Effect of PP on skills

[Nekira Sudacne]

As much as I like the Palladium system, I do have a problem with this. On the higher than average stats section of RUE (or indeed any Rifts, PFRPG, Nightbane, ATB, BTSN, etc book) A higher than average IQ gives a bonus to all skills which I believe is a good system as an intellectual character (high IQ) will undoubtedly be better at most skills than non-intellectual types (low IQ). There are, however, certain skills I don't think fall under the influence of Intelligence, for example all physical skills. The problem I have been having is that my character with a PP of 30 (A really good roll, plus physical skills), is oft worse at, say prowling, pickpocketing, palming etc. than a friends character that may have a low PP (even falling into the 7 and under category) and an extraordinary intelligence. Is there perhaps something I have been missing? I do know in the attributes below 7 section of RUE a low PP will result in a penalty to these types of skills, but is there any mention of a high PP effecting said skills either. If not, are there any good house rules out there, or shouldn't there be a bonus to said skills?

Any help and input is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

No, High PP has absolutely no effect on skills whatsoever.

[Balabanto]

The answer is, while this may be more "Realistic" in terms of what little game balance there is in Palladium, this would completely break the game. It's the argument of many Rifts GMs, myself included, that PP is already THE most important score in the entire game. Nothing else even comes close. The basic reality of physical combat insures that this is the stat that one needs most, even if someone is a Mind Melter, a Rogue Scholar, or a Mystic. Making it more important throws game balance out the window.

[rat_bastard]

The answer is, while this may be more "Realistic" in terms of what little game balance there is in Palladium, this would completely break the game. It's the argument of many Rifts GMs, myself included, that PP is already THE most important score in the entire game. Nothing else even comes close. The basic reality of physical combat insures that this is the stat that one needs most, even if someone is a Mind Melter, a Rogue Scholar, or a Mystic. Making it more important throws game balance out the window.

Are you kidding?

PP barely effects ranged combat, you can - if your GM plays with optional rules - dodge with a slightly lower penalty.

IQ with its blanket bonus to every skill is far more important.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The answer is, while this may be more "Realistic" in terms of what little game balance there is in Palladium, this would completely break the game. It's the argument of many Rifts GMs, myself included, that PP is already THE most important score in the entire game. Nothing else even comes close. The basic reality of physical combat insures that this is the stat that one needs most, even if someone is a Mind Melter, a Rogue Scholar, or a Mystic. Making it more important throws game balance out the window.

Are you kidding?

PP barely effects ranged combat, you can - if your GM plays with optional rules - dodge with a slightly lower penalty.

IQ with its blanket bonus to every skill is far more important.

In most of my games, at least 80% of combat is melee.

[Talavar]

I wish stats were represented better in skills across the board - the starting skill percentiles shoudl be lower, IQ should give a much larger bonus to most academic-type skills, PP to some that require good physical coordination, ME, PS & PE maybe for a few skills here and there, MA & PB for performance skills, seduction, etc.

[Captain Shiva]

As much as I like the Palladium system, I do have a problem with this. On the higher than average stats section of RUE (or indeed any Rifts, PFRPG, Nightbane, ATB, BTSN, etc book) A higher than average IQ gives a bonus to all skills which I believe is a good system as an intellectual character (high IQ) will undoubtedly be better at most skills than non-intellectual types (low IQ). There are, however, certain skills I don't think fall under the influence of Intelligence, for example all physical skills. The problem I have been having is that my character with a PP of 30 (A really good roll, plus physical skills), is oft worse at, say prowling, pickpocketing, palming etc. than a friends character that may have a low PP (even falling into the 7 and under category) and an extraordinary intelligence. Is there perhaps something I have been missing? I do know in the attributes below 7 section of RUE a low PP will result in a penalty to these types of skills, but is there any mention of a high PP effecting said skills either. If not, are there any good house rules out there, or shouldn't there be a bonus to said skills?

Any help and input is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Well, you could do this:use the same chart for PP as you do for IQ, and say that for instance, a PP of 30 gives you a +16% bonus to skills that are governed by PP. I could see for instance, acrobatics and gymnastics being elevated by PP, but not by IQ. Why should being smart enable you to do backflips better? You would need to go through the skill system, and determine which skills are governed by IQ, and which by PP. Lore skills would be governed by IQ for instance.

[drewkitty ~..~]

my own house rule

take the PP bonus x5 and add it to relivent physical skills like Gym and acro.

[Nekira Sudacne]

my own house rule

take the PP bonus x5 and add it to relivent physical skills like Gym and acro.

if your are 10, which is average, then x5 is 50. all gymnastic and acrobatics skills start over 60. in short you will start at 98% first level.

heck, if you have a PP of 16 or higher all physical stills start at 98%

[drewkitty ~..~]

my own house rule

take the PP bonus x5 and add it to relivent physical skills like Gym and acro.

if your are 10, which is average, then x5 is 50. all gymnastic and acrobatics skills start over 60. in short you will start at 98% first level.

heck, if you have a PP of 16 or higher all physical stills start at 98%

If the char's PP is 10 then they wouldn't get anything. But if 16 a +5%, with the PP bonus maxing out at 40% for those with a PP of 30 or more.

[dhaerow]

Are you kidding?

PP barely effects ranged combat, you can - if your GM plays with optional rules - dodge with a slightly lower penalty.

IQ with its blanket bonus to every skill is far more important.

In most of my games, at least 80% of combat is melee.

Wow... Because 90% of combat in my games is ranged with the occasional juicer or similar going in for a flying drop-kick.

[mobuttu]

Here you can find some House rules about this (see Rule 3).

[Library Ogre]

Here you can find some House rules about this (see Rule 3).

And mobuttu beeped my horn for me.

He'll be brought up on charges in the morning. I expect that I'll be asked to show where he touched me on a Cabbage Patch Kid.

[ghost2020]

This is one of those good examples of why the system needs to be rewritten from the ground up.

I think making it a straight % system would be pretty decent. Dropping a lot of the sub-systems for rules and having everything under one general rule concept.

Yes people would gripe about it, but it needs a severe overhaul.

I will continue playing with my house rules, but if Palladium would make some changes to their ruleset, then relaunch all of their lines, that'd be awesome.

One core book, call it the Megaverse RPG. Then release a RIFTS setting book, then Heroes, BtS. That would totally rule.

There's enough back product for people to play for an entire lifetime or four.

I think it would be ok to just start over. Sometimes it has to happen, it'd breathe new life into the system and possibly the fan base by attracting new players and old players that have left.

Unfortunately, I know it'll never happen, but it'd be nice if it would.

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is one of those good examples of why the system needs to be rewritten from the ground up.

I think making it a straight % system would be pretty decent. Dropping a lot of the sub-systems for rules and having everything under one general rule concept.

Yes people would gripe about it, but it needs a severe overhaul.

Why? Why is attributes not directly tieing into skills any worse now than it was 30 years ago?

[ghost2020]

Game design has evolved.

Personally, I like having a system that if my character has a good hand/eye coordination, his shooting, balance, throwing and whatever skills can be influenced by it. Same with his having a poor coordination. He should be missing and stumbling about.

Just a personal preference and it seems like most gamers prefer that in their game systems.

[Library Ogre]

meh do it yourself - why make all the other books useless?

Depends on how you do it.

If you use my method (posted by mobottu), then you don't make all previous books useless... you simply add on the fly.

[ghost2020]

I'm just saying, and no jerkiness implied ok? is that it wouldn't be the end of the world to redo the system from ground up.

It's happened to D&D, Traveller and a few other systems. All of those are still quite popular in all of their incarnations.

The books wouldn't be useless, they'd still be useable with the existing rules that were written for them. No one would take them away from you.

Lots of game lines do an entire rules reboot and aren't afraid to leave the old version entirely behind. Sometimes it's just what it takes.

Just talking, it's not like it's going to happen anyway.

Personally, I'd love to see it done. A totally streamlined system that was modular and worked like a charm. Playtested all to heck and back.
Then Rifts and Palladium could take their rightful place at the top of the rpg pile once again.
A new golden age.

[drewkitty ~..~]

better not, or I'll have some die to go throwing at PPL....


wait a min.... I don't use dice any more, ever I started playing on line.

[MikelAmroni]

I'm just saying, and no jerkiness implied ok? is that it wouldn't be the end of the world to redo the system from ground up.

It's happened to D&D, Traveller and a few other systems. All of those are still quite popular in all of their incarnations.

The books wouldn't be useless, they'd still be useable with the existing rules that were written for them. No one would take them away from you.

Lots of game lines do an entire rules reboot and aren't afraid to leave the old version entirely behind. Sometimes it's just what it takes.

Just talking, it's not like it's going to happen anyway.

Personally, I'd love to see it done. A totally streamlined system that was modular and worked like a charm. Playtested all to heck and back.
Then Rifts and Palladium could take their rightful place at the top of the rpg pile once again.
A new golden age.

Yeah, but of the things that are going to happen and are not going to happen, this is high on the not going to happen. If you don't make it absolutely backwards compatible, then every book ever written has to be rewritten, and only for rules, not for actual story. Palladium is big on the story, with the rules being only a tool to facilitate the story. If they had to go back and rewrite and rerelease every book they had, the outcry from longtime fans (who have everything to date) would be thunderous. For proof just browse over to the Robotech forums, and ask folks about new Robotech continum and rules versus old robotech continuim and rules. While I agree I would prefer to see a core system book (like a bevvy of other systems out there), the older OCCs would either have to convert without work, or you'd have to redo all of the occ's to date. The logistics of this are insane.

Or they can continue with the hodge system they have, let fans fix it to their own liking, and not alienate a large portion of their customer base by negating a bunch of perfectly useable old books. I so see option 2 being used

Oh and as a side note: Traveller recently released with its old rules intact, with little to no change - because people preferred it. And we won't go into the D&D 4E vs previous version arguements. White Wolf is about the only company I can think of where the old rules changed and it was consistantly seen as a good thing, and even then I know folks who use the old one because they liked the old stories better and felt no need to convert.

[Captain Shiva]

I don't believe it would require a rewrite of the entire rule system, but it would require someone to go through the entire list of skills, and determine which are more intellectually based, and which are based more on physical dexterity. You could even make a case for some skills being affected by both. This could be a Rifter article, perhaps. And I can almost guarantee that five minutes after that issue is published, there will a forum topic arguing about it.