Arcane Mark II Patrol Ship???

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:01 pm

Ok,

Did anyone notice that this ship carries four Shadow Bolts? Problem is the Mark II is 80 feet wide and 100 feet long and the shadowbolts are 50 feet long and 40 feet wide. So where do they cram them? I'm using a first printing so I'm not sure if this is something that was caught and changed in a later printing. So has anyone done anything about this. I'm considering a few options.

1. Just change the ships dimensions

2. TW feature like a big d-pocket

3. Shadow Bolts at least have their wings fold up.

4. others?

I'm asking because I'm coming up with some deck plans for my game.

Carl

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:58 pm

I prefer to have the Shadowbolts' bat wings more than simply similar in shape, but also in structure, and allow them to fold up tight for onboard stowage.

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:53 pm

Yeah I forgot to mention that I was also considering docking them on the bottom the craft. In the same manner as the alpha/beta dock up with the Horizont.

Still seems to be a tight fit for four. I wonder if the overall length of the fighters might somehow retract as well?

Carl

Grand Paladin · Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:25 pm

I was thinking of something along those lines as well, but having the fighters more conforming to the main spaceframe while docked. The fighters are seemingly part of the patrol ships' hull while docked.

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:28 am

Hi there!

My two votes:

Carl Gleba wrote:Ok,
2. TW feature like a big d-pocket
3. Shadow Bolts at least have their wings fold up.

Carl

A bit detailed:
2a, The ship, while having similar height and width as the Hunter, about one-third in lenght,
yet its mass is 10kTons (compared to the 6kTons of the Hunter). The size of the turrets
on the ship also supports this size.
2b, The price of the ship is also much higher, than its capabilities would indicate.

So, IMO, the ships' inside dimensions should be at about 170% as much as the outside dimensions,
thus giving it about 5 times the "normal" volume, giving her about the same "internal density"
as of the Hunter's. Ie. 170% height, widht and lenght internally.

3, Yes, it would fit them nicely. And maybe at least two of the fighters are carried
semi-externally (as mentioned above or as AIM-7s are carried on F-4 Phantoms or
or F-18 (Super) Hornets). However, at least one of them must be able to dock
for rearming and repairs.

Adios
KLM

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:03 am

Interesting. I missed that one Carl. Thank you for bringing it to everyones attention. I think I'm going to accept it being larger than it's listed. And I'm planning on it having a dimensional pocket internally that would handle the four fighters.

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:51 am

One more issue about the Mk II - its Rift-drive.

The PPE generator system can hold up to 2000 PPE, which is needed
to engage the rift drive.
Also, it mentions that it can be activated in every 4 hours.

This - along with the Iron Ships - put the ship at a serious disadvantage
compared to technological ships.

Any ideas?

-Gazenberg

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:13 pm

Gabba hey!
Never really sat down and looked at the dimensions of said mini-cap-ship.
Okay...to avoid problems with rules lawyers and "purists", I'd say have a pocket dimension inside the Arcane Mk2's.
As stated, something like 170% or even go as far as 200% internal volume, BUT only have one launch / retrievel tube.
That way you can have you cake and eat it too.

After all, with all the D-mages and shifters about, you'd figure the option of pocket dimensions would be standrad issue (at least on small to mid range ships), if for nothing else, to have "green space" like gardens available for crew on long missions.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:22 pm

Aramanthus wrote:Interesting. I missed that one Carl. Thank you for bringing it to everyones attention. I think I'm going to accept it being larger than it's listed. And I'm planning on it having a dimensional pocket internally that would handle the four fighters.

Which raises the possible joke about how many Shadowbolts you can fit in a UWW broomcloset..
(Image of some low-ranking gob opening a hatch on a patrol ship and suddenly finding himself bodychecked backwards by the nose cone of a fighter that sudden pops through the door...)

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:03 pm

I can see a three stooges moment with your statement Taalismn!

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:47 am

gadrin wrote:
-Gazenberg

what's Gazenberg ?

A signature of mine... A character name I use in various online games...
A mistake in short

KLM wrote:
Any ideas?

(...)
since the average speed in the PW uni is 5 ly/per/hour, that's what we get. so the advantage is that you don't worry about gravity fields and so on, it's like a different topping but underneath the cake is the same.

OK, the ship is having a good average FTL speed on the long run, but where a conventional ship
can arrive via CG FTL, snap off a few shots then leave, an Arcane Mk II (even an Iron Ship)
when answering to a distress beacon, arrives at the scene with the knowledge, that if it is
a trap, they have to wait 4 hours before fleeing.
Not the best solution for a patrol ship.

(...)
The only trouble with that is that after a while, you really don't need a starship. You just need a place to find PPE and Dimensional Portals. Why spend millions upon millions when you can just Rift from that Trading House and back ? Okay you might not know your destination, but you always know your way back.

The UWW probably uses Pyramids for the bulk of the transportation, but a few lessons of
orbital bombardment proved, that one needs a proper fleet to protect their assets.

Adios
KLM

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:10 am

That is a similiar observation I think that everyone around here can agree with. A back up supply to allow for a second jump if needed might be a nice addition for the ship. A magic battery which can contain enough PPE to allow a second jump if necessary should be included.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:39 pm

Excellent new spell Gadrin. It has a lot of uses for phase world. Does it belong to any particular group? IE....space magic? Or would you consider it a general spell.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:57 am

That makes a lot of sense! I like it too! I feel sorry for the victims of it! Not!

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:26 pm

Carl Gleba wrote:Ok,

Did anyone notice that this ship carries four Shadow Bolts? Problem is the Mark II is 80 feet wide and 100 feet long and the shadowbolts are 50 feet long and 40 feet wide. So where do they cram them? I'm using a first printing so I'm not sure if this is something that was caught and changed in a later printing. So has anyone done anything about this. I'm considering a few options.

1. Just change the ships dimensions

2. TW feature like a big d-pocket

3. Shadow Bolts at least have their wings fold up.

4. others?

I'm asking because I'm coming up with some deck plans for my game.

Carl

You will find the origional authors of the Phase world setting didn not take into account a variety of dimensions. The reign of death troop transport is supposed to carry a doombringer tank but has neither the physical dimentions or the cargo capacity to do so. As a rule i pencil in the appropriate dimensions and cargo capacity. On a happy note "Starships of the Three Galaxies" was very carefully crafted to make sure all the dimensions, cargo capacities and weapon systems conformed to a cohesive set of rules.

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:18 pm

Greyaxe wrote:You will find the origional authors of the Phase world setting didn not take into account a variety of dimensions. The reign of death troop transport is supposed to carry a doombringer tank but has neither the physical dimentions or the cargo capacity to do so. As a rule i pencil in the appropriate dimensions and cargo capacity. On a happy note "Starships of the Three Galaxies" was very carefully crafted to make sure all the dimensions, cargo capacities and weapon systems conformed to a cohesive set of rules.

Something I am really looking forward to!! :ok:

Carl

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:29 am

That is great to hear! I can't wait to see this published!

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:57 pm

Anything more you can reveal to us Greyaxe? I'd be very interested in hearing more!

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:38 am

Greyaxe wrote:
You will find the origional authors of the Phase world setting didn not take into account a variety of dimensions. The reign of death troop transport is supposed to carry a doombringer tank but has neither the physical dimentions or the cargo capacity to do so.

As a side note, the "Rain of Death" transport might carry the "Doomsday Machine" hung under it,
but the latter needs to cut its weight tenfold (for its size the 10.000 tons is way too much -
1000 tons however fits better to its armor and weapon stats).

Also, weapon ranges need a shakedown, for the aforementioned super-tank has a main
laser gun with a range over 3000 kms (2 thousan miles!)...

Adios
KLM

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:50 am

The damage it appropriate for a starshpi class weapon. The only good thing about that tank is that it becomes a very big target.

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:59 am

Aramanthus wrote:The damage it appropriate for a starshpi class weapon.

Damagewise (d6*100 MD) the main gun is OK - only its range exceeds the range of a
Doombringer dreadnought... Like 15 times!!!!! :shock:

Adios
KLM

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:40 am

That right there is enough for me to use KItsune's weapons ranges for Phase World. That way those problems do not mess up the game!

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:29 am

hmmm methinks I need to look over various UWW stuff never used it much.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:17 pm

Always good stuff in their possession! You should check it out!

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:35 pm

Ok,

Here is my version of the ships deck plans. I'll be using them in an upcoming game.

While your at it feel free to visit my new site: Dimension Press

I used MS publisher to create the site. So there might be a few bugs that need to be worked out.

Carl

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:43 pm

Very nice map of the Arcane and your site is awesome boss.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:57 pm

Nice! Are those PENTACLES I see in the engine room?

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:53 pm

taalismn wrote:Nice! Are those PENTACLES I see in the engine room?

No don't think so. I pretty much used the standard symbols that came with Cosmographer. I did create the Shadow Bolt and made it into a symbol.

Gadrin,

Do you know an easier HTML editor that doesn't require me to type all the HTML out by hand?

Thanks Marcethus.

When I get time I'll do some zoomed in shots of each deck. You should be able to see more details that way.

Carl

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:21 pm

Carl Gleba wrote:
taalismn wrote:Nice! Are those PENTACLES I see in the engine room?

No don't think so. I pretty much used the standard symbols that came with Cosmographer. I did create the Shadow Bolt and made it into a symbol.
l

Dang...shoulda said YES.....That would have been very appropos for a UWW ship.

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:11 am

Carl Gleba wrote:Ok,

Here is my version of the ships deck plans. I'll be using them in an upcoming game.
(...)
Carl

Nice.

Funny, I always thought that Shadow Bolts' wing are folded like bat wings (ie. several times),
not "just swept back".

Just my two cents.

Adios
KLM

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:47 am

KLM wrote:
Carl Gleba wrote:Ok,

Here is my version of the ships deck plans. I'll be using them in an upcoming game.
(...)
Carl

Nice.

Funny, I always thought that Shadow Bolts' wing are folded like bat wings (ie. several times),
not "just swept back".

Just my two cents.

Adios
KLM

Yeah I think I know what you mean KLM.

I'm just not a very good artist

Carl

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:59 pm

A more Zoomed in view.

Carl

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:44 pm

gadrin wrote:What are those green things inside the cabins...plants ? Mini-Millenium Trees ?

>

Yeah. Everyone gets one in the UWW

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:30 am

gadrin wrote:
Carl Gleba wrote:

Yeah. Everyone gets one in the UWW

and I was just kidding. I've got old man eyes and I squinted like heck, but plants were
the only thing I could come up with.

>

They really are plants. One of the symbol sets are called geomorphs. Basically they are room components. That is why each room is exactly the same for the crew quarters. The sick bay, crew mess, and confernece room are also geomorphs that you can just drop into your drawing. Makes it pretty easy. :ok:

So no, your "old man" eyes did not fail you my friend :ok:

Carl

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:39 pm

gadrin wrote:
Carl Gleba wrote:
They really are plants. One of the symbol sets are called geomorphs. Basically they are room components. That is why each room is exactly the same for the crew quarters. The sick bay, crew mess, and confernece room are also geomorphs that you can just drop into your drawing. Makes it pretty easy.

So no, your "old man" eyes did not fail you my friend

Carl

I thought it might be a version of the Vampire Ugglies
or Splugorth goodies, like gagh from Trek.

>

You never know...Star Trek's been infamous for sneaking little gags into blueprints...One cross section in the Enterprise-D Ship's Manual features(if you squint hard enough) a biplane and a giant rat, among other things...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:37 am

Great picture and info Carl. Just one thing, could you make it easier to down load.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:21 am

Couple of nitpicks now that I've had time to scrutinize a hardcopy of the Arcane blueprints....

Scaling---I know the bridge level was blown up to show detail, but the grid behind it, if you're subconsciously using it to relate features to the other floors, misleads...Using the stairway to the lower floors helps, but at some point you might want to shrink the upper levels to be in better scale relation to the rest of the ship, or toss in a 'not to scale' note for the Bridge level.

Deck 5---You have a '10' depicted on the map, but not in the description...'9' is sublight engines in the text, but was it originally supposed to be something else, like fuel storage?
There's also the matter of '4'...the Warlock Armor Deployment Hatches....Considering that the Warlock Armor is being held up on Floor 2, it seems a little clumsy that the Marines suit up, clump down the stairs/lifts past the hangar deck and docking collar, then have to walk through the auxiliary bridge to get to the appointed Deloyment Hatches...
IT almost looks like there are supposed to be deployment hatches adjacent to the Marine Army bay on the second level...that makes more sense, or deploying them from the hangar bay doors or forward airlock.
The depicted Warlock Armor Deployment Hatches would do better service as sensor bays. service airlocks, or equipment rooms...

Just my two cents...

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:01 pm

taalismn wrote:Couple of nitpicks now that I've had time to scrutinize a hardcopy of the Arcane blueprints....

Good, I got tired of looking at it and had to move on. Lets see what I missed.

taalismn wrote:Scaling---I know the bridge level was blown up to show detail, but the grid behind it, if you're subconsciously using it to relate features to the other floors, misleads...Using the stairway to the lower floors helps, but at some point you might want to shrink the upper levels to be in better scale relation to the rest of the ship, or toss in a 'not to scale' note for the Bridge level.

Yeap, I forgot to put a scale on it. The grid behind it was what I was using to keep everything in scale. Each square is 10 feet by 10 feet. It was my best guesstamit, but is in scale to the rest of the ship. What exactly are you saying for the bridge? To big or to small?

taalismn wrote:Deck 5---You have a '10' depicted on the map, but not in the description...'9' is sublight engines in the text, but was it originally supposed to be something else, like fuel storage?
There's also the matter of '4'...the Warlock Armor Deployment Hatches....Considering that the Warlock Armor is being held up on Floor 2, it seems a little clumsy that the Marines suit up, clump down the stairs/lifts past the hangar deck and docking collar, then have to walk through the auxiliary bridge to get to the appointed Deloyment Hatches...
IT almost looks like there are supposed to be deployment hatches adjacent to the Marine Army bay on the second level...that makes more sense, or deploying them from the hangar bay doors or forward airlock.
The depicted Warlock Armor Deployment Hatches would do better service as sensor bays. service airlocks, or equipment rooms...

Just my two cents...

Oops, 9 is just an external airlock in case engineering crew need to do EVA repairs.

As for the Warlock armor deployment bays, your observation is right on. The armor does deploy from the doors on level 2. I should label the doors, yes?

For level 5 I figured it would have had more warlock combat armor bays, but I like your ideas better. Plus it seems like it would put the aux bridge at risk to borders. I'll take suggestions one what it should be. Does anyone want to add to taalismn's suggestions?

Great observations taalismn :ok:

Thank you for the feedback :-D

Carl

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:20 am

What about having some gravity control drop chutes for the Warlock Armor. That way it could drop down levels and arrive where it's needed in the ship.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:06 pm

Carl Gleba wrote:
taalismn wrote:Couple of nitpicks now that I've had time to scrutinize a hardcopy of the Arcane blueprints....

Good, I got tired of looking at it and had to move on. Lets see what I missed.

taalismn wrote:Scaling---I know the bridge level was blown up to show detail, but the grid behind it, if you're subconsciously using it to relate features to the other floors, misleads...Using the stairway to the lower floors helps, but at some point you might want to shrink the upper levels to be in better scale relation to the rest of the ship, or toss in a 'not to scale' note for the Bridge level.

Yeap, I forgot to put a scale on it. The grid behind it was what I was using to keep everything in scale. Each square is 10 feet by 10 feet. It was my best guesstamit, but is in scale to the rest of the ship. What exactly are you saying for the bridge? To big or to small? Carl

Try lining up the spiral staircase....NOw if the upper deck is to scale, either the access galleries to the rear upper deck gun turrets overhank the rear part of the ship(relative to the habitable back of next deck down) or the staircase comes out in the ceiling of the Armor bay(fold-down stairs/ladder way)...Or the upper decks are blown up to show detail...
Now, I'm presuming that the bridge is, using the original Arcane picture as a reference, the step-up midway in the dorsal side of the ship, rather than at the very bow, where you got gun turrets and docking equipment...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:36 am

I agree. Contrary to most scifi shows you do not really want to expose your bridge to incoming weapons fire!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:02 am

Aramanthus wrote:I agree. Contrary to most scifi shows you do not really want to expose your bridge to incoming weapons fire!

Actually, what I meant by that is if you look at the Arcane picture on page 88 of the Phaseworld Sourcebook, the bridge in my guess is the squarish 'cockpit' set back from the rounded nose...It's still an obvious place to aim for, but it's not at the very front...

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:51 am

taalismn wrote:
Aramanthus wrote:I agree. Contrary to most scifi shows you do not really want to expose your bridge to incoming weapons fire!

Actually, what I meant by that is if you look at the Arcane picture on page 88 of the Phaseworld Sourcebook, the bridge in my guess is the squarish 'cockpit' set back from the rounded nose...It's still an obvious place to aim for, but it's not at the very front...

Check out the first picture.
http://www.battleship.org/html/Articles ... /Armor.htm

I mean from the usual ranges aiming at the bridge with capital
weapons is rather moot, and fighters/PA pinpoint locations
anyway... But obvious target locations can have very thick
armor (and/or local force fields).

Adios
KLM

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:57 am

KLM wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Aramanthus wrote:I agree. Contrary to most scifi shows you do not really want to expose your bridge to incoming weapons fire!

Actually, what I meant by that is if you look at the Arcane picture on page 88 of the Phaseworld Sourcebook, the bridge in my guess is the squarish 'cockpit' set back from the rounded nose...It's still an obvious place to aim for, but it's not at the very front...

Check out the first picture.
http://www.battleship.org/html/Articles ... /Armor.htm

I mean from the usual ranges aiming at the bridge with capital
weapons is rather moot, and fighters/PA pinpoint locations
anyway... But obvious target locations can have very thick
armor (and/or local force fields).

Adios

have no problem with the armor protection, just using it to establish relative position and scale of the floor...
But thanks for the BB info...
KLM

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:16 pm

ok,

Made some changes based on taalismn's suggestions. Here is the summary.

Closed up distance between top lightning cannons to be in line with the hatches in the bridge level.

Bridge shorten to be more in scale with drawing.

Changed spiral stairs to a hatch that should be in line with the ladder added to deck two.

On deck two designated Warlock PA deployment airlocks. 4A.

Deck 5 changed. Removed Warlock deployment and changed it to weapons access.

For deck 6, To avoid having to do a big redesign, figure the access to the lower lightning cannons through the access hatches there are connecting jeffrey tubes.

Carl

Carl Gleba · Unread post by **Carl Gleba** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:11 am

gadrin wrote:
Carl Gleba wrote:
For deck 6, To avoid having to do a big redesign, figure the access to the lower lightning cannons through the access hatches there are connecting jeffrey tubes.

Carl

jeffrey tubes

we'll have to start calling you "Scotty" Gleba

aye ?

Its the only thing I could think of?

Carl

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:42 pm

Carl Gleba wrote:ok,

Made some changes based on taalismn's suggestions. Here is the summary.

Closed up distance between top lightning cannons to be in line with the hatches in the bridge level.

Bridge shorten to be more in scale with drawing.

Changed spiral stairs to a hatch that should be in line with the ladder added to deck two.

On deck two designated Warlock PA deployment airlocks. 4A.

Deck 5 changed. Removed Warlock deployment and changed it to weapons access.

For deck 6, To avoid having to do a big redesign, figure the access to the lower lightning cannons through the access hatches there are connecting jeffrey tubes.

Carl

Cool

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:43 pm

gadrin wrote:
Carl Gleba wrote:
Its the only thing I could think of?

Carl

Gadrin: "Access tubes ! Access tubes!"

Gleba: "Dammit Gadrin I'm a writer not an Engineer!"

>

"Ya can't mix PPE and Plasma COLD, Captain!!!"

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:09 pm

Better Scott Gleba, than Chewgleba... :lol:

Adios
KLM

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:02 pm

KLM wrote:Better Scott Gleba, than Chewgleba...

Adios
KLM

"RRRwwwwwwwwaaarrrrrrrrraaarrrrrrr!!!!"
"Oops, sorry, Carl! Didn't mean to spill hot coffee in your lap! You okay? You know, that sounded waaayyy cool!"

------
"Fortunately, Freelance Writers don't go around pulling people's arms out of their sockets and beating them with them."

----Sorry. Couldn't resist...