Guns.....

[sasha]

GBs are all about style. That's what you like the most about them.

[taalismn]

The ultimate chrome trip...all that shiny metal that needs to be polished(yet, because classic GBs seem to be family heirlooms, it's evident that the pilots must be able to tear themselves away from lovingly shining up their armors to have families)

[Dog_O_War]

Why is the Boom-Gun, and by proxy, the GB, getting the shaft?

I have been perusing my PB collection, looking for a cool looking rifle for one of my characters (how it will/would be obtained is another matter), and I'm finding something rather alarming, there seem to be more than a few human/d-bee hand-held weapons that can do around 180 MDC. Quite a few in the 120 MDC range.

And I may be over-stating the "amount", but the point isn't whether there's 20, 10, or even 5, it's that there are some crazy powerful handheld rifles out there. I know there is power creep, and I know that the Chromium Guardsman is a pre-Rifts era PA, which just makes it all the more impressive, but..... look at the size of that Boom-Gun, surely, if they could pack a similar sized wallop in a smaller package, they could do even more with that amount of space?

It's not the boomgun that's getting the shaft, it's vehicular weaponry.
The boomgun has twice the range of any waepon out there; over two miles for a weapon mounted on PA. Those hand-held weapons that do 2d6x10, 3d4x10, or even 3d6x10 do so at (often) nearly 1/3 the range of the boomgun (4000 feet), and have nowhere near the same ammo capacity. The ATL out of South America does 3d6x10 but completely drains a standard e-clip; that means you just shot off a weapon with less range at the price of 1-3000cr - and you'll note that this hand-held weapon does only half damage to things treated with the glitterboy coating, and does nothing to things immune to energy.

Meanwhile this weapon out-does very single main gun available for any tank, besides the Firestorm Mobile Fortress.

Even in FQ there was new versions of GB, and lots of new weapon systems, but most of them seemed to be matched to the CS SAMAS's railgun, nearly all doing less than the classic BG.

I can't recall what or where, but I seem to remember seeing something about a hand-held unit that could even do MORE damage than a BG (might have been in a burst mode though - but still.....).

Anybody else find this odd? Any ideas why it is this way (author's reasoning, not so much story background, but even that too)?

Why it is more normal to have weapons on-par with a gun that is realistically not that great? People are learning from the mistakes of the past I guess. It's still better (and cheaper) to fire-link 10-15 JA-9s together than it is to actually purchase any weapon described as "Giant" or "For PA". Sure, spacially-speaking this many JA-9's would seem unweildy, but they weigh less than an NG-202, and do 3 times the damage at the same range.

The only thing odd that I find is there is nobody in Rifts canon that does this - even though the advantages are both clear and calculable in reality as well as in-game.

[The Galactus Kid]

If you really want to get angry about weapons and their damages, just look at the titan robotics line.

[Jefffar]

Give me 1 infantry weapon that does 180 MDC with a range of 2 miles and doesn't need to pause between shots and I'll concede the point that infantry weapons with the power of the boomgun exist. As it is I don't think they do. Anything in the same class as the boom gun is attached to a tank, giant robot or a ship. That's what makes the Glitterboy so impressive.

[Dustin Fireblade]

South Am 2, p 83, FRA-1 Flechette Autocannon, 2D6x10+10 on a burst shot, that's 130 points. It's only 50 shy of a GB's BG. It doesn't require support pylons, counter-acting jet thrusters, and a huge Power Armor to fire it. Put that in the hands of someone on a mobile platform like a ground or sky cycle, or even some of the smaller PA, and the range could be made up and be doing circles around the GB until it got dizzy trying to follow. And it's a heck of a lot cheaper than either the BG, or it's delivery system (the GB). Heck, with the woods and other obstructions, you could either arm several grunts with that, and hide them in wait, or sneak them up under the cover of darkness or with a distraction (or both), and then have them take the target apart. 4 guys with those guns is 320 MD in about 2 attacks or so. (that find is the work of a quick search, I'm certain there are better options out there, particularly if one includes the Rifters)

But that can only do it on a burst, has a fraction of the range of the Boom Gun, a fraction of the ammo supply, requires a minimum PS score to use (it is a SUPPORT weapon after all) and is the product of alien technology in a very isolated part of the world.


Still I tend to believe the weapon damages in Rifts are goofed.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Fyi - the RUE Boom Gun carries 1,400 rounds. Yes it's a huge increase and it's stupid I think, but it's canon.

I just find it odd that with the advances that have been made Post Apocalypse that the BG is still where it is.

What advances? Please give some examples that you are thinking of. The ones that I can think of are either pre-Rifts like the BG, product of alien technology or just have some other drawbacks (like the NG-E15 Pulse Plasma Ejector that does 2d4*10md on a pulse, but only gets 16 pulse shots with its power pack and is short ranged and inaccurate.)

[Jefffar]

South Am 2, p 83, FRA-1 Flechette Autocannon, 2D6x10+10 on a burst shot, that's 130 points.

Okay, that's a burst - so no aimed shot possible (thats a +3 to strike there) making it less accurate than the boom gun. It does 50 points less max damage and it has a shorter range. It still requires a PA to operate and you say tht takes up 2 attacks which means the damage per attack is really 1D6x10+5, about 1/3rd the boom gun's power.

As for the range of engagements - if a GB allows the combat to typically happen within 4000 feet he's not paying attention to how he should do his thing. I came to Rifts from the Robotech RPG so I'm used to encounters where combat opens up more than a mile away, sometimes more than 10 or 20 miles away. If you have the longer ranged weapon you do your best to make sure the fight starts such that you can hit the other guy and the other guy can't hit you.

So again, please come up with a hand held weapon comperable for range and damage with the boomgun for us.

[kevarin]

shemarrian rail gun from the old rifts source book one

2D6x10 one shot
range 6000 ft

but blows up when the shemarrian dies so might be hard to get and its the only weapon i can find
even close to a boom gun with the books i have but i dont think you will find a hand held gun to beat a boom gun if i understood it right a boomgun is just a rail gun on steroids the far extream of what you can do with the tech while everything else is more the normal use and needs bursts to get that much damage

now for races that might have the tech megaversal legion not sure if a i-beam weapon could get a shell up to speeds over mach1 but thay do have a tank cannon that does 5D6x10 damage and has a range of 2 miles so not sure what thay could do would love to see a more detailed source book on them i like those guys

[jedi078]

Why is the Boom-Gun, and by proxy, the GB, getting the shaft?

Two words: Power creep

To counter the power creep have the Glitter Boy’s boom gun do 6d6x10 MDC, capable of a critical hit on a 16-20, doing do double damage, and on a natural 20 doing triple damage.

That puts the Glitter Boy back in its place as a vehicle/robot/PA/dragon/demon killer.

[csbioborg]

Naruni Shoulder Cannon is the best tech rifle in the game at 2d4X10+20 md and aq impressive range

[CyCo]

It's called scale. Something Palladium doesn't seem to be able to grasp.

[Dog_O_War]

Naruni Shoulder Cannon is the best tech rifle in the game at 2d4X10+20 md and aq impressive range

This weapons' damage average is 70; a full 40 points less than the boomgun.

Ok, so it's got less range. Maybe your games are different, but most combat in any Rifts game I've ever heard, read about or played in has been 1/4 mile or less range.

You need a better sample-size then. The Glitterboy detects and tracks targets at a range of miles.

But still, so if something did 1D10 (no multiplier, just 1 to 10 points) damage at a range of 20 miles, that would make it a "better" or "more powerful" weapon?

It depends; if this is a missile that costs 1000cr to fire, then no. If this is a vehicular-mounted gun that fired single shots, then yes. If it took a full round to fire though, then maybe. Slinging a projectile that distance offers that you are both never detected (and thus always get double damage for a sneak-attack, increasing the damage to 1d10x2), and have minutes of possible firing before-hand. That could be 5 attacks (average) where atleast 4 hit for 8d10 per 15 seconds. It might take a vehicle a full 3 minutes to get to you, which is 12 rounds of firing, or 8d10x12, or 528 MD - enough to kill a giant robot, and more than enough to put down a pair of SAMAS before you even thought about moving position.

And yes, it may be a burst, but it implies a short burst, not a full melee, meaning just 2 attacks, and per the game mechanics, if you strike successfully, you hit and roll your damage.

So the damage on this weapon is cut in half then, or 1d6x10+5. I'll stick with a mini-missile launcher thanks, it's a better weapon due to range and rate of fire. Or better yet, a C-29; ammo's cheaper, and I can make head-shots with it.

Ammo capacity is limited, but so is a RUE GB's, but that's mostly a function of the FRA-1's size, mount it on a SAMAS and give it a larger drum and you solve that problem, as well as the range issue (and the strength issue) (plus with laser aided computer targeting, you could stand a much better shot at hitting the opponents head too).

You do know that a single Glitterboy can kill a half-dozen SAMAS before they even get within weapons' range of that Glitterboy, right? A Glitterboy tends to detect those flying PA's miles out and has an average of 6 attacks per round (for the most novice of GBs). Generally it takes the Glitterboy 2 shots to kill a SAMAS; that's three SAMAS dead per round, and the SAMAS (on average) can't ever dodge the Glitterboys' +4 bonus to strike.

Or ok, take this - CS SAMAS, 1D6x10 for it's rather large, nuclear power plant assisted rail gun. There are loads of rifles that do that or more in a short burst, and some that will do it in 1 shot, all without the size or expence of the SAMAS's rail gun, or needing the expense of a SAMAS itself. Same concept.

The SAMAS railgun has one of the best damages/ per round and ranges available on a railgun. Additionally, weapons no longer fire short bursts, otherwise the SAMAS railgun would be able to, and then you're back to square one.

[Dustin Fireblade]

And I guess that's the real problem, the GB is painted as a lone wolf. It might be GREAT in coordinated military actions, and probably rule the battlefield, but solo, should be cut to ribbons.

Our very first Rifts game back from '90 one of the player's selected a GB. He ended up staying back and working as a sniper most of the time, toaking light damage in a few fights. Then a couple of CS Enforcer's let him have it with their entire missile payload. He couldn't afford the repairs. Player decided to say the heck with it and retired that character. Plus he didn't like staying back all the time and just having one thing to do while other characters had so many options.

To this day nobody else has played a GB that I recall. I agree in a military unit it has a place but not really with a adventuring group.

But, ok.... so N.A. has limited to no access to tech from across the megaverse and there have been little in the way of advances post apocalypse, and it should be treated as a stand-alone microcosm, got it.

Well that's pretty much how I play it anyway. I've got most all the other books, but I've never used anything from Japan, Underseas, South America, etc that I recall in my North American based games. I've played a couple of CS games where the player's are a Special Forces unit assigned to track down gun runner's, especially Triax or Naruni gear.

[R Ditto]

One thing that bugs me is a lack of 'balance', at least from a shred of realism and common sense point of view.

Compared to SDC weapons, the Boom Gun is actually balanced and sensible, both in range and damage.
Vehicle weapons, on the other hand, seems to require absurd sizes to even compare to a Boom Gun. You practically need a weapon with ten times the size and potential firepower just to end up with a weapon that can equal the BG in firepower, and on the flip side of things, infantry scale weapons keep getting more and more powerful, to the point of being absurd.

MD weapons are maybe 100 times more powerful than SDC equivilents. (SDC laser rifle doing 2D6 SDC compared to the MD equivilent doing 2D6 MD)
MDC armor/materials are maybe 50 times more powerful than SDC equivilents. (heavy armor of one type had 400 SDC, the closest MDC equivilent had 200 MDC)
Some of the newer stuff goes well beyond that in some ways.
Many vehicles seem to get nowhere near that amount of MD/MDC increase, or get the right increase for already nerfed weapons/armor.

I accept weapons like the ATL-7 only because of the restrictions, such as the fact it uses up an entire e-clip to do its damage, and taking a while to reload, making it sort of like an energy based LAAW.

Even before power creep, it is easy for someone in EBA and packing a good energy weapon to survive (and in a rare chance, defeat) an Main Battle Tank, when any shred of realism indicates even a lighter Infantry Fighting Vehicle should be able to mow down even armored infantry with little trouble.
Where's the challenge or balance with things being so lopsided in favor of someone on foot?

Range could be an issue, but with so much cover, such as towns, or with well wooded areas, the obstructed line of sight makes long range is less of an issue, which sort of defeats the purpose of having a long range weapon, which puts things more in favor of those high powered yet short ranged weapons.

As for hooking up infantry based energy rifles to a nuke powered vehicle...
I don't like the "let's hook up 4 pulse lasers to our nuke powered vehicle!" ideas. It's like hooking up 60,000w worth of appliances and other stuff to a generator that can only put out 1,500 watts of energy, and expecting it to work... and in many cases, GM's allowing it to work, or having come up with the idea in the first place...
Even the nuke power source of a tank might not dish out the energy needed to power quad pulse laser rifles firing full auto.
Large vehicle weapons can at least be made more efficient (and cooled) to allow for much more efficient use of energy, so a big energy gun doing 1D4x10 MD might actuallybe using quite a few times less energy than a heavy energy riflle that does 1D4x10 MD, plus a vehicle could have power storage equal to the volume of dozens or even hundreds of e-clips.
That could be a valid excuse for the lack of power in some vehicle based energy weapons, but not for ballistic or missile based weapons.
And some old SDC tech seems to have some odd restriction that prevents it from being improved or remade using MDC/MD tech... (maybe because I can figure out how a 40mm cannon can be as deadly as a freaking 120mm tank gun from Mercs...)
It's like anything that pre-dates the Rifts to much is magically converted to playdough or firecrackers or some such thing...

It seems at times like Rifts ends up more as a roll playing game than a role playing game.

Other factors that come to mind.
Cost.
A lot of those weapons are expensive, and rare, and some only available in certain areas from certain people. MD weapons and armor should be rare in many areas if some are as expensive or more expensive than some basic vehicles are.
Also consider factors like friends and family and others who might take action or put out bounties because a friend/family member was 'murdered' and their 'livelyhood' or 'precious family valuables' (an MD energy weapon) stolen.
It is (supposed to be) a post apocalyptic setting, afterall.

It is sad that only the GB and some of the other early Rifts and RMB stuff were actually well balanced. Some new things make sense, some are just a bit out there, some seem just plain nerfed.

[Blight]

shemarrian rail gun from the old rifts source book one

2D6x10 one shot
range 6000 ft

but blows up when the shemarrian dies...snip..

The gun does not blow up the Shemarrian blows up. That what disarm attacks were made for.

[Jefffar]

Disarm attacks and getting it far enough away from the Shemarrian that it's self destruct system isn't triggered by whatever code is broadcast when the Shemarrian goes up (just because Archie is that sneaky).

[teulisch]

Rifts is somewhat lacking in realism. Most of the problem with vehicular weapon seems to be a flat refusal to let any tank do more damage than a boom gun. On the one hand, this is a sort of 'balance' as it makes getting hit by a tank something that body armor may live through, but on the other hand it makes vehicles somewhat less deadly than a well-equiped full-conversion borg.

the best solution, as i see it, is to simply make a houserule that works for you. limiting what books people can get their guns from helps too. if your in north america, you probably only have guns from north america, germany, and phase world(nanuri, ect).

for every new awesome gun we get that changes the very face of warfare, theres two more realistic guns that nobody wants because they dont do 'max damage'. kind of tells you how people like to play their game, when MDC and damage are all we look at anymore.

[glitterboy2098]

I will say this regarding the scale of the game: one of the important concepts drilled into our heads during the explanation of the Golden Age of Man and the advent of Mega-Damage technology is that the individual soldier became as powerful as any tank. I would submit that there's something intrinsic about the technology that provides more bang for the buck in miniaturized weapon systems and armor.

That said, yes, I would prefer to beef up the M.D.C. on select giant robots and armored vehicles, as well as increase the amount of MD dealt out by select weapons.

which is probably the big reason the writers shaft tanks. but the problem with that statement is that it doesn't specify what kind of tank. i've always read that as "as a 20th century main battle tank". which a guy in EBA and with an l-20 certainly beats in protection and firepower. (the tank still has better mobility)

an M-1 in palladium's game has a 105mm cannon doing 2D4x100 S.D., and 1200 SDC of protection. or in other terms, 2D4md and 12 MDC. most RIFTS vagabonds, even in the old RMB, had better than that.

presumably the m1A2 would have slightly better armor (remeber they refined chobham somewhat since then), and a more powerful 120mm gun. but it would still pale compared to a vagabond in EBA with an MD laser rifle.

to get a 20th century tank to near parity you'd need a GAW refit. to exceed it you'd need t build the tank using the same level of tech that gives the guy in EBA with a laser rifle such an advantage over 20th century stuff.

[R Ditto]

I will say this regarding the scale of the game: one of the important concepts drilled into our heads during the explanation of the Golden Age of Man and the advent of Mega-Damage technology is that the individual soldier became as powerful as any tank. I would submit that there's something intrinsic about the technology that provides more bang for the buck in miniaturized weapon systems and armor.

That said, yes, I would prefer to beef up the M.D.C. on select giant robots and armored vehicles, as well as increase the amount of MD dealt out by select weapons.

which is probably the big reason the writers shaft tanks. but the problem with that statement is that it doesn't specify what kind of tank. i've always read that as "as a 20th century main battle tank". which a guy in EBA and with an l-20 certainly beats in protection and firepower. (the tank still has better mobility)

an M-1 in palladium's game has a 105mm cannon doing 2D4x100 S.D., and 1200 SDC of protection. or in other terms, 2D4md and 12 MDC. most RIFTS vagabonds, even in the old RMB, had better than that.

presumably the m1A2 would have slightly better armor (remeber they refined chobham somewhat since then), and a more powerful 120mm gun. but it would still pale compared to a vagabond in EBA with an MD laser rifle.

to get a 20th century tank to near parity you'd need a GAW refit. to exceed it you'd need t build the tank using the same level of tech that gives the guy in EBA with a laser rifle such an advantage over 20th century stuff.

There is one thing that comes to mind on the subject of nerfing tanks.
Depleted Uranium.
Interesting stuff, it tends to shatter and ignite on impact... what does this have to do with anything?
DU is treated as an MDC material, in that it can increase the damage of MD balistic weapons by 25%.
Chobam armor, used first by the British, and then by the US, happens to use DU in its construction.
The M-1, even the original version, iirc, uses Chobam armor.
DU is the material used for the APFSDS rounds.
The Chobam armor on an M1 is said to have been designed to resist the impact of an HEAT round/warhead capable of punching through of over 3ft of armor grade steel, without there even being any fragments created by the interior of the armor.
The DU APFSDS round (16 pounds hitting a 1.5 inch diameter spot at mach 5) still punches cright through the chobam armor (and does bad things to anything on the other side).
M1s are said to have easily withstood multiple RPG hits with little trouble in Iraq, one apparently suffered over 100 hits from RPG rounds and was still more or less intact with the crew unharmed, and iirc, had no major trouble beyond one of the treads being taken out.
Since even a 'basic' RPG does a minimal of 100 SDC, and an M1 could possible survive over 100 impacts... that alone earns the basic M1 at least 10,000 SDC/100 MDC (since the stuff likely shrugs of MG fire like water off of a duck's back(

AKFAIK, the only difference between the M1 and the later versions is that they replaced the 105mm gun with a 120mm gun, in addition to upgrading its electronics and other equipment, but that the armor was more or less the same. Although there might have also been some improvements to the armor production by the time later M1s were made.

Modern 105mm rifled guns are said to be able to outperform the 120mm smooth bore gun, like the one the M1 uses.
Although, the M1 does suck in it is among the lowest ammo payloads among the tanks of the world, and that the US military apparently restricts it to just anti-tank rounds, the HEAT and APFSDS... and the redundant canister shot (7.62mm with 11,000 ammo, .50 call with something like 4,000 ammo... and it needs an overgrown shotgun shell why?)

Basically...
The 'Vietnam' and 'Cold War' era tanks (like many apparently listed in the CoCW) seem to do not much damage compared to much smaller guns (a 10 pound shell does barely x10 damage of a 0.08 pound bullet?), and one or two RPG rounds can take them out (realistic), yet tanks like the M1 (and I think the Challenger is the British equivalent that use chobam), have armor that easily shrugs off that kind of stuff... Stuff like the German Leopard 2 has its own type of modern armor thatis supposed to be similar in capabilities... and they only get 1,200 SDC?
Take a car, slap on 2.5 ton heavy vehicle armor from HU2 to add 1,400 SDC...
Seriously, HU2, 5,000 pound heavy armor for vehicles that adds 1,400 SDC... when the freaking civilian vehicles are tougher than the military grade stuff, you know something is wrong.

IMO, the basic M1 practically is an MDC vehicle with MD main weapon.
Heck, a 120mm APFSDS should be able to down even a GB in one shot.

I will say this regarding the scale of the game: one of the important concepts drilled into our heads during the explanation of the Golden Age of Man and the advent of Mega-Damage technology is that the individual soldier became as powerful as any tank. I would submit that there's something intrinsic about the technology that provides more bang for the buck in miniaturized weapon systems and armor.

That said, yes, I would prefer to beef up the M.D.C. on select giant robots and armored vehicles, as well as increase the amount of MD dealt out by select weapons.

Here is the problem.
If the soldier becomes as power as a tank, what does the tank become as powerful as?
What happens when you upscale things? Things usually start big, then get smaller, and in terms of weapons, some that start small end up getting bigger.

If you take the tech used to make those Golden Age infantry weapons and armor, and apply it to a vehicle...
If EBA, which might have 1/2 of armor at best, can have upwards of 200 MDC (the one really heavy CS armor in CWC), what happens when you go to a main battle tank that has dozens of tons of armor that is a half foot thick?
Infantry armor has to be light enough to move in, tanks, thanks to the tracks spreading out their weight on even soft terrain, can handle much heavier stuff, like how chobam armor contains DU, which is something like twice as heavy as steel.

What happens if you take that several some odd ounces of explosive in an MD hand grenade (2D6-4D6 MD) or from a mini-missile (5D6 MD) , and pack 10 pounds of the stuff in a cannon round... you know, ignore the fact that just about everything bigger than a man can carry seems to use inferior stuff. SRMs aren't much stronger than Mini-Missiles, even though they should be packing a much larger warhead, and MRMs aren't much stronger than an SRM even though they should have an even larger warhead still, and LRMs aren't to much stronger than an MRM even though they should have some incredibly large warhead capacity.

As is, using SDC TNT in some large 'larger' explosive based weapons would likely increase their damage... which is sad....

Basically, take the old stuff, apply new tech, watch even the CS troops run as a classic 40mm Bofors gun becomes a lethal MD weapon when remade using MD materials and technology.

[Dog_O_War]

Rifts is somewhat lacking in realism.

Whoa, there; somewhat?
This is a game where strange monsters have come through magic portals and have invaded earth. Where infantry carry tank weapons and tanks carry infantry weapons. Where we can make robots and powered suits of armour yet we're still using radios and sonar and such without a single mention (though I believe it is implied) of a technology upgrade for these methods of communication.

I think the term "somewhat" is just a tid-bit on the side of understatement.

Most of the problem with vehicular weapon seems to be a flat refusal to let any tank do more damage than a boom gun.

This statement is inherently incorrect, as almost every modern Rifts tank easily out-damages the boomgun. Though specifically I believe you were thinking that the tanks' main gun (note the distinction) doesn't do as much as a boomgun. This is true.

On the one hand, this is a sort of 'balance' as it makes getting hit by a tank something that body armor may live through, but on the other hand it makes vehicles somewhat less deadly than a well-equiped full-conversion borg.

I refuse to believe that they did this for an actual balance, and instead did this for a precieved balance. Anime rules and all that (where mecha and PA seemingly out-strip a weapons platform like a tank or a combat helicopter).
Reality of the situation here is that this is a double-edged sword. I can't claim realism due to the FIREBALL! effect. At the same time we can't achieve versimilitude due to the percieved balance.

shemarrian rail gun from the old rifts source book one

2D6x10 one shot
range 6000 ft

but blows up when the shemarrian dies...snip..

The gun does not blow up the Shemarrian blows up. That what disarm attacks were made for.

Shemarrians don't blow up anyway, the expolision is totaly contained within them and liqufies the insides. Gun inclued.
And as for all this talk of realism, if it keeps going Dog of War is going to came in here and Fireball all of us.

It's been on the border, but it seems to have been confined to the realm of versimilitude so far.

[Killer Cyborg]

Why is the Boom-Gun, and by proxy, the GB, getting the shaft?

I have been perusing my PB collection, looking for a cool looking rifle for one of my characters (how it will/would be obtained is another matter), and I'm finding something rather alarming, there seem to be more than a few human/d-bee hand-held weapons that can do around 180 MDC. Quite a few in the 120 MDC range.

And I may be over-stating the "amount", but the point isn't whether there's 20, 10, or even 5, it's that there are some crazy powerful handheld rifles out there. I know there is power creep, and I know that the Chromium Guardsman is a pre-Rifts era PA, which just makes it all the more impressive, but..... look at the size of that Boom-Gun, surely, if they could pack a similar sized wallop in a smaller package, they could do even more with that amount of space?

The Boom Gun has never gotten the shaft.
The other guns have gotten the elevator.

The problem is not that the Boom Gun's damage is unreasonable or disproportionate, the problem is that there are other guns out there with unreasonable and disproportionate damage in their favor.

[Jefffar]

I see no P-Beam with a 3 round burst feature in Rifts Japan.

There is a P-Beam that has it's rate of fire as listed as "Standard; semi-automatic" but as this is actually 2 different rules sets by game standards I decided to consult with the GMG for definitive stats. In there the rate of fire is lsited as Standard (which is rare ofr a PBeam, most are explcitly single shot).

Standard rate of fire for energy weapons, as of the GMG is 1 shot per attack or a double blast that does double damage.

So the gun you are referring to can do 2D4x10+20 but has only 1300 feet of range (about 1/10th that of the Boom Gun) and can only do that 5 times from an e-clip or 25 times from an e-canister.

Not really competition for the boomgun at all.

[Blight]

shemarrian rail gun from the old rifts source book one

2D6x10 one shot
range 6000 ft

but blows up when the shemarrian dies...snip..

The gun does not blow up the Shemarrian blows up. That what disarm attacks were made for.

Shemarrians don't blow up anyway, the expolision is totaly contained within them and liqufies the insides. Gun inclued.
And as for all this talk of realism, if it keeps going Dog of War is going to came in here and Fireball all of us.

Um, no they don't.

7. Automatic Self-Destruct Program: Standard. A self destruct mechanism detonates when the robot's main body M.D.C. is depleted or internal working are tampered with. This prevents the robot's technology from falling into the hands of the enemy. The explosion inflicts 2D6x10 M.D.C. to a Twenty foot (6m) area around the bot and three times as much damage to the bot itself, leaving no salvageable remains, and destroys the rail gun too. The robots cannot self-destruct at will (in fact the bots have no idea that they carry explosives inside them whatsoever.)"

Clearly if you capture and disarm the robot, untill you try to crack it open to find out how it works. (after you figure out it not an female alien) it wont blow up.
Edit: I was wrong. That quote was from the original source book it was change in the revised addition. Of course i never bought the new book because they didn't change the robot constuction rules. So sorry for the miss quote.

[Jefffar]

[Voice of Mod]

I'm sure some of you have noticed there's a few less posts in this thread now.

Those of you who've read the posts before they vanished and are familiar with the rules here probably understand why.

But for those of you who need it spelled out for you, flaming, harrassing, abusing and insulting other posters will not be tolerated.

If you are the victim of any of the above - don't respond to it, just report it. By responding to it you just end up making the situation worse and you yourself might have to deal with the consequences of violating the rules yourself.

Also, I strongly encourage those who see such actions in progress to report them instead of jumping into the melee to try and defend whomever you think is the wronged poster. Your actions can only make things worse by escelating the confrontation.

As ususal, if you disagree with my actions as moderator, please feel free to complain to Deific NMI, head mod here.

If you feel the need to thank me, PM me so I can tell you where to send the cheques.

[/Voice of Mod]

[Giant2005]

Surprised no-one mentioned the 4D6x10 MD minigun in Naruni Wave Two. That thing is the nastiest piece of hand-held weaponry money can buy.

[Jefffar]

Well it's not Earth technology and this topic has focused on the improvements in Earth tech since the cataclysm.

But still, doesn't have the range or accuracy of the boomgun (remember an aimed shot ahs an extra +2 to strike more than a burst).