CS production capabilities ?

[Lenwen]

Has anyone at any time or in any book .. EVER found evidence of any kind what so ever of just how much production of the various war machine that the CS can put out ?

How the whole where they get thier resources from ?

Or how thier resources are NEVER stretched thin no matter how many war's they are in or how many operations they have thier hands in or anything of that nature ?


Or is it in fact ... simply put .. as many,much as needed to keep the story going just because they are the Coalition States ?

Regaurdless of the whole how much nonesence it makes type thing ?

[rat_bastard]

Has anyone at any time or in any book .. EVER found evidence of any kind what so ever of just how much production of the various war machine that the CS can put out ?

How the whole where they get thier resources from ?

Or how thier resources are NEVER stretched thin no matter how many war's they are in or how many operations they have thier hands in or anything of that nature ?


Or is it in fact ... simply put .. as many,much as needed to keep the story going just because they are the Coalition States ?

Regaurdless of the whole how much nonesence it makes type thing ?

It is however many is needed.

they have literally millions of suits of power armor etc.

[Captain Shiva]

I always figured that they recycle. A LOT.

[Dustin Fireblade]

It's pretty much whatever nonsense is wanted/needed.

The only figures that I know of though are in the original SB1 for the Skelebot.

There are some other number's, like the Skull Smasher says there are a number in production, but nothing on how long they have been in production or how long it takes to build one.

[Prince Artemis]

Rifter 0 actually has the answer to atleast one of these questions, and it's the answer to the big one

[Lenwen]

Rifter 0 actually has the answer to atleast one of these questions, and it's the answer to the big one

And is it cannon ?

[Prince Artemis]

Rifter 0 actually has the answer to atleast one of these questions, and it's the answer to the big one

And is it cannon ?

It will be. The basis of it is already cannon, I just outline the nuts a bolts a little bit.

[Lenwen]

Rifter 0 actually has the answer to atleast one of these questions, and it's the answer to the big one

And is it cannon ?

It will be. The basis of it is already cannon, I just outline the nuts a bolts a little bit.

I cant wait now to check it out ..
Is this inc for a new book or something that you are doing yourself ?

[Prince Artemis]

Rifter 0 actually has the answer to atleast one of these questions, and it's the answer to the big one

And is it cannon ?

It will be. The basis of it is already cannon, I just outline the nuts a bolts a little bit.

I cant wait now to check it out ..
Is this inc for a new book or something that you are doing yourself ?

It should be working it's way into a book soon, but so far the basics are in Rifter 0.

[Lenwen]

and then there is the educational level. inordwer to do some of this stuff like put togather power armor blue prints you have to be able to read. how many people in the cs can read. maybe 5% overall. and thats just not a big enough number for all those highend jobs (like paramedic, lawer etc..)
meaning not only are they unable to meet the production capibilities in the books they are understaffed on all pretty much non-military jobs. the only way that could even have a glimmer of hope to work is if everyone worked for the state. which isnt likely to be the case.

Well said .. Well said indeed.

[Captain Shiva]

What I use in my game is that the cs has 1 retrieval and salvage company for every 3 mechanized companies that follow behind the main thrust picking up damaged, crippled and destroyed cs and enemy power armors, robots and vehicles. The cs power armors, robots and vehicles that are damaged or crippled they repair and refit, the ones that are too far damaged or are destroyed or belonged to the enemy are sliced up and shipped back to a military factory complex where they are used to make new power armors, robots and vehicles. For infantry I have 1 retrieval and salvage team for every 5 companies that pick up undestroyed armor and weapons from dead cs and enemy soldiers for the same purpose. It would cost the cs too much in money and raw materials let them sit and rust or be captured by the enemy. As for the retrieval vehicles, I just take the stats for an md flatbed truck and beef up its mdc and range a good bit, then throw in a couple of mounted weapons for good measure.

Sounds like a good idea, mind if I steal it? Also, check this out: http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Rifts ... _Train.htm

[Blight]

Ceramics, the one oldest technologies used by man, in my games has made a big come back with the CS. Basically purified dirt is pored into nano-engines mixed with a high tec polyurea elastomer to make most of the armors and robots. Amazing leaps in recycle technology, and artificially made conductors and superconductors, greatly lower the amount of raw materials needed. A.D.(advanced Decay) technology pushes nuclear power beyond anything we understand today. Raw protein, grown as a genetically engineered algae provide the basic building blocks for much of the the food and a core part of the air recycling process for the mega cities. I could go on and on. (And have in my write up of Chi-town that some of yall have) But we have no clue what kind of advances will be made by the times of the rifts. CS production capabilities are far from the most far fetched thing in Rifts.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

the only way that could even have a glimmer of hope to work is if everyone worked for the state. which isnt likely to be the case.

How is that not likely to be the case? Sounds right on the money to me.
Totalitarian police states don't leave a lot of room for free enterprise.

[The Galactus Kid]

thats sounds good iamgeorge, but that still wouldnt give the cs its production output. it would help yes, but not to that extent

Well I've always justified that the cs has one of the largest collections of pre-cataclysm knowledge stored and who knows how many production facilities the cs has built or how much reserves and raw materials they have to call on.

Also, they have probablly mined, or are mining landfills and recycling products.

[Library Ogre]

the only way that could even have a glimmer of hope to work is if everyone worked for the state. which isnt likely to be the case.

How is that not likely to be the case? Sounds right on the money to me.
Totalitarian police states don't leave a lot of room for free enterprise.

I tend to picture the CS as being fascist in economy, as well as policy.

Simply put, they let private enterprise do its thing in a lot of cases. However, the government is a buyer for a lot of the output private enterprise, owns a stake in many companies, and provides a ton of contracts that really drive the economy.

There's plenty of small firms selling interior decorating services, scrapbooking materials, even private cars and hoverbikes... there's not much more than normal regulation on these. However, if the CS needs hoverbikes, they offer up a contract, and someone goes into business for them. Only a few, very specialized military producers are government owned... and they may contract out things like janitorial services.

[dark brandon]

true however with the CS over extending itself and credits not accepted everywhere (remeber its not like the dollar a lot of people still trade) this leaves them with a market that isnt that large. and when you take the black market into consideration, thats millions of credits a month the CS never sees. and the black market is just getting bigger, where has the CS is with its tolitarian policies are starting to crumble under proseks mad dreams.

Where is it stated that it's extending itself? And CS credits account for about 70% of all credit transactions (CWC I believe). I don't know if the black market is getting bigger or smaller (there is no evidence to support either) nor is it stated the CS is starting to crumble.

a lot of people do view it that way. but, then just like the USSR the CS would just be slowly dissolving itself. even if the goverment had a hand in 80% of all that was going on this would equal a fairly weak economic policy, and even just a tiny push into a recession would ruin them.

not necessarily. USSR's existence has differing circumstances than the CS'. At this point, it can only be conjecture, but with no real power to threaten CS in NA, it by virtue of having no real competition already differers from the USSR's Example.

[dark brandon]

ok. i think i got it figured out. the cs has a population of what abut 10 million total. now when one takes into consideration all the robots they use we could probbibly triple that number for there workforce. lets say that they also have no child labor laws. everyone has a job, peroid! and that 95% of the CS has a job of somesort. weather its helping the state directly or serving fast food. in the end there work force is still only 30 million (estimated) this would defiently make them a mega power in rifts, but they still wouldnt have the production capibilities they seem to have in the books. especially considering that most of the people living within the cs (including the burbs) live far apart from any major manufacturing centers. and then there is the educational level. inordwer to do some of this stuff like put togather power armor blue prints you have to be able to read. how many people in the cs can read. maybe 5% overall. and thats just not a big enough number for all those highend jobs (like paramedic, lawer etc..) meaning not only are they unable to meet the production capibilities in the books they are understaffed on all pretty much non-military jobs. the only way that could even have a glimmer of hope to work is if everyone worked for the state. which isnt likely to be the case.

Also, who says reading is necessary? At ford the ford assembly plant, the line job itself is rather bland, no reading necessary. There is also stated that the upper class are going to be educated in reading. So those who are in the know...know. Finally, I think it was stated that about 12% of the population (generally wealthy) enjoy a proper education.

That's a bit more than 5%.

Many services that may seem to need reading, probably wouldn't, or a simple auto-reader would do. Medicine for example, you wouldn't need much reading. Nothing that couldn't be replaced with monitors. If you need a medication, you simply "speak" the name of what you want, and it's dispensed. As a paramedic, you probably have IRMSS kits, which perform as well as a doctor.

[Library Ogre]

I'll point out that all of the CS's tech officers are literate. Medics, motor pool mechanics, weapons techs... they can all read. The illiterate are the grunts.

[dark brandon]

maybe skelebots were not always for combat....

Nor should they be made for combat always. These sophisticated machines could have so many more uses than combat application.

[Captain Shiva]

Perhaps a "tunnel rat" skelebot of sorts would be made with a non-humanoid body design, perhaps in the shape of a burrowing animal or snake. I wonder if a poison gas could be developed that would affect them. I doubt if any conventional poison gas would work on mega damage creatures.

[Blight]

Perhaps a "tunnel rat" skelebot of sorts would be made with a non-humanoid body design, perhaps in the shape of a burrowing animal or snake. I wonder if a poison gas could be developed that would affect them. I doubt if any conventional poison gas would work on mega damage creatures.

Actually most DBs, monsters, gods, demons, and supernatural intelligences are affected by gasses and toxins. Unless it says immune then they work. Here is something i made for our campaign.

VX-12 Vapor agent
It has a low volatility; is odorless and is an excellent adhesive. This special form has been developed that is so adhesive that it is virtually impossible to remove from the surface that it is in contact with. This leads to strategic attacks on enemy so that the VX-12 remains stuck to the area and has the potential to kill any one attempting to use the area it it used in.
The "V" of VX-12 signifies it long persistence. VX-12 is the least volatile of the nerve agents, which means that it is the slowest to evaporate from a liquid into a vapor. Therefore, VX-12 is very persistent in the environment. Under average weather conditions, VX-12 can last for days on objects that it has come in contact with. Under very cold conditions, VX-12 can last for months without decontamination. Surfaces contaminated with VX-12 should therefore be considered a long-term hazard.
A person’s clothing can release VX-12 for about 30 minutes after contact with VX vapor, which can lead to exposure of other people.
VX breaks down slowly in the body, meaning that repeated exposures to VX and/or other nerve agents can have a cumulative effect (build up in the body). So effective save difficulty increases by one each melee.
Because VX vapor is heavier than air, it will sink to low-lying areas and create a greater exposure hazard there.

The liquid form of VX-12, it is absorbed through the eyes or the skin of the victim. It takes an four or eight minutes to take effect and its effects normally result in death. When aerosolized to give the gaseous form it more deadly than the liquid form and acts almost immediately (1 to 6 Melee rounds) on the victim. The effects are worst when it is inhaled and death is an end to the suffering.
It operates by cutting off the nervous system. It binds to the enzyme that transmits signals to the nerves and inhibits them. Therefore the nerves become isolated and uncontrollable. The antidote, atropine, is a toxin itself but it counteracts the effect of the VX-12 by removing it from the enzyme. It is an anti-nerve agent so does the reverse of the VX,-12 a nerve agent. It is normally injected into the arm or thigh but for gaseous attacks the atropine must go immediately into the heart. So full body protection and gas masks (environmental Armour) are essential to avoid exposure in a VX-12 missile attack.

Delivery
The most important factor in the effectiveness of chemical weapons is the efficiency of its delivery, or dissemination, to a target. The most common techniques include munitions (such as bombs, projectiles, warheads) that allow dissemination at a distance and spray tanks which disseminate from low-flying aircraft which cover the most area.
Long range missile or bomb: cloud covers a 300' area
medium range missile: cloud covers a 100' area
grenade: cloud covers 60' area
aerosol can: cover one object or can be sprayed on victim (used for assassination) a small can will have 40 doses.

Immediate signs and symptoms of VX-12 exposure
Victims may not know they were exposed to VX-12 because it has no odor.
People exposed to a low or moderate dose of VX-12 by inhalation, ingestion (swallowing), or skin absorption may experience some or all of the following symptoms within seconds of exposure:
Runny nose
Watery eyes
Small, pinpoint pupils
Eye pain
Blurred vision
Drooling and excessive sweating
Cough
Chest tightness
Rapid breathing
Diarrhea
Increased urination
Confusion
Drowsiness
Weakness
Headache
Nausea, vomiting, and/or abdominal pain
Slow or fast heart rate
Abnormally low or high blood pressure
Even a tiny drop of nerve agent on the skin can cause sweating and muscle twitching where the agent touched the skin.
Exposure to a large dose of VX by any route may result in these additional health effects:
Loss of consciousness
Convulsions
Paralysis
Respiratory failure possibly leading to death
Showing these signs and symptoms does not necessarily mean that a person has been exposed to VX-12. A proper medical doctor skill roll is need to diagnose.
How VX-12 exposure is treated
Treatment consists of removing VX-12 from the body as soon as possible (the great thing about VX-12 there is a decontamination chemical that renders it totally inert) and providing supportive medical care in a hospital setting. Antidotes are available for VX-12 and carried by all CS medics. They are most useful if given as soon as possible after exposure. Magical and psychic healing are also effective. But if the VX-12 is not removed from body the contamination process starts all over again. Also unprotected contact with victim will cause contamination.
Damage: VX-12 does 1d6x10 directly to hit point or mdc. The damage is caused by the body tearing itself apart not by the vapor.
Note: VX-12 does not stop healing so regenerating supernatural creatures normally last longer that normal victims. Do to convulsions and other symptoms all combat bonuses are cut in half.

Machines, I believe elementals and undead are always immune to gasses and toxins. If you wanted something to effect the afore mentioned i would go with an adhesive vaporised fluorosulfuric acid (HFSO3), or better yet carborane superacids.
Sorry for the thread hijack.

[Library Ogre]

I thought the reason the skelebots were primarily for combat was because the CS wasn't that great at making AIs?

[dark brandon]

Well yes DB that still does not justify there production output. simple put to small a population and not enough resources overall. i mean really where do they find all this new metal for therer bots and weopns etc... even if they scavanged that still wouldnt add a great deal because very few peoeple on rifts earth have any type of robot or powerarmor. and even there trade agreement with the NGR still wouldnt justify there production in the books.

Unfortunately, we have no idea of their resource, and the books were never set up to be encyclopedias, nor should they be...it's a game.

It is then left up to the reader to out how A makes it to C, we figure out B.

There are lots of examples that have been given so far, as to whether one accepts them or not is left at a personal preference. You'll probably never get an official answer. It's not that hard for me to imagine Golden age technologies being able to mass produce things with little human interaction. Nor is it all that difficult for me to imagine that the CS had taken control and cannibalized many of the Army depots long ago thus they have a huge amount of surplus materials already at hand. It's not too much of a stretch that the much of their metals they get are brought in my scavengers. In fact, finding a city with MD materials is kinda like finding a gold mine, as it seemed to be the case in the adventure in Rifts mercenaries, thus shows there is great profit from this and there must be huges sums of metal you find in an MD city.

So, the initial "getting" of the metal comes from having it already available, finding it or being sold it by scavengers. From there, they take it to some hidden areas, CS iron heart or any of the other states, where it is smelted, refined and reformed to make the things they need. From there, it needs little to no interference by man to produce what it needs to.

This to me, leaves little to no question about their capabilities. Refitting an army in less than 10 years doesn't seem "outlandish", feeding a large population is quite a reality.

[dark brandon]

I have not read all the replies to your question . My thought is that it is less about production capabilities and more about delivery . A front line combat unit could loose important equipment . The equipment is sitting a ware house in Chi Town that is weeks away by traveling .

Just curious as to why you think it would be weeks away? Would not the CS use planes, helecoptors and other such things to resupply the front line. About how long of a flight is it when traveling at 200 MPH from Chi-town to even tolkeen?

[Prince Artemis]

ok. i think i got it figured out. the cs has a population of what abut 10 million total. now when one takes into consideration all the robots they use we could probbibly triple that number for there workforce. lets say that they also have no child labor laws. everyone has a job, peroid! and that 95% of the CS has a job of somesort. weather its helping the state directly or serving fast food. in the end there work force is still only 30 million (estimated) this would defiently make them a mega power in rifts, but they still wouldnt have the production capibilities they seem to have in the books. especially considering that most of the people living within the cs (including the burbs) live far apart from any major manufacturing centers. and then there is the educational level. inordwer to do some of this stuff like put togather power armor blue prints you have to be able to read. how many people in the cs can read. maybe 5% overall. and thats just not a big enough number for all those highend jobs (like paramedic, lawer etc..) meaning not only are they unable to meet the production capibilities in the books they are understaffed on all pretty much non-military jobs. the only way that could even have a glimmer of hope to work is if everyone worked for the state. which isnt likely to be the case.

Also, who says reading is necessary? At ford the ford assembly plant, the line job itself is rather bland, no reading necessary. There is also stated that the upper class are going to be educated in reading. So those who are in the know...know. Finally, I think it was stated that about 12% of the population (generally wealthy) enjoy a proper education.

That's a bit more than 5%.

Many services that may seem to need reading, probably wouldn't, or a simple auto-reader would do. Medicine for example, you wouldn't need much reading. Nothing that couldn't be replaced with monitors. If you need a medication, you simply "speak" the name of what you want, and it's dispensed. As a paramedic, you probably have IRMSS kits, which perform as well as a doctor.

Well yes DB that still does not justify there production output. simple put to small a population and not enough resources overall. i mean really where do they find all this new metal for therer bots and weopns etc... even if they scavanged that still wouldnt add a great deal because very few peoeple on rifts earth have any type of robot or powerarmor. and even there trade agreement with the NGR still wouldnt justify there production in the books.

I think you're grosly underestimating the automation the coalition uses. They have enough experience with AI that they've made a competant second army of robots with the skelebots. On top of that, they're likely using either refurbished stuff from the golden age, or new stuff built from those plans. Considering what ARCHIE 3 is able to pump out from only 3 factories, it makes sense that they're able to produce what they do.

And I'm not addressing the resources part again.

[Captain Shiva]

I have not read all the replies to your question . My thought is that it is less about production capabilities and more about delivery . A front line combat unit could loose important equipment . The equipment is sitting a ware house in Chi Town that is weeks away by traveling .

Just curious as to why you think it would be weeks away? Would not the CS use planes, helecoptors and other such things to resupply the front line. About how long of a flight is it when traveling at 200 MPH from Chi-town to even tolkeen?

In the real world, Chicago is appromimately 300 miles from Minneapolis.