Ways to make Rifts China viable without China 3?

[Seneca]

Has anyone attempted to break down the NPC's from the China 1 so that you could make a viable OCC out of the class of Chi Mage, Taoist Immortal, or Mystic Martial Artist?

[The Galactus Kid]

Has anyone attempted to break down the NPC's from the China 1 so that you could make a viable OCC out of the class of Chi Mage, Taoist Immortal, or Mystic Martial Artist?

No, but I still have faith that China 3 will eventually be released in some form or another.

[Jefffar]

Yeah, I find China 1 & 2 quite usable.

[csbioborg]

buy mystic china and do some easy conversions NSS main book is probaly a good idea as well

[Seneca]

buy mystic china and do some easy conversions NSS main book is probably a good idea as well

While this is true to an extent, it appears that the Mystic Martial artist for instance is a strange combination of the mystic OCC with the ability to take multiple martial arts style powers. See Xian Ya on pg. 19 of China 1 and Wu Je Nao on pg 14.

And yes, the books are playable with conversions from Mystic China of the Wu Shi and other PCC's. But the Chi Mage of China 1 has access to invocations, as seen in multiple Yama King's entries?

[Nekira Sudacne]

buy mystic china and do some easy conversions NSS main book is probably a good idea as well

While this is true to an extent, it appears that the Mystic Martial artist for instance is a strange combination of the mystic OCC with the ability to take multiple martial arts style powers. See Xian Ya on pg. 19 of China 1 and Wu Je Nao on pg 14.

And yes, the books are playable with conversions from Mystic China of the Wu Shi and other PCC's. But the Chi Mage of China 1 has access to invocations, as seen in multiple Yama King's entries?

No, The Yama Kings have invocational magic because they are Gods, not because they have the Chi Magic OCC.

[Balabanto]

As much as I love the lore on China, I don't understand why they wrote the rules for those sourcebooks the way they did. They could have integrated everything with the rules and not made the characters crippled outside of China. It would have even been (Gasp!) easier.

[Sureshot]

As much as I want to see A China 3 sourcebook I would rather see a book on Lazlo. Imo it's more important. After all how many campaigns are run outside of North america as compared to inside of it.

[runebeo]

I agree a Lazlo book is the book I really want most. China 3 has been removed from the coming soon section of Palladium Books site, while the BTS source books are 5 years late and still listed. If people want to add more to Rifts China what about using Mystic China to fill the gaps? Great book with cool stuff mainly untouched by the China books.

[Balabanto]

That's what I do currently. It's still stopgappy, and all the China stuff gives me fits.

But yes, a Lazlo book is the book I want most out of the books that haven't been published, assuming I have to take a SOURCEBOOK!

The number one book, more than any other book, that players want, beyond any other single text, is this:

A full color, professionally drawn collection of maps of Rifts Earth, continent by continent, with all the important areas mapped out, and all major ley lines marked. I would pay a hundred dollars for it. Even now, when unemployed, that is the thing that I desire most, and that most other players probably do too.

The third book is more on Europe outside of Germany. France, Spain, Italy, the Balkans. I'll take "Rifts Euro" even if I only get 32 pages on each of them, really. Russia has been treated better than Western Europe. That's sad.

Africa II. Another great choice. Everything south of Pharaoh Rama_Set's Empire is pretty much untouched.

I would love to see some Middle East Sourcebooks, but quite frankly, if I were Kevin, I'd write them, and then ask them to be published in his will, so that all the blame rests on him when he dies, given the Palladium policy.

Japan II. Also an awesome choice.

[The Galactus Kid]

That's what I do currently. It's still stopgappy, and all the China stuff gives me fits.

But yes, a Lazlo book is the book I want most out of the books that haven't been published, assuming I have to take a SOURCEBOOK!

The number one book, more than any other book, that players want, beyond any other single text, is this:

A full color, professionally drawn collection of maps of Rifts Earth, continent by continent, with all the important areas mapped out, and all major ley lines marked. I would pay a hundred dollars for it. Even now, when unemployed, that is the thing that I desire most, and that most other players probably do too.

The third book is more on Europe outside of Germany. France, Spain, Italy, the Balkans. I'll take "Rifts Euro" even if I only get 32 pages on each of them, really. Russia has been treated better than Western Europe. That's sad.

Africa II. Another great choice. Everything south of Pharaoh Rama_Set's Empire is pretty much untouched.

I would love to see some Middle East Sourcebooks, but quite frankly, if I were Kevin, I'd write them, and then ask them to be published in his will, so that all the blame rests on him when he dies, given the Palladium policy.

Japan II. Also an awesome choice.

Working on Europe.

[The Galactus Kid]

As much as I love the lore on China, I don't understand why they wrote the rules for those sourcebooks the way they did. They could have integrated everything with the rules and not made the characters crippled outside of China. It would have even been (Gasp!) easier.

I think they work pretty well just removing the goofy outside of china rules. Honestly, given the both nature of the powers and the thematic connections, I have absolutely no idea why they felt they needed to bizarrely hobble them abroad.

Agreed. just remove the penalty. Thats what we did in our game.

[runebeo]

That's what I do currently. It's still stopgappy, and all the China stuff gives me fits.

But yes, a Lazlo book is the book I want most out of the books that haven't been published, assuming I have to take a SOURCEBOOK!

The number one book, more than any other book, that players want, beyond any other single text, is this:

A full color, professionally drawn collection of maps of Rifts Earth, continent by continent, with all the important areas mapped out, and all major ley lines marked. I would pay a hundred dollars for it. Even now, when unemployed, that is the thing that I desire most, and that most other players probably do too.

The third book is more on Europe outside of Germany. France, Spain, Italy, the Balkans. I'll take "Rifts Euro" even if I only get 32 pages on each of them, really. Russia has been treated better than Western Europe. That's sad.

Africa II. Another great choice. Everything south of Pharaoh Rama_Set's Empire is pretty much untouched.

I would love to see some Middle East Sourcebooks, but quite frankly, if I were Kevin, I'd write them, and then ask them to be published in his will, so that all the blame rests on him when he dies, given the Palladium policy.

Japan II. Also an awesome choice.

I too would love an Rifts Atlas, but first more of the world would need to filled in to maximize its full potential or they could put one on now and update it every decade or so. I really like to see Kevin notes on the rest of the world, sure he got some crazy ideas.

[The Galactus Kid]

That's what I do currently. It's still stopgappy, and all the China stuff gives me fits.

But yes, a Lazlo book is the book I want most out of the books that haven't been published, assuming I have to take a SOURCEBOOK!

The number one book, more than any other book, that players want, beyond any other single text, is this:

A full color, professionally drawn collection of maps of Rifts Earth, continent by continent, with all the important areas mapped out, and all major ley lines marked. I would pay a hundred dollars for it. Even now, when unemployed, that is the thing that I desire most, and that most other players probably do too.

The third book is more on Europe outside of Germany. France, Spain, Italy, the Balkans. I'll take "Rifts Euro" even if I only get 32 pages on each of them, really. Russia has been treated better than Western Europe. That's sad.

Africa II. Another great choice. Everything south of Pharaoh Rama_Set's Empire is pretty much untouched.

I would love to see some Middle East Sourcebooks, but quite frankly, if I were Kevin, I'd write them, and then ask them to be published in his will, so that all the blame rests on him when he dies, given the Palladium policy.

Japan II. Also an awesome choice.

I too would love an Rifts Atlas, but first more of the world would need to filled in to maximize its full potential or they could put one on now and update it every decade or so. I really like to see Kevin notes on the rest of the world, sure he got some crazy ideas.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=101752

I like what's going on here. I think a RIFTS Atlas would be a really nice online offering that could eventually become a book on its own. Even having something on the map but not having been mentioned yet is a great way to get people anticipating what is coming in the future.

[Balabanto]

That's exactly it. That's why the Forgotten Realms had so many loremonkeys. The map was it's own advertising. And may I say that you're the man for working on Europe, GK!

[Nekira Sudacne]

That's what I do currently. It's still stopgappy, and all the China stuff gives me fits.

But yes, a Lazlo book is the book I want most out of the books that haven't been published, assuming I have to take a SOURCEBOOK!

The number one book, more than any other book, that players want, beyond any other single text, is this:

A full color, professionally drawn collection of maps of Rifts Earth, continent by continent, with all the important areas mapped out, and all major ley lines marked. I would pay a hundred dollars for it. Even now, when unemployed, that is the thing that I desire most, and that most other players probably do too.

The third book is more on Europe outside of Germany. France, Spain, Italy, the Balkans. I'll take "Rifts Euro" even if I only get 32 pages on each of them, really. Russia has been treated better than Western Europe. That's sad.

Africa II. Another great choice. Everything south of Pharaoh Rama_Set's Empire is pretty much untouched.

I would love to see some Middle East Sourcebooks, but quite frankly, if I were Kevin, I'd write them, and then ask them to be published in his will, so that all the blame rests on him when he dies, given the Palladium policy.

Japan II. Also an awesome choice.

I have to disagree. Such a product would completely destroy the setting in my mind. it's a post-apoaclyptic world. the LAST THING you should have is a map of where everything is that is reliable, because by the time you can get that...it's not really a post-apoaclyptic setting anymore.

Remember, OCC's like Juicers and Borgs were ment to essentially have been people who signed on for a military stint with a small kingdom--The world should be full of small "kingdoms" of around 5000-50000 people with only the largest having more than that. and mapping all those out more than regionally is all but impossible without communication networks that do not presently exsist.

I don't want a map because I want to be able to plop down kingdoms and empires anywhere I want--already North America is pretty much useless except for a few conrers to do your own thing because it's already got so many books. The other contients are the best places left.


New books that detail individual areas...Like Japan and Africa II...those I want. but not a map full 'o crap. That leaves nothing left to the imagination.

[taalismn]

Gotta agree, China 3 over Lazlo...in part because I want Lazlo to remain up to the individual GM...and also because finishing and releasing China 3 would be a great tribute piece...

[dark brandon]

New books that detail individual areas...Like Japan and Africa II...those I want. but not a map full 'o crap. That leaves nothing left to the imagination.

What about a map that only plots cities and nations that currently exist in the rifts world?

P.S. I think an online "google earth: Rifts" would be awesome.

[csbioborg]

I guess if I was part of a Lazlo group I could see the appeal of being able to create your own lazlo but since that isn't the case I'd prefer to have a lazlo book so the home of the enemy can be explored

Although China 3 would be great especailly if it spent some space on China's neighbors outside of the veil in IndoChina and Korea

[taalismn]

I guess if I was part of a Lazlo group I could see the appeal of being able to create your own lazlo but since that isn't the case I'd prefer to have a lazlo book so the home of the enemy can be explored

Although China 3 would be great especailly if it spent some space on China's neighbors outside of the veil in IndoChina and Korea

Yeah...Rifts Australia hints that there's some sort of high tech presence around what was Hong Kong, suggesting that something survived the rising of the seas there and is (still)now producing high-tech knockoffs...

[csbioborg]

I guess if I was part of a Lazlo group I could see the appeal of being able to create your own lazlo but since that isn't the case I'd prefer to have a lazlo book so the home of the enemy can be explored

Although China 3 would be great especailly if it spent some space on China's neighbors outside of the veil in IndoChina and Korea

Yeah...Rifts Australia hints that there's some sort of high tech presence around what was Hong Kong, suggesting that something survived the rising of the seas there and is (still)now producing high-tech knockoffs...

and rifts japan mentions a small city besieged by demons led by a chiang ku who is creating a army of t men to fight off the demons that populate the rest of korea minus small communites of humans ekking a living

[Balabanto]

New books that detail individual areas...Like Japan and Africa II...those I want. but not a map full 'o crap. That leaves nothing left to the imagination.

What about a map that only plots cities and nations that currently exist in the rifts world?

P.S. I think an online "google earth: Rifts" would be awesome.

Nekira, I feel the need to respond to this. Many game worlds pretty much are built so that you must use everything. Rifts really isn't like this. If you don't want to use something or say "This isn't on the map," make your players suck it up.

The reason why I say this is profit motive. You and I play the game. We have different ways of playing and running the game. HOWEVER...

There are a large number of people who buy the Rifts books who have never played Rifts AT ALL, just because the world is interesting and people like to read stuff about it. Loremonkeys are a viable part of the RPG market, and I guarantee you that they are a significant part of the customer base of Rifts. As such, that's a book that every single loremonkey, as well as most people, would buy.

I would pay for it based on travel times alone, and knowing where all the major thoroughfares are.

[Tensu]

I think this veered(sp) way of topic but Rifts china is more then viable without China 3 if you can't figure a way to run a china campaign without it I'm sorry to say but in my opinion you lack the necessary skills to be a good GM and based on your groups and your own age range that may or may not be a bad thing. The only thing I can see making a china campaign difficult is if you have some one who wants to be almost any Geofront soldier with a few exceptions and you don't have the right books with the CS equivalent OCC. The only thing you should ever need to run a game is a good book/DVD/VHS(does anybody still sell these?) and a general "game system" guide. Everything else is just filler for the less imaginative and those who just don't have the time to make things up for a long campaign.

Now getting into what this topic seemed to turn into... I would like to see China 3 with some more OCCs and some more info on what the heck is this sword graveyard. A rifts "Atlas" or honest to god "World Book" but is listed like the rift's adventure guide and such none of this Rifts cannon junk that load needs to be stuck in "concept books" or novels I'm running a campaign and think that Tolkeen and the CS should both come to a stand still I don't need players who have read the books telling me it isn't rifts cannon I can't do that. Place rifts on a similar level as palladium. I have never seen a book saying how the western empire should dominate the middle kingdom or the monster hoards from the old kingdom after a drawn out war.

[Seneca]

I think this veered(sp) way of topic but Rifts china is more then viable without China 3 if you can't figure a way to run a china campaign without it I'm sorry to say but in my opinion you lack the necessary skills to be a good GM and based on your groups and your own age range that may or may not be a bad thing. The only thing I can see making a china campaign difficult is if you have some one who wants to be almost any Geofront soldier with a few exceptions and you don't have the right books with the CS equivalent OCC. The only thing you should ever need to run a game is a good book/DVD/VHS(does anybody still sell these?) and a general "game system" guide. Everything else is just filler for the less imaginative and those who just don't have the time to make things up for a long campaign.

Opinion noted. As I currently run a campaign based in Korea I humbly disagree.

While I could easily toss ley line walkers or Mystic China chi mages at my PC's, I was hoping someone had been or would be interested in breaking down the NPC's classes in China 1 so an enterprising GM could make, say, a Mystic Martial Artist OCC. Outside of the standard martial artists already given in the China books, PC's are rather limited as written.

I was thinking that the Mystic Martial Artist is really just a Mystic OCC which can trade in Psionic or magic powers to take Mystic Martial Arts abilities. Anyone care to comment on this?

Side note: I would buy a Rifts Atlas too. After all, reliable maps help greatly in setting up encounters for PC's.

[csbioborg]

I think this veered(sp) way of topic but Rifts china is more then viable without China 3 if you can't figure a way to run a china campaign without it I'm sorry to say but in my opinion you lack the necessary skills to be a good GM and based on your groups and your own age range that may or may not be a bad thing. The only thing I can see making a china campaign difficult is if you have some one who wants to be almost any Geofront soldier with a few exceptions and you don't have the right books with the CS equivalent OCC. The only thing you should ever need to run a game is a good book/DVD/VHS(does anybody still sell these?) and a general "game system" guide. Everything else is just filler for the less imaginative and those who just don't have the time to make things up for a long campaign.

Opinion noted. As I currently run a campaign based in Korea I humbly disagree.

While I could easily toss ley line walkers or Mystic China chi mages at my PC's, I was hoping someone had been or would be interested in breaking down the NPC's classes in China 1 so an enterprising GM could make, say, a Mystic Martial Artist OCC. Outside of the standard martial artists already given in the China books, PC's are rather limited as written.

I was thinking that the Mystic Martial Artist is really just a Mystic OCC which can trade in Psionic or magic powers to take Mystic Martial Arts abilities. Anyone care to comment on this?

Side note: I would buy a Rifts Atlas too. After all, reliable maps help greatly in setting up encounters for PC's.

I strongly disagree with that. There is nothing saying you have to be a mystic to learn martial arts powers. There is even a dragon that can teach any occ martial arts powers in rifts japan. I'd say it is simlar to magic in that anybody can learn it. Although the process is much different. HOw do you run your campign in Korea. I occasionally play there to. I'd be intersted in your take it. I base mine off the rifts japan notion of a demon occupied waste land sparsly populated by humans with a city protected by t men created by the chiang ku that leads it

[Tensu]

I think this veered(sp) way of topic but Rifts china is more then viable without China 3 if you can't figure a way to run a china campaign without it I'm sorry to say but in my opinion you lack the necessary skills to be a good GM and based on your groups and your own age range that may or may not be a bad thing. The only thing I can see making a china campaign difficult is if you have some one who wants to be almost any Geofront soldier with a few exceptions and you don't have the right books with the CS equivalent OCC. The only thing you should ever need to run a game is a good book/DVD/VHS(does anybody still sell these?) and a general "game system" guide. Everything else is just filler for the less imaginative and those who just don't have the time to make things up for a long campaign.

Opinion noted. As I currently run a campaign based in Korea I humbly disagree.

While I could easily toss ley line walkers or Mystic China chi mages at my PC's, I was hoping someone had been or would be interested in breaking down the NPC's classes in China 1 so an enterprising GM could make, say, a Mystic Martial Artist OCC. Outside of the standard martial artists already given in the China books, PC's are rather limited as written.

I was thinking that the Mystic Martial Artist is really just a Mystic OCC which can trade in Psionic or magic powers to take Mystic Martial Arts abilities. Anyone care to comment on this?

Side note: I would buy a Rifts Atlas too. After all, reliable maps help greatly in setting up encounters for PC's.

Yes but YOUR topic is "Ways to make Rifts China viable without China 3?" suggesting it is not viable, it cannot work, with out China 3 but it is viable it can work. It may not be as enjoyable with out more clear cut information on what these NPC classes talked about in China 1 are but then again maybe these classes are suppose to be like the alchemist in palladium no clear cut answer on what they are and can do. If you can not use your imagination to fill in the blanks sometimes then how do you run a campaign? So you know I also GM a campaign in China and have had no problems playing it with out those NPC classes. I have run a Phase world campaign in the UWW with out the need for the book that was set to come out for the United Worlds of Warlock. It would be nice to have those books but if you can not make something up you lack the skills to be a good GM in my opinion I'm sorry. This doesn't mean you can't be a GM but your games that follow rules and only have classes, races, weapons, ect... that are listed in a book would be very boring to me.

[Seneca]

Yes but YOUR topic is "Ways to make Rifts China viable without China 3?" suggesting it is not viable, it cannot work, with out China 3 but it is viable it can work. It may not be as enjoyable with out more clear cut information on what these NPC classes talked about in China 1 are but then again maybe these classes are suppose to be like the alchemist in palladium no clear cut answer on what they are and can do. If you can not use your imagination to fill in the blanks sometimes then how do you run a campaign? So you know I also GM a campaign in China and have had no problems playing it with out those NPC classes. I have run a Phase world campaign in the UWW with out the need for the book that was set to come out for the United Worlds of Warlock. It would be nice to have those books but if you can not make something up you lack the skills to be a good GM in my opinion I'm sorry. This doesn't mean you can't be a GM but your games that follow rules and only have classes, races, weapons, ect... that are listed in a book would be very boring to me.

Thank you Tensu, your input is appreciated. Apparently I was unclear in my thread title.

Is China playable as is? Yes. I use all the demons, goblins, spirits, OCC's and RCC's from China 1 and 2 in my game. And I have thrown in a lot of information from Mystic China on the various Immortals. Adding to the game setting. But I dislike when we are given hints at information like NPC's with unavailable classes for PC's, or eastern dragons which are supposed to be entirely different than the currently written dragons. Just my opinion.

I strongly disagree with that. There is nothing saying you have to be a mystic to learn martial arts powers. There is even a dragon that can teach any occ martial arts powers in rifts japan. I'd say it is simlar to magic in that anybody can learn it. Although the process is much different.

HOw do you run your campign in Korea. I occasionally play there to. I'd be intersted in your take it. I base mine off the rifts japan notion of a demon occupied waste land sparsly populated by humans with a city protected by t men created by the chiang ku that leads it.

Again I may have been unclear. The Mystic Martial Artist OCC as shown on the NPC Xian Ya (China 1 pg. 19) as a 5th Level Mystic Martial Artist and 8th level Toaist Initiate shows her having: Hand to Hand Martial Arts, numerous magic spells, all healing psionics and the Mystic Martial art of Mien-Ch'uan. While the Abbot of the Shaolin Temple/dragon is a 22nd level Mystic Martial Artist has 10 different Mystic Martial Arts at various levels. So perhaps the Mysyic Martial Artist OCC was going to be based on the Mystic OCC in some way, as the current martial artists OCC's in China 2 are limited to only one or two Martial Arts powers....

In my campaign for all intents and purposes I split Korea once again. This time in four.

Seoul and the surrounding 50 miles is the home of the Chiang-ku monastery and numerous tiny villages. Incredibly low tech, the kingdom is middle ages with almost no technology except that which travelers bring with them. Instead of trying to make another uber-tattoo OCC, I used the Monk OCC from Palladium fantasy and simply added tattoos from Atlantis. Keeping the demon death blow and staff fighting. The kingdom has recently called for aid from the New Empire in Japan to help deal with recent excursions from the Infernals in the north.

The Republic Of Japan routed a Horune Pirate outpost on the East coast of Korea. Freeing an enslaved fishing village and building a small forward base on the only natural bay on the East coast of Korea. Tales of these heroic hi-tech invaders from across the sea has brought Geo-front operatives and spies. So far they have clashed with a Lo-dax dragon turtle, sea serpents and numerous Horune counter attacks.

The Horune and other pirates and bandits operate off the scattered small island chains of the west coast. Lead by a Serpent of the Wind Dragon with ties to the Japanese Underworld.

In the shadow of the Northern mountains, a Chinese Immortal along the lines of Fu-Manchu has set up his own fiefdom. His long term plans are to annex the rest of Korea before he turns his sights on retaking China, starting with the 2nd Yama Kingdom. I molded this guy in the lines of Doctor Doom/Manderan without the high tech. Evil but honorable, a 20th level Chinese Alchemist Immortal Mystic/ Open handed Martial Artist with legions of Goblins, Ogres, ghosts, Oni, and Infernals. Not to mention his lieutenants/generals. Including a Secondary Vampire over a few centuries old, a "controled" Shih-Ju Shen adviser, an Undead Immortal samurai general, and a Gigantses giant who he uses as a body guard/pet. He still hates the Japanese from their actions over the centuries against China and is rabidly anti-technology. In many ways he is set up like the Anti-CS. The Korean & Japanese humans, and d-bees unknown to ancient China, are seen as inferior, used as slaves, and food for his monstrous minions.

Finally, a Gene-splicer is hiding in the mountains of the North East under Heaven's Lake. Retreating there after his ship was heavily damaged by the New Navy. He is the source of mutoids in Korea and is interested in the secrets of Chinese alchemy and the biology of the various Infernals.

He is directly responsible for re-making a Korean bandit in the image of Chi-You, a Chinese War god/ Ancient Korean King. A giant of a man, with the head of a bull, and the super ability of Alter Self: Metal. He is credited as being a hero, but is really a miscreant bandit who rules a tiny village at the base of the mountain. He acts as the Gene-splicer's enforcer and main source of subjects.