Hypothetical Question: Earth-Killing meteor is on its way...

[rat_bastard]

So.. A massive Earth-Killing meteor is on its way to wipe out all life. Its not so huge that it will annihilate the Earth but certainly large enough to blanket it in a Greenhouse-enducing haze which will certainly make the planet uninhabitable for a millenea.

Question: Will any of the Uber-Powerful entites that prevent the inhabitants of Earth from reaching space do anything to prevent it? Will the killer satelites shoot it down? Will the Moon-Men who man constant vigil over the skies of Earth raise a finger to save us or would they be like, "Cool - now maybe I won't have to pull guard duty anymore." Would any of the Godlings that stick their heads through the Rifts look to the skies and think, "Well, if all the people here get killed, where will I go to get my soul-harvesting kicks?" or would they silently slink back into thier dimensional doorways to seek gainful entertainment elsewhere?

First crack goes to the orbitals, if they don't act on it then Atlantis will make sure it gets dealt with, either by manipulating an earth power or sending a battle cruiser into earth space and turning it into a fine mist.

[rat_bastard]

First crack goes to the orbitals, if they don't act on it then Atlantis will make sure it gets dealt with, either by manipulating an earth power or sending a battle cruiser into earth space and turning it into a fine mist.

In that case, would the orbitals then attack the Atlantean ships? Would it end up being a suicide mission for the greater good of the Earth or would the Atlanteans simply 'Turn the satelites off' since we all know who 'Really' owns space..

It Would be like world war one airships attacking F-22s, with the unlimited ammo cheat, and god mode., The defeat the Orbitals would receive would be comical.

Simply put, the Splugorith can travel at FTL, use magic, use technological force fields, have fast access to resources that makes the orbitals seem pale in comparison. The Orbitals send a Fleet of a thousan ships? The Splugorith will send millions, the orbitals attack with some kinetic kill projectiles? The Splugorith will turn the gravity up in their habitats to earth normal for 2 minutes and laugh as every orbital in range dies of heart failure.

Nobody tells Atlantis that they can't have space, Atlantis chooses not to conquer space.

[rat_bastard]

Well that raises another question:

If Atlantis is so powerful, why would they even bother to save the Earth? Why not just go somewhere else? With a society as advanced as they are, what's keeping them here at all?

One, it bleeds high magic, which is a rare commodity in the universe and something the Splugorith need to live.

Two, Its a Breeding ground for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of different slaves, something which is valueable to them in the extreme. Lord Splyrnth is a Merchant first, everything else second.

Three, Rifts earth is a lawless place where the strong can do whatever it damn well pleases to the weak, nobody stronger than Splyrnth is telling him what to do.

Four, its fun and easy. The life and death struggles on the rest of the world are top quality reality television to the people, and nobody on planet can take his remote.

five, its full of new ideas, the people of earth are always trying new things that Lord Splyrnth has not yet tried from new sports to new methods of augmentation to new magics, all things Atlantis can take and refine and resell all around the galaxy.

[Mack]

Well that raises another question:

If Atlantis is so powerful, why would they even bother to save the Earth? Why not just go somewhere else? With a society as advanced as they are, what's keeping them here at all?

For the Splugorth, the Earth is huge crossroads. From it, they can access any number of other planets / dimensions.

It's like setting up shop in the Atlanta airport... from it you can go anywhere. Sure you could live in Savanna, but you'd just end up flying through Atlanta everytime you went on a trip.

[Dr. Doom III]

No worries Nazca Line Makers will take care of it.

[csbioborg]

these comments are why I have always thought they should have ran with huge rifts being the sole cause for not being able to go into space. THe orbitals colonies just don't make a compelling enough threat to stop space travel from rifts earth

[Danger]

The Orbital Satellites will take care of it. Just like everything else in space.

[glitterboy2098]

splyyncryth would save earth because it would be cheaper to deflect and asteroid than it would be to uproot his earth based empire and movesomewhere else. the first requires a handful of starships to push the rock into a new orbit. the other requires the evacuation of millions of servitors, many more millions of slavestock, the packing up of billions of items, the evacuation of hundreds of thousands of shops and millions of visitors. the first can be done within months, the second could take years.

[glitterboy2098]

if he teleported out just his top servants, he'd be ruined. h's worked to set up atlantis as the largest megaversal market place. if he abandons it just to save his own skin, not only will he suffer a massive financial backlash from the lost revenue and stock, but his reputation would take a fatal blow. people would be wary of going ot atlantis to use the market, because they'd never whether splynny would try to stop any future disasters, or if he'd just leave them to their deaths.

the loss of revenue, combined with the loss of face, would likely spell splynncryths doom in competition with other splugorths. splynncryth is not the most powerful splugorth, and earth is his main claim to fame. the fact that other splugorth can just use the market keeps competitors from trying to take it over. letting the planet be destroyed, and not working to protect his customers and business partners would be a major setback. he'd no longer have the atlantis as a bargianing chip in intersplugorthian politics, which would catapult him back down to lesser status. even if some other splugorth didn't come in and kick him out, he'd have to work very hard to drag himself back up.

it is much easier for him to send a few spacecraft to the asteroid and push it out of the way. not only woukld the resources used be minimal, but he could use the event to increase his standing with the people using the market. he could spin it to emphasize his willingness to protect the market. which in turn would encourage more individuls to come to it, which would make the market more profitable. which would improve his standing amoung the splugorth.

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

now, I could see Splynny stopping said catastrophe just to stop the loss of face and prestige among the other Splugs. It'd be easy enough for him to do so and wouldn't require a vast expenditure of his resources, so I think he'd deal with it, like you or I would deal with a bug infestation or roof repair. He may go to another vacation spot in Gamma Sigma 6, but he'll be back when his minions have taken care of it.

if it required anymore of him and any amount of personal sacrifice, he'd up and leave, maybe setting up some sort of rift/ppe battery collection device to soak up all the PPE from all the dying that's about to occur.

[Samored II]

No worries Nazca Line Makers will take care of it.

That would assume the in-bound meteor would approach on a vector where the Nazca lines could supress. Based on their geographic location they could not cover all approach paths.

[Samored II]

Well that raises another question:

If Atlantis is so powerful, why would they even bother to save the Earth? Why not just go somewhere else? With a society as advanced as they are, what's keeping them here at all?

One, it bleeds high magic, which is a rare commodity in the universe and something the Splugorith need to live.

Wrong. Read any of the Three Galaxies sourcebooks. High magic environments aren't particularly rare. Nor is such an environment necessary for a Splugorth to live.

Two, Its a Breeding ground for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of different slaves, something which is valueable to them in the extreme. Lord Splyrnth is a Merchant first, everything else second.

The slave trade is, at best, a secondary business line. Splyncryyth owns a huge flea market that deals in local produced slaves on the side.

[Mack]

For the Splugorth, the Earth is huge crossroads. From it, they can access any number of other planets / dimensions.

It's like setting up shop in the Atlanta airport... from it you can go anywhere. Sure you could live in Savanna, but you'd just end up flying through Atlanta everytime you went on a trip.

Is a primitive, technically inept melting pot of lifeforms really that important. It might be one thing if the inhabitants of Earth got there by choice, but typically they get here by accidental Rifts. So its really a gamble to rely on an Interdimensional Crossroad to be the sole source of your business.

You misunderstand me. Earth isn't important to the Splugorth because of the people who live on it. It's important because Earth makes it easy to go somewhere else. It's a hub / nexus / crossroads / intersection. It's not that Earth is essiential (the Spulgorth certainly did alright with it). Being on Earth just makes things easier.

[glitterboy2098]

Well that raises another question:

If Atlantis is so powerful, why would they even bother to save the Earth? Why not just go somewhere else? With a society as advanced as they are, what's keeping them here at all?

the high magic of earth would be a first. plus becuase earth is a dimensional hub of sorts the splugs cant loose that. it gives them a great chance at having and finding diffirent slaves/allies.

and as i pointed out, its faster, cheaper, and easier for them to stop the disaster than it would be for them to move.

[Esckey]

I doubt Atlantis would ever take over Rifts Earth because of the large amounts of rifts that make it profitable also make it a poor place to hold onto. It would take lots of resources, manpower, time and money to keep everything in check. It would be like telling your enemies that your going to be away for the weekend and then leaving them the keys to your place even though you left the front and back door unlocked and every window wide open. While Atlantis could afford to, it would be a very long timetable and cut into profits considerably.


And High MAgic Environments aren't rare, theres one in PW thats a world elementals(tempest) and another that out classes Rifts Earth ten fold(Gemini 2), its the fact that Rifts Earth is A) still more powerful then 98% of the magic rich worlds out there and that it is B) somewhat stable and inhabitable enviroment. The rift activitly and chaos on Gemini two makes it vitually uninhabitable. Its the Goldilocks world

[Library Ogre]

The simple answer is that Splynncrth would do a cost/benefit analysis since he is, after all, a legitimate businessman.

IMO, he would likely get some of his Kittani astrophysicists together and ask them "What would be necessary to stop, redirect, or better yet, mine this small moon hurtling at us?" They'd crunch the numbers and come back with an answer. His response would be either a) "Screw you guys, I'm going home", at which point he'd teleport away, and let his minions pack up as best they could or b) "I'm sick of these m*f* rocks dropping on my m*f* house!" and teleport up a sufficient strike force to deal with the threat.

What would it come down to? Which is the best for business? Is the cost of mounting a space expedition worth it to save the land-based facilities? My bet is that it will be for most values of "giant rock flying at the planet", but probably won't be for "sun about to expand into a nova".

As for why he doesn't take over the planet... again, cost/benefit. The cost would be high, even for Atlantis. The benefit would be small. As such, he keeps his yard relatively safe, launches raids when profitable or amusing, and lets the rest of the planet go merrily to hell.

[Jesterzzn]

It's already been stated that Splynncryth is on Earth because he finds it enjoyable. He won't go out of his way to save it because he already has plenty of planets and billions of people under his control. Atlantis is not some kind of lynch pin to his empire, it's his version of Las Vegas where you're able to do anything you want for a price. If the entire planet was in danger the likelihood is far greater he'd just teleport out with his highest servants and leave everything else to die. His investment in Earth is nowhere near what people are making it out to be.

The ley lines would still be there even after said meteor hit, so if he really cared about the "crossroads" of Earth he'd just teleport back after the impact and take the planet over completely with no resistance. Everything else would be dead or driven into hiding so it would actually be less of a resource drain to go that route than to expend forces in a takeover. Plus, if Earth and its rifts were so valuable to Splynncryth, he'd have long since taken complete control of the planet.

Earth is just entertainment to him, nothing more.

I'm thinking you need to reread the sections on Splynie's motives. People are not making it out to be anything other than what its stated to be. Earth, and specifically Atlantis is precisely what made Splynn a super-power in relation to other Splugorth. His market is one of the largest most varried and most traveled in the megaverse, and his "prestige" has been climbing ever higher. Splugorth seem to not care so much for power as they seem to simply use power to atain recognition and kudos from their fellow god-like beings. Being the MC of Earth, a place that many dimentional travelers use to get from one place to another, gives Splynn the kind of clout with his peer group all the other spluggies envy. I'm guessing he'd rather give up the rest of his empire than give up the recognition he's gained since opening Atlantis for business.

[Crazy Lou]

It's already been stated that Splynncryth is on Earth because he finds it enjoyable. He won't go out of his way to save it because he already has plenty of planets and billions of people under his control. Atlantis is not some kind of lynch pin to his empire, it's his version of Las Vegas where you're able to do anything you want for a price. If the entire planet was in danger the likelihood is far greater he'd just teleport out with his highest servants and leave everything else to die. His investment in Earth is nowhere near what people are making it out to be.

The ley lines would still be there even after said meteor hit, so if he really cared about the "crossroads" of Earth he'd just teleport back after the impact and take the planet over completely with no resistance. Everything else would be dead or driven into hiding so it would actually be less of a resource drain to go that route than to expend forces in a takeover. Plus, if Earth and its rifts were so valuable to Splynncryth, he'd have long since taken complete control of the planet.

Earth is just entertainment to him, nothing more.

I'm thinking you need to reread the sections on Splynie's motives. People are not making it out to be anything other than what its stated to be. Earth, and specifically Atlantis is precisely what made Splynn a super-power in relation to other Splugorth. His market is one of the largest most varried and most traveled in the megaverse, and his "prestige" has been climbing ever higher. Splugorth seem to not care so much for power as they seem to simply use power to atain recognition and kudos from their fellow god-like beings. Being the MC of Earth, a place that many dimentional travelers use to get from one place to another, gives Splynn the kind of clout with his peer group all the other spluggies envy. I'm guessing he'd rather give up the rest of his empire than give up the recognition he's gained since opening Atlantis for business.

QFT. And if you still disagree, show us and explain what you mean about this alejandro.

[Dr. Doom III]

No worries Nazca Line Makers will take care of it.

That would assume the in-bound meteor would approach on a vector where the Nazca lines could supress. Based on their geographic location they could not cover all approach paths.

That depends on how far away the giant energy creatures they create can fly.

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

I would think one of the umpteen dozen of Alien Intelligences or Demon Lords that want the planet for one nefarious plot or another, would eventually step in.

I couldn't see the Lord of the Deep caring (unless the meteor was going to land on him) or Nxxla (as it just give him more undead minions), but maybe Myrlynn, or maybe the Psynexx Entity.

as far as power blocs go, I'd think the Archons might do something about it, if they still have orbital capabilities.

Regardless, if a bunch of deep sea miners can crack a Earth Killer with just a nuke, I'm sure the mega-powers of Rifts Earth could handle it with little fuss.

[Library Ogre]

So, Atlantis (Splynncryth) decides "The cost of saving the Earth would not be equitable in the long run and we're just gonna leave." So they pack up shop and take their business elsewhere.

Are there any other creatures, societies, entities that have the power to influence the outcome of the Earth-Killer? And if so, would they even bother?

The main problem will be knowledge; the orbitals don't communicate, and the groundlings don't, to our knowledge, watch the skies. Clairvoyance would be the main way of warning, and folks all over would be having flashes.

You then have the problem of how to get up there, and what to get up there. "How" is easily answered by an eclectic magical society... a teleportation circle on a nexus will get anything you need into orbit, at a relatively small cost (just one faerie). "What" is more difficult... it has to be strong enough to deflect or destroy the asteroid, and to survive the attacks of the orbitals.

My best guess, using North American factions, would be Lazlo, using technology purchased from Naruni or, perhaps, Triax (depending on the NGR's view of magic, they could be willing to deal with Lazlo for this... especially if Lazlo can get them a reliable space presence).

[Subjugator]

Splynncryth would demolish it for the same reason he'd stop an attack on Atlantis - it'd inconvenience him, and it'd be less of an inconvenience for him to send a bunch of guys topside to take care of it. Money? Cost? Whatever. I imagine that most of the Sploogies have cash on a scale nearing that of Thraxus.

/Sub

[Library Ogre]

Splynncryth would demolish it for the same reason he'd stop an attack on Atlantis - it'd inconvenience him, and it'd be less of an inconvenience for him to send a bunch of guys topside to take care of it. Money? Cost? Whatever. I imagine that most of the Sploogies have cash on a scale nearing that of Thraxus.

/Sub

I tend to agree, but he asked "If Splynncrth decided not to bother". Ergo, I went with what was asked.

[Samored II]

You then have the problem of how to get up there, and what to get up there. "How" is easily answered by an eclectic magical society... a teleportation circle on a nexus will get anything you need into orbit, at a relatively small cost (just one faerie). "What" is more difficult... it has to be strong enough to deflect or destroy the asteroid, and to survive the attacks of the orbitals.

The 3600 mile teleport circle range isn't enough to get the payload out of the debris field. According to Mutants in Orbit the containment barrier begins 100,000 miles out in orbit. Based on the impact damage rules, something trying to fly out through the debris field would be taking thousands of MDC per minute from micro-meteor strikes.

My best guess, using North American factions, would be Lazlo, using technology purchased from Naruni or, perhaps, Triax (depending on the NGR's view of magic, they could be willing to deal with Lazlo for this... especially if Lazlo can get them a reliable space presence).

The Naruni Half-Moon fighter might be fast enough to punch out. Nothing Earth-made has the speed and MDC to make it out.

[Samored II]

I would think one of the umpteen dozen of Alien Intelligences or Demon Lords that want the planet for one nefarious plot or another, would eventually step in.

I couldn't see the Lord of the Deep caring (unless the meteor was going to land on him) or Nxxla (as it just give him more undead minions), but maybe Myrlynn, or maybe the Psynexx Entity.

as far as power blocs go, I'd think the Archons might do something about it, if they still have orbital capabilities.

Regardless, if a bunch of deep sea miners can crack a Earth Killer with just a nuke, I'm sure the mega-powers of Rifts Earth could handle it with little fuss.

Arkhons, operating out of their Mars base could intercept such a meteor far enough out to avoid damaging the planet. Other than the Orbitals, no other power-block has space-based assets or the unfettered access to do anything.

[rat_bastard]

Japan is another Obvious Choice, a decade ago they where a Space exploring society, they are the Human nation most likely to have Aerospace engineers and the ability to manufacture an appropriate spacecraft.

[Library Ogre]

The 3600 mile teleport circle range isn't enough to get the payload out of the debris field. According to Mutants in Orbit the containment barrier begins 100,000 miles out in orbit. Based on the impact damage rules, something trying to fly out through the debris field would be taking thousands of MDC per minute from micro-meteor strikes.

Which is utter idiocy, since people would be able to operate in LEO (<1240 miles), MEO (<22,240 miles), and even a good number of HEOs (>22,240 miles). Most of what the current space program does is in LEO. A containment barrier starting at 100,000 miles (almost half-way to the moon) is useless for keeping people out of space.

[Samored II]

The 3600 mile teleport circle range isn't enough to get the payload out of the debris field. According to Mutants in Orbit the containment barrier begins 100,000 miles out in orbit. Based on the impact damage rules, something trying to fly out through the debris field would be taking thousands of MDC per minute from micro-meteor strikes.

Which is utter idiocy, since people would be able to operate in LEO (<1240 miles), MEO (<22,240 miles), and even a good number of HEOs (>22,240 miles). Most of what the current space program does is in LEO. A containment barrier starting at 100,000 miles (almost half-way to the moon) is useless for keeping people out of space.

I would suggest, then, you take the subject up with the books author.

[rat_bastard]

The 3600 mile teleport circle range isn't enough to get the payload out of the debris field. According to Mutants in Orbit the containment barrier begins 100,000 miles out in orbit. Based on the impact damage rules, something trying to fly out through the debris field would be taking thousands of MDC per minute from micro-meteor strikes.

Which is utter idiocy, since people would be able to operate in LEO (<1240 miles), MEO (<22,240 miles), and even a good number of HEOs (>22,240 miles). Most of what the current space program does is in LEO. A containment barrier starting at 100,000 miles (almost half-way to the moon) is useless for keeping people out of space.

Not to mention that you would have to basically grind up another planet to get enough matter to cover such a huge area.

[Talavar]

A serious group of high level magicians could stop it, given foreknowledge and some prep time.

Here's a possible techno-wizard solution: Get a Naruni contra-gravity jet pack (they have no max. altitude, and could fly into outer space if not for the killer satellites/debris field, and can move up to 2 tons of mass) and a cargo container. Enchant a suit of environmental armour & the cargo container with the TW additions Invisibility Superior and Teleport Superior, both at 10th level. Use an expensive amount of gems to get the activation costs way down. Fly into the upper atmosphere with up to 2 tons of explosives (heavy nukes, whatever) at the awesome speed of 10 miles/hour, go invisible, and when the debris field comes into sight, teleport past it (it can't be 3000 miles thick as well as encircling the world in a 100 000 mile orbit).

Continue flying invisible until you find your asteroid, plant the explosives, ditch the cargo container, and use the same combination of flying/teleporting & invisibility superior to get back to earth.

[rat_bastard]

Btw you got a page number for that 100,000 mile up debris field? I cannot find that anywhere.

[Mack]

Btw you got a page number for that 100,000 mile up debris field? I cannot find that anywhere.

Seconded. That number isn't in Mutants In Orbit's description of the debris field.

EDIT - And Mark's assessment is accurate. That's way too high for it's intended purpose.

[Samored II]

Btw you got a page number for that 100,000 mile up debris field? I cannot find that anywhere.

Seconded. That number isn't in Mutants In Orbit's description of the debris field.

no. but i have heard about that number before. it might be in a diffirent book or even a rifter.

My mistake, 100,000 miles is the radius of the radiation belts. The debris field extends 19,000 miles. Since 19,000 is 5.27X greater than 3600. It's still impossible to teleport beyond the debris field.

[rat_bastard]

Btw you got a page number for that 100,000 mile up debris field? I cannot find that anywhere.

Seconded. That number isn't in Mutants In Orbit's description of the debris field.

no. but i have heard about that number before. it might be in a diffirent book or even a rifter.

My mistake, 100,000 miles is the radius of the radiation belts. The debris field extends 19,000 miles. Since 19,000 is 5.27X greater than 3600. It's still impossible to teleport beyond the debris field.

Page #?

[Samored II]

A serious group of high level magicians could stop it, given foreknowledge and some prep time.

Here's a possible techno-wizard solution: Get a Naruni contra-gravity jet pack (they have no max. altitude, and could fly into outer space if not for the killer satellites/debris field, and can move up to 2 tons of mass) and a cargo container. Enchant a suit of environmental armour & the cargo container with the TW additions Invisibility Superior and Teleport Superior, both at 10th level. Use an expensive amount of gems to get the activation costs way down. Fly into the upper atmosphere with up to 2 tons of explosives (heavy nukes, whatever) at the awesome speed of 10 miles/hour, go invisible, and when the debris field comes into sight, teleport past it (it can't be 3000 miles thick as well as encircling the world in a 100 000 mile orbit).

Continue flying invisible until you find your asteroid, plant the explosives, ditch the cargo container, and use the same combination of flying/teleporting & invisibility superior to get back to earth.

Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

[rat_bastard]

Once again, where are you getting this?

[Cybermancer]

Once again, where are you getting this?

Seconded.

The 19,000 mile limit indicates the Van Allen belts, I beleive. There is also mention of orbital community spacecraft and satellites much lower in orbit than this. As well as much higher.

A page number would be helpful.

[Talavar]

A serious group of high level magicians could stop it, given foreknowledge and some prep time.

Here's a possible techno-wizard solution: Get a Naruni contra-gravity jet pack (they have no max. altitude, and could fly into outer space if not for the killer satellites/debris field, and can move up to 2 tons of mass) and a cargo container. Enchant a suit of environmental armour & the cargo container with the TW additions Invisibility Superior and Teleport Superior, both at 10th level. Use an expensive amount of gems to get the activation costs way down. Fly into the upper atmosphere with up to 2 tons of explosives (heavy nukes, whatever) at the awesome speed of 10 miles/hour, go invisible, and when the debris field comes into sight, teleport past it (it can't be 3000 miles thick as well as encircling the world in a 100 000 mile orbit).

Continue flying invisible until you find your asteroid, plant the explosives, ditch the cargo container, and use the same combination of flying/teleporting & invisibility superior to get back to earth.

Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Gotta echo rat_bastard & Cybermancer - where are you getting these numbers? An artificial debris field 19 000 miles thick is ridiculously large; heck it'd probably block out a significant amount of the earth's sunlight that thick and with that kind of density.

[Cybermancer]

Here are some Wikipedia articles about Orbits:

LEO:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit

MEO:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_Earth_orbit

HEO:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_elliptical_orbit

Geostationay Orbit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostationary_orbit

Geosynchronous Orbit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosynchronous_orbit

And finally, the Van Allen Belts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt

The numbers you are giving would wipe out space travel for the Orbital community for anything below the midway point of MEO. This is not how Mutants in Orbit portrays space travel at all.

[rat_bastard]

I'm beginning to think that any numbers Samored uses are pulled directly from his rectal data storage location.

[Mack]

Don't get personal, folks.

[Subjugator]

Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Where on earth did you get the idea that it would take 1800 MDC per minute at 1mg/m^3?

/Sub

[glitterboy2098]

or that it's 19,000 miles thick? i mean, shoot. that would put Liaka station in the middle of the field.

[Esckey]

THe book never actually says where or how thick it is. And even if it was 19 000miles thick it wouldn't jeopardize any station(espeically Laika that orbits the Moon)

[Samored II]

Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Wait a minute.. First lets make a few assumptions... lets assume that your data is correct and lets assume that said container isn't moving at 19,000 miles per minute (Which would mean the container would only need 1801 MDC to survive and that the MDC-per minute is an arbitrary value because otherwise it would have to be a calculated value based on the velocity of *something* - either the container moving, the stuff in the field, or both).

Now given your density above, (1 miligram of matter per cubic meter) thats a total mass of about 1836 kilograms (4040 lbs or 2 short tons) floating in a 19,000mi x 196' x 196' area of space (This is the amount of mass you're likely to encounter if moving mind you, not the total mass of the field) if you're moving in a straight line with a cargo container that has a cube of 60m (Thats a big container! 588 sq. ft). Now since we're talking about mass here (As opposed to weight) - that would be like saying the debris field is either littered with small grains of lead or really *huge* pieces of styrofoam. Either way, unless they explode on impact with some sort of force multiplier or something, that's not a very dense field (You're going to encounter about 60 grains of lead/blocks of styrofoam for every meter you travel in one direction) and isn't likely to cause as much damage as your source suggests. Note I say dense again in reference to mass, not in object population.

So to be more precise, that is a very highly populated field of styrofoam...

I'm not trying to flame you Samored, all I'm really saying is that the author of the source you're quoting from obviously isn't a physicist..

True. Kevin Siembieda isn't a physicist. He is; however, the author of the setting. As such his opinions, as stated in the source material are final.

[Samored II]

A serious group of high level magicians could stop it, given foreknowledge and some prep time.

Here's a possible techno-wizard solution: Get a Naruni contra-gravity jet pack (they have no max. altitude, and could fly into outer space if not for the killer satellites/debris field, and can move up to 2 tons of mass) and a cargo container. Enchant a suit of environmental armour & the cargo container with the TW additions Invisibility Superior and Teleport Superior, both at 10th level. Use an expensive amount of gems to get the activation costs way down. Fly into the upper atmosphere with up to 2 tons of explosives (heavy nukes, whatever) at the awesome speed of 10 miles/hour, go invisible, and when the debris field comes into sight, teleport past it (it can't be 3000 miles thick as well as encircling the world in a 100 000 mile orbit).

Continue flying invisible until you find your asteroid, plant the explosives, ditch the cargo container, and use the same combination of flying/teleporting & invisibility superior to get back to earth.

Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Gotta echo rat_bastard & Cybermancer - where are you getting these numbers? An artificial debris field 19 000 miles thick is ridiculously large; heck it'd probably block out a significant amount of the earth's sunlight that thick and with that kind of density.

I would suggest you read pages 22, 23, 61, 84, and 85 of Mutants in Orbit.

[Samored II]

THe book never actually says where or how thick it is. And even if it was 19 000miles thick it wouldn't jeopardize any station(espeically Laika that orbits the Moon)

It states the Orbitals never approach closer than 19,000 miles due to radiation and the threat of the containment barrier.

[Samored II]

or that it's 19,000 miles thick? i mean, shoot. that would put Liaka station in the middle of the field.

The minimum orbits of the various stations begin at 22,400 miles. Well above the edge of the containment barrier.

[Samored II]

Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Where on earth did you get the idea that it would take 1800 MDC per minute at 1mg/m^3?

/Sub

It is an estimation based on the density of the debris field and the relative velocity of the impacts a craft would suffer while crossing it. Derived from the impact damage rules iirc 1mdc /20 mph over 50mph and an orbital closing velocity of 10 miles/sec.

[glitterboy2098]

the density of the field has never been printed, nor how far up the field extends.