 does provide and optional OOC called the Tinkereer and many of the "invention" of such an OCC. Such as Explosivis, Air Ships, steam vehicles, advanced traps, weapons, and objects.

Although alot of this stuff is cool, and the artical is well written. I prefer to allow my players not to get their hands on such things, especially in the PF world. Cause lets face it- If this stuff was common or even existed, then the Western Empire would rule the world with Black Deamon Air Ships. I mean seriously who would survive Deamons from above droping down like the airborne rangers?


But also in the old Adventures in the Norhtern Wilderness (IIRC) there is an airship of undead which was a cool adventure.

But as far as trains, submarienes or any thing eles of that nature would be devestating and change the whole world and setting, so then it wouldnt be PF any more...probably Advanced Palladium Fantasy.

[Natasha]

It wasn't a typical airship at all.

yea, great adventure

[t0m]

i would have a look at rifts vehicles for a base to start from. there must be a train in one of those books somewhere

as for opinions on whether is 'fits' or not, im torn. i wouldnt drop it into my current campaign, but if i was starting a new game i might consider giving the developed kingdoms a rail system or airships. its all in the back story really...look at the navy...ships are developed. the western empire goes nuts with demon ships, the rest of the world steps in, things go back to 'normal', and sea faring ships become a staple of life. you could easily say the same thing happened when air ships were re-discovered, or when some rifter came back and invented locomotives (magic or steam) with first hand knowledge from another dimension.

[Library Ogre]

well as far as all that goes, the PF world is not that far advanced yet. The peoples still rely on magic more then technology to get the job done, and IMHO, thats how I prefer it.

When you get right down to it, there is a very simple reason why people prefer magic to technology: magic had one Hel of a head start.

During the Age of Chaos, people learned magic because physical laws weren't constants... they changed at the whims of the Old Ones (and Men of Magic). After the Age of Chaos, P.P.E. was so high that many monsters would be M.D.C. creatures... requiring you to use magic or psionics to fight them, since your technology base still blows chunks.

It's not until after the Age of the a Thousand Magicks that things calm down enough that you can consider using technological weapons, and by that time, it's pretty culturally ingrained to send your smart people to learn magic, instead of studying "science."

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

well as far as all that goes, the PF world is not that far advanced yet. The peoples still rely on magic more then technology to get the job done, and IMHO, thats how I prefer it.

When you get right down to it, there is a very simple reason why people prefer magic to technology: magic had one Hel of a head start.

During the Age of Chaos, people learned magic because physical laws weren't constants... they changed at the whims of the Old Ones (and Men of Magic). After the Age of Chaos, P.P.E. was so high that many monsters would be M.D.C. creatures... requiring you to use magic or psionics to fight them, since your technology base still blows chunks.

It's not until after the Age of the a Thousand Magicks that things calm down enough that you can consider using technological weapons, and by that time, it's pretty culturally ingrained to send your smart people to learn magic, instead of studying "science."

and, do we really need technology when we have magic?

[Library Ogre]

and, do we really need technology when we have magic?

Well, look at it this way. Let's say that magic suddenly started working, today... BUT we have to figure almost everything out from first principles. We may know a few simple laws that you can intuit by observation, but we don't know any spells of any kind. Experimenting with spells is dangerous and frequently fatal (look at the results of botched scroll conversions; you tried to create a small light, and just summoned a fire elemental into your pants).

Now, given conditions today, people would still experiment with magic... being able to harness it would be valuable enough that some folks would take the risk. But in the early days of the Palladium World, it wouldn't have been worthwhile to likewise experiment with technology... you risk not only killing yourself, but your entire village, or clan, or nation with a mistake. And remember, the people of Palladium had a leg up in the magic department... the Old Ones did a lot of the heavy lifting, so to speak, and dimensional travelers gave them even more knowledge. In terms of technology, they're going to learn things that are simple, or are natural outgrowths of magic.. they'll learn to use iron in weapons because earth warlocks will be able to tell them the superior properties of iron when it's encountered, and they'll discard their less efficient copper (I'd be surprised if they went through a bronze stage, unless someone showed it to them from outside; alloys are not an intuitive step unless you're dealing with the physical, rather than metaphysical, properties of metal).

The tipping point comes when you find things magic cannot do, or cannot do as efficiently, and have people with the brainpower to devote to it. After the Elf-Dwarf War, these people became the dwarves. Most of the other average to high intelligence races are capable of magic; the only race without any magical or psychic potential at all are the troglodytes, and they're happy at their neolithic technology level. Even orcs, goblins, and hobgoblins are capable of being priests and witches.

But, after the Elf-Dwarf War, you've got a sizable society of intelligent creatures who have denied themselves access to most of the magical sciences, even sublimated their warlocks. Sure, many will go into the priesthood, but there's still the need for the fruits of magic, and without an outlet, the only way to go is the natural sciences... an entirely unnatural direction for a magical society. It is analogous, IMO, to the European awakening to natural sciences in the Renaissance after spending time on natural philosophy in the Middle Ages... a shift in how you approach things, with different ends in mind.

[Killer Cyborg]

But also in the old Adventures in the Norhtern Wilderness (IIRC) there is an airship of undead which was a cool adventure.

It wasn't a typical airship at all.

yea, great adventure

Our party still has that ship.

[Natasha]

But also in the old Adventures in the Norhtern Wilderness (IIRC) there is an airship of undead which was a cool adventure.

It wasn't a typical airship at all.

yea, great adventure

Our party still has that ship.

Unfortunately for me that party disbanded a while ago.