The army is MIA? What about apocalyptic soldiers?

[Kelorin]

If the army is MIA, then who are the apocalyptic soldiers supposed to represent? Deserters? Military personnel separated from their units? Rogues? And also, if the military is supposed to be absent, why the stats for the M1A1 Abrams?

[Kelorin]

That makes sense. In most zombie books and movies, there seems to be an unwritten rule that the military is never allowed to a part of the zombie solution. In most cases the military is either entirely absent, or alternatively portrayed as incompetent, and worse: the original cause of the zombie outbreak in the first place, in which case if the military shows up, it is usually to neutralize witnesses / survivors. aka kill the PC's.

After the Rifter #40 article, and prior to the actual release of Dead Reign, I'd been thinking of the idea of a couple of different isolated military commands that would be working independently.

The Navy would initially try putting survivors on cruise ships, and heading to deep water (and later working up plans for a massive Neutron weapon strike of key cities to see if that would have an impact on the zombie problem, while minimizing their own casualties).

After the initial Wright-Patterson airlift, the Air Force would have pulled as many of their fighters and bombers to isolated and secured airfields in Alaska, Nevada and California as possible, while launching increasingly limited strikes as their aircraft fuel reserves started running low. Every now and then they would show up to 'Disrupt zombie migration patterns' by blowing up a bridge right in the path of the PC's escape route.

The Army would be split among a number of regional commands, some would be led by Generals like Commander Adama from the new Battlestar Galactica - try to find, assist and rescue survivors whenever and wherever possible (like the current version of the Apocalyptic Soldiers); others would be led by Generals like Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica - fighting the enemy using whatever means necessary is the top priority and civilian assets and resources are to be seized and re-allocated to the war effort. This means persuading or eliminating any civilians that get in way of the war effort as 'potential enemy combatants' and 'traitors assisting and abetting the enemy (aka not handing over all their fuel, food and weapons'). Not to mention executing 'looters' on the spot - anyone doing what PC's are likely to be doing regularly, foraging for equipment, supplies and food.

The fun would be that everytime the PC's encountered large numbers of military personnel, they'd never know in advance if the military would be there to help them, or to kill them and take their stuff.

[DtMK]

Sounds good to me too! Another possibility is, what if the military were also given whatever caused the zombie outbreak as well? They could just as easily be fighting with themselves as well.

[ZINO]

WOW that is good free idea!!!!thank you

[wolfsgrin]

Even with all these secret bases and places to go regroup, all it takes is one infected, then two, then three... could be a fun game where a fall back posistion becomes infected no matter who started it. Poetic justice if the military/gov was behind it and they were the first to bite it.

[Noon]

In the original version the US Military was far from absent, but they were not exactly the good guys either.

Your probabably lucky he didn't turn them into dinosaurs or something. I could imagine Kevin saying "I really, really loved the manuscript and I was so excited about it! So excited I started thinking about it more and it occured to me to make a few small changes...dinosaurs!"

[Nxla666]

If the army is MIA, then who are the apocalyptic soldiers supposed to represent? Deserters? Military personnel separated from their units? Rogues? And also, if the military is supposed to be absent, why the stats for the M1A1 Abrams?

To the first four questions I'd say yes.

To the last one I'd have to say that its because tanks just dont disappear because the crew is dead.

[Nightbreed]

Noon wrote:
Citizen Lazlo wrote:
In the original version the US Military was far from absent, but they were not exactly the good guys either.
Your probabably lucky he didn't turn them into dinosaurs or something. I could imagine Kevin saying "I really, really loved the manuscript and I was so excited about it! So excited I started thinking about it more and it occured to me to make a few small changes...dinosaurs!"




that was pretty good.

Naw no dinossaurs they are MDC this is a SDC world

Who says dinosaurs are just for MDC worlds? Nothing worse than a zombie T-rex chasing you wanting to do the same thing in life. EAT you!!!!

[Nightbreed]

Noon wrote:
Citizen Lazlo wrote:
In the original version the US Military was far from absent, but they were not exactly the good guys either.
Your probabably lucky he didn't turn them into dinosaurs or something. I could imagine Kevin saying "I really, really loved the manuscript and I was so excited about it! So excited I started thinking about it more and it occured to me to make a few small changes...dinosaurs!"




that was pretty good.

Naw no dinossaurs they are MDC this is a SDC world

Who says dinosaurs are just for MDC worlds? Nothing worse than a zombie T-rex chasing you wanting to do the same thing in life. EAT you!!!!

While I don't think they should be MDC I have yet to see them as SDC since TMNT. The new robotech has them as MDC I know RIFTS are MDC.
the only thing I can think that is worse would be zombie clowns

Hmmm Zombie thinker (insane) clowns......

[Nightbreed]

Noon wrote:
Citizen Lazlo wrote:
In the original version the US Military was far from absent, but they were not exactly the good guys either.
Your probabably lucky he didn't turn them into dinosaurs or something. I could imagine Kevin saying "I really, really loved the manuscript and I was so excited about it! So excited I started thinking about it more and it occured to me to make a few small changes...dinosaurs!"




that was pretty good.

Naw no dinossaurs they are MDC this is a SDC world

Who says dinosaurs are just for MDC worlds? Nothing worse than a zombie T-rex chasing you wanting to do the same thing in life. EAT you!!!!

While I don't think they should be MDC I have yet to see them as SDC since TMNT. The new robotech has them as MDC I know RIFTS are MDC.
the only thing I can think that is worse would be zombie clowns

Oh no, now things are getting worse.

It's not as bad as you think, at least we have an answer on how all those clowns can fit in that small car.

[Kelorin]

My understanding from the reading is this:

The published setting differs from the original concept, and one of those ways that it differs is that it uses the logic that during the mass outbreak most of the patients were overflowing in the hospitals and such and thus were being warehousesd in schools, and other civil buildings like National Guard Compounds, and military bases. Truthfully in a time of national crisis I can see this. There ARE military bases and such that would not do this, but there are plenty that would.

And that is where I wanted to differ from the "established" zombie Genre. In the original manuscript there was no build up or slow burn to warn anyone, it all happened within a few minutes.

OK don't have the book so hope this isn't already covered.
70 percent of the world is zombie leaving 30percent survivors after what ever cuased this thing to happen in minutes correct further reducing survivors to mere 12-20% after five months or is it roughly 30-40% turned in minutes and then infected the rest over the next five months(starting time of DR) to start with 70%zombies to 30% at the start of the game?

the reason why I ask is because it would affect what could have happend during the first 5 months of organized resistance that fell apart which would mean in the middle of nowhere a pc can stumble across a mash unit or other field base of governments also if a large size of the population and government had time to move around a bit there can easily be a few small towns that where cleansed and moved into hell I grew up in one such a town mountains on either side one with a lake and a powerplant/dam easy to control movement and secure.

more time for people to stock up and secure locations and also better chance of rumors and stories to travel around. And refuge fleeing from worst countries ie here in the us getting hit from the south and (I wonder howmany Zombies would try to cross the border on old instinct) the north for the most part not sure how many would want to.

HB

Strictly speaking, the 70% Zombies/30% survivors ratio is after five months have passed. That wasn't the initial numbers, but the current state of the world, I was just using the ratio for the sake of my example since those are the only numbers I rememeber, the exact percentages over that five month timeline have not been published.

In general the Zombies can be a fairly minimal threat as they are monstly clustered in high population areas (and even more so than you would expect due to the way they were treating the sick). The Zombies in Dead Reign don't shamble around randomly, or move accross the countryside in huge mobs looking for prey. When there isn't anything living around they go into a suspended animation type state and then are awakened when something living comes by or noise is made. They then emit a moan which lets any other zombies in the area know that there is something around, and this slowly assembles a horde as those zombies moan, extending the audible radius, which leads to more moaning, etc... until every zombie in the area is after you.

In Dead Reign is theoretically possible to hold out in some survivor's community that is more or less self sufficient and never see a zombie. This is why I believe the numbers are relatively stable (population to zombie) there really isn't a war going on, or a threat of rampaging hordes (currently). It's also pointed out that Zombies have trouble with stairwells and doors and such, and even with thinkers, the higher you are in a building the safer you are. So in metropolitan areas you might very well have survivor communities up on rooftoops/top floors of skyscraypers, growing crops, and sending teams of people down "Streetside" to do the risky job of scavenging or whatever.



Player Characters however are heroes, so they are the guys who are going to be rescueing people, scavenging supplies, or trying to solve the mystery of the outbreak. Sitting around farming and such would make for a boring RPG (sorry to all those Harvest Moon fans out there). Thus they are going to be going into zombie-infested areas. The trick being though that zombies like to go dormant in messed up places, effectively "hiding" and thus you walk past the wrong place, miss a detect concealment/perception roll, and next thing you know your grappled and have this
thing moaning out a dinner bell.

A MASH camp or something is a possibility, though as presented it wouldn't be from the active military. It would have been something that was deployed and then cut off, but had enough resources to continue. An organized remnant like is more or less what bands of Apocolypse Soldiers are, and might very well be the heart of a survivor community (ie survivors build up around it).

The actual military however is MIA. Everything that is apparenrly out there is fragmented and disorganized, with no clear command structure. If there is an organized military response underway (say from NORAD or something) it's unknown, and has not been communicating with the forces left out in the field. It's kept deliberatly open and mysterious, GMs can do with it what they will.

If I had to make a guess about how things were going to play out for a sourcebook (moving the time line on) I'd imagine that the Death Cultists would finally get into their groove and start moving the zombies out in the stereotypical waves to attack the survivor communities (which currently does not happen) actively.

This would result in the remnants of the military revealing themselves to stop them.

See, if I was writing it, I'd figure the military would cut it's communications like this and play dead. Nobody knows exactly who or what was behind the zombie outbreak, there is no central enemy. So the remnants of the organized military that survived, watching what happened to the first responders, could very well be waiting for whatever the central threat was to show itself so they can attempt to deal with the whole problem at once.

Military remnants coming out at the same time the Death Cultists make their mass move would make sense. Though whether the Death Cultists were the central threat, or simply oppertunists is up in the air.

Such are my thoughts.

>>>----Therumancer--->

A couple of thoughts about where the sick were taken during the wave (current version) - Where are you going to take large numbers of infected / sick people? Hospitals first, then where? Schools, colleges universities, large public buildings like stadiums make sense. Military VA hospitals and barracks, & navy hospital ships that are designed to accomodate large quantities of people makes sense too. But Police stations? Why? Police stations might be where people initially go for help, but the sick wouldn't be kept there. Police stations might have a small clinic, but aren't equipped for long term patient care. Ditto for airfields, tank armories, helicopter bases, naval ports etc. My understanding is that all these types of places will be able to assist for immediate or life threatening injuries, but for long term care, the military sends patients to a VA hospital, which means that the above locations are not in immediate peril at the onset of the outbreak. Can they eventually be swarmed and wiped out? Sure they can.

Another thing about military bases; since they are 'military targets', many military bases are deliberately built a 'safe distance' away from major population centers and cities. The theory being that if they are bombed, the cities and civilians are spared. By extension, this would also serve to also isolate the bases from WMD or terrorist attacks directed at cities or major outbreaks of disease (or the dead rising up) as well. It might mean that a lot of off-duty servicemen are going to have trouble getting to their bases after the outbreak hits full swing (and now these military men and women are eligible to become PC's). Even CDC in Atlanta, GA (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1600 Clifton Rd, Atlanta, GA 30333, U.S.A.) appears to partially isolated from the city proper (google maps), and I don't think they treat patients at the main CDC facility (they just do research - correct me, if I'm wrong on this one).

In comparison, even though police stations wouldn't be immediately wiped out at the onset, they are still located right in the middle of the hot zone, and many police officers, S.W.A.T. personnel and other first responders are going to get killed responding to the early stages of the crisis. PC police officers, fire fighters, and EMT's should rare indeed.

Furthermore, no one has adequately explained to me how a zombie can threaten the crew of a sealed Abrams, Apache or nuclear sub.

[Sakieh]

Furthermore, no one has adequately explained to me how a zombie can threaten the crew of a sealed Abrams, Apache or nuclear sub.

Mock Zombie? You know...the ones that do not think they are zombies?
And, an Abrams crew or Apache crew has to get out eventually for food and such..

[Nightbreed]

Furthermore, no one has adequately explained to me how a zombie can threaten the crew of a sealed Abrams, Apache or nuclear sub.

Mock Zombie? You know...the ones that do not think they are zombies?
And, an Abrams crew or Apache crew has to get out eventually for food and such..

Ah, nothing like the sardines coming out of the can. Makes things soooo easier.

[RockJock]

Using things like a university as a triage point is used quite a bit in RL. It doesn't even need to be a dorm, or medical school. Places like Vet schools, or even science labs tend have things needed by medical support groups. Purified water, microscopes, growth chambers, refrigeration, plus things like food stores. Most science labs also have things like water purification equipment, autoclaves, and somethings more exotic things like equipment to bottle oxygen, or hydrogen.

Colleges, especially a big engineering, or science school, can have a lot more resources then many people would expect. As an example, a school near, and dear to my heart is located in a relatively small city, fairly isolated from the rest of the state, but near transportation routes. It has it's own water, power, digitized library, food stores, fire fighting school, national first responder team, paramedics, airport (really 2), machine shops, military structure, dairy herd, and hell, at least 2 small reactors, plus tons of additional features.

[GrampaAllen]

Abrams tank gets 1.6 Gallons to the mile not mpg take out the support structure and the don't operate for long 5 months in and you wouldn't find many cruising around but alot sitting

[Augur]

The primary tool of the U.S. Navy in any situation, horrific or otherwise, is the nuclear aircraft carrier.

What other tool has:
Virtually unlimited power that will run for 20 years between refuellings
Can generate 400,000 gallons of fresh water daily
All the equipment, manpower and knowledge to build anything ever devised by human mind?
5,000+ people dedicated and ready to do whatever it takes to get a job done

The only thing a Nimitz Class Carrier needs? FOOD for the crew.

The Navy being the way it is, I can only imagine 1 of 2 possible situations:
Everyone was innoculated and zombified
No one was innoculated or zombified (on a command-to-command basis)

Anyone up to GMing a Dead Reign RPG?

[Kelorin]

The primary tool of the U.S. Navy in any situation, horrific or otherwise, is the nuclear aircraft carrier.

What other tool has:
Virtually unlimited power that will run for 20 years between refuellings
Can generate 400,000 gallons of fresh water daily
All the equipment, manpower and knowledge to build anything ever devised by human mind?
5,000+ people dedicated and ready to do whatever it takes to get a job done

The only thing a Nimitz Class Carrier needs? FOOD for the crew.

The Navy being the way it is, I can only imagine 1 of 2 possible situations:
Everyone was innoculated and zombified
No one was innoculated or zombified (on a command-to-command basis)

Anyone up to GMing a Dead Reign RPG?

I was thinking along the same lines. When the Navy scoots to deep water, it is the big Nimitz class carriers that would leading the way. Carriers however, still have a couple of other limited capacitiy consumables other than food. Among the most are Jet Fuel, and Weapons Stores, (yes, I know carriers carry literally a shipload of ordnance, but it is still a finite amount, and won't last 20 years without re-supply); oh and of course - Toilet Paper (The primary currency of the post-apocalyptic wasteland )

One of the first things the Navy might want to do is try to bring civilian Fishing Trawlers under their protection. 3 square a day of just fish might get boring, but at least you're eating. In addition, with civilian cruise ships to protect and a Deep-Sea Research Ship, and a couple of Salvage Ships in the group, you've got the makings of a small number of heavily armed Navy ships protecting a small rag-tag fleet. And next thing you know it's Post Zombie Apocalypse meets Battlestar Galactica meets SuperCarrier.

[Tricky]

First of all, Jcook thanks for bringing a very personal story to our frivalous discussion. But, you do really have a good solid basis for a DR campaign just from your story (residents of a city or even a neighborhood that turns the local precinct into a fortress, for example)

The one thing I liked about the DR stuff from the Rifters is that with the sudden fall of civilization there would be LOTs of stuff to 'scavange' from the ruins. (if you dare to brave the hordes) This situation is pretty unique in zombie lore; only 28 Days later (that grocery they stock up at was totally infected free and totally untouched....surprisingly) and Dawn of the Dead '04 (everything happened overnight, so there might even be delivery trucks half loaded on docks somewhere) had such a quick disintegration. So the Military might not have had time to organize. Everyone suddenly found themselves alone, grabbing what they could and beating feet to a secure zone.

In the current Setting, and in most of the other zombie lore, things fell apart much slower. Stores were probably emptied first by paniced citizens, then looted by mobs. Most shopping areas are devoid of any usuable items (this reminds me of a page from 'The Walking Dead', where they find a looted store where the looters destoyed whatever they left, leaving the survivors to ponder what kinda sicko would do that). The Military would have organized, but as things got worse they would have started to see discipline issues, desertions and out and out mutiny (think the last Episode of BSG). Units might just break away from a command structure that they feel is not handling the situation, or they might just want to go and be with their families for the end of the world.

My personal take on the Apocalyptic Soldier is that this class is the Post-Apocalypse standard of the soldier who was the last man standing, and has taken what he could and is trying to make his way in a dead world. Maybe he's going home, maybe he's out for revenge, or maybe he's just wandering the land.

Btw, I think there should be a Military sourcebook, and it should have two outlooks in it, as stated above using the BSG commanders: One should be the Military doing their job as usual, the other the military as potetial threats (for instance, a humvee rolls up to your safe town and tells you that unless you surender a percentage of food and men of fighting age, they will destroy your town), imho

[tgunner91]

My personal take on the Apocalyptic Soldier is that this class is the Post-Apocalypse standard of the soldier who was the last man standing, and has taken what he could and is trying to make his way in a dead world. Maybe he's going home, maybe he's out for revenge, or maybe he's just wandering the land.

Btw, I think there should be a Military sourcebook, and it should have two outlooks in it, as stated above using the BSG commanders: One should be the Military doing their job as usual, the other the military as potetial threats (for instance, a humvee rolls up to your safe town and tells you that unless you surender a percentage of food and men of fighting age, they will destroy your town), imho

I view the Apocalyptic soldier as being something of a Twilight 2000 type of survivor. The military has totally collapsed and the survivor have heard the "Good luck, you're on your own..." message from command. These survivors are in small groups or units that are probably no larger than company or so elements. These are small, mobile, units that are fairly light and have some functional vehicles and maybe even an AFV or two (I'm thinking Humvees, 2 1/2, 5 ton, and other soft skins with maybe a few M113s/Strykers and other light armor). These units might have some cantonments (safe areas) that serve as a homebase. The unit might revolve around a small town, military base, or other similar place that offers sources of food, labor, water, shelter, spare parts, and other necessary things.

Is there a formal command structure? Who knows. There might be groups of units that follow a 'command' of some sort. Perhaps the remains of a larger unit? The national guard and the army reserve have command units (brigades and divisions) that could coordinate the soldiers in a particiular region. It would just depend on how hard the wave hit the region in question.

I could easily see a Apocalyptic Soldier campaign that revolves around a group of National Guard troops stationed in a small town (say a mech or light infantry company). The town does get hit by the wave, however the ANG and local authorities are strong enough to put down the 'dead' and establish a safe area. The ANG types would have a treasure trove of equipment but may not have the skills and resources to keep it all going. The M2 Bradleys are parked in the armory motor pool, but they are basically parked because they have been 'deadlined' because of the lack of parts or even fuel! Worse still, the ANG doesn't store serious munitions at an ANG armory! The ANGs have small arms ammo and maybe some ammo fore their more serious weapons... but not a lot! They might not even have TOWs for the Bradleys and maybe only limited stores of ammo for the 25mm! That could lead to adventures where the apocalyptic soldiers go scrounging for spare parts, equipment, food, and even ammo! These guys have organization and some equipment but they arn't invinciable by any means.

I could easily see a Jericho style campaign too where the town is cut off for a while and has to make due with the leadership and supplies that it has on hand. The ANGs could play a pivotal role in leading the town and organizing/training its militia. You could even have conflicts between communities of survivors. Or even a unit of rogue Apocalyptic Soldiers! Jericho (the TV series) had the town face off with a rogue unit of mercs. That could easily happen in Dead Reign.

Dead Reign has a rich background that gives you plenty of room to maneuver. And heck, who knows... maybe the US Gov does exist and will rear its head later in the campaign. Will your soldiers return to Uncle Sam's service when called? What if this new US gov isn't legal? What if two or more govs emerge and claim to be the 'real deal'? Who will your soldiers side with then?

Oh the possibilities!

[Tricky]

A thought I had: Borrowing from the Show Joshua, what if there was a network of PA soldiers, seemingly not connected to each other or anything else, but secretly part of group trying to reestablish order and or the gov't? With the cult angle running around, you could raise the paranioa a bit by having someone find a dead or dying soldier who seems to have something that points to a 'bigger plan': maybe he has a working radio with a guy on the other hand saying something that sounds like there's some sort of organized effort going on; maybe a dying npc tells your heroes about 'Project Eden', and gives you (of course) half of a map!

Then, you have a new player in the mix, and something to make the characters wonder "If they are so organized and prepared, were they responsible for this mess?"

[tgunner91]

A thought I had: Borrowing from the Show Joshua, what if there was a network of PA soldiers, seemingly not connected to each other or anything else, but secretly part of group trying to reestablish order and or the gov't? With the cult angle running around, you could raise the paranioa a bit by having someone find a dead or dying soldier who seems to have something that points to a 'bigger plan': maybe he has a working radio with a guy on the other hand saying something that sounds like there's some sort of organized effort going on; maybe a dying npc tells your heroes about 'Project Eden', and gives you (of course) half of a map!

Then, you have a new player in the mix, and something to make the characters wonder "If they are so organized and prepared, were they responsible for this mess?"

You should write that one up and send it off to the Rifter!

[Nightbreed]

A thought I had: Borrowing from the Show Joshua, what if there was a network of PA soldiers, seemingly not connected to each other or anything else, but secretly part of group trying to reestablish order and or the gov't? With the cult angle running around, you could raise the paranioa a bit by having someone find a dead or dying soldier who seems to have something that points to a 'bigger plan': maybe he has a working radio with a guy on the other hand saying something that sounds like there's some sort of organized effort going on; maybe a dying npc tells your heroes about 'Project Eden', and gives you (of course) half of a map!

Then, you have a new player in the mix, and something to make the characters wonder "If they are so organized and prepared, were they responsible for this mess?"

You mean the show Jeremiah? The one that had Luke Perry and Malcolm-Jamal Warner in it?

[Smlawrence8]

[quote="Kelorin"]

Another thing about military bases; since they are 'military targets', many military bases are deliberately built a 'safe distance' away from major population centers and cities. The theory being that if they are bombed, the cities and civilians are spared. By extension, this would also serve to also isolate the bases from WMD or terrorist attacks directed at cities or major outbreaks of disease (or the dead rising up) as well. It might mean that a lot of off-duty servicemen are going to have trouble getting to their bases after the outbreak hits full swing (and now these military men and women are eligible to become PC's). Even CDC in Atlanta, GA (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1600 Clifton Rd, Atlanta, GA 30333, U.S.A.) appears to partially isolated from the city proper (google maps), and I don't think they treat patients at the main CDC facility (they just do research - correct me, if I'm wrong on this one).

quote]


Ok so on this point I have to disagree. I was training in San Antonio with the Army and FT. Sam Houston is right in the center of the city. Also there were (to my knowledge) 3-5 other bases there in town. I live in Montgomery,Al and here we have Maxwell AFB and Gunter Annex. They are right in town.... So while some installations may be separated from the cities others are the very hearts of the city they are in. If you are going to use and installation then look it up and see where it is in relation to the town surrounding it.

[Nxla666]

Another thing about military bases; since they are 'military targets', many military bases are deliberately built a 'safe distance' away from major population centers and cities. The theory being that if they are bombed, the cities and civilians are spared. By extension, this would also serve to also isolate the bases from WMD or terrorist attacks directed at cities or major outbreaks of disease (or the dead rising up) as well. It might mean that a lot of off-duty servicemen are going to have trouble getting to their bases after the outbreak hits full swing (and now these military men and women are eligible to become PC's). Even CDC in Atlanta, GA (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1600 Clifton Rd, Atlanta, GA 30333, U.S.A.) appears to partially isolated from the city proper (google maps), and I don't think they treat patients at the main CDC facility (they just do research - correct me, if I'm wrong on this one).

quote]


Ok so on this point I have to disagree. I was training in San Antonio with the Army and FT. Sam Houston is right in the center of the city. Also there were (to my knowledge) 3-5 other bases there in town. I live in Montgomery,Al and here we have Maxwell AFB and Gunter Annex. They are right in town.... So while some installations may be separated from the cities others are the very hearts of the city they are in. If you are going to use and installation then look it up and see where it is in relation to the town surrounding it.

Isnt that a case of the city growing around the base instead of building a base in the city?

[Smlawrence8]

Another thing about military bases; since they are 'military targets', many military bases are deliberately built a 'safe distance' away from major population centers and cities. The theory being that if they are bombed, the cities and civilians are spared. By extension, this would also serve to also isolate the bases from WMD or terrorist attacks directed at cities or major outbreaks of disease (or the dead rising up) as well. It might mean that a lot of off-duty servicemen are going to have trouble getting to their bases after the outbreak hits full swing (and now these military men and women are eligible to become PC's). Even CDC in Atlanta, GA (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1600 Clifton Rd, Atlanta, GA 30333, U.S.A.) appears to partially isolated from the city proper (google maps), and I don't think they treat patients at the main CDC facility (they just do research - correct me, if I'm wrong on this one).

quote]


Ok so on this point I have to disagree. I was training in San Antonio with the Army and FT. Sam Houston is right in the center of the city. Also there were (to my knowledge) 3-5 other bases there in town. I live in Montgomery,Al and here we have Maxwell AFB and Gunter Annex. They are right in town.... So while some installations may be separated from the cities others are the very hearts of the city they are in. If you are going to use and installation then look it up and see where it is in relation to the town surrounding it.

Isnt that a case of the city growing around the base instead of building a base in the city?

Yeah the point being thought that some bases are in the cities...He was saying that they are usually seperated... I was just pointing out that fact that that isnt always true

[Kelorin]

Another thing about military bases; since they are 'military targets', many military bases are deliberately built a 'safe distance' away from major population centers and cities. The theory being that if they are bombed, the cities and civilians are spared. By extension, this would also serve to also isolate the bases from WMD or terrorist attacks directed at cities or major outbreaks of disease (or the dead rising up) as well. It might mean that a lot of off-duty servicemen are going to have trouble getting to their bases after the outbreak hits full swing (and now these military men and women are eligible to become PC's). Even CDC in Atlanta, GA (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1600 Clifton Rd, Atlanta, GA 30333, U.S.A.) appears to partially isolated from the city proper (google maps), and I don't think they treat patients at the main CDC facility (they just do research - correct me, if I'm wrong on this one).

quote]


Ok so on this point I have to disagree. I was training in San Antonio with the Army and FT. Sam Houston is right in the center of the city. Also there were (to my knowledge) 3-5 other bases there in town. I live in Montgomery,Al and here we have Maxwell AFB and Gunter Annex. They are right in town.... So while some installations may be separated from the cities others are the very hearts of the city they are in. If you are going to use and installation then look it up and see where it is in relation to the town surrounding it.

Isnt that a case of the city growing around the base instead of building a base in the city?

Yeah the point being thought that some bases are in the cities...He was saying that they are usually seperated... I was just pointing out that fact that that isnt always true

That's why I originally said 'many' bases are built away from cities. I knew that this wasn't always the case. Based on research (albeit limited and I'm just a civilian myself), my impression was that most bases (that I tried looking up - mostly airfields) seemed to be fair distance away from downtown population centers. I simply don't have a lot of info regarding specific army, and national guard facilities. My guess is that the with the army, it is desirable to have them close by to defend the towns they are near? But thank you for the specific info regarding San Antonio and Sam Houston.

Ideally, I'd love to get a map with major military installations and power generating stations on a single map, but I don't know how such a thing might be obtained. Also, in this day and age, (post 911) even requesting such a thing from official government sources might seem 'suspicious'.

[linhvo]

Dont get me wrong here, I served myself and i believe that of the branches of the US govt which are involved in espionge and intelligence I vbelieve the military is the one that remebers were dealing with human beings here. That said I do remeber that the pentagon has no problem ordering personnel to take untested unproven vaccines with servere penalties for refusing to do so. Noting that the FDA had serious problems with the cure it is possible that the pentagon failed to order its use.

So it is entirely possible that the reason the army is MIA is because they were all affected.

just my two cents.