Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Whether it is a Veritech or a Valkyrie, Robotech or Macross II, Earth is in danger eitherway. Grab your mecha and fight the good fight.

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RiverJack
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

jedi078 wrote:
RiverJack wrote:My bad my comment didnt post, like if I were special force mech pilot and I wanted to go out for a very long time to disrupt my enemys troop mech formations or what ever I would take energy weapons over phys because the payload is near infit. I learn this stuff playing Battle Tech you got to think about what your taken to a fight who your fighting, and for how long.

But if you rely more on energy weapons you run out of juice faster....

The fact is even in Robotech SF troops will just most likley go in light (no mecha) and laze targets for the ships in orbit or VT's to blow away. Or maybe they sneak a SADM into an Invid hive.


Well what I have been trying to say has be lost. When I said that the Navy should have Seal like Mecha teams I didnt mean The S.E.A.L.s them selves. There are alot of missions that you would want a specialized Mech team over a special forces team and vicversa of course.

Ways you can use them stealth like is have your team travel underwater (Why i tHink there should be Navy destroid pilots) in the Blue and Brown waters. You want see or hear them comming and most the time want think to look for them under water. Ships are also very vun underwater. Heck maby those old destroids from world book 8 would fit them well like the Crusader and the Gladious one with holographic stealth abilitys and the other with its close range weapons and super ecm missiles.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

RiverJack wrote:
jedi078 wrote:
RiverJack wrote:My bad my comment didnt post, like if I were special force mech pilot and I wanted to go out for a very long time to disrupt my enemys troop mech formations or what ever I would take energy weapons over phys because the payload is near infit. I learn this stuff playing Battle Tech you got to think about what your taken to a fight who your fighting, and for how long.

But if you rely more on energy weapons you run out of juice faster....

And I forgot to point out that the energy weapons on atleast the older destroids can fire there energy weapons for 20 years! Maybe the REF ones as well except the Condor.
20years for energy weapons-20min for phy weapons, I would pick Energy hands down.

One other thing you would have to consider is ammo explosions too. I guess the can put it in the RoboTech of Rifts rpg because it would turn RoboTech into Battletech.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Good points Gryphon. I try not to change the Mecha and stats to much, i like to use them how they are. I have reintroduced some of the other mecha removed from the new books. But I have not changed them to much.

But that is how I see my special forces being. Self reliant and force to make do with what they have.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

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INteresting ideas. Sorry it's going to take awhile to digest this. I'll have to post more thoughts after I have more sleep.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

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Gryphon wrote:Why for you think 20+ tom walking mecha will not be heardeded under the waters?!

No, seriously, think about it, most enemies do understand hydrophonic technologies, possible the Invid excepted, except we can clearly see that they have augmented audio, so even that isn't a guarantee. These things make tremendous noise. Honestly, if you want and sort of special operative, you turn to Mil Spec, Mil Int, Urban Spec, Cyclone Rider, or FF/Merc. And you arm them appropriately. No PC weapons clearly, but I actually had a group that went out of the way to be proficient with projectile weapons, stockpiled ASC weapons, Cobalt explosives, and even a handful of SKINCs (Sub-Kiloton Nuclear Charges, basically not too dissimilar to a Rifts Earth Fusion Block honestly.) I even had a group of them accept a challenge from a S5 Invid Solugi (Terms might have changed, the human ones like Ariel, Corg and Sera) who had turned free thinker. He, two others, and four PCs literally climbed up the leg of a stilt hive in sneak-suits, taking literally HOURS to make the trip, and infiltrated teh hive. They sneaked into the core of the hive, planted the SKINCs, and then proceeded to sneak back out, with the bombs ON TIMERS, they were so certain they wouldn't get caught. And they didn't, the Invid simply weren't used to this sort of approach. The made it down, and ex-filtrated through patrols, sensors, and buried Invid, and at exactly 6:14 (sunrise) the next morning, the whole thing blew up. I point this out as an example, mecha are normally the answer to everything, but if enough planning, and sheer brass ones, exist, a more or less SF approach is possible. Difficult, and only done my mature players, but possible. (This entire episode was triggered by my players bragging in front of an allied Invid that they would take a hive out without mecha, and he screwed up and got himself and two others tossed into the mix.)

This same approach is possible with rogue elements, Zentraedi, and the EBSIS if you keep them in your world. The last might be better prepared, but it is clearly possible. The only ones who are seriously resistant are teh Masters, primarily because of their weird, well monitored vessels. I do realize a certain need for special operative mecha pilots, but honestly, if you end up with a typical group (2 VFP, 1 Dest, 1 MilSPEC, 1 MIL INT, 1 Field Sci, 1 FF/MERC, and at least once no VFP, instead an ATAC jockey and a ASC HC type. This was typical, drove me nuts for about 2 months till i got my head around the concept), then you already have a pre-made trouble shooting squad, assuming your players are smart, mature, and willing to attempt anything they can to succeed in leaving the GM a gaping idiot. I am proud to admit it happened quite often after about 6-7 months, they were learning, brought a tear to my eye I tell you. And I am no moron, they simpyl started thinking outside teh box, and learned what would and wouldn't work, with only 3 casualties for pure stupidity, and one massive act of insane but fairly necessary fatal bravery, gave his next character a level up for that one, starting him at the same level as the rest basically.

Do you really need a specialized corp of operatives? No. Should you have one? Up to you, but the players tend to fill this role really well, at least in my experience as a GM, and my game ran for nearly a 6 years, and i was FORCED to bring the world to a close when I got home from the Army on leave, so I consider it a rousing success. Your mileage may vary though.

(You know what? I "talk" too much!)


Yes some of it is a good point but what I ment was that targets on land wouldnt hear mecha submerged I dont think most human targets affter the Death Rain would have the money or time to put ears back in the water. It could be said too that Navalized Destroids could have underwater propulsion systems simular too there space jet packs. Now its up to debate if it would still be noisey would be quite like the red October or would be noise but unidentifyable. The HoloGram camo out in to open would fail except maybe against 3rd world infantry. It would work if it is used in heavy cover not water though if you remember rules, but Prob still not against masters.

Now the Mech that would be but for this group would be the Gladious with those missiles I mentioned before. Just have them go in covert wait for the enemy at ist most vulnerable and lauch those missles... even if the Ecm pluses dont work all target in the blast radious are blinded by a green gas cloud full of energy surges. Not mention that they do have mecha sized c.a.d.s. XD Man I love RoboTech I dont know were I would be without Palladium... prob lossing brain cells playing d&d 4th ed lol =]
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

RiverJack wrote:Yes some of it is a good point but what I ment was that targets on land wouldnt hear mecha submerged I dont think most human targets affter the Death Rain would have the money or time to put ears back in the water. It could be said too that Navalized Destroids could have underwater propulsion systems simular too there space jet packs. Now its up to debate if it would still be noisey would be quite like the red October or would be noise but unidentifyable. The HoloGram camo out in to open would fail except maybe against 3rd world infantry. It would work if it is used in heavy cover not water though if you remember rules, but Prob still not against masters.

Now the Mech that would be but for this group would be the Gladious with those missiles I mentioned before. Just have them go in covert wait for the enemy at ist most vulnerable and lauch those missles... even if the Ecm pluses dont work all target in the blast radious are blinded by a green gas cloud full of energy surges. Not mention that they do have mecha sized c.a.d.s. XD Man I love RoboTech I dont know were I would be without Palladium... prob lossing brain cells playing d&d 4th ed lol =]



Actually the UEG put ears back into the water, this is why they have the Navy units in the ASC. And while it is possible for mecha that was designed for the sea to be manufactored. I think in the begining they would just use what they had.

Destroids would not be able to move through the water silently like the red october which was designed to do it with special engines. And sonar would also detect them.

The Invid also use the water as Camouflage to hide in and they would be more likely to be able to find the enemy before they themselves could be seen. And they also have the numbers on their side. Once a enemy is detected they would send reinforcements till they were hunted down and killed.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

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Lt Gargoyle wrote:
RiverJack wrote:Yes some of it is a good point but what I ment was that targets on land wouldnt hear mecha submerged I dont think most human targets affter the Death Rain would have the money or time to put ears back in the water. It could be said too that Navalized Destroids could have underwater propulsion systems simular too there space jet packs. Now its up to debate if it would still be noisey would be quite like the red October or would be noise but unidentifyable. The HoloGram camo out in to open would fail except maybe against 3rd world infantry. It would work if it is used in heavy cover not water though if you remember rules, but Prob still not against masters.

Now the Mech that would be but for this group would be the Gladious with those missiles I mentioned before. Just have them go in covert wait for the enemy at ist most vulnerable and lauch those missles... even if the Ecm pluses dont work all target in the blast radious are blinded by a green gas cloud full of energy surges. Not mention that they do have mecha sized c.a.d.s. XD Man I love RoboTech I dont know were I would be without Palladium... prob lossing brain cells playing d&d 4th ed lol =]



Actually the UEG put ears back into the water, this is why they have the Navy units in the ASC. And while it is possible for mecha that was designed for the sea to be manufactored. I think in the begining they would just use what they had.

Destroids would not be able to move through the water silently like the red october which was designed to do it with special engines. And sonar would also detect them.

The Invid also use the water as Camouflage to hide in and they would be more likely to be able to find the enemy before they themselves could be seen. And they also have the numbers on their side. Once a enemy is detected they would send reinforcements till they were hunted down and killed.



Yes the UEG put ears in the water nothing said all the small counrtys and E.B.S.I.S. did, nothing is known about the A.U.L. really. If you read the RDF manual 2nd book I think one of the scientist main characters was working on under water propulsion that could have been silent I dont remember.

Sonar will detect them if its passive sonar it will only have like a 30% chance of hearing them. Active Sonar will alert the Mecha pilots that someone is using sonar and avoid them. As long as its at far distance Now this could be a good time and rout to make new source material and game rules but It could be posable in and emergancy to develop counter measures and manuvers to avoid the detection.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan »

Lt Gargoyle wrote:Actually the UEG put ears back into the water, this is why they have the Navy units in the ASC. And while it is possible for mecha that was designed for the sea to be manufactored. I think in the begining they would just use what they had.


Well, we know the UEG Navy still existed simply because of the Sea Squad Commandoes (as seen in the lineup in Dana's Story) as well as the Navy Patrol Boats and Cutter that Scott and crew came across in Metamorphosis. Its likely they still had the Prometheus & Daedalus-class ships in service. As for mecha, they would have 2, 1 Powered Armour (Kraken) and 1 Battloid (Triton).
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

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Gryphon wrote:To Riverjack…

How about Zentraedi warships being used as submarines? Is it likely they would add some sort of passive sonar system, if only for navigation?


I think that they would prob detect each other on acount of the sound of the Zentraedi warships enigeens IM not sure how well the ship would be able to detect Destroids with passive sonar, Iv red its good for navigation but I also know its not that good to use in combat unless they them selfs are trying to be undetected. Active Sonar every one using passive and reg will hear you but it would be 100% effective.

Also, isn’t the Theater Recon Scout craft (not the pod, the big one) equipped with Sonar and seismic sensors?
No it doesnt have ether systems, but it is also said in its pro that it can be heard under water for hundreds of miles! Im guessing that the Navy crew may detect the Recon Scout before it would.


The holo-camouflage was a good idea, but just how effective would it be on a mecha that is apt to generate fairly significant waste heat…unless there are heat sinks of some sort that could compensate maybe?

Well in the rules heat is a prob so is radar sonar 1-76% chance of seeing threw with, thermal infrared, instant detect with the radar sonar if moving fast or crusing speed. It says in the rules that it can move slowly or not at all and shouldnt be detected by the later. Oh and it takes 30min to cool down. I would say even shorter time if it just came out of the sea or river. After cooling down (exscluding radar sonar) the destroid has a save of 98% against all other detection devices.


And with the new way of doing things, the holo-system might work against any thing except the sensor based scout Bioroid with relative effectiveness, but it wouldn’t take the masters long to adapt if it was something they kept running into.


Now whats intresting about the hologram that I forgot about is that it can also be used to make the mech look like other Mecha. So lets say you were a Navy Destroid pilot you were going to go take out a Russian Naval ship yard that has been attacking UEG shiping lines, that team could just make there mecha look like Russian Batteloids, or whatever type was right to pick. they can also make them selfs look like weaker or more powerful mecha too.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
Lt Gargoyle wrote:Actually the UEG put ears back into the water, this is why they have the Navy units in the ASC. And while it is possible for mecha that was designed for the sea to be manufactored. I think in the begining they would just use what they had.


Well, we know the UEG Navy still existed simply because of the Sea Squad Commandoes (as seen in the lineup in Dana's Story) as well as the Navy Patrol Boats and Cutter that Scott and crew came across in Metamorphosis. Its likely they still had the Prometheus & Daedalus-class ships in service. As for mecha, they would have 2, 1 Powered Armour (Kraken) and 1 Battloid (Triton).


I would give them the Daedulus and Prometheus as well when I play that era. I have not gotten to the Kraken and Triton in the book yet. As I am working on a Shadow Chronicles game and only have allowed the hover tank into it. (I still Use the novels for most of my Pioneer history.)

To Riverjack:

I do not see Destroids as transforming in the slightest. Even underwater. As for the technology of the other countrys I think they would invest some on costal defense. After all they do not want rogue Zentraedi popping up from the sea.

While I will keep the EBSIS and the AUL in my own campaigns as I see them as the perfect challange for the ASC when not fighting Masters. As for the level of technology, I leave that to the GMs and thier campaign. After all it is a great plot devise if you can not find the AUL using a beat up Zentraedi Scout ship as a base in the sea. However When it gets close to the surface it takes a chance that the Invid and others will detect them.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

I do not see Destroids as transforming in the slightest. Even underwater. As for the technology of the other countrys I think they would invest some on costal defense. After all they do not want rogue Zentraedi popping up from the sea.

What I described is the rules for the hologram camo in Campaign book 8
I didnt make it up its all up to the gm if they have the older books to use them which I think the gm should because now there are hardly any Destroids now in the future all they have is Condor and Bioroid Interceptor. I love the Bioroid Interceptor its a Invid Fighter, Raidar X, and Veritech Fighter rolled into one, while the Condor is the Red shirt of Star Trek. If I were human I would refuse to use that piece of junk and use the Interceptor.


Now for the Costal defense it is ture that all countrys have it but all you have to do is just jam coms in that area and just blow it to heck. And dont forget even the UEG was ambushed by submerged Battle Pods near the end of the Macross series when Khyron goes to get the Matrix. That proves to me that there are effective ways of using Navalized destroids in brown and blue water operations. If it were not a good tactic then the Zentradie and the Invid would not use subed mecha.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

RiverJack wrote:I do not see Destroids as transforming in the slightest. Even underwater. As for the technology of the other countrys I think they would invest some on costal defense. After all they do not want rogue Zentraedi popping up from the sea.

What I described is the rules for the hologram camo in Campaign book 8
I didnt make it up its all up to the gm if they have the older books to use them which I think the gm should because now there are hardly any Destroids now in the future all they have is Condor and Bioroid Interceptor. I love the Bioroid Interceptor its a Invid Fighter, Raidar X, and Veritech Fighter rolled into one, while the Condor is the Red shirt of Star Trek. If I were human I would refuse to use that piece of junk and use the Interceptor.


Now for the Costal defense it is ture that all countrys have it but all you have to do is just jam coms in that area and just blow it to heck. And dont forget even the UEG was ambushed by submerged Battle Pods near the end of the Macross series when Khyron goes to get the Matrix. That proves to me that there are effective ways of using Navalized destroids in brown and blue water operations. If it were not a good tactic then the Zentradie and the Invid would not use subed mecha.



well some of the mecha from strike force was stupid looking, born from a lack of resources to repair the existing mecha, at least that how i would use it. And i am not saying underwater ambushes are not effective. But if that is how you attack each time you are going to find the tactic uneffective very shortly.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

Lt Gargoyle wrote:
RiverJack wrote:I do not see Destroids as transforming in the slightest. Even underwater. As for the technology of the other countrys I think they would invest some on costal defense. After all they do not want rogue Zentraedi popping up from the sea.

What I described is the rules for the hologram camo in Campaign book 8
I didnt make it up its all up to the gm if they have the older books to use them which I think the gm should because now there are hardly any Destroids now in the future all they have is Condor and Bioroid Interceptor. I love the Bioroid Interceptor its a Invid Fighter, Raidar X, and Veritech Fighter rolled into one, while the Condor is the Red shirt of Star Trek. If I were human I would refuse to use that piece of junk and use the Interceptor.


Now for the Costal defense it is ture that all countrys have it but all you have to do is just jam coms in that area and just blow it to heck. And dont forget even the UEG was ambushed by submerged Battle Pods near the end of the Macross series when Khyron goes to get the Matrix. That proves to me that there are effective ways of using Navalized destroids in brown and blue water operations. If it were not a good tactic then the Zentradie and the Invid would not use subed mecha.



well some of the mecha from strike force was stupid looking, born from a lack of resources to repair the existing mecha, at least that how i would use it. And i am not saying underwater ambushes are not effective. But if that is how you attack each time you are going to find the tactic uneffective very shortly.


Yes that could be said about all tactics though. There are many other things Navalized destroids could do though. IM guessing you have also read RoboTech Book 7 New World Order tied for best rpg book ever for me at least. Destroids are tasked with patroiling the red sea and protecting the oil platforms from mostly the Russians. You also prob know that the underside of any sea naval ship is the most vunrable spot that can be damaged. Damage that spot and you break the ship in half.

Imagine if the Navy made so other modfications to these mech like instead of missile launchers it had torpedio launchers and Limpit mine despesers. The destroid could conseviely dig into the bottom to blend into the terrain, so if the enemy was using sonar it would not suspect that there are destroids down bellow them. it could just torp it right there or... attack the limpit mine to the bottom with a timed charge that would go off long after leaveing the area (or anytime the user wishes) so not to be able to gauge what happend to the ship.

I would have to coin that tactic as Squiding, they dig into the dirt to ambush its pray above it.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

RiverJack wrote:Yes that could be said about all tactics though. There are many other things Navalized destroids could do though. IM guessing you have also read RoboTech Book 7 New World Order tied for best rpg book ever for me at least. Destroids are tasked with patroiling the red sea and protecting the oil platforms from mostly the Russians. You also prob know that the underside of any sea naval ship is the most vunrable spot that can be damaged. Damage that spot and you break the ship in half.

Imagine if the Navy made so other modfications to these mech like instead of missile launchers it had torpedio launchers and Limpit mine despesers. The destroid could conseviely dig into the bottom to blend into the terrain, so if the enemy was using sonar it would not suspect that there are destroids down bellow them. it could just torp it right there or... attack the limpit mine to the bottom with a timed charge that would go off long after leaveing the area (or anytime the user wishes) so not to be able to gauge what happend to the ship.

I would have to coin that tactic as Squiding, they dig into the dirt to ambush its pray above it.



You are correct the undersides of the ships would be thier primary weakness. The problem with destroid under water like this is they are slow and their movement would be noticed. I do not think destroids are the way to go in this method. I would use a modified veritech, with torpedos on its hard points to deal with possible opponents.

The problem with having your humans dig into the ground and hiding they are not like Invid who live in thier mecha. they will need to move and in time resupply themselves.

I do have new world order book 7, and while i like the some of the intrigue and plots . However the land carrier seemed a waste of paper to me. Never used it and have no plans on trying to resurrect it in my campaigns.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by avollant »

I have a question; Does anyone know if the ARMD Class could make a trip to Mars or they were just limited to the Earth-Moon system?
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

avollant wrote:I have a question; Does anyone know if the ARMD Class could make a trip to Mars or they were just limited to the Earth-Moon system?


Yes, the ARMD Class could make a trip to Mars under the RT 2nd ed books. However, it seams that they would be limited to the basic crew complement, being used as a cargo ship w/o its fighter wing, to have the life support consumables to get there and back.
(didn't do the Math, so if any of you want to....)
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Chris0013 »

always liked the ARMD....would have been great to extrapolate it into a ship that could perform fold and sublight speeds as opposed to just the several times the speed of sound....

It has a great look and can carry a ship-load of fighters.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

Lt Gargoyle wrote:
RiverJack wrote:
You are correct the undersides of the ships would be thier primary weakness. The problem with destroid under water like this is they are slow and their movement would be noticed. I do not think destroids are the way to go in this method. I would use a modified veritech, with torpedos on its hard points to deal with possible opponents.

The problem with having your humans dig into the ground and hiding they are not like Invid who live in thier mecha. they will need to move and in time resupply themselves.


I would still have to go destroids because they mostly can carry more fire power exluding super and armored add ons. The Navy could in use the expoler craft (I forget ist name the one that can be used in space and the ocean) rig it to carry more ammo food and supplys down to the pilot. Maybe even a releaf pilot. IM guessing that any destroid pilot that would do these operations would have a higher mental stan, simular to a Submariners because of time they would have to stay underwater in an inclosed space. In most cases I would see my tactic as more of a defesive one that would have the destoids deploy close to there naval base or ship. If it were a base they could have hardend areas for the mecha to hid in underneath shiping lanes waiting for Naval full scale war to defending agianst pirates.

I do have new world order book 7, and while i like the some of the intrigue and plots . However the land carrier seemed a waste of paper to me. Never used it and have no plans on trying to resurrect it in my campaigns.


Yeah the only thing good about the carrier WAS that at the time it could out range the guns and cannons of all mecha. You have to take in mind that Gen Zuu Was prob crazy like Docter Evil, and when I say that I dont mean dorky I mean like he was dangerous but he was to in love with him self (thats why the land ship is named after him) If he had had the chance he prob would have named SDF-1,2,3 the Zuu,1,2,3 lol

My other tied for fav would be book 6 the return of the Masters. Love it love it love it. Praise the Lord for Robotech and Palladium! Man that is a good story I love how the whole time one Masters Mother ship stayed hidden during the Invid invasion. And was waiting to hook up with the Super Robotech factory.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

RiverJack wrote:Yeah the only thing good about the carrier WAS that at the time it could out range the guns and cannons of all mecha. You have to take in mind that Gen Zuu Was prob crazy like Docter Evil, and when I say that I dont mean dorky I mean like he was dangerous but he was to in love with him self (thats why the land ship is named after him) If he had had the chance he prob would have named SDF-1,2,3 the Zuu,1,2,3 lol

My other tied for fav would be book 6 the return of the Masters. Love it love it love it. Praise the Lord for Robotech and Palladium! Man that is a good story I love how the whole time one Masters Mother ship stayed hidden during the Invid invasion. And was waiting to hook up with the Super Robotech factory.


I have both Return of the Masters and I love them myself. I think it was one of the best supplement books Palladium ever put out. And i agree with you on the plot with the masters.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

Lt Gargoyle wrote:
RiverJack wrote:Yeah the only thing good about the carrier WAS that at the time it could out range the guns and cannons of all mecha. You have to take in mind that Gen Zuu Was prob crazy like Docter Evil, and when I say that I dont mean dorky I mean like he was dangerous but he was to in love with him self (thats why the land ship is named after him) If he had had the chance he prob would have named SDF-1,2,3 the Zuu,1,2,3 lol

My other tied for fav would be book 6 the return of the Masters. Love it love it love it. Praise the Lord for Robotech and Palladium! Man that is a good story I love how the whole time one Masters Mother ship stayed hidden during the Invid invasion. And was waiting to hook up with the Super Robotech factory.


I have both Return of the Masters and I love them myself. I think it was one of the best supplement books Palladium ever put out. And i agree with you on the plot with the masters.


Sorry for taking so long to respond. It is the best I love the New Bioroids and the story. I wonder what it would take to make the stuff in the rpg books cannon. I think it would be a kindful nod to the rpgers if Harmony Gold had stuff from the rpgs and put them in there new stuff I dont care how even if they were only put in the back ground!
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

I have also thought of something to add to Naval tactics that Destroid Pilots would use in story and in game.

1. This is a no brainer usually it would be wise to use Nuclear Subs to deploy tacticle Nukes or I guess at this time Reflex missiles, but what if Enemy fleets were on the hunt for your subs and other ships? It seem logical in some ways that a smaller team of Navalized Destroids with 1-3 Spartans/Phalanx and an escort of Excalibur/Tomahawks, Gladiators/Spartans, with a few Raidar Xs/Defenders for speciality reasons Ill get to later.

Just get those Spartans/Phalanx up to there Max range they would need to launch those Reflex missiles at there target from the ocean. Obviously this mission would only be used in an all out war of destruction at least usually. And at the same time this manuver can be used as a distraction for another strike force of Mecha, Naval ships brown, blue, Spacey, or anything else that would be more tactical sound. Or a double whamy Maybe whole teams of Mecha ships and the like are out to kill the E.B.S.I.S., A.U.L. who ever and they are attacking on allsides to make sure they are blasted into the next worldm the enemy may have super effective A.A. or Anti Missile systems and would be overwhelmed by so many Missiles coming at them.

2 Beach landings also a no brainer but there can be many diffrent ways of doing it. I see the Raidar X /Defender being a key part to the operation. Naturally if you have a mixed Destroid unit the Raidar X would make the best Unit to use for the Commander of the squad because of its Targeting computer, and radar systems. it also makes a fantastic sniper.

Now I know that there are Raidar Xs/Defenders with Laser Cannon arms there is no way around that, look at some of the animation of them shooting and they cut threw things like lasers do (the episode that has the Raidar X board Breetais ship threw the Daedalus, the Final attack of Khyron, RoboTech Battle Cry lists the ones in it as having Lasers)

For optional rules the Laser Cannons can be set to a diffrent mode that shots an intense flash of light that burns out all optical sensors and blinds all beings that wittnes the flash ( you can deside if it can shot this beam in the water to the serfice and have it work or not.) It would prob work best at night right at the edge of the shore after fireing have the heavyer infantry Destroids go up the beach followed by Raidar X/Defenders so the can cover the air and long range targets while being protected by the closer ranged Destroids. And then followed by the the Artillery Destroids.

Here is an optional tactic and optional use ammo for the 78mm Auto Cannon Raidar X/ Defender. This is inspired by WWII Navy tactics used in the Pacific. Under Water by the shore the Raidar X/ Defender can use its Air Burst rounds to shower all beach shore defenders, and emplacements with sharpnel, ether wiping the enemy out or giving the rest of the Destroids enough distraction that will allow them a good advantage against the defenders. (posable give the destroids an instant first strike and the defenders have to take a panic test) I am not sure if reg rounds even 78mm would have the strength to leave the Water so in that case give the Raidar X/ Defender this ammo

78mm rocket propelled beach buster rounds. The have the same rules as Air Burst rounds but are made for Under Water to surface operations. If it is used on land against land targets it is minus -7 to hit with this round but targets hit by it will take x2 damage if a crit hit.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

Except everything you just listed is currently within the capabilities of unmodified Destroids. They can travel in space, and last we knew before PB's reboot had a crush depth of something like 1/2, so a modified version is totally unneeded.


Sorry it took me awhile to get back on. Yes and No there are other missions that a enhanced Destroid would be need like DEEP DEEP sea exploreration. When I say Navalized Destroids I mean Destroids piloted by the Navy I have been playing a continual Robotech rpg for 10-12 years and most of the team was Navy now with what has been writen only Army and Marines can use Destroids I feel like we have all been playing a lye. And IM trying to come up with reasons the Navy would use Destroids as well as Marines and Army.

More than that, if there are UN Navy ships, there are UN Navy subs, and if they have a few dozen VLS cruise missile tubes they can do the job faster, safer and from farther away. Also, while the arrival of the entire Zentraedi Armada was certainly reason enough to pitch thousands of Reflex Reaction warheads into Destroids, the same claim can't be made under nearly any other circumstances, so it is highly unlikely you will see multiple teams carrying these things. For that sort of job you call in a strike from space, and baring that, you have an airwing of VF-1 fighters escort a strike into range. The strike wouldn't even have to be a VF, it could be a conventional aircraft.


Well the way I see it you are correct the ships them selfs can carry more heck they can carry the Destroids with the cruise missiles. That is why I think that the ships them selfs will not be 100% effective... The E.B.S.I.S. A.U.L. and other countrys, that have a fleet, will send there ships to kill the R.D.F.s ships, even use Anti Missiles units to counter crusise missiles. It would be super Ironic if the R.D.F.s cruise missiles were intercepted by a refurb F-14 from another country.

The way I see it it would be tactical sound to drop off teams of Destroids under water to get into good firing zones to hit enemy targets with Missile spam. Having all the ships and Mecha firing all there missiles (Wars that are Wars of annihilation) Will reduce the chance of having toomany missiles intercepted if the missiles are raining in on the target from mutli direction. If the Enemy Navies are busy trying to blockade and intercept R.D.F. ships they may over look the destroids below.


The concept of a blinding beam is reasonable, but the interface between water and air would make this trick usable at only the closest of ranges. Also, modern weapons are even now evolving to be defended against such attacks, and a Zentraedi us 100 times as resilient as a human is, so such an attack would have minimal effect on them, similar to having a bright flashlight go off in your eyes, they would maybe be dazzled for a few moments (1 melee) on a failed save of some sort, but permanent damage is extremely unlikely. Modern mecha would all be largely immune to the effect; their optics would already be hardened from such an effect, simply by virtue of being designed after lasers started becoming a common battlefield weapon. The US army has already made it standard issue to hand out moderately effective shades to their soldiers going overseas to a combat zone, both to prevent glare blindness form the sun and irritation of the eyeballs from the sand and such, but these same shades are moderately effective at protecting the human eyeball form a modern laser aiming module. This trend won't reverse, it will accelerate when these weapons become standard issue to nearly anyone's army. It is cheaper to issue a basic preventative to blinding then it is to issue the weapons so used in the first place.


Yes but who wares shades at night besides Corey Hart lol Power armor and stuff like that might be safe but the ground infant and other technicians prob dont. Protective eye wear will evolve but that does not mean that flashlasers wount be made to over power them. At the same time it might take a full strength Weapons grade laser to do it and youd be better off just burning his head off.

I also have no problem with using 78mm AHEAD rounds to saturate a section of beach with flak, especially since these 78mm rounds don't sound all that different from 76mm OTO-Melera weapons systems of today. I would recommend they be fire above water all the same, as the main concern here is that the barrels would be filled with water this could be overcome with some sort of positive pressure system, but that would result in a sudden proliferation of bubbles, not exactly conducive to surprise operations I would guess. Also your basic idea of a first strike isn't quite the effect you are looking for, as this tactic would make few if any kills, and would stop only a limited number of opponents from returning fire. What it would accomplish is it would keep anything but tunnels from allowing the enemy to redeploy once they realize where the attack is. As the one choosing where to assault, you can mass your troops, while a defender needs at least a modest trip line to slow them until reinforcements can arrive. This tactic would make it very difficult to reinforce a defensive position, so any casualties inflicted would count towards the enemy’s route chance a great deal more than in most situations. Granted, any casualties you do inflict are just really yummy icing on the cake.


There shelling isnt meant to kill the enemy on beach more or less rather to distract them. And to give the others the surpise and advantage they need to take the beach allowing the Excalibur to deal with the Armor and the Gladiators to deal with light armor and infantry The Raidar X should target air and communication units/systems as well as dug in def weapons positions and units until the Excalibur Gladiatior and Spartan are in good condition to make the attack. after that the bases them selfs like the personal areas and the command center if it isnt already destroyed.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Chris0013 »

RiverJack wrote:
Except everything you just listed is currently within the capabilities of unmodified Destroids. They can travel in space, and last we knew before PB's reboot had a crush depth of something like 1/2, so a modified version is totally unneeded.


Sorry it took me awhile to get back on. Yes and No there are other missions that a enhanced Destroid would be need like DEEP DEEP sea exploreration. When I say Navalized Destroids I mean Destroids piloted by the Navy I have been playing a continual Robotech rpg for 10-12 years and most of the team was Navy now with what has been writen only Army and Marines can use Destroids I feel like we have all been playing a lye. And IM trying to come up with reasons the Navy would use Destroids as well as Marines and Army.


Just because the Destroids are primarily Army / Marine units does not mean the Navy / Air Force / Spacy would not have units of their own for base defense duties. They just might have been at the bottom of the list for assignment of units....possibly even having Grey/blue color schemes for the Navy mecha.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by jedi078 »

Chris0013 wrote:Just because the Destroids are primarily Army / Marine units does not mean the Navy / Air Force / Spacy would not have units of their own for base defense duties. They just might have been at the bottom of the list for assignment of units....possibly even having Grey/blue color schemes for the Navy mecha.


To add to this the number of Navy / Air Force / Spacy Destroid pilots and units would be very low, and the MOS's be more of a defensive nature. Of course the Battloid Ace MOS's in the TSC book don't really work for the Macross era.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Chris0013 »

jedi078 wrote:
Chris0013 wrote:Just because the Destroids are primarily Army / Marine units does not mean the Navy / Air Force / Spacy would not have units of their own for base defense duties. They just might have been at the bottom of the list for assignment of units....possibly even having Grey/blue color schemes for the Navy mecha.


To add to this the number of Navy / Air Force / Spacy Destroid pilots and units would be very low, and the MOS's be more of a defensive nature. Of course the Battloid Ace MOS's in the TSC book don't really work for the Macross era.


Not saying they will necessarily have whole divisions of the things...but definately have units assigned and personnel trained in "shore patrol" units for security detail...as well some Naval special warfare units.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by RiverJack »

Chris0013 wrote:
jedi078 wrote:
Chris0013 wrote:Just because the Destroids are primarily Army / Marine units does not mean the Navy / Air Force / Spacy would not have units of their own for base defense duties. They just might have been at the bottom of the list for assignment of units....possibly even having Grey/blue color schemes for the Navy mecha.


To add to this the number of Navy / Air Force / Spacy Destroid pilots and units would be very low, and the MOS's be more of a defensive nature. Of course the Battloid Ace MOS's in the TSC book don't really work for the Macross era.


Not saying they will necessarily have whole divisions of the things...but definately have units assigned and personnel trained in "shore patrol" units for security detail...as well some Naval special warfare units.



I also think that there should be squdrons of them on the Naval ships too, I also think that Spacey is the Navy right? Other wise the Marines wouldnt be invlolved with the space ships too.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Treefrog »

Is there a prospective date for the release of this book?
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Treefrog wrote:Is there a prospective date for the release of this book?

x-mass 09 :P

you'd need to look through the recent press releases to get the current aprox. publishing date.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Treefrog »

What is the release date now?
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Treefrog »

Citizen Lazlo wrote:
Treefrog wrote:What is the release date now?


No release date, and considering that the only book being actively pushed is New Generation I would consider the book effectively dead or on indefinite hold.


Darnit, I was really looking forward to it.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Tiree »

The Spaceship Book was one of Marker's pet project. So unless someone wants to pick it up, also as a priority, I doubt that it will be made. We are probably going to be lucky to have some spaceships added to new books.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Treefrog »

Tiree wrote:The Spaceship Book was one of Marker's pet project. So unless someone wants to pick it up, also as a priority, I doubt that it will be made. We are probably going to be lucky to have some spaceships added to new books.


What happened to Marker, that it wouldn't be finished?
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Tiree »

Treefrog wrote:
Tiree wrote:The Spaceship Book was one of Marker's pet project. So unless someone wants to pick it up, also as a priority, I doubt that it will be made. We are probably going to be lucky to have some spaceships added to new books.


What happened to Marker, that it wouldn't be finished?

Didn't you get the Memo? He was laid off, and then decided to find work elsewhere, instead of waiting to see if Palladium would rehire him. He is now working on the Warhammer40k line I believe.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by neuronphaser »

Tiree wrote:
Treefrog wrote:
Tiree wrote:The Spaceship Book was one of Marker's pet project. So unless someone wants to pick it up, also as a priority, I doubt that it will be made. We are probably going to be lucky to have some spaceships added to new books.


What happened to Marker, that it wouldn't be finished?

Didn't you get the Memo? He was laid off, and then decided to find work elsewhere, instead of waiting to see if Palladium would rehire him. He is now working on the Warhammer40k line I believe.


Dammit! Marker's work on Robotech has been nothing short of stellar.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Tiree »

neuronphaser wrote:
Tiree wrote:
Treefrog wrote:
Tiree wrote:The Spaceship Book was one of Marker's pet project. So unless someone wants to pick it up, also as a priority, I doubt that it will be made. We are probably going to be lucky to have some spaceships added to new books.


What happened to Marker, that it wouldn't be finished?

Didn't you get the Memo? He was laid off, and then decided to find work elsewhere, instead of waiting to see if Palladium would rehire him. He is now working on the Warhammer40k line I believe.


Dammit! Marker's work on Robotech has been nothing short of stellar.

I agree that Marker's work was what kept the RT Line moving. In fact, before he was laid off he turned in the manuscript for the Marines Sourcebook. But that looks like it needs some rewrites, either because HG requires it, or the big Man does.

I have to admit, I tried to get Marker to write the New Gen book first, but he had a hankering for the Marine Book.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Jerell »

Grrrr. I would really like to see a spaceship book, and sometime this year.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

would be nice
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by ScottBernard »

Wow, almost 3 years since this was first mentioned.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Tiree »

ScottBernard wrote:Wow, almost 3 years since this was first mentioned.

And will never see the light of day!
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

I could toss a manuscript together in a few weeks, but they aren't accepting Manuscripts for Robotech.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Colonel Wolfe wrote:I could toss a manuscript together in a few weeks, but they aren't accepting Manuscripts for Robotech.



thats to bad. because it would be nice to have this book.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

The Space Ship book isn't terribly hard, most of the Canon info is posted on Robotech.com, it need fluff text and Hg approved design info and such, but the in house guy who would have done it now pumps out tons of books for FFG.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Tiree »

Yeah. He is making a name for himself as a starship guy. I'm sure he'll end up working on the new Star Wars line at somepoint.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

well I am glad he is. and i hope he does get the star wars line as well.

I was just really excited for this book. unlike any before or sence the revised return of the masters.

i know colonel wolfe.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

Lt Gargoyle wrote: i know colonel wolfe.

Do I know you? :P
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Kagashi »

KS latest Weekly Update wrote:(Note: Just for the purpose of clarification, the reason you are not seeing talk about Rifts® Australia Two, RECON® Modern Combat or the Robotech® Big Books of Ships is because they have been cancelled. They’ve been canceled for a long while, in some cases, many years. Why? In most cases the original writer moved on and there was nobody to pick up the project. Sometimes the book just didn’t pan out. Sometimes it takes forever to develop. Sorry, it happens. I hope you understand.)


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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Kagashi wrote:
KS latest Weekly Update wrote:(Note: Just for the purpose of clarification, the reason you are not seeing talk about Rifts® Australia Two, RECON® Modern Combat or the Robotech® Big Books of Ships is because they have been cancelled. They’ve been canceled for a long while, in some cases, many years. Why? In most cases the original writer moved on and there was nobody to pick up the project. Sometimes the book just didn’t pan out. Sometimes it takes forever to develop. Sorry, it happens. I hope you understand.)

Well that sucks...

Hm... I wonder if we can get the Big Book o' Ships un-canceled if a suitable author tosses his hat into the ring.

Not at all surprised to hear that it got canceled tho.
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Kagashi »

Yeah. But its not like half the ships we want were not already published by Palladium in the previous incarnation. Plus there is plenty of source material on RT.com and billions of ideas in this very thread. It really just seems like this book just needs somebody to put it together. It really writes itself.
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Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Kagashi wrote:Yeah. But its not like half the ships we want were not already published by Palladium in the previous incarnation.

Granted, but I'm sure a lot of players out there wouldn't be at all inclined to turn their noses up at a book that's got accurate information (the old edition tended to be rather wide of the mark) and has stats that are adjusted to work with the differing stats levels in the new edition of the game. (Then again, in my experience, Robotech's fans tend to be disinclined to turn their noses up at ANYTHING new, as new stuff remains something of a rare commodity for that franchise.)


Kagashi wrote:Plus there is plenty of source material on RT.com and billions of ideas in this very thread. It really just seems like this book just needs somebody to put it together. It really writes itself.

I think calling the rather sparse coverage offered by Robotech.com's Infopedia "plenty" is probably stretching things, but there are plenty of ideas in this thread. It's not quite as handy as an official book, but it works in a pinch.

It is, yeah, probably an easy book to write too... a fair bit of the leg work has already been done, and when I sat down after writing to Kevin to offer to put my library at his disposal to get it done and done right, I realized that I wouldn't even need to step outside the confines of the stuff I've already translated. I could finish the research in about an hour. :lol:
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Re: Spaceships, baby. Spaceships.

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Seto Kaiba wrote:Hm... I wonder if we can get the Big Book o' Ships un-canceled if a suitable author tosses his hat into the ring.

Not at all surprised to hear that it got canceled tho.

Surprised it took that long to admit it though.

If another author tossed their hat into the ring it is possible to resurrect the book. IIRC Rifts Lemuria went through the same process (Mechanoid: Space if it ever sees the light of day might also qualify).
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