Page Count: 300+

Chuck Lang · Unread post by **Chuck Lang** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:47 pm

So I recently read Kevin's release about the size of the Robotech RPG. They're 120+ pages over their original count and their dilemma is to either cut content or increase the page count and the price by a buck or two.

I for one say, increase the cost! $18.95 for a 300+ manga sized book Robotech RPG book? That's a no-brainer!

Please increase the cost and don't cut the content! :ok:

MikeM · Unread post by **MikeM** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:05 pm

I agree 100%.
Palladium books are still cheaper than most on the market. Ill gladly pay an extra dollar or two for the extra pages.

MikeM

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:10 pm

I have just one thing to say,

GIVE ME MORE!

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:23 pm

print it as a normal sized book...dilemma solved.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:40 am

I'm going to get my copy as soon as it is available. I'm happy to see it's coming in that big!

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:22 am

I seriously doubt a non-roleplayer who happens to read manga will walk by the bookstore and see this book on the shelf and instantly fall in love with playing the robotech RPG because of the size of the book.

I understand they are just trying to get folks to PICK UP the book to get hooked, but the REAL problem is the internet... Most folks buy directly from the Palladium website because NOBODY carries Palladium products on the shelves anymore. The market is flooded with WotC stuff and thats it. Im no marketing major though, so take a peek at any major book store and check out the isle called "role playing" for yourself. Shoot, comic stores dont actively carry it either. Most will just tell you..."we can order it for you". Well crap...I can do that myself online...

Chuck Lang · Unread post by **Chuck Lang** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:49 am

Kagashi wrote:Shoot, comic stores dont actively carry it either. Most will just tell you..."we can order it for you". Well crap...I can do that myself online...

But when you order directly from Palladium don't you have to pay for shipping? I'm assuming that your LGS doesn't charge you shipping when you order books through them (at least none of my LGSs have ever charged me for shipping).

MikeM · Unread post by **MikeM** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:54 am

Kagashi wrote:I seriously doubt a non-roleplayer who happens to read manga will walk by the bookstore and see this book on the shelf and instantly fall in love with playing the robotech RPG because of the size of the book.

I understand they are just trying to get folks to PICK UP the book to get hooked, but the REAL problem is the internet... Most folks buy directly from the Palladium website because NOBODY carries Palladium products on the shelves anymore. The market is flooded with WotC stuff and thats it. Im no marketing major though, so take a peek at any major book store and check out the isle called "role playing" for yourself. Shoot, comic stores dont actively carry it either. Most will just tell you..."we can order it for you". Well crap...I can do that myself online...

Dude, that is so not true. All the comic shops/gaming stores in a 300 km radius of me carry Palladium books. In fact, it usually goes WotC, White Wolf, Palladium, GURPS and then everything else like Margaret Weis Productions, and Mongoose, etc.

MikeM

Chuck Lang · Unread post by **Chuck Lang** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:57 pm

MikeM wrote:
Kagashi wrote:I seriously doubt a non-roleplayer who happens to read manga will walk by the bookstore and see this book on the shelf and instantly fall in love with playing the robotech RPG because of the size of the book.

I understand they are just trying to get folks to PICK UP the book to get hooked, but the REAL problem is the internet... Most folks buy directly from the Palladium website because NOBODY carries Palladium products on the shelves anymore. The market is flooded with WotC stuff and thats it. Im no marketing major though, so take a peek at any major book store and check out the isle called "role playing" for yourself. Shoot, comic stores dont actively carry it either. Most will just tell you..."we can order it for you". Well crap...I can do that myself online...

Dude, that is so not true. All the comic shops/gaming stores in a 300 km radius of me carry Palladium books. In fact, it usually goes WotC, White Wolf, Palladium, GURPS and then everything else like Margaret Weis Productions, and Mongoose, etc.

MikeM

It definitely all depends on your location. The stores in the immediate area where I live (St. Cloud, MN) have stopped carrying Palladium products and will only order them because the books sit on the shelf too long. Whereas, just an hour away (Minneapolis, MN) those stores all carry Palladium products.

If you have a large enough population you'll generally be able to sell the product. St. Cloud is just too small and most of the gamer market is into D20, Margaret Weis Productions Cortex, or Warhammer (FB & 40K).

In any case, I'll be buying the new Robotech RPG and I'll really it with the increased page count.

Although, unlike others who have posted in this thread, I'll only buy one copy and maybe one copy of the larger size.

Armorlord · Unread post by **Armorlord** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:35 pm

MikeM wrote:
Kagashi wrote:I seriously doubt a non-roleplayer who happens to read manga will walk by the bookstore and see this book on the shelf and instantly fall in love with playing the robotech RPG because of the size of the book.

I understand they are just trying to get folks to PICK UP the book to get hooked, but the REAL problem is the internet... Most folks buy directly from the Palladium website because NOBODY carries Palladium products on the shelves anymore. The market is flooded with WotC stuff and thats it. Im no marketing major though, so take a peek at any major book store and check out the isle called "role playing" for yourself. Shoot, comic stores dont actively carry it either. Most will just tell you..."we can order it for you". Well crap...I can do that myself online...

Dude, that is so not true. All the comic shops/gaming stores in a 300 km radius of me carry Palladium books. In fact, it usually goes WotC, White Wolf, Palladium, GURPS and then everything else like Margaret Weis Productions, and Mongoose, etc.

MikeM

Indeed, besides my FLGS, even my local Barnes & Noble has some.

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:39 pm

Kagashi wrote:I seriously doubt a non-roleplayer who happens to read manga will walk by the bookstore and see this book on the shelf and instantly fall in love with playing the robotech RPG because of the size of the book.

I understand they are just trying to get folks to PICK UP the book to get hooked, but the REAL problem is the internet... Most folks buy directly from the Palladium website because NOBODY carries Palladium products on the shelves anymore. The market is flooded with WotC stuff and thats it. Im no marketing major though, so take a peek at any major book store and check out the isle called "role playing" for yourself. Shoot, comic stores dont actively carry it either. Most will just tell you..."we can order it for you". Well crap...I can do that myself online...

Yeah. DEFINATELY marketing has been majorly lacking. almost all the hoby / comic stores here in Toronto basicly couldn't give a rats wet behind about PBooks anymore. They were glutted with "mediocre, badly edited books...which were ALWAYS LATE IN BEING RELEASED" (Direct quote by the way of a store owner). Now? They carry WELL edited but pithily written and over priced White Wolf and D20 books. With little to no PBooks product.
Personaly, I HATE WW and D20.
I can see where the store owners are comming from though. IF potential customers are going to constantly be turned away due to no product on shelves on time, they will stop showing up to the stores, or will turn to other (albeit, more expensive and overblown) games. Thus the stores will give more priority to non-PBooks product... or just not carry them at all.

As for the theory on "getting new gamers into the fold by having convient manga size"...ummmmm
Not gonna happen.
A good 75 to 80% of the manga buying public in my city (I've been talking to the store owners), wouldn't touch RPG's of any sort with a 10 ft. cattleprod. All they want is their Deathnote, Bleach, Naruto and Yaoi manga.
Seriously.

-sigh-

In future...hang the gimmicks and just print the damned thing in NORMAL 8.5X11" format, because I DO want this game to succeed. I really really do.

shiiv-a · Unread post by **shiiv-a** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:15 pm

i agree ... sadly the local hobby / comic shop had ALL the PB stuff in a big bin and was willing to give it away as not worthy of attention.

why? ..

NOTHING was moving

the interest in the books and the like seemed to have wanned as people got interested in other things

me?

i really wished i had money when they were on sale .. cause its a 2 1/2 hour drive to the store in the first place. and now? .. sadly .. there are little funds left in my account. in fact i owe 17 bucks to the bank for using my debit card too often

*shrugs* thats life i guess. will have to order books or wait for x-mas bags ... speaking of which .. i need to set aside extra money when i DO get a job ... just to cover the few bags i wanna get.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:12 pm

I think it all really depends on your area - and what the locals want to play. I have lived in quite a different locations, Palladium has always had a decent to strong amount of people who wanted their product. They may never use the books, but they buy them.

If it wasn't for the fact WotC owns the rights to publish the Star Wars RPG, I would not play a d20 product.

But then again - lately I am attracted to games that are based on something easy to know the back story: Buffy/Angel, Firefly, Robotech, Star Wars, etc...

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:41 pm

Well, I used to live in a pretty big city, Omaha Nebraska...and there were no PB products on the shelf. Then I recently moved to the Dallas area...guess what? No PB products.

Not in Hastings, not in Barnes and Nobel, not in Waldens. Not in any comic shops (but they can order it).

WHo knows? Perhaps this manga stunt will get Palladium Books on the shelves again.

Cybermancer · Unread post by **Cybermancer** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:55 pm

Definitely keep content and jack the price a bit. I'd rather spend a little more on one book then significantly more spread over several books.

And while this is a tad off topic, the standard format would be superior. While I plan to buy the Manga sized edition, it'll sit on my shelf as a 'collectors novelty'. I'm waiting for a 'special edition' full size game to actually play with. I personally think this is a case of Palladium having a good idea, but getting the implementation backwards.

But yes, a bigger book is better and I will pay for it gladly.

Armorlord · Unread post by **Armorlord** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:56 pm

Probably end up on the manga shelves at some places. :lol:

Though that might help expose new manga-buying players to it.
I can say I am part of the manga buying public, but as a roleplayer I'd prefer the normal size. Which means as a fan I'll end up getting both.
Though to give you an idea which I value more, RP books are on my bookcases, manga are in drawers.

My main concern about getting the manga crowd is that the 300+ page ones I have tend to be about $14-15, and wondering if the small price difference will put off kids with allowance money. As long as the print quality is crisper than average manga that shouldn't be a problem.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:15 pm

For a product over 300 pages a price increase to $18.95 would be acceptable to me.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:06 am

Kagashi wrote:Well, I used to live in a pretty big city, Omaha Nebraska...and there were no PB products on the shelf. Then I recently moved to the Dallas area...guess what? No PB products.

Not in Hastings, not in Barnes and Nobel, not in Waldens. Not in any comic shops (but they can order it).

WHo knows? Perhaps this manga stunt will get Palladium Books on the shelves again.

I am kind of surprised you can't find Palladium Books in Dallas. Especially since I know there is a huge gaming community there. The ones I am familiar with are into Shadowrun and White Wolf though. But then I go to the gaming stores to look for Roleplaying Books, not Comic Shops (who get RPG's rarely - your better option is to get an Art Book there). Barnes and Noble along with Borders have their own supply chain, and thus would possibly require Palladium to make a special deal with them.

Now, I do find quite a bit of games in used book stores. Even at full price/Brand New.

But I am hoping that with the RPG being Manga, that Palladium can break into the mass market of the big box book stores.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:12 am

You would think some place with the Dallas/ FortWorth area you'd be able to find a store which carries Palladium.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:57 am

I have been searching the internet for the stores (still don't know why) but someone over at RPG net had asked this question while they were helping out a political campaign: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=379031&page=2

The Game Chest in a mall seems to be the best bet...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:32 am

I'm sure if enough interest is expressed at a store there, someone will have the intelligence to order them.

The Galactus Kid · Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:21 am

By the way...it is topped out at 320 pages and is still the original price. Just thought you should know.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:57 pm

I just noticed Jason Richards location is Dallas Texas - I am sure he knows where you can purchase Palladium Books in Dallas...

MikeM · Unread post by **MikeM** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:08 pm

That is so sweet!

I can't wait to get this game in my grubby little paws.

MikeM

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:14 pm

The Galactus Kid wrote:By the way...it is topped out at 320 pages and is still the original price. Just thought you should know.

YAY!

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:05 pm

320 pages for the same price! WOW!!! I can't wait to get the book! YAHOO!!!! Thank you for the information Galactus Kid!!!

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:45 pm

I hope they do not cut anything. The more the merrier I say.

Chuck Lang · Unread post by **Chuck Lang** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:46 pm

The Galactus Kid wrote:By the way...it is topped out at 320 pages and is still the original price. Just thought you should know.

That is definitely good news. I hope hasn't cut into PB's profit too much.

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:30 pm

Well, Dallas area, not Dallas proper. Im in Greenville and it a good hour to get into Dallas itself. Still, I expected a bit more from the comic shops and book stores around here.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am

I'm sure there has to be a place close to you that is going to carry it. It's a huge metropolitian area. I know I've been there. Although that was back in 1989 on a party trip with friends!

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:56 pm

anthony.perez wrote:Is there actually plans for making a full sized Robotech: TSC book?

Eevntualy...a limmited edition one-time-only printing

Chuck Lang · Unread post by **Chuck Lang** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:43 pm

DhAkael wrote:
anthony.perez wrote:Is there actually plans for making a full sized Robotech: TSC book?

Eevntualy...a limmited edition one-time-only printing

Weren't they going to go ahead with the full size book only if sales on the manga-sized book went well?

Agent_gir · Unread post by **Agent_gir** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:02 pm

mindwyr wrote:
DhAkael wrote:
anthony.perez wrote:Is there actually plans for making a full sized Robotech: TSC book?

Eevntualy...a limmited edition one-time-only printing

Weren't they going to go ahead with the full size book only if sales on the manga-sized book went well?

I'd def buy the game... at full size only

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:21 pm

Agent_gir wrote:
mindwyr wrote:
DhAkael wrote:
anthony.perez wrote:Is there actually plans for making a full sized Robotech: TSC book?

Eevntualy...a limmited edition one-time-only printing

Weren't they going to go ahead with the full size book only if sales on the manga-sized book went well?

I'd def buy the game... at full size only

That's the problem... they went ahead DESPITE people tacitly and firmly saying "I'll buy the book only at normal size" and did the manga format..and then to rub salt in the wound "IF the book does well we may do a special one-time only limmited edition printing in normal format size".
Basicly; blackmail. Buy the book at the format given and you can buy it again.

-sigh-

Again, I will state that I have this book "on-hold order" once it shows up at the ONLY hoby-store that carries PBooks it seems in Toronto. At that point II will determine if it is worth picking up. Chances are I prolly will.

.
I really really really hate this marketing tactic, but hey...need my fix man, I'm in serious withdrawl here for mecha (ever since R.Talsorian went belly-up and basicly canned Mekton).
And don't wave BESM at me.. hated that bloody game, and at $26 for basicly a micro soft-cover book on 'Zen RP' -ugh-.
Sorry, I LIKE my number crunching and dice-rolling.

MikeM · Unread post by **MikeM** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:08 am

It's not blackmail at all. You dont need to pick up the manga size format. Im pretty sure that it will sell enough copies that Palladium will do a standard size printing.

Tell you what? Ill be two copies of the manga size format so you don't have to.

What I want to know is if all the other Robotech books will be manga size as well. I dont care if they go with manga size or standard, but keep all the books for Robotech the same.

MikeM

Chuck Lang · Unread post by **Chuck Lang** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:04 am

MikeM wrote:
What I want to know is if all the other Robotech books will be manga size as well. I dont care if they go with manga size or standard, but keep all the books for Robotech the same.

MikeM

That is a good point. What size will the rest of the books be?

I can only assume that they'll go back to the normal size after this. It just seems logical. And frankly, I hope they do go back to the normal size.

And I hate to admit it, but, being a completionist-in-rehab , I'll be buying both the manga-sized book and the full-sized book (but only for the first book, any other book after that I'll only buy one copy). And I support Palladium's successful future because they are good people who work insanely hard (not that others in the industry don't work hard).

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:31 am

If there is enough demand I'm sure they'll make sure that the all of the books in the series are the regular size. Just email them and ask nice and politely. Tell Kevin S. what you would like to see. Just be respectful.

Chuck Lang · Unread post by **Chuck Lang** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:37 am

I'll wait until I see the manga-sized print before I decide upon one size or the other.

bigbobsr6000 · Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:12 am

My local gaming store closed about a year ago. I have to order online or drive 50+ miles to the next nearest one. And with gas prices and my big Dodge Ram, it is cheaper to order online. Still, I miss being able to browse, look through books, talk with the owners, etc. :-(

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:46 am

That does bite about no local games stores! :shock:

People well be talking about it as soon as it does come out. I know I will.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:27 pm

mindwyr wrote:That is a good point. What size will the rest of the books be?

I can only assume that they'll go back to the normal size after this. It just seems logical. And frankly, I hope they do go back to the normal size.

Well in Kevin's interview on Gateway tot he Megaverse, he isn't sure what the next size would be. It all depends on the response back from everyone, whether they like it or hate it.

If they can do it, they will probably release both formats, Manga first, six months later or so the standard size.

As for the font size, I figure it will go back to Palladium standard of 11 or so - the Manga size will have a 9pt font. Small, but reasonable.

Also they are kicking around the idea of the next book in the podcast. They haven't quite set their minds on it, but it looks like it will be Macross then Southern Cross.

The Galactus Kid · Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:54 pm

I want Macross so bad. I just like the feel of that setting a lot more. Not only that, but I love the old VF-1 Veritech.

bigbobsr6000 · Unread post by **bigbobsr6000** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:13 pm

300+ page count.

Haven't we be told that: "Size dosen't matter." ?

bigbobsr6000 · Unread post by **bigbobsr6000** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:17 pm

300+ page count. Magna size. Full book size.

Haven't we be told that: "Size dosen't matter. It's what you do with it." ?

It is a RPG book for Robotech. Size doesn't matter, it's how it will be used that's important.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:28 pm

The Galactus Kid wrote:I want Macross so bad. I just like the feel of that setting a lot more. Not only that, but I love the old VF-1 Veritech.

I have to admit - Macross is not my favorite era, till the Malcontent Uprising or possibly after the Reign of Death. But that is probably because I like a post apocalyptic style setting. I also have a problem with players trying to be in an 'Organized' Military - they just can't seem to do it.

Not to mention having a team leader tends to be a problem half the time, especially one that has rank over others. The power trips even for 20+ somethings happen. With an unorganized military and/or freedom fighter group everyone seems to contribute and a natural leader pulls out in front - but game style and play help with who will be the leader.

The next book I rather see is the Southern Cross - because they are the ones most logical to be seen in an Invid Campaign, as the old Macross Era veterans would be retired. But there are a lot of Macross fanatics, and they probably couldn't handle not having their era being set up next.

The Galactus Kid · Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:40 pm

I don't have a problem with the other eras, I just have a love for the "OH CRAP THERE IS A RACE OF GIANT HUMANOID WARRIORS FROM SPACE COMING TO POUND OUR FACES" storyline.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:09 pm

Yes - I too like the idea of 60 foot aliens... but only when they are centerfolds

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:38 pm

Tiree wrote:Yes - I too like the idea of 60 foot aliens...

Its doubtful any but Dolza got to be 19m in height. Breetai was about 14m or so, Khyron and Azonia probably 11m, while Exedore, Rico, Konda and Bron were about 9m or so with Miriya being 8m.

Presumably, there were other Zentraedi Supreme Commanders before Dolza, so we can assume there were maybe 1000+ total (over the course of 500,000 yrs).

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:23 pm

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
Tiree wrote:Yes - I too like the idea of 60 foot aliens...

Its doubtful any but Dolza got to be 19m in height. Breetai was about 14m or so, Khyron and Azonia probably 11m, while Exedore, Rico, Konda and Bron were about 9m or so with Miriya being 8m.

Presumably, there were other Zentraedi Supreme Commanders before Dolza, so we can assume there were maybe 1000+ total (over the course of 500,000 yrs).

How sure of you of those years?

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:18 pm

They had their height listed in one of the older Robotech RPGs.

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