UEEF Marine Corps Sourcebook

[dataweaver]

It could be that the ASC is actually more akin to a colonial militia that has the responsibility of defending Earth and the surrounding space...much like what I assume any colony has....the UEEF is a Spacy/Marine force projection service that would respond to any and all requests for assistance that a colony world may need...however being spread too thin fighting the Invid they could not send support to back up the ASC.

This actually holds closer to true as far as what the ASC really was in Super Dimensional Calvalry (before it was reworked, chopped up, and became Robotech Masters Saga). It was not earth they were on, but a "distant colony world."

Epsilon Eridani, IIRC. And Liberté (i.e., Space Station Liberty) was located in the Proxima system. Given Yune's penchant for drawing heavily on the original series (even dipping into preproduction stuff), I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Chris0013's supposition is correct as to the functional nature of the ASC - and I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that Space Station Liberty orbits Proxima Centauri, or that Epsilon Eridani has a habitable (if harsh) world orbiting it, with the physical characteristics of Glorie (the world on which Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross took place). Heck, the Tristars are fold-capable; a particularly fun nugget to include would be to surmise that the UEG established a colony on said world during the heyday of the ASC, and that that colony is still alive and well and harboring the last remnant of the ASC as of 2044.

[Chris0013]

It could be that the ASC is actually more akin to a colonial militia that has the responsibility of defending Earth and the surrounding space...much like what I assume any colony has....the UEEF is a Spacy/Marine force projection service that would respond to any and all requests for assistance that a colony world may need...however being spread too thin fighting the Invid they could not send support to back up the ASC.

This actually holds closer to true as far as what the ASC really was in Super Dimensional Calvalry (before it was reworked, chopped up, and became Robotech Masters Saga). It was not earth they were on, but a "distant colony world."

Epsilon Eridani, IIRC. And Liberté (i.e., Space Station Liberty) was located in the Proxima system. Given Yune's penchant for drawing heavily on the original series (even dipping into preproduction stuff), I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Chris0013's supposition is correct as to the functional nature of the ASC - and I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that Space Station Liberty orbits Proxima Centauri, or that Epsilon Eridani has a habitable (if harsh) world orbiting it, with the physical characteristics of Glorie (the world on which Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross took place). Heck, the Tristars are fold-capable; a particularly fun nugget to include would be to surmise that the UEG established a colony on said world during the heyday of the ASC, and that that colony is still alive and well and harboring the last remnant of the ASC as of 2044.

If I recall correctly this was kind of the basis for one of Mechanimorphs RPG scenarios. A group of former UEG politicians backed by ASC forces showing up after the Invid leave Earth.

[dataweaver]

If I recall correctly this was kind of the basis for one of Mechanimorphs RPG scenarios. A group of former UEG politicians backed by ASC forces showing up after the Invid leave Earth.

You recall correctly. It's not quite the way I would have done it; but I like what he came up with. I especially like the way that it allows you to bring the ASC in all its glory (no pun intended) into the Shadow Chronicles era.

[dataweaver]

Why? There is nothing that states that Edwards is a part of the ASC. In fact, Edwards was a part of the UEDF up until the Pioneer mission left. To state otherwise would have Edwards in command of the ASC existing in the time of the Macross Saga. Simply because ground forces are his to command does not make them ASC. This is simply an assumption. If you are going by one line in the unfilmed Sentinals script, then the assumption is tenuous, at best. It would be far more likely to say that Edwards was in command of Marine personnel, while Rick Hunter was in command of Fleet personnel and Lisa Hunter was the overal naval commander at the beginning of the Pioneer mission.

Take another look at what I said: "The first is that RSCF did establish quite clearly that it was Macek's original intent that the Expedition's ground forces were under the command of Edwards, and that this made them ASC." (emphasis added)

Now take a look at this text fragment that RSCF provided:

Sentinels Script: Ep. #6 Hunter's Moon
Rick: I wish I could just order those troops back to base.
Breetai: What's stopping you?
Rick: Military protocol. When those troops are on the ground, they are under the direct jurisdiction of The Army of the Southern Cross. Edward's calls the shots.

The script establishes the connection between "under the command of Edwards" and "they're ASC". I goofed and got the causality backward; but the point remains the same.

I am not claiming that this is the way things ought to be now; many of Macek's original ideas for the Sentinels are problematic, and this is one of them. I'm also not claiming that this is the way things are now. Merely that this was what Macek originally intended.

FWIW, Colonel Adam Reinhardt was the first commandant of the UEEF Marines, and Gunther Reinhardt is the second one (see Gunther's write-up in the RPG).

[Peacebringer]

Epsilon Eridani, IIRC. And Liberté (i.e., Space Station Liberty) was located in the Proxima system. Given Yune's penchant for drawing heavily on the original series (even dipping into preproduction stuff), I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Chris0013's supposition is correct as to the functional nature of the ASC - and I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that Space Station Liberty orbits Proxima Centauri, or that Epsilon Eridani has a habitable (if harsh) world orbiting it, with the physical characteristics of Glorie (the world on which Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross took place). Heck, the Tristars are fold-capable; a particularly fun nugget to include would be to surmise that the UEG established a colony on said world during the heyday of the ASC, and that that colony is still alive and well and harboring the last remnant of the ASC as of 2044.

I disagree with you. Given what we know about planetary data, E. Eridani is only 800MY old. It's still in the formation process. We have detected two asteroid belts orbiting at 3AUs and at 20AU plus. E. Eridani has a very small HZ zone and the chances a world is within that zone are slight. If there is a world that's habitable, it would have to be terraformed. If we apply what we know about Earth at that time (Mars, at that time was having it's core go solid and it's magnetic field being shut down, thereby allowing solar wind to reduce the atmosphere to what it is today), then it would have green seas (dissolved iron) with volcanic islands the only land masses as continents haven't formed. The atmosphere, would be outgassing CO2 and trace amounts of hydrogen and several times thicker than Earth's. Probably like Venus. It's also very hot, maybe so hot, water boils off the surface.

The point is, scientific inferences may not fit into your game, so it should take precedence. In fact, nothing should besides what you want in your game. So why argue about it?

[ShadowLogan]

Why? There is nothing that states that Edwards is a part of the ASC. In fact, Edwards was a part of the UEDF up until the Pioneer mission left. To state otherwise would have Edwards in command of the ASC existing in the time of the Macross Saga.

The ASC did exist during the Macross Saga. They are identified in the hunt for Khyron is SA by a TV announcer in the background in (IIRC) Ep.35.

The ASC is also viewed as part of the UEDF.

[dataweaver]

The point is, scientific inferences may not fit into your game, so it should take precedence. In fact, nothing should besides what you want in your game. So why argue about it?

Huh? What the heck are you talking about?

[dataweaver]

Now take a look at this text fragment that RSCF provided

Again, this can be pretty much thrown out entirely.

Well, duh! That's one of the things I've been saying all along! Are you not reading what I'm writing? For the third time: I have been saying all along that the script is secondary canon at best; reread my posts if you don't believe me. And for the second time, I have never endorsed the notion that Edwards should be ASC. Please get your facts straight before you start arguing.

[dataweaver]

I give up...

[ShadowLogan]

The first Robotech war was over at this point and yes, this was when Leonard had created the Army of the Southern Cross in South America fighting the Zentraedi Malcontents. This force was mostly made up of Destroids. Again, Edwards was NOT a part of that. Edwards was a part of the UEDF and later a part of the UEEF. There is no mention that Edwards is a part of the ASC.

And no, the ASC is not a part of the UEDF. Otherwise, it would not be stated that the ASC was created to help defend the earth in addition to what remained of the UEDF. They are clearly two distinct orginizations.

The 1st RT war may have been over at this time, but the Macross Saga was not. The ASC as an organization can be shown to exist during TMS, but there is no other information from the show about them.

Where Edwards and the UEDF/ASC relationships fall depend largely on which RT universe one looks at and sometimes even the time frame involved. For example: the Novel Universe has Edwards as RDF initially, but does promise to join the ASC eventually (I forget if he actually did) when he is ready. A similiar setup could occur in the Yune Universe.

[Chris0013]

As seen in the comic series "From the Stars" both Leonard and Edwards are part of the UEDF. I am thinking that after the Rain of Death and the story of how Leonard pulled the ASC together and got South America under control the ASC was established as the Earth's military (like I was saying before as a 'colonial' militia for the Earth) and the UEEF was sent out to create a non-colony aligned force to go where needed and do what needed. Including finding the Master's and suing for peace.

[dataweaver]

According to the Masters Saga Sourcebook, the ASC first made its appearance during the Malcontent Uprisings. It was a militia that was created by Colonel Leonard of the UEDF after the Rain of Fire to help him save South America from the Malcontents. The Leonard was promoted to General and put in charge of the UEDF, while Hayes and Hunter established the UEEF. Leonard found himself on the short end of the supply ship and found himself relying on and expanding the ASC in order to manage his duties as UEDF commander. By 2017, the ASC had replaced the UEDF for all practical purposes; in 2017, the UEG formally recognized this fact by adopting the ASC as their military organization. Depending on which source you consider, what was left of the UEDF either merged into the ASC (in one account, becoming the GMP) or faded away.

[taalismn]

Let's not forget that Marines are also likely to be the assigned guards for embassies and Ambassadors(remember this, if you're assigned to protect Lisa Hunter)...Much as I'd like to substitute ASC troopers(because they have the gaudier armor), the UEEF is more likely to be dealing with alien embassies and diplomatic missions...On Earth, we see the GMP protecting government offices(and presumably terrestrial Embassy Rows)...
That means a likely issue of gussied-up armor(most likely the lighter CBR type) and (largely) ceremonial rifles and other weaponry(with the heavy stuff stashed close at hand in the guardhouse)..

[jedi078]

Let's not forget that Marines are also likely to be the assigned guards for embassies and Ambassadors...

If you are using the United States as an example of how the UEEF would safeguard their Embassies you should know that it would be the UEEF’s version of the GMP (who I see more as the equivalent of Federal Law Enforcement Agents, then actual military personnel) who provides security to the Ambassador not the Marines.

These are the duties the Marines would carry out at a UEEF Embassy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Security_Guard

These are the duties that the UEEF version of the GMP would carry out at a UEEF Embassy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Security_Officer

[dataweaver]

OK, Synther: how do you draw the distinction between the UEDF and the UEEF? And what do you think Leonard was being given command of when the UEG summoned him and made him a commanding officer?

[dataweaver]

OK, Synther: how do you draw the distinction between the UEDF and the UEEF? And what do you think Leonard was being given command of when the UEG summoned him and made him a commanding officer?

You evidently have a hard time with reading comprehension.

Are you trying to get this topic locked? Can the insults, please. There's no need for them.

Again, it says: " It became quickly apparent that he was not being given sole command of the UEGs military forces as he had assumed." That means he was not given command of the entire UEDF as you have stated.

It then says, "Rather, he would be the new commanding officer of peace keeping forces," which means that there was another new peacekeeping force that was not the UEDF.

Actually, there's nothing saying that said peacekeeping forces were either new or not the UEDF. To be fair, there's also nothing saying that they were old or UEDF; but I'd think that the creation of a whole new military organization would get some sort of mention.

The simple conclusion is that he was given command of the ASC and that THIS was what was formally recognized as the peacekeeping force of earth.

Let's see: Leonard builds the ASC from the ground up during the Malcontent Uprisings, and then gets called to North America - leaving the ASC in the care of his top officers - in order for the UEG to give him command of his own organization? Yeah; I can see why he was ticked off...

Bear in mind that the text later mentions that he wasn't getting the resources that he needed to run an effective peacekeeping force, and thus was forced to draw on the infrastructure of the ASC. If it wasn't apparent already, this implies that the peacekeeping force of which he was given command wasn't the ASC.

This is contrary to what you stated. You stated he was given command of the UEDF. This clearly states that that is NOT what happened at all but was what Leonard wanted and had expected. It also clearly shows that there is a distinction between the three orginizations, since we know that there were UEDF forces left on earth after the UEEF left for Tirol. As to who they answered to for command is left open, but they were so negligible that it was likely direct to the UEG.

You still haven't answered my first question: what do you see as the difference between the UEDF and the UEEF?

[dataweaver]

I see you missed my sarcasm.

[taalismn]

Let's not forget that Marines are also likely to be the assigned guards for embassies and Ambassadors...

If you are using the United States as an example of how the UEEF would safeguard their Embassies you should know that it would be the UEEF’s version of the GMP (who I see more as the equivalent of Federal Law Enforcement Agents, then actual military personnel) who provides security to the Ambassador not the Marines.

These are the duties the Marines would carry out at a UEEF Embassy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Security_Guard

These are the duties that the UEEF version of the GMP would carry out at a UEEF Embassy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Security_Officer

Thanks for the clarification...I'll see how it matches up to the available OCC skillsets...

[dataweaver]

If we go by your interpretation of the ASC being a part of the UEDF and Leonard is in command of the UEDF but is NOT in command of all of the UEG military (which is clearly and plainly stated), what does that leave us? There are only two: UEDF and ASC. So if he's not in command of all of it, then what else is there, besides the command he already has, by your reckoning? I'm really curious as to what you come up with.

When the UEEF was founded in 2015, most of the assets of the UEDF were transferred over to it; but not all of them. The remaining UEDF forces were supposed to be a peacekeeping force on Earth while the UEEF was away on its mission. That means that there were three military organizations in play at this point: the UEEF, the UEDF, and the ASC. By my reckoning: when Leonard was called back to North America, the peacekeeping force of which he was given command was the UEDF. When he wasn't given the resources to do his job through the UEDF, he turned to the ASC, the militia organization that he had built and of which he was the de facto commander.

Note that there are no references to the UEDF after 2017. We don't have anything official as to the fate of the UEDF; but as I see it, Leonard consolidated it with the ASC. On paper, the ASC joined the UEDF; in practice, the UEDF's remaining assets were transferred over to the ASC. Long before the departure of the Pioneer fleet, there are effectively only two military forces under the aegis of the UEG: Rick and Lisa's UEEF, and Leonard's ASC (formally, the UEDF).

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Note that there are no references to the UEDF after 2017.

::sighs::

Eps. #54 Mind Games
MOONBASE CONTROL: On behalf of United Earth Defense forces and mission Commander Rolf Emerson, welcome back!

[jedi078]

Let's not forget that Marines are also likely to be the assigned guards for embassies and Ambassadors...

If you are using the United States as an example of how the UEEF would safeguard their Embassies you should know that it would be the UEEF’s version of the GMP (who I see more as the equivalent of Federal Law Enforcement Agents, then actual military personnel) who provides security to the Ambassador not the Marines.

These are the duties the Marines would carry out at a UEEF Embassy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Security_Guard

These are the duties that the UEEF version of the GMP would carry out at a UEEF Embassy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Security_Officer

Thanks for the clarification...I'll see how it matches up to the available OCC skillsets...

No problem, every single movie I have seen with Marines at a U.S. Embassy are so far off from what we really did......of course there is a reason for this.

[dataweaver]

Note that there are no references to the UEDF after 2017.

::sighs::

Eps. #54 Mind Games
MOONBASE CONTROL: On behalf of United Earth Defense forces and mission Commander Rolf Emerson, welcome back!

I was referring to the RPG. You know: the subject of this forum?

And for the record: your reference to Mind Games is fully compatible with the scenario that I was presenting when I said what you quote above.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

And for the record: your reference to Mind Games is fully compatible with the scenario that I was presenting when I said what you quote above.

Except that Emerson excercises direct operational control over the REF forces that return in Mind Games. If they were not in the same Chain-of-Command, he would not be able to.

[dataweaver]

But they are: they're both United Earth Military.

[dataweaver]

True enough; but he did receive command of some of it - and my contention is that when the UEEF left on its mission, the part that Leonard had command of was everything that was left behind.

In effect, Hunter ended up with jurisdiction over the fleet at Tirol and, later, the Sentinels campaign; Leonard ended up with jurisdiction over Earthspace. When Carpenter returned to Earthspace, he ended up under UEDF jurisdiction. And while it might be possible that he could have put up an argument to the effect that he was the highest ranking UEEF officer around and didn't have to answer to anyone other than the UEG council, why would he? Emerson was the guy who knew what's going on on Earth; Carpenter was the new arrival who had limited knowledge about the current state of affairs. In a situation like that, a wise commander is going to defer to the guy who's better informed.

[taalismn]

Plus, Carpenter had had his ship blown out from under him, and likely lost most of his crew in the attack on the Motherships...Think he's going to argue who's in charge, once he reaches safe harbor? For all he knew, he was stuck on Earth for the rest of his life(and if the Masters won, that was going to be a short life indeed....).

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

But they are: they're both United Earth Military.

No, the you interpret it there are 2 separate Joint Chiefs of Staff for each service: Army, Air/Space Forces, GMP and Navy. One serves with the REF the other serves on Earth. They have radically different supply systems (thanks to Tommy Yune's retarded SLMH-V). Only a mad man or someone that doesn't grasp even the most basic organization/logistics concepts would create something so bureaucratically unwieldy. There would be so much redtape, it would be a wonder anything could get done. This is like going back to the pre-McNamara era before the Defense Standardization Program.

[Trooper Jim]

If you pay close attention to SG1 you'll notice that the writers held to the current US structure that has the Air Force in command of space operations. Also, you will see that the majority of SG-teams are made up of Air Force personnel not Marines. IIRC, it isn't until the fourth season that we see the formation of the first Marine Corps SG-team.

Actually if you watch the first season of Stargate SG1 the refer to SG3 as a Marine unit. Jack O'Neil even calls then "Jar Heads" on one occasion. And the term Jar Head is used exclusively to refer to Marines. Also you well see an episode where the Marines are wearing their service Alphas. So from day 1 the SGC has had a Marine continent.

[dataweaver]

But they are: they're both United Earth Military.

No, the you interpret it there are 2 separate Joint Chiefs of Staff for each service: Army, Air/Space Forces, GMP and Navy. One serves with the REF the other serves on Earth.

You're saying that you understand the way I interpret it better than I do? I thought you said you couldn't read minds...

The way I interpret it, the overall structure of the UEG's military forces circa 2020 looks something like this:

Army of the Southern Cross (a.k.a. UEDF)
* TASC
* TSC
* TAF
* ATAC
* TC

CDU
CDFC (subordinate to CDU, I think)

Global Military Police

UEEF Spacy
UEEF Marine Corps (subordinate to UEEF Spacy)

There is no "Joint Chiefs of Staff", per se; instead, there's the UEG Leadership Council, which nominally has authority over all aspects of the military. Central command officially sits with the Prime Minister.

After 2022, the structure is the same on paper; but in practice, the stranding of the Pioneer Expedition forces the two sides of the divide to operate independently of each other. In 2031, the Invid destroy the UEG Leadership Council, along with most of the military forces on Earth, leaving the UEEF and its command structure as the last remnant of the UEG.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Likewise, even the scripts that exist for episodes that are canon are inconsistant. Nowhere, at any time, is it stated that Edwards is in command of ASC forces other than here. In all other references he is a colonel in the REF/UEEF.

I take you actually have proof of that? Care to provide it?

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

The way I interpret it, the overall structure of the UEG's military forces circa 2020 looks something like this:

Army of the Southern Cross (a.k.a. UEDF)
* TASC
* TSC
* TAF
* ATAC
* TC

CDU
CDFC (subordinate to CDU, I think)

Global Military Police

UEEF Spacy
UEEF Marine Corps (subordinate to UEEF Spacy)

Except, Ive provided numerous quotes from Robotech that state the REF has Army units as part of its structure. Then there is the line from The Sentinels scripts.

There is no "Joint Chiefs of Staff", per se; instead, there's the UEG Leadership Council, which nominally has authority over all aspects of the military. Central command officially sits with the Prime Minister.

After 2022, the structure is the same on paper; but in practice, the stranding of the Pioneer Expedition forces the two sides of the divide to operate independently of each other.

There was no 'stranding' of the REF. They have numerous spacefold capable ships and FTL-comm routed through Space Station Liberty. Other than lagtime for routing troops and so forth (on the order of months) there would be no logical reason for overall command not to rest solely on Earth. And, since we know the REF has Army troops and the ASC is called The Army of the United Earth Forces, they would be the same Army units part of The Pioneer Mission. About the only difference between them would be a slight uniform difference and body armour (Wolfe utilitarian CBA-2 instead of the more unique Southern Cross-style CBA-2).

Eps. #58 Final Nightmare
Supreme Commander Leonard: General Emerson, I take it you are aware of the fact that the enemy has launched his entire fleet at us?
Emerson: Yes sir.
Leonard: In our meeting this morning, The Joint Chiefs agreed to a pre-emptive strike, but the aliens have beaten us to the punch. Now we mustn't let them get the first blow in.

Unlike the term Chief-of-Staff, which is generic, The Joint Chiefs (unless someone can show me otherwise) would refer to The Joint Chiefs of Staff.

[dataweaver]

The way I interpret it, the overall structure of the UEG's military forces circa 2020 looks something like this:

Army of the Southern Cross (a.k.a. UEDF)
* TASC
* TSC
* TAF
* ATAC
* TC

CDU
CDFC (subordinate to CDU, I think)

Global Military Police

UEEF Spacy
UEEF Marine Corps (subordinate to UEEF Spacy)

Except, Ive provided numerous quotes from Robotech that state the REF has Army units as part of its structure. Then there is the line from The Sentinels scripts.

The Sentinels scripts aren't binding; so the line to which you refer doesn't matter. Beyond that, my interpretation is that the "army units" to which you refer are part of what is officially called the UEEF Marine Corps. True, this doesn't mesh with the nature of the USMC; but we're not talking about the USMC - we're talking about the UEEF MC.

There is no "Joint Chiefs of Staff", per se; instead, there's the UEG Leadership Council, which nominally has authority over all aspects of the military. Central command officially sits with the Prime Minister.

After 2022, the structure is the same on paper; but in practice, the stranding of the Pioneer Expedition forces the two sides of the divide to operate independently of each other.

There was no 'stranding' of the REF.

According to Robotech Art 3, they were stranded. According to the novels, they were stranded. The RPG doesn't speak of it AFAIK, which is why I'm falling back on these other references. (Remember: my interpretation is based on the RPG, which is the subject under discussion.) So which source says that they weren't stranded, and could go home any time they wanted?

Unlike the term Chief-of-Staff, which is generic, The Joint Chiefs (unless someone can show me otherwise) would refer to The Joint Chiefs of Staff.

RPG, remember? Although it is possible that Leonard established a Joint Chiefs for the ASC when he created it. Still, that would be an artifact of the ASC's command structure, a fancy term for "Leonard's top officers".

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

You know what. Your opinion is your opinion. Its not based on anything seen in Robotech, so I don't know why I bother. Nothing I post, whether animated dialogue or not, is going to matter. Whatever.

The simple fact is that the REF is a multi-service Combatant Command made up of units of the Air/Space forces and the Army. Nothing that nimrod Tommy Yune says will change that fact.

[Arnie100]

To quote from the latest press release:

Robotech®: UEEF Marine Sourcebook
Ships September

Jason Marker is writing up a storm for a new Robotech® sourcebook that will open up new realms of adventure and excitement: UEEF Marine Corps.
* UEEF Marine Corps O.C.C. and M.O.S. Skills.
* New weapons.
* New Mecha.
* New Marine Ground Vehicles.
* New Marine Aircraft.
* New Marine specific spacecraft.
* History, training, and organization of the UEEF Marines.
* Cat. No. 553, manga size & format – final page count not yet determined, but we are thinking 128-192 pages, $12.95 retail and a September release.

The NEW mecha part's got me interested!!

[dataweaver]

You know what. Your opinion is your opinion. Its not based on anything seen in Robotech, so I don't know why I bother. Nothing I post, whether animated dialogue or not, is going to matter. Whatever.

Like I said: you and I are working from different core assumptions; and until that difference is resolved, we're going to disagree on a lot of things.

Here's one other area where I suspect that we're going to disagree: I suspect that you're taking the view that if it doesn't conform exactly to the original TV series, it isn't Robotech. My view is that there are a number of "flavors" of Robotech: at a minimum, you have Macek's Robotech ("Classic Robotech"), McKinney's Robotech ("Novelized Robotech"), and Yune's Robotech ("Shadows Robotech"). I suspect that there's also at least one based on the pre-Wildstorm comics, and there's definitely another that's based on the original RPG. The latter ones were inspired by the first one, but differ from it to varying degrees. Each has its pros and cons: for instance, a major pro of Classic Robotech is that it's the origin of all the rest, which carries with it a certain aura of authenticity; a con was that the studio wasn't making the series for rabid fans, and didn't put as much effort as they could have dotting all the i's and crossing the t's. A major pro of the novelized Robotech is that it's more thorough than Classic Robotech; a con is that it gets excessively mystical for my taste at times.

Because of this, I cringe a bit when you say that my opinion isn't based on anything seen in Robotech. It is: but it's based on things seen in Shadows Robotech, not Classic Robotech. Since the roleplaying game is based on (indeed, is part of) Shadows Robotech, I think that this is an entirely appropriate stance to take.

The simple fact is that the REF is a multi-service Combatant Command made up of units of the Air/Space forces and the Army. Nothing that nimrod Tommy Yune says will change that fact.

As far as Classic Robotech goes, your argument makes sense to me. And you're right: nothing that Tommy Yune says will change Classic Robotech.

[Arnie100]

This always happens when someone mentions MARINES...

[dataweaver]

To quote from the latest press release:

Thanks for the quote.

The NEW mecha part's got me interested!!

Yeah; that's always a plus. My favorite part is the "history, training, and organization" bit.

[Arnie100]

I laugh at the September release date (though will be very surprised if it actually does ship out in September)!!

[Shawn Merrow]

This always happens when someone mentions MARINES...

You, should see what happeneds when someone brings up Starfleet Marines on a Star Trek board.

Personally I'm looking forward to the book. They may not be mentioned in the series but I think expanding the setting is a good idea myself.

[dataweaver]

Don't get me started on Star Trek. I developed my "different flavors of..." philosophy during my Trekkie days in order to keep myself sane.

I think that a case could be made that Star Trek: the Next Generation did to Star Trek what Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles is doing to Robotech.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Because of this, I cringe a bit when you say that my opinion isn't based on anything seen in Robotech. It is: but it's based on things seen in Shadows Robotech, not Classic Robotech. Since the roleplaying game is based on (indeed, is part of) Shadows Robotech, I think that this is an entirely appropriate stance to take.

Please point to where it was mentioned in The Shadow Chronicles that the ground forces of the REF are Marines, because it would be news to me. There is nothing stated in the animation that remotely indicates this is the case. Nothing written in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles mentions Marines as being the ground forces of the REF.

[dataweaver]

Well, it is an opinion, rather than a fact - so far. I haven't been arguing that my interpretation is The Way It Shall Be; merely that it's a possible direction that Shadows Robotech might go when it starts fleshing out that part of the setting. For all I know, 2010 will include the release of the "UEEF Army Sourcebook", detailing the personnel, mecha, equipment, history, and organization of the ground forces of the UEEF, and will verify them as being distinct from the UEEF Marine Corps. Heck, it's even possible that such a book will say that the UEEF Army is the part of the ASC that went with the Pioneer Expedition. I don't consider it to be likely; but it is possible.

[Arnie100]

Well, you can't deny the fact that the next book is about MARINES...Just because they're not mentioned in the TV show, doesn't mean they're not there!

[dataweaver]

True. OTOH, I don't think that anyone (RSCF included) has said that they're not there.

Well, there is that guy from a few pages back who was hoping that the only Marines would be cannon fodder security guards. But even that was stating a preference rather than denying their existence.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Well, you can't deny the fact that the next book is about MARINES...Just because they're not mentioned in the TV show, doesn't mean they're not there!

And yet there are people that want to deny that the Army is part of the REF, eventhough its mentioned clearly in the Tv series. They further want to say The Army of the Southern Cross is not part of the REF, eventhough both The Sentinels scripts and novelizations have it so. It would also seem to include ASC mecha/vehicles, eventhough that is refuted by the video, toy faire video, scripts, novelizations and comics.

[dataweaver]

Different flavors...

[Arnie100]

I can accept BOTH an ARMY and MARINES!

[Lt Gargoyle]

To quote from the latest press release:

Robotech®: UEEF Marine Sourcebook
Ships September

The NEW mecha part's got me interested!!

Me Too!!!!

So to change the flow of the posts, What kind of new equipment,mechs,ships do you think we might see in the new book?

I like to see the drop ships from the Shadow chronicles given some stats, for the marines rapid deployment boats.
Some non transformable power armor would be nice. And some new hand held weapons. Energy Rifle with variable designs like the M-16 to modern day marines.

[dataweaver]

To quote from the latest press release:

Robotech®: UEEF Marine Sourcebook
Ships September

The NEW mecha part's got me interested!!

Me Too!!!!

So to change the flow of the posts, What kind of new equipment,mechs,ships do you think we might see in the new book?

I like to see the drop ships from the Shadow chronicles given some stats, for the marines rapid deployment boats.
Some non transformable power armor would be nice. And some new hand held weapons. Energy Rifle with variable designs like the M-16 to modern day marines.

I'd like to see the UEEF's counterpart to the Spartan. Other Destroids would be nice, too.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I guess we're starting to branch into stuff that will be exclusive to the RPG.

Not necessarily. There is still the Griffin Powered Armour and 'Devastator' Cyclone from the Mospeada preproduction as well as the Prototype Cyclone from The Sentinels preproduction to fall back upon. There is even possibly variants of the Alpha based on the Mospeada preproduction that could be utilized. The Horizon-V still needs to be detailed, so its possibly one of the spaceships. There are still a number of designs that could be see detailing without necessarily going into completely uncharted territory.