QUASI-LEGAL Munchkinism! (or, scaring the Pants off your GM)

cornholioprime · Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:10 pm

Crazy Lou wrote:I know there needs to be combustibles nearby for nukes to cause fire, but I'm saying since fire sponge gets damage variable with the power of the fire, and I figured nuclear fire is MD and worse than "normal" MD fire (like from a flamethrower) so would the fire caused by the nuke when sponged up allow a more powerful blast than a "burning house or area of forest fire" sized fire (which is lots of normal fire in a 350-750 (lvls 7-15) foot radius). Well since MD is x100 as bad a "normal" fire, and nukes get a 50' blast radius, that'd be like absorbing 5000' of normal fire with the spell. So i was just asking in that event would more damage be done? I know that's circumstantial and not even terribly munchy, but I figured this was a thread in which I could ask in passing

You probably need to stop using "nuclear" and "fire" in the same sentence.

The Dx100 damage from a Nuke is damage from the Nuclear reaction itself, not from any fire, even if combustibles are in range. Sorry, but there's not really all that much "fire" in a Nuke, and there's definitely no way that a normally fire-proof creature can soak it up anyway; the Burster or Fire Elemental or what-have-you would have his/her/its own hands full getting destroyed at the molecular level...or getting squashed by the rapidly following Blast Wave. :-?

Please realize in passing that most combustible objects in the range of the nuclear flash at Ground Zero (and a good deal beyond it) aren't actually burned...they are vaporized..

Library Ogre · Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:56 pm

Having just skipped over two porn ads, I looked at the word "Munchkin" in the title of this thread and thought "Sweet Blessed Mother, what the heck are they advertising now?"

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:00 am

Mark Hall wrote:Having just skipped over two porn ads, I looked at the word "Munchkin" in the title of this thread and thought "Sweet Blessed Mother, what the heck are they advertising now?"

Especially when one of the spambots has a title that looks like it'd be a legit thread. :lol:

cornholioprime · Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:18 am

psychopsiman wrote:OK, how about this for a WAY over powered psychic

Psiman
Race: Neo-Human
Alignment: was diabolic now principled
HitPoints: 275
S.D.C.: 950
PPE: 12
I.S.P: 1428
Age: 200, lifespan is roughly 5500 years
Height: 6' 8"
Weight: 295
Horror Factor: 9
Attributes:
IQ: 26
ME: 34
MA: 27
PS: 52(supernatural)
PP: 26
PE: 35
PB: 14-24
SPD: 58
Experiance Level: 15th lvl Neo-Human Duelist/Sea Inquisitor
has had biowizardry augmentation to increase sdc, str to supernatural, than subjected to the asylum light dimension, with mindwerks psi-implants than was modified by genesplicers before living in psyscape and being taught psi-swordmanship from an amaki Duelist before becoming a sea inquisitor. whee!!

skills:lots(about 30)
Combat Skills:
Hand to Hand: Martial Arts
Attacks per round: 9(11 when using PsiSwords)
Bonuses:+6initiative(+12 on first rd, +18 on first rd when armed with psi-swords, +12 on all other rounds with psi-swords)
+9 to strike(+16 with psi-swords)
+16 parry/dodge(+23parry/+18 dodge when armed with psi-swords)
+5 disarm
+12 roll with impact
+6 pull punch
auto-dodge
Critical hit+Knockout/Stun on an unmodified 18, 19, 20 strike roll
Paired Weapons
Other Bonuses:
+16 vs HF
+10 vs possession & mind control attacks
+9 vs magic/poison
+8 vs psionics

Special Abilities:
Magical & Psionic Dispersal: can dispel up to 150PPE/ISP points worth of attacks against him PER ROUND
Sheild of Inner Spirit: 250MDC 1 hour duration, 15 times per day
TeleKinetic Force Field auto defense: 450MDC 20isp cost instantly activates CANNOT BE SUPRISED(thanks to sixth sense) also reactivate within 1 melee attack if overwhelmed
Psychometric booster: increase range, duration & damage of physical, healing & super psi powers by 50% sensitive by 100%
Transform into Pure Energy 270isp
Double the range & duation of all sensitive powers
super psi power of Psi-Sword is doubled in range, duration & damage
can become an MDC being with 1225 mdc but reduces isp to half
Hyper-Telekinesis: up to 4900lbs, 850' range, up to 25d4 damage
TK Flight 100mph 15isp 30min duration
All attacks do DOUBLE damage to evil supernatural creatures. this includes vampires, dragons, entities, godlings & other supernatural beings
Sense Supernatural Evil 1500' (2500' when searching for evil) 2isp 75min duration
AND THE PIECE DE RESISTANCE:
Psi-Sword does 4d6+ 2d6 at 4th,7th, 9th, 12th & 15th = 14d6 + 50% from PM booster = 21d6 then doubled from psyscape power = 42d6 and can wield 2 at the same time
MAXIMUM DAMAGE PER ROUND: 11 dual attacks @ 42d6 = minimum damage(if all hit) 924 mdc, normal maximum 5544mdc, with crit hits 11088. Remember to double all these against evil supernatural creatures
so he can have 700mdc of forcefields up for up to 15hours than a 450mdc force field + 1225 mdc body!!! AND remeber 150 ppe/isp pts dispersed PER ROUND. pretty tough
what do ya'll think?

First...welcome to the boards, and welcome to what is, if I'm not mistaken, the second-longest actively running Thread in the entire Palladium Forums (I sing its praises because it's mine, of course).

Second....we have the all-time Champeen in this Thread which is to this very day the Scarecrow Mystic Knight..but even so, you've come up with quite the legal munchkin there.

Subjugator · Unread post by **Subjugator** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:16 pm

cornholioprime wrote:Second....we have the all-time Champeen in this Thread which is to this very day the Scarecrow Mystic Knight..but even so, you've come up with quite the legal munchkin there.

The Scarecrow Mystic Knight was only the winner because the Mulka were disallowed.

/Sub

Rockwolf66 · Unread post by **Rockwolf66** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:19 pm

Speaking of Mystic Knight's I'm wondering if it would be possible to put a budding Amazonian Mystic through Mystic Knight Training. The potential Combination is obscene in it's potential.

Elthbert · Unread post by **Elthbert** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:06 am

cornholioprime wrote:
Kestrel wrote:Cornholioprime wrote:
My Fallen Cosmo-Knight Harvester laughs at your puny Sea Inquisitor Demigod.

Maybe. I haven't picked an OCC yet. (spell caster, or harvester? So many choices. Maybe a Zone boy from Rifts Manhunter..superpowers and a ton of skills to make a rogue scholar cry.)

Besides, with the Sea Inquisitor's experience point table, I level up faster than a vagabond with a Monty Haul GM.

The Mulka was a great call as well.
Is a Mulka an official Rifts Creature or is it one of those Creations from one of the Non-Palladium Rifts Books like Manhunter???

If it's from a Book like that, I'm not so sure that it should count........

Why wouldn't Manhunter be official--- it was a licensed product and franly it was fairly well balanced I thought.

LostOne · Unread post by **LostOne** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:18 am

Giant2005 wrote:An Altess Ecto Traveller.

Where is the ecto traveller o.c.c.?

Cybermancer · Unread post by **Cybermancer** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:34 pm

Pyrobird wrote:

1st level rouge scholar: All lore skills.

Hardcore, man, hardcore. My GM hardley allowed this its so insanely overpowered.

I actually managed to sneak one of these by my GM. He has NO idea what he's in for!

Knowledge IS power. The CS knows, that's why they fear me!

cornholioprime · Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:41 am

Mark Hall wrote:Having just skipped over two porn ads, I looked at the word "Munchkin" in the title of this thread and thought "Sweet Blessed Mother, what the heck are they advertising now?"

I just CANNOT believe that you've missed seeing one of the oldest continuous Threads in all of the Palladium Forums, all this time.

Library Ogre · Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:02 am

cornholioprime wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:Having just skipped over two porn ads, I looked at the word "Munchkin" in the title of this thread and thought "Sweet Blessed Mother, what the heck are they advertising now?"
I just CANNOT believe that you've missed seeing one of the oldest continuous Threads in all of the Palladium Forums, all this time.

Oh, I didn't miss it. I've probably posted in it prior to that, even. It just ran in my brain as "Another porn ad, skip it."

Mouser13 · Unread post by **Mouser13** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:16 pm

I always like the Soul Harvester That could buy fiery weapons from alantis for 100,000 credits to get 1D4X100 P.P.E x 2 per level. Then at like level 10 turn him self into a undead via necro ritual. Since the HP of the Undead is based on how much P.P.E. the person has. He would have like 1500-3000 HP.

Also just like a evil air warlock abuse his summoned elementals for P.P.E. Since the 5th level summon spell cost 30 P.P.E. but comes with 100 P.P.E.. So the Air warlock can take the 70% of his P.P.E. Giving him a net of 40 P.P.E.

Mouser13 · Unread post by **Mouser13** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:22 pm

Though not a character so much but any mage can do it.

Lifeward on armor. THen after the armor broken the lifeward triggers seeing you are normal S.D.C. character it triggers. Then the mage casts giant. Which would then make you immune to all damage save very large explosions Since you take only S.D.C damage.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:52 pm

Mouser13 wrote:Though not a character so much but any mage can do it.

Lifeward on armor. THen after the armor broken the lifeward triggers seeing you are normal S.D.C. character it triggers. Then the mage casts giant. Which would then make you immune to all damage save very large explosions Since you take only S.D.C damage.

Me likes this one very much !! :evil:

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:45 pm

Lenwen wrote:
Mouser13 wrote:Though not a character so much but any mage can do it.

Lifeward on armor. THen after the armor broken the lifeward triggers seeing you are normal S.D.C. character it triggers. Then the mage casts giant. Which would then make you immune to all damage save very large explosions Since you take only S.D.C damage.

Me likes this one very much !!

very nice.

I've been playing around with giant a bit too recently:

I made an ursa warrior and just for fun gave him ever single mutation under abnormalities and the general ones used to improve creatures which could be beneficial to him. With all the PE and PS and SDC bonuses, etc, and especially Hulking Monster, and his already SN PS and PE, I figured (and I have the exact somewhere, but I don't feel like digging it out right now) he has about 3100 something SDC and 1004 HP, and exactly 118 SN PS and 168 SN PE! Which is a bit absurd. It was a polar bear, and when I rolled the stats, he also turned out to be a genius (IQ 24) -- I count racial attrib bonuses as natural and count towards the > or = to 16 attrib gets bonus die roll rule. And I also used the human mutations table (yes I know he's not human, but I figured that since most of that stuff is all mental or neurally affecting (skills, or stuff)) and gave him natural talent, or whatever, and picked boxing and general athletics, so he gets +2 attacks/round, and +8 parry/dodge

For damage with such high SN PS I used the rifter 3 SN PS damage table for Martial Artists with absurd ones (ie: via the last golden animus thing that gives something like 2 SN PS and 50 MDC per point of chi, or some such munchkinery like that), which was 2D6x10 per normal attack. But with the Hulking Monster thing, damage is doubled! hehe. 4D6x10 MD per melee attack. And he's ambidexterous...

anyway, about the giant thing -- I was trying to figure how to make him MDC, and figured that a perm ward giant spell would do nicely... ~12,000 MDC, and regens 2D6/melee (at average of 7/round, that's between 7 & 8 hours to go from nearly dead to fully recovered).

A bit far out there, and certainly not the most powerful munchkin, but I thought it was fun all the same.

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:05 am

Hey Corny, I just noticed your thread here got trimmed down from 55+ pages to 16.

LostOne · Unread post by **LostOne** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:11 am

Mouser13 wrote:Lifeward on armor. THen after the armor broken the lifeward triggers seeing you are normal S.D.C. character it triggers. Then the mage casts giant. Which would then make you immune to all damage save very large explosions Since you take only S.D.C damage.

Followed by the GM severely beating the player.

Or the GM ruling that the second the player turns MDC the Lifeward fizzles since it requires an SDC target.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:42 pm

Dog_O_War wrote:
Zerebus wrote:But really, a Phaeton Juicer in a Glitterboy would be a scary, scary thing.

Not as scary as a Phaeton Juicer inside a tank that can do 60mph. Remember that the Glitterboy has to remain stationary when it fires the boomgun; an opportunity to strike the Juicer unhindered.

But in that tank, not only is he capable of firing boomgun quality cannons, but he can bloody auto-dodge.

Soldier1; "did...did that tank just pull up on one tread and dodge that missile volley?!"

Soldier2; "yes..? Maybe we should surrender now."

Soldier1; "yeah. Breaking out the white flag as we speak..."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I HAD TO POST THIS OMFG HALAROIUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phaeton Juicer an Tanks === I win Rifts !!!!!

cornholioprime · Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:02 am

The Beast wrote:Hey Corny, I just noticed your thread here got trimmed down from 55+ pages to 16.

Chad · Unread post by **Chad** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:21 pm

Ok-

A Neo-Human, Sea Inquisitor, Cosmo-Knight, Phase Mystic with Chi-Gung Seng Ren ISP regeneration, Maxi-Killer symbiote and the spell Invulnerability always on as a Super Power.

His starting equipment includes Thor's Hammer.

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:43 pm

crew of phaetons in the TGE crazy hovertank of unstoppableness! It gets auto dodge (unless I miss something!) That'd be crazy!

And I call my own thread necromancy!

rat_bastard · Unread post by **rat_bastard** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:38 pm

A Fennodi Sniper

A Starke Spinne Rogue Scientist.

Edit: ooh A Rulian Translator Rogue Scholar

Two of the scariest race/profession combo's I've worked out.

Balabanto · Unread post by **Balabanto** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:56 pm

I'm not sure. True Atlantean Cyberknight might belong on the list, since there'd A) Really be no way to determine he's a true atlantean (since 1 in 200 cyberknights have the magic tattoos anyway) and B) if they take the 75 MDC/Level invulnerability field they radically become ridiculous quickly.

If you add the rules in Rifter #3, you can then take O-Ken-Wa, even under the most restrictive of GMs, since it says the art survived the coming of the rifts. Add a couple Amaki-TW hilts, and what you have, quite frankly, is an utter monster. What else does it really need? Who cares if it's an SDC creature? At 15th level, that has more MDC than the psionic horror recently listed, and your character will have approximately 1125 MDC and another 150 from a psychic body field. BUT...you can double that to 300 if your Atlantean was born in Psyscape, for a grand total of 1425, not to mention that you could take the Knight Tattoo on top of that (But flying and supernatural strength and eyes: three are better, because then you don't have to waste psionic power selections on them and your PPE doesn't increase) Take fencing to add an extra d6 of Sword Damage

Plus, no ISP for Psi Sword means that if you really want, and you were born in Psyscape, you can FORGET about the body field, take Psi-Sword and double that, for a whopping 31d6 of damage with your primary hand and only 8d6 with your off hand (Oh, nooooo!) Add that to your 14 attacks, and what you have is nothing less than ungodly. Plus, you're using paired psi-swords as a 17th level character, AND can kick people in the head when you parry them with simultaneous attack/parry.

So, 1275 MDC, enough Psionics to be ridiculous, more attacks than anything except a similarly loaded Battle Magus, and more bonuses than you can shake a stick at. Say ow. And hey, you know, your cyberknight can BECOME a battle magus when he's done if you want to be the king of cheese.

Mouser13 · Unread post by **Mouser13** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:15 pm

Temporal Wizard turned soul harvester. Uses ID-self to some copies of himself for harvesting.

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:54 pm

Mouser13 wrote:Temporal Wizard turned soul harvester. Uses ID-self to some copies of himself for harvesting.

Would the copies have a soul?

khyron1144 · Unread post by **khyron1144** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:55 am

I feel ashamed that my best Munchkin idea so far has been a Juicer Gladiator Killhound.

Basically just a way to get impressive physical stats and decently high S.D.C.

Hmm... going with the hybrid idea, how about a Demon Lord Immortal from Powers Unlimited 2 with the additional powers granted by a Magic Weapon in Heroes Unlimited?

M.D.C. being in Rifts. Weapon does nifty stuff itself, and it confers super powers. And PU2 immortals already get their own powers, either super or Psionics or Spells. Actually Demon Lords get one additional Major Power in addition to whatever they roll at random.

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:57 pm

Couldn't the chronos demi-god/godling thing just beat you into submission, then absorb you?

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:09 pm

In defense of the part about needing to be a demigod not demiSN INT, the god part comes from the other parent, a real god, and the SN INT part comes from chronos, the other parent. And SN INT counts as a race. It's even described how to roll up generic ones in CB1. So, while you'll never see a SN INT NPC who isn't just some crazy blob thing controlling an evil empire, it is technically possible. And since it's a race, it is technically possible for a god to procreate with one (they can w/ any race after all).

On the note of very precise GM interpretation of a small textual bit, I certainly admit your point. However, this is "QUASI-LEGAL" as noted in the thread title. It's a stretch, but that interpretation is semi-legal, if absurdly unfair. As such it should be considered a fair entrant to this competition, imo. However, I can also appreciate your perspective of wanting a more legal opponent for your creation.

I submit a Godling w/ 2 magic selections (Spatial Mage and TW) and the mind melter psionics with a Harvester and Diobolist dual-class, who has harvested 25 Cosmo-Knights who all had 600 PPE and 5 powerful mages (to get some spells of legend). (also, if CKs can't be harvested -- I don't remember why they mightn't, but if they aren't -- then I'll just take some race w/ possible 600+ PPE. I know there are a couple of them out there that can be harvested.) Then I spend about 2000 of that PPE (or maybe even 3000) to create a huge domain with 2400 or 3600 specialty points. Make its barriers to the realm pretty much impossible to beat down and which only has 1 entrance portal which needs a special code to enter (and pick an absurd code of a 24 hour long combination dance and special motions while reciting a series of thousands of random numbers, words, etc, so that it's pretty much impossible to enter or leave the realm). Put the portal at the bottom of an ocean trench or the middle of deep inter-galactic space, or something crazy so it pretty much will never be found. Take instant transport to the realm and instant transport within the realm. Now I make the realm crazy to my heart's content, after spending enough specialty points first to pretty much make everything unworkable (magic, psionics, nightbane talents, superpowers, several kinds of technology, electricity, supernatural strength, magic weapons, all forms of dimensional teleportation and regular teleportation) and give yourself the exception. Now anyone who's fighting you has virtually no chance. But, just to be sure, you also make a fortress with a room exactly the size of the Sanctum spell of legend (which as a person this powerful shouldn't have problems getting), which you then permenance ward into existence. You put a bunch of fortifications around that too, like permenant impenetrable walls of force, barriers of thoth, etc. Now, if your astral scarecrow knight guy wants to fight, either he lets me take him to my battleground of choice, or I just insta-port there and chill until he can get in. Have fun fighting me on my home field... Any agression either doesn't work or incapacitates you, while i can still fight, plus, you basically have no way to fight me except with SDC melee weapons (against my MDC), and that's if you can find a way to actually harm me. Plus, for extra caution I can boost my MDC and all my stats really high, and give myself the power to cast almost any couple of spells at no cost in my realm. I also bother have one of the mages I harvested have the spell Phantom Air Warlock spell so I can combine it w/ energy sphere to have an extra reserve of about 100,000+ PPE on hand all the time, just in case I want it for anything.

Basically, either this ends in a stalemate, with neither of us ever fighting each other, or you lose.
Unless there's a way that I don't know of to force an enemy to be summoned to you. Or a way that you can force someone to be dimensionally teleported somewhere you want. In either such case, you will then just lose. Because once you're in the sanctum arena, it's impossible to get out, and you lose when I come to finish you at my leisure.

So I guess this is the part where people try to poke holes in my plans?

Balabanto · Unread post by **Balabanto** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:33 am

The Scarecrow Mystic Knight is easily terminated.

There's a fifth level Invocation called Mental Blast. Look it up. It deals Psionic Damage direct to hit points, he saves as a psionic, and unless he's a mind melter, he doesn't know where the psychic is. So since he takes twice the damage, he dies pretty quick. And all it takes to beat him is a Ley Line Walker. And if I go into melee with him, and hack his armor down, I can touch him and deal even MORE damage.

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:16 pm

Balabanto wrote:The Scarecrow Mystic Knight is easily terminated.

There's a fifth level Invocation called Mental Blast. Look it up. It deals Psionic Damage direct to hit points, he saves as a psionic, and unless he's a mind melter, he doesn't know where the psychic is. So since he takes twice the damage, he dies pretty quick. And all it takes to beat him is a Ley Line Walker. And if I go into melee with him, and hack his armor down, I can touch him and deal even MORE damage.

???

LostOne · Unread post by **LostOne** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:05 pm

Balabanto wrote:The Scarecrow Mystic Knight is easily terminated.

There's a fifth level Invocation called Mental Blast. Look it up. It deals Psionic Damage direct to hit points, he saves as a psionic, and unless he's a mind melter, he doesn't know where the psychic is. So since he takes twice the damage, he dies pretty quick. And all it takes to beat him is a Ley Line Walker. And if I go into melee with him, and hack his armor down, I can touch him and deal even MORE damage.

That defeats him, but he'll regenerate from it. He can only permanently be killed by fire...assuming you can remove his immunity to energy he gets from his class.

The Galactus Kid · Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:31 pm

I wrote somewhere in Madhaven (and I have to go back and check on this) that scarecrows can't be mystic knights, white rose or otherwise.

LostOne · Unread post by **LostOne** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:01 pm

The Galactus Kid wrote:I wrote somewhere in Madhaven (and I have to go back and check on this) that scarecrows can't be mystic knights, white rose or otherwise.

I don't have Madhaven. :fool:

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:53 pm

It was my understanding that an RCC weakness overrules an OCC bonus.

LostOne · Unread post by **LostOne** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:22 pm

The Beast wrote:It was my understanding that an RCC weakness overrules an OCC bonus.

If it does, I've never seen an actual rule for it.

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:08 pm

LostOne wrote:
The Beast wrote:It was my understanding that an RCC weakness overrules an OCC bonus.

If it does, I've never seen an actual rule for it.

It might have been a house rule.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:56 pm

I would say a dead-dead (not just coma-dead) mystic knight or burster would lose their immunity to energy/fire, since they're both intimated to be psionic, not physical, in nature. Dead = no brain activity = no psionic activity.

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:22 pm

WB16, page 93, bullet 4:

The Mystic Knight is impervious to lasers, ion blasts, particle beams, plasma bolts, electricity, fire, heat, and radiation.

Magically created energy and ley line storms inflict half damage.

What does the underlined protion mean? The way I'm reading that is that a scarecrow mystic knight is still vunerable to magically created fire.

cornholioprime · Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:49 pm

The Beast wrote:WB16, page 93, bullet 4:
The Mystic Knight is impervious to lasers, ion blasts, particle beams, plasma bolts, electricity, fire, heat, and radiation.

Magically created energy and ley line storms inflict half damage.

What does the underlined protion mean? The way I'm reading that is that a scarecrow mystic knight is still vunerable to magically created fire.

It would seem that, at long long last, somebody has discovered that what was thought to be invincible before -the Mystic Knight Scarecrow -might not be the MOST legally munchkin PC after all!! :eek:

The Galactus Kid · Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:51 pm

cornholioprime wrote:
The Beast wrote:WB16, page 93, bullet 4:
The Mystic Knight is impervious to lasers, ion blasts, particle beams, plasma bolts, electricity, fire, heat, and radiation.

Magically created energy and ley line storms inflict half damage.

What does the underlined protion mean? The way I'm reading that is that a scarecrow mystic knight is still vunerable to magically created fire.
It would seem that, at long long last, somebody has discovered that what was thought to be invincible before -the Mystic Knight Scarecrow -might not be the MOST legally munchkin PC after all!!

I have to go check Madhaven again, but I thought that I inserted something about how scarecrows COULDN'T be mystic knights.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:32 pm

Can't they be bursters, however?

Talavar · Unread post by **Talavar** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:56 pm

A scarecrow burster is actually worse, since they're even immune to magic fire (assuming it's quasi-legal for a scarecrow to be one).

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:47 am

Thinyser wrote:
Findar wrote:
Thinyser wrote:my personal new favorite is a Silhoette Temporal warrior...Huge PPE base and lotsa kool abilties and bonuses plus spells.... mwahahaha mwahahaha....
new and improved with the combo of spells universal balance and giant so universal balance turns his 100 MDC to 10,000 SDC and giant tripples this to 30,000 and changes it back to MDC so thats 100 MDC to 30,000 MDC with only 2 spells! Is that not freaking awsome?!?!?!
What book is Universal Balance from?

Man i cannot remember nor can i find it again....can sombody else help on this.

In case this hasn't been answered by now, it's from the Native American magic in the BOM.

And I can't find who originated the Dwarven Titan Juicer turned Murder-Wraith, but add in exposure to Hypertane and then the rift in Azlum prior to becoming a Murder-Wraith.

Hypertane = a mutagen (ala TMNT) that provides superpowers, known to work on humans & animals (so it could work on dwarves, just test it on a few prior to you PC just in case).

The Azlum rift = psionic powers, alignment change (likely evil now so you would go for the Murder-Wraith conversion).

Hell, while you're at it, add six magic tattooes prior to the conversion as well.

Wait a sec, have the dwarf spend the required time to learn the martial art that starts with Dim Mak from N&S prior to the Titan Juicer conversion.

Let's add this all up:

Dwarf (CB1 stats): PS = 4d6+2, PE = 4d6, nightvision, natural aptitude for weapon design, lives 250 years.

Tien-Hsueh Touch Mastery = +4 to ME, +2 to MA, Dim Mak is available automatically, can select 3 powers from either Arts of Invisibility, Atemi Abilities, or Chi Mastery. Can learn more powrs as one levels up.

Titan Juicer = available to dwarves, +3d6*100 to SDC, +1d4*100 to HP, +3d4 to PE, +2d6+8 to PS, with a minimum PS of 30. This is now considered supernatural as well. Gets auto-dodge on all attacks.

Hypertane = Found under Hazmat in Gramercy Island. Know to have made 2 supervillians and 1 mutant lab rat. Debatable as to if it works on dwarves.

Magic Tattooes = :oops:

My bad, not available to dwarves.

Murder-Wraith = +1d4+2 PS, PE is now supernatural, only vulnerable to silver and magic weapons, regenerates 3d6 HP at the end of every melee round, horror factor of 14. Lifespan may now be eternal until destroyed. On the downside you're undead, sunlight is painful (not fatal though), you're a slave to the one who "created" you (until you kill him that is), and you need to feed on the living (though you're already diabolic from the martial art form). Also your xp level is frozen at the moment you become a Murder-Wraith.

Ahulane · Unread post by **Ahulane** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:55 am

In case this hasn't been answered by now, it's from the Native American magic in the BOM.

And I can't find who originated the Dwarven Titan Juicer turned Murder-Wraith, but add in exposure to Hypertane and then the rift in Azlum prior to becoming a Murder-Wraith.

Hypertane = a mutagen (ala TMNT) that provides superpowers, known to work on humans & animals (so it could work on dwarves, just test it on a few prior to you PC just in case).

The Azlum rift = psionic powers, alignment change (likely evil now so you would go for the Murder-Wraith conversion).

Hell, while you're at it, add six magic tattooes prior to the conversion as well.

Wait a sec, have the dwarf spend the required time to learn the martial art that starts with Dim Mak from N&S prior to the Titan Juicer conversion.

Let's add this all up:

Dwarf (CB1 stats): PS = 4d6+2, PE = 4d6, nightvision, natural aptitude for weapon design, lives 250 years.

Tien-Hsueh Touch Mastery = +4 to ME, +2 to MA, Dim Mak is available automatically, can select 3 powers from either Arts of Invisibility, Atemi Abilities, or Chi Mastery. Can learn more powrs as one levels up.

Titan Juicer = available to dwarves, +3d6*100 to SDC, +1d4*100 to HP, +3d4 to PE, +2d6+8 to PS, with a minimum PS of 30. This is now considered supernatural as well. Gets auto-dodge on all attacks.

Hypertane = Found under Hazmat in Gramercy Island. Know to have made 2 supervillians and 1 mutant lab rat. Debatable as to if it works on dwarves.

Magic Tattooes = My bad, not available to dwarves.

Murder-Wraith = +1d4+2 PS, PE is now supernatural, only vulnerable to silver and magic weapons, regenerates 3d6 HP at the end of every melee round, horror factor of 14. Lifespan may now be eternal until destroyed. On the downside you're undead, sunlight is painful (not fatal though), you're a slave to the one who "created" you (until you kill him that is), and you need to feed on the living (though you're already diabolic from the martial art form). Also your xp level is frozen at the moment you become a Murder-Wraith.

An army of skelebots with silver rounds in their rail guns rip your murder wraith apart, you manage to kill several but in the end you die from sheer numbers. I'm not a 100% but I think when you become a member of the undead your superpowers (and magic tattoo's) cease to function, as your dead.

Can't they be bursters, however?

Originally Bursters were an RCC I think, which meant that a scarecrow demon wouldn't have been able to be one, but in UE they are an OCC so it may be a possibility, in which case they would become nigh invincible.

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:16 am

Ahulane wrote:An army of skelebots with silver rounds in their rail guns rip your murder wraith apart, you manage to kill several but in the end you die from sheer numbers.

That would be true. Too bad Skelebots come with variable frequency lasers and not railguns. Plus I never said he'd be unstoppable, there's a few already mentioned that could take him on. It's just that he'd be really hard to put down.

I'm not a 100% but I think when you become a member of the undead your superpowers (and magic tattoo's) cease to function, as your dead.

Nothing in the Murder-Wraith description says you lose anything (other than being alive) when you become one. It does specifically state that you would retain all of you previous juicer powers. Aside from that, there's nothing that says you lose powers when you become undead, with the known exception of mages losing some or their magic when becoming a master or secondary vampire (I think they lose all of it if they become a wild vampire).

Ahulane · Unread post by **Ahulane** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:14 am

That would be true. Too bad Skelebots come with variable frequency lasers and not railguns. Plus I never said he'd be unstoppable, there's a few already mentioned that could take him on. It's just that he'd be really hard to put down.

Yeah I totally agree he'd be hard to take down if you just happened across him.

Skelebots can also come with rail guns, think it's in CWC for the newer models. I may be wrong though, still, even a gunslinger or two with some silver ammunition would be a pretty tough fight for your dwarf murder wraith deal.

Nothing in the Murder-Wraith description says you lose anything (other than being alive) when you become one. It does specifically state that you would retain all of you previous juicer powers. Aside from that, there's nothing that says you lose powers when you become undead, with the known exception of mages losing some or their magic when becoming a master or secondary vampire (I think they lose all of it if they become a wild vampire).

Oh I was just going in general, super powered vamps don't exist, nor can they unless they gain their powers from mystic artifacts, so I was assuming the same with murder-wraiths since they are a form of supernatural undead like vampires. But as you said, they retain their juicer abilities so it's plausible that they could retain superpowers.

That defeats him, but he'll regenerate from it. He can only permanently be killed by fire...assuming you can remove his immunity to energy he gets from his class.

Since your still a demon...a summoner summons you inside a magic cauldron and melts you. Just a possibility...I think...yeah that should work...

Another idea for a Quasi-Legal munchkin...

Demi-god, son of the Juggernaut (dragons and gods) and a silhouette female, he gains the ability from his father to regenerate even when atomized and possesses the high PPE base of his mother's side and a few innate magic spells and abilities. For the other power choices I'd give him Warlock Earth and Air spells as well as Shifter spells. His OCC choices would be Techno-Wizard at 15th level, Cyber-Knight at 15th level, and Gladiator at 15th.

-Techno-Wizard allows him to basically make any spell in his arsenal, instant cast if done correctly.

-Cyber-Knight provides him with absurd bonuses vs. anyone using any kind of tech against him in combat as well as two psi weapons that, while aren't all that powerful, are just good to have around.

-Gladiator gives him access to one of the best Hand to Hand styles in the game as well as additional augmentation. With this OCC I would choose superpowers of Supersonic Flight and Immune to Psionics (maybe more, not sure how many picks you get from invincible guardsman, if the immune to psi isn't possible then just take invulnerability, have to take a gander at gladiator again).

Since he access to shifter and warlock spells I'd spend a significant amount of time setting up teleportation pads around the universe with remote access devices that would allow me to teleport anywhere for a small investment of PPE. I'd also spend a significant amount of time building quake and tornado and other weather TW devices that can be remotely activated so that I could pose as a deity on more primitive planets and construct a cult of followers that would allow me to ascend into godhood. I would also spend a fair amount of time dabbling in space magic (rifter #10 i think) and incorporating those spells into devices that would allow me to travel throughout space with some ease.

Pretty much if he took his time his only weakness would be psionics (possibly) and he'd suffer a few penalties from being in the light but he can create darkness naturally if I'm not mistaken, giving him an even bigger advantage. In hand to hand he'd be almost unbeatable especially if you used weapon and skill specialization and mastery from rifter 30...not to mention his regular skills if he chose to invest more time improving them with specialization and masteries. This character could even give my son of chronos a run for his money just because of the powers at his disposal, though, he'd have to stay at ranged if he wanted to live.

Thoughts? I may be leaving a few things out, but this is just off the top of my head.

LostOne · Unread post by **LostOne** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:27 am

Ahulane wrote:Since your still a demon...a summoner summons you inside a magic cauldron and melts you. Just a possibility...I think...yeah that should work...

Doesn't it take a while to destroy something in a cauldron? I haven't read those in years. Also, since it's a cauldron, it's open topped. How do you propose to keep him in the cauldron?

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:02 pm

where's the gladiator occ again?

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:59 pm

LostOne wrote:
Ahulane wrote:Since your still a demon...a summoner summons you inside a magic cauldron and melts you. Just a possibility...I think...yeah that should work...

Doesn't it take a while to destroy something in a cauldron? I haven't read those in years. Also, since it's a cauldron, it's open topped. How do you propose to keep him in the cauldron?

Carpet of Adhesion, and/or Magic Net, and/or some other similar spell/power.

Ahulane wrote:Oh I was just going in general, super powered vamps don't exist, nor can they unless they gain their powers from mystic artifacts, so I was assuming the same with murder-wraiths since they are a form of supernatural undead like vampires. But as you said, they retain their juicer abilities so it's plausible that they could retain superpowers.

Here's the thing though, Palladium has never made clear one way or another if someone with superpowers would lose them if they were turned into a vampire. Furthermore, I think that there are one or two cases of psychics keeping most of their powers after becoming a vampire, I could be wrong though. So it could be that some powers are retained after becoming an undead. The only thing I could foresee being denied are some of the major abilites like the APS powers, Invulnerability, Bio-Ghost, and the sunlight-based powers.

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:17 pm

think how unfair a vampire w/ Invulnerability or SEE:Light would be... That would be so absurd. :lol: