Diabolist & Summoner & Circle Magic

[AaronCE]

Okay. I realize the 2nd edition has been out awhile. And maybe I just didn't go over the Diabolist & Summoner (two of my favorite classes, which I was/am very familiar with from the 1st version), but I noticed something kinda sorta really major.

In the revised edition, the Diabolist cannot create circles. Cannot. Only use exsisting ones.

Woah.

Yeah, the Summoner is a dedicated Circle Mage. I get that is his/her bread and butter. But damn, I always thought rules regarding the Diabolist having significant (but lesser) Circle Magic abilies was spot on. Being the symbol specialist s/he is.

Yeah, in the first version it doesn't really say how many circles the Diabolist knows at the start (at least in my printing), and there is mention that s/he generally is only concerned with Protection and Power Circles. So another differentiation with the Summoner. But damn.. No circle creation at all? That's kinda rough.

Anyways, I just noticed this difference in versions, and wondered what the thoughts of the board were.

~A

[Library Ogre]

I allow Diabolists to create circles, but they have almost no ability to control summoned creatures.

[The Dark Elf]

I like the 2nd ed rule as is. Keeps two classes very seperate.

[runebeo]

Since the megaverse is all connected why not use the Shifter class instead of a summoner. I liked Diabolists as support NPC, but the summoner class was way more fun to play and the power matrix circle was such a wild concept. I hope more new circles & wards are in the new book. If you want magic circles for your Diabolist just multi-class a level or two of summoner it won't take long and you get a minion or two to protect you.

[Northern Ranger]

I like the thought of keeping them separate too. If the Diabolist can start creating circles, then what do you even need a Summoner for? (I know, the Summoner can still do MORE circles, but I really like having them as separate entities. It's easier to keep track of... to me anyways.)

[t0m]

i think its makes sense that a diabolist could figure out how to activate, or even create a circle through study, or direct instruction. their knowledge/training revolves the combination and manipulation of the root of all magic circles (wards/symbols etc)...it also makes sense that they wouldnt really know the slightest thing about controlling anything that was summoned (though depending on what was summoned, a high MA or smart role-player might be able to strike a workable bargain with the summoned), because all their training revolves around the symbols. a summoner, on the other hand, might not even know how or why the circle works, but learned to create, activate and control it, which takes up the majority of his training.

[Starmage21]

i think its makes sense that a diabolist could figure out how to activate, or even create a circle through study, or direct instruction. their knowledge/training revolves the combination and manipulation of the root of all magic circles (wards/symbols etc)...it also makes sense that they wouldnt really know the slightest thing about controlling anything that was summoned (though depending on what was summoned, a high MA or smart role-player might be able to strike a workable bargain with the summoned), because all their training revolves around the symbols. a summoner, on the other hand, might not even know how or why the circle works, but learned to create, activate and control it, which takes up the majority of his training.

This seems to be the gist of it. Though summoners are educated men when it comes to magic, it would seem their focus is on the summoning circles. Diabolists, on the other hand, have a mastery of the basics of mystic symbology and can activate circles when they find them. They(diabolists) just dont have the training it takes to draw one himself unless specifically taught.

IIRC Diabolists CAN draw protection circles, but they have to learn one first. They start with none.

*edit*
Also, Shifters ROCK, but the function of their magic is invocations. The diabolist, and the summoner especially seem to focus only on ritual magic, which is by definition a great deal stronger than even a circle drawn with an invocation.

[gaby]

Well I hope MoM will have some all New Spells Circles and Wards.

Any ideas for New Circles and Wards?

[Northern Ranger]

Don't think this one has been done before...

The Circle of All Seeing
PPE: 50 to activate, 15 per melee it stays active.
Saving Throw: Standard
Range: Special
This circle would allow the Summoner, once positioined at it's center and having activated the circle, to see in his "mind's eye" any location in the world he himself has visited. Also, it would allow him to spy upon any individual, whether the Summoner knows them personally or not, provided he or she includes the speaking of the individuals true name in the incantation. Note that a psionic sixth sense would alert someone to the fact that they were being watched, but they would have no way of recognizing from where.

[Northern Ranger]

I confess I'm not as familiar as I probably should be with circle magic. But you hit on the general idea I had for this, including describing when the mage sees exactly as I saw it in my mind! It just needs a different name, but the idea is sound!

[Starmage21]

Don't think this one has been done before...

The Circle of All Seeing
PPE: 50 to activate, 15 per melee it stays active.
Saving Throw: Standard
Range: Special
This circle would allow the Summoner, once positioined at it's center and having activated the circle, to see in his "mind's eye" any location in the world he himself has visited. Also, it would allow him to spy upon any individual, whether the Summoner knows them personally or not, provided he or she includes the speaking of the individuals true name in the incantation. Note that a psionic sixth sense would alert someone to the fact that they were being watched, but they would have no way of recognizing from where.

I dont like the fact that it costs continual PPE to continue using. I am relatively sure even some of the big-bad power circles dont cost anything above and beyond the PPE it takes to make them, and the 5PPE you need to activate it upon entering.

[Northern Ranger]

Don't like it, don't use it! Or change it! Or do whatever you want to it! That's the beauty of this game, it allows you to change things up pretty much however you want!