Updating Cosmo Knight O.C.C. Ideas here please.

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:39 am

I was reading over my phase world book and considering all the revisions many of the standard O.C.C.s have gotten over the years I wanted to give a go at polishing up this Gem of a Class that GMs all over creation seem to boycott at all chances. Munchkin it is not, Any class can become out of hand if played wrongly. I personally like to play major forces for good since the multiverse seems so full of powerful evil whats wrong with a small bit of powerful good.

So post here ideas or things that seem to be missing.

One of the things that has always gotten me was the confusion over what the cosmic forge does to the player's racial abilities. Are these lost in the reforging process or do they kept by the newly made knight.

Example, an alien race who does not speak at all or has natural psionic powers standard for the entire race. May they are natural telepaths who don't use ISP for it or they have some psionic powers. Stuff like this doesn't make much since if the knights are suppose to hide amongst the populous until needed. Also why would such a powerful thing like the forge that can create practicably anything have trouble remaking something and allowing it to keep it's natural abilities?

I will read posts and consider anything anyone wishes to put up for consideration.

Braden Campbell · Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:21 am

VR Dragon wrote: One of the things that has always gotten me was the confusion over what the cosmic forge does to the player's racial abilities. Are these lost in the reforging process or do they kept by the newly made knight...

You may not be aware, but you are about to reignite a nasty debate with the posing of this question. Opinion is sharply divided 'round these parts as to whether or not CKs keep their racial abilities be it telepathy, a hightened sense of smell, or an immunity to certain things such as magic or psionics.

In the one camp are those, myself included, who feel that the re-born Knights loose something in accepting the mantle of "protector of the universe" - they may look like a normal member of their race, but by trading their natural abilites for god-like ones, there is now something that will forever set them apart somewhat. It lends a little bitter-sweetness and gravity to the OCC

On the other hand, there are those who think the above is just stupid, and see no reason why they shouldn't be able to draft up a 6th sense-empowered, telepathic Noro Knight or whathaveyou. In the end, like all things in an RPG, it's going to come down to what the Game Master thinks best.

MaxxSterling · Unread post by **MaxxSterling** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:23 pm

I'd say search for it... But seriously, why take anything away. Cosmo Knights are supposed to be super B.A. mofos. Ok, so one can fly through a sun and then cast pyrokinesis too, who cares! If you're playing a CK, you're probably playing a high threat campaign anyhow. Just throw Dominators at him, problem solved.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:32 pm

Yeah. I remember how heated this discussion got the last time it was up and floating around here in the Dimensions area. Anyone want some popcorn and sit back and watch as a bystander. That is what I'm doing.

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:03 am

Revised Cosmo Knight Occupational Character Class.

Cosmo Knight Info here…. Blah blah blah… you know what they are.

Alignment: Principled or Scrupulous only. You switch to anything else and you become a fallen knight.

Attributes: Use these or the ones for the original race. Whichever is stat roll would higher for that attribute. The Cosmic Forge would not change anyone into a knight and lower their abilities; it only boosts natural potential it does weaken them.

I.Q.: 3d6 + 2, M.E.: 4d6 + 4, M.A.: 3d6 + 4, P.S.: 3d6 + 32, P.P.: 3d6 + 6, P.E.: 3d6 + 10, P.B.: 3d6, SPD: 2d4 X 10

Size: Varies with race.

Life Span: Immortal as long as they do not fall.

MDC: 4d6 X 10 +60 or the original race’s if better. Gains 4d6 MDC Per Level thereafter. Their Cosmic Armor adds 500 MDC extra when it is summoned.

Horror/Awe Factor: none if appearing as normal being or whatever the normal race would possess. 12 when revealed in their cosmic armor. 15 to evil beings and wanted criminals.

PPE: 1d6 X 100, gains 1d4 X 10 per level thereafter. Recovers P.P.E. at the rate of 10 per hour of rest or 20 per hour of meditation.

ISP: None or Standard for original race. Psychic classes like the mind melter, burster, etc would lose any psionic powers after becoming a knight, but any race which every member has naturally occurring psionic powers will retain those powers. Also see Cosmic Telepathy below.

Magic: None or whatever natural powers a race might possess. They can use Techno Wizard gizmos.

Cosmo Knights Powers and Abilities:

The kink in the cosmic power is Magic. All magic has full effect on Cosmo Knights, even if energy based.

1.) Energy Resistant: Immune to normal cold, fire, heat, plasma and radiation. Can fly into a star and sit there is forever if they wanted to. Magic cold and fire hurts like hell though. Lasers, practical beams, ion blasts, and other normal energy attacks only do 1/100th the damage. Magical versions of the above have full effect/ignore this energy resistance. All Physical attacks like bullets, rail guns, punches, falls, etc do normal damage.

2.) Flight: A Cosmo knight can fly at speeds of mach 1 (660 MPH) per level of experience. Can be done Underwater (Water is by definition just a thick atmosphere), in an atmosphere, or the cold hard vacuum of space. Unlimited Altitude and duration.

Faster Than Light Speed Flight: As a guardian of space a cosmo knight can fly faster the than speed of light. They can fly at 1 light year per hour per level of experience. This can only be done while outside the atmosphere of a planet or while in space. The knight need only meditate for 10 minutes and expend 30 P.P.E.(or 60 MDC if out of P.P.E.) to charge up. Turning into a being of pure cosmic energy he shoots off and can cruise at this speed until he reaches his destination or chooses to stop at which point he returns to none energy being form. To fly again just meditate and charge up again to be on your way.

3.) Cosmic Blasts: The cosmo knight can shoot beams of powerful cosmic energy from his hands or eyes (chosen at character generation). The blast does 1d6 X 10 MDC at first level and gains 1d6 X 10 MD extra at levels 3, 6, 9, and 12. Each Blast counts as 1 attack/action per melee. In space the cosmo knight can expend P.P.E./M.D.C. to increase this damage. 50 points doubles the damage while 100 points multiplies it by 5. Range 4,000ft + 300ft per level. In space the range is increased to 5 miles. If the damage is increased with the expenditure points above then the rage becomes 10 miles. Again only while in space. The Energy blast is not "Normal Energy" and thus damages supernatural and creatures of magic not effect by normal energies or energy weapon/power blasts. But spells like impervious to energy does make one immune for the duration of the spell or effect. If you are not effected by normal or magical energy attacks then you are immune to a Cosmic energy blast.

4.) Galactic Awareness: Their cosmic connection to the forge gives the knight an inborn sense of direction. This translates into to an automatic skill of space navigation at 98% and Land/Water Navigation of 89%. Cosmo Knights can also sense Ion Storms, Nebulae, and other naturally occurring space phenomena at a range of up to 1 light year per level away and can follow this sense to it's source. Just like a ley line walker senses ley lines and ley line storms.

5.) Bio-Regeneration: The Cosmo knight heals damage at a rate of 1d4 X 10 M.D.C. per minute. The knight can regenerate lost or damage limbs, etc 24 hours with no scaring. Never gets cybernetic implants due to them being expelled from his body within minutes.

6.) Cosmic Armor: The knight can summon a "Skin Tight" suit of metallic colored armor that appears on them in a flash of light. The armor design/appearance is linked to mind the knight and various from knight to knight with no to being identical. The armor provides 500 MDC extra and regenerates damage at the same rate at the knight. Some never remove their armor since they no longer have physical needs like eating or drinking. But most hide it to keep with hiding until needed. The Cosmic Armor cannot be removed and it fades away if the knight is killed. A Cosmo knight cannot wear a radio under their armor to talk or hear. A Cosmo Knight Also cannot talk in the vacuum of space.

7.) Cosmic Weapon: Some knights choose to create a weapon when they first become knights. This weapon once created becomes a living part of the knight and he can summon or dismiss it like his armor. The weapon can also be thrown and it always returns to the knight unless it is restrained or captured but it can be dismissed and recalled each action of which uses 1 melee action (2 actions total to dismiss and resummon it to their hand). Also the weapon can never be used to do damage to the knight whom created it, doing so causes it to automatically dismiss itself in a flash of light.

The cosmic weapon costs the knight 50 PPE, MDC, or combo there of when first created upon becoming a knight. It does 1d4 X 10 MDC plus Supernatural PS damage per strike. Also is + 1 to strike and parry including bonuses gained from the appropriate W.P. Skill and other bonuses. One additional power from the following list can be chosen extra for the weapon for an extra cost. Throwing range is 1000ft in atmosphere or 4000 ft in space.

Extra Damage: The weapon will do 1d6 X 10 MD for 15 points or 2d4 X 10 MD for 30 points.

Energy Blast: The weapon acts as a focusing channel for their cosmic blast power. The range for each blast is doubled, gains an extra + 25 MD damage bonus, + 1 strike for 40 points.

Force Field: The weapon allows the knight to create a force field around them with a 30ft diameter max. MDC of the force field is 10 per 1 point spent towards this power. Maximum MDC is 500 MDC for 50 points. The force field can be created any number of times per day as long as there is MDC left. The maximum total duration the shield can be maintained is a total of 2 hours after which it requires a 1 hour cool down period before it can be recreated. Lost MDC of the shield recovers at the rate of 1 point per minute (60 per hour). The shield gains a + 3 to parry an incoming attack if used to block but no other bonuses apply not even P.P. bonuses.

Extra Weapon: The knight can chose to create a second weapon instead of any of the above. The second weapon does the same amount of damage as the first weapon (1d4 X 10 MD) and costs 50 points but no other power can be added to it or the first weapon. A Knight is Limited to the creation of 2 weapons through this method since the Comic Forge wouldn't want to have a Knight render themselves too weakened to effectively battle the forces of evil in the megaverse.

The weapon can be any archaic sword, blunt, pole arm, etc, or gun if the energy blast power is selected. The weapon is indestructible and damages creature hurt by magic or the like. When a Knight dies their weapon(s) fade away along with the cosmic power empowered into them by the cosmic forge.

8.) MDC Conversion: The cosmo knight can convert personal MDC into P.P.E. at a 2 to 1 rate. This is done when a knight runs out of P.P.E. and finds himself needing more power to battle with. Lost MDC heals at the normal rate of 1d4 X 10 MD per minute (This IS the normal healing rate for Cosmo Knights MDC). Cannot be used to recharge their personal P.P.E. Pool that can only be done through rest and meditation.

9.) Cosmic Telepathy: The cosmo knight gains a special but limited form of telemechanics and telepathy that allows them to communicate with other beings and fellow knights. This is a natural power and does not cost any ISP or PPE to use. This can be used as a universal commutation power when languages are not in common. To anyone the knight uses it on while in mortal or knight appearance will assume it is normal speech or telepathy. This telepathy is special in that artificial machines (Robots, Cyborgs, A.I.s, Etc hince quasi telemechanical) can also hear it and it also allows them to hear non-scrambled radio transmissions from ships (how else do you hear a ship SOS in space?). When in space this telepathy is used to communicate with fellow cosmo knights or peoples aboard space ships. It is limited in that it cannot be used to read someone’s memories or emotions, it can only project and hear the loudest thoughts in a person’s mind and those are linked to speech or communication. It can be used to talk to one person or persons privately or as a general broadcast that all can hear. To broadcast privately the person must be in line of sight or the knight must know the location of the person. When broadcasting generally the knight need only open his mind to sense replies directed at him by others. This power is not any kind of attack and will not trigger Mind Block Auto Defense but the psychic would feel a mental tickle along with any communication and thus know the telepathic nature of the conversation. To communicate with other knights or telepaths can be done freely but to communicate with a none telepath requires concentration on the knights part and requires 1 action per melee to maintain any kind of link. Range is 250,000 miles for telepaths and non-telepaths but 1 light year per level for other knights. Range can be boosted as the expenditure of PPE/MDC per 10 points spend the range is doubled.

The knight can also vaguely sense for a person’s mental presence to generally locate them by concentrating on an area and “listening” for them. This listening range is 1 light year per level for fellow knights but only 250,000 miles maximum for all others. Sensing range cannot be boosted. Base sensing skill is 55 percent and gains 5% per level. Gains a + 15% for a close personal friend, + 10% if they are a telepath, + 5% for someone the knight has talked to and met 2 or more times. Penalties are -30% for someone using mind block, -20% for someone who is unconscious or in a coma, -5% for none psionic beings, also a general -15% penalty for trying to sense someone in a large group of people (30 or more) or -45% in large places like cities or star ships with over 1000 people on it. Listening uses all the cosmo knights concentration and thus all melee attacks/actions.

10.) Other Abilities: Nightvision 3000’ (12,000ft in space but night while near or looking at a star/sun), Sharp Vision (Can see things clearly up to 2 miles away or 10 miles in space), cannot be blinded by normal light no mater how bright it may be. Does not need to eat (Drain PPE or ISP for those types), sleep, or breath any longer and only needs to meditate for 1 hour per day. Can go for 3 weeks without rest before becoming tired and need meditate for 12 hours to become well rested again. Immune to extreme pressures (can sit on the ocean floor 20 miles down and shoot into space without getting the bends.), Immune to the effects of gravity (Except impacts from falling.) can fly out of black holes since they can fly faster than light. Impervious to air born toxins, SDC drugs, poisons, diseases. They still possess any senses and abilities members of their race naturally possess. But GMs should consider carefully any proposed race and cosmo knight O.O.C. combinations for possible abuse issues.

11.) Other Bonuses: + 2 Initiative, + 2 strike, +3 parry, +3 dodge, + 6 to pull punch, + 4 vs mega damage poisons, bio-wizard parasites and microbes, + 6 vs Horror Factor , + 3 perception rolls, Considered a Master Psychic due to natural telepathy and power level. These are in addition to attribute and skill bonuses.

Experience: Typically 1d6 + 4 level, the oldest knights are 15 to 20. New players should start at first or second level.

Combat: Hand to Hand: Martial Arts

Damage: See Supernatural P.S. Damage.

Vulnerabilities: Magic and Psionics do full damage and have full effect.

O.C.C. Skills: All skills, spells, and abilities from their prior O.C.C. or P.C.C. (But NOT R.C.C. such as Grackle tooth's and their extra W.P. or natural instinct defined skills. If all members of a race have it then so would the Cosmo Knight) are Lost when they become a Cosmo Knight. Total Skill Mind Wipe!

Three Language Skills of Choice + 30%
Radio: Basic +5%
Navigation Space +15% (This would be for reading maps and plotting courses of star ships or themselves)
Galactic Lore + 20%
Law: Galactic +10%
Demon and Monster Lore + 10%
Movement: Zero Gravity + 10%
Weapon Profession of Choice
Hand to Hand: Martial Arts

O.C.C. Related Skills: Select 12 other skills at first level. Gains 2 extra skills at levels 4, and 7 then 1 skill at levels 10 and 12.

Communicates: Any , Domestics: Any + 5%, Electrical: Any, Espionage: Any + 5%, Mechanical: Any, Medical: Any, Military: Any , Physical: Any, Pilot: Any + 5%, Pilot Related: Any, Rogue: Any + 5%, Science: Any + 5%, Technical: Any + 10%, Weapon Prof: Any, Wilderness: Any.

Secondary Skills: Select 6 from the prior list. Ignore percentile bonus as only I.Q. bonus if any applies.

Alliances and Allies: Other Cosmo Knights and any force of light and good.

Equipment: Standard for whatever their normal life required or needed and is of modest quality. Keeps magical weapons and other items but tends to give away powerful and useful items to others.

Cybernetics: None but can wear fake looking stuff to help aid the illusion of being a normal person. But real ones are purged from their bodies in 1d4 minutes.

Special Info:

A Cosmo Knight, while empowered by the cosmic forge is still a living creature. They can fall in love like any other creature. Take a mate with other members of their species and still have offspring. The offspring will be normal in all ways as nothing of the cosmic power can be transferred to others, It is not something genetic. Few knights take mates though since they are effectively immortal and will more then likely out live their mate and offspring.

When a Cosmo Knight dies their bodies always return to normal as the cosmic power that empowered them fades away.

Braden Campbell · Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:44 am

OK... once again, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, so I just have to ask: why do people want the Cosmo-Kinghts to be able to wield paired (or multiple) weapons and to have children?

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:53 am

The one bird race from the Atlantis book that is magic immune I consider a tad silly. I just ignore their reference and say they don't exist or I would rule that their magic immuneness prevents the forge from pumping its magical energies into to empower it.

Well paired weapons I added because someone asked about it and the cost for 2 weapons that does 1d4 X 10 is the same as one weapon that does 2d4 X 10. It's cool if they want it and ends up being the same end the end. Works with paired weapon types. I wouldn't allow for more then two though since then you getting a bit farther afield. The only draw back I can see coming with pairing these weapons would be the extra damage from the extra P.S. damage bonus. I can see where this can become a problem if not handled well. But I also keep in mind that the cosmic weapon was more ment to can open space ships and big nasty monsters not chop no real threat people into pieces. Heck that sounds like grounds for falling to me.

Kids? Well there is always the Dependent N.P.C. Angle that can be worked and I know anyone would do anything to get their child back or keep them safe. Someone maybe wants to have maybe to remind them that they are still human (or what ever) and what they are fighting for.

Whats the harm in these to things? It adds background options for story telling and role playing.

If anything it's anti-munchkin to ask for the ability to have kids. Maybe it's also something that helps keep a player grounded in playing a character instead of playing a combat monster. But I wouldn't allow for super baby nonsense. As a GM I gladly accept things from players that give me hooks to motivate them. You should see how many players I have seen that never have a wife or kid. Sheesh doesn't anyone on rifts earth have sex?

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:08 pm

critique and input welcome please.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:07 am

:::eating popcorn and watching the discussion.::: Interesting variation of the CK.

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:45 am

Anything else?

ZINO · Unread post by **ZINO** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:12 pm

VR Dragon wrote:Revised Cosmo Knight Occupational Character Class.

Cosmo Knight Info here…. Blah blah blah… you know what they are.

Alignment: Principled or Scrupulous only. You switch to anything else and you become a fallen knight.

Attributes: Use these or the ones for the original race. Whichever is stat roll would higher for that attribute. The Cosmic Forge would not change anyone into a knight and lower their abilities; it only boosts natural potential it does weaken them.

I.Q.: 3d6 + 2, M.E.: 4d6 + 4, M.A.: 3d6 + 4, P.S.: 3d6 + 32, P.P.: 3d6 + 6, P.E.: 3d6 + 10, P.B.: 3d6, SPD: 2d4 X 10

Size: Varies with race.

Life Span: Immortal as long as they do not fall.

MDC: 4d6 X 10 +60 or the original race’s if better. Gains 4d6 MDC Per Level thereafter. Their Cosmic Armor adds 500 MDC extra when it is summoned.

Horror/Awe Factor: none if appearing as normal being or whatever the normal race would possess. 12 when revealed in their cosmic armor. 15 to evil beings and wanted criminals.

PPE: 1d6 X 100, gains 1d4 X 10 per level thereafter. Recovers P.P.E. at the rate of 10 per hour of rest or 20 per hour of meditation.

ISP: None or Standard for original race. Psychic classes like the mind melter, burster, etc would lose any psionic powers after becoming a knight, but any race which every member has naturally occuring psionic powers will retain those powers. Also see Cosmic Telepathy below.

Magic: None or whatever natural powers a race might possess. They can use Techno Wizard gizmos.
Cosmo Knights Powers and Abilities:

The kink in the cosmic power is Magic. All magic has full effect on Cosmo Knights, even if energy based.

1.) Energy Resistant: Immune to normal cold, fire, heat, plasma and radiation. Can fly into a star and sit there is forever if they wanted to. Magic cold and fire hurts like hell though. Lasers, practical beams, ion blasts, and other normal energy attacks only do 1/100th the damage. Magical versions of the above have full effect/ignore this energy resistance. All Physical attacks like bullets, rail guns, punches, falls, etc do normal damage.

2.) Flight: A cosmo knight can fly at speeds of mach 1 (660 MPH) per level of experience. Can be done Underwater, in an atmosphere, or the cold hard vacuum of space. Unlimited Altitude and duration.

Faster Than Light Speed Flight: As a guardian of space a cosmo knight can fly faster the than speed of light. They can fly at 1 light year per hour per level of experience. This can only be done while outside the atmosphere of a planet or while in space. The knight need only meditate for 10 minutes and expend 30 P.P.E. to charge up. Turning into a being of pure cosmic energy he shoots off and can cruise at this speed until he reaches his destination or chooses to stop at which point he returns to none energy being form. To fly again just meditate and charge up again to be on your way.

3.) Cosmic Blasts: The cosmo knight can shoot beams of powerful cosmic energy from his hands or eyes (chosen at character generation). The blast does 1d6 X 10 MDC at first level and gains 1d6 X 10 MD extra at levels 3, 6, 9, and 12. Each Blast counts as 1 attack/action per melee. In space the cosmo knight can expend P.P.E./M.D.C. to increase this damage. 50 points doubles the damage while 100 points multiplies it by 5. Range 4,000ft + 300ft per level. In space the range is increased to 5 miles. If the damage is increased with the expenditure points above then the rage becomes 10 miles. Again only while in space. The Energy blast also damages supernatural and creatures of magic not effect by normal energy blasts.

4.) Galactic Awareness: Their cosmic connection to the forge gives the knight an inborn sense of direction. This translates into to an automatic skill of space navigation at 98% and Land/Water Navigation of 89%.

5.) Bio-Regeneration: The cosmo knight heals damage at a rate of 1d4 X 10 M.D.C. per minute. The knight can regenerate lost or damage limbs, etc 24 hours with no scaring. Never gets cybernetic implants due to them being expelled from his body within minutes.

6.) Cosmic Armor: The knight can summon a skin tight suit of metallic colored armor that appears on them in a flash of light. The armor design/appearance is linked to mind the knight and various from knight to knight with no to being identical. The armor privides 500 MDC extra and regenerates damage at the same rate at the knight. Some never remove their armor since they no longer have physical needs like eating or drinking. But most hide it to keep with hiding until needed. The Cosmic Armor cannot be removed and it fades away if the knight is killed.

7.) Cosmic Weapon: Some knights choose to create a weapon when they first become knights. This weapon once created becomes a living part of the knight and he can summon or dismiss it like his armor. The weapon can also be thrown and it always returns to the knight unless it is restrained or captured but it can be dismissed and recalled each action of which uses 1 melee action (2 actions total to dismiss and resummon it to their hand). Also the weapon can never be used to do damage to the knight whom created it, doing so causes it to automatically dismiss itself in a flash of light.

The cosmic weapon costs the knight 50 PPE, MDC, or combo there of when first created upon becoming a knight. It does 1d4 X 10 MDC plus Supernatural PS damage per strike. Also is + 1 to strike and parry including bonuses gained from the appropriate W.P. Skill and other bonuses. One additional power from the following list can be chosen extra for the weapon for an extra cost. Throwing range is 1000ft in atmosphere or 4000 ft in space.

Extra Damage: The weapon will do 1d6 X 10 MD for 15 points or 2d4 X 10 MD for 30 points.

Energy Blast: The weapon acts as a focusing channel for their cosmic blast power. The range for each blast is doubled, gains an extra + 25 MD damage bonus, + 1 strike for 40 points.

Force Field: The weapon allows the knight to create a force field around them with a 30ft diameter max. MDC of the force field is 10 per 1 point spent towards this power. Maximum MDC is 500 MDC for 50 points. The force field can be created any number of times per day as long as there is MDC left. The maximum total duration the shield can be maintained is a total of 2 hours after which it requires a 1 hour cool down period before it can be recreated. Lost MDC of the shield recovers at the rate of 1 point per minute (60 per hour). The shield gains a + 3 to parry an incoming attack if used to block but no other bonuses apply.

Extra Weapon: The knight can chose to create a second weapon instead of any of the above. The second weapon does the same amount of damage as the first weapon (1d4 X 10 MD) and costs 30 points but no other power can be added to it or the first weapon.

The weapon can be any archaic sword, blunt, pole arm, etc, or gun if the energy blast power is selected. The weapon is indestructible and damages creature hurt by magic or the like. When a Knight dies their weapon(s) fade away along with the cosmic power empowered into them by the cosmic forge.

8.) MDC Conversion: The cosmo knight can convert personal MDC into P.P.E. at a 1 to 1 rate. This is done when a knight runs out of P.P.E. and finds himself needing more power to battle with. Lost MDC heals at the normal rate of 1d4 X 10 MD per minute. Cannot be used to recharge their personal P.P.E. Pool that can only be done through rest and meditation.

9.) Cosmic Telepathy: The cosmo knight gains a special but limited form of telemechanics and telepathy that allows them to communicate with other beings and fellow knights. This is a natural power and does not cost any ISP or PPE to use. This can be used as a universal commutation power when languages are not in common. To anyone the knight uses it on while in mortal or knight appearance will assume it is normal speech or telepathy. This telepathy is special in that artificial machines (Robots, Cyborgs, A.I.s, Etc hince quasi telemechanical) can also hear it and it also allows them to hear non-scrambled radio transmissions from ships (how else do you hear a ship SOS in space?). When in space this telepathy is used to communicate with fellow cosmo knights or peoples aboard space ships. It is limited in that it cannot be used to read someone’s memories or emotions, it can only project and hear the loudest thoughts in a person’s mind and those are linked to speech or communication. It can be used to talk to one person or persons privately or as a general broadcast that all can hear. To broadcast privately the person must be in line of sight or the knight must know the location of the person. When broadcasting generally the knight need only open his mind to sense replies directed at him by others. This power is not any kind of attack and will not trigger Mind Block Auto Defense but the psychic would feel a mental tickle along with any communication and thus know the telepathic nature of the conversation. To communicate with other knights or telepaths can be done freely but to communicate with a none telepath requires concentration on the knights part and requires 1 action per melee to maintain any kind of link. Range is 250,000 miles for telepaths and non-telepaths but 1 light year per level for other knights. Range can be boosted as the expenditure of PPE/MDC per 10 points spend the range is doubled.

The knight can also vaguely sense for a person’s mental presence to generally locate them by concentrating on an area and “listening” for them. This listening range is 1 light year per level for fellow knights but only 250,000 miles maximum for all others. Sensing range cannot be boosted. Base sensing skill is 55 percent and gains 5% per level. Gains a + 15% for a close personal friend, + 10% if they are a telepath, + 5% for someone the knight has talked to and met 2 or more times. Penalties are -30% for someone using mind block, -20% for someone who is unconscious or in a coma, -5% for none psionic beings, also a general -15% penalty for trying to sense someone in a large group of people (30 or more) or -45% in large places like cities or star ships with over 1000 people on it. Listening uses all the cosmo knights concentration and thus all melee attacks/actions.

10.) Other Abilities: Nightvision 3000’ (12,000ft in space but night while near or looking at a star/sun), Sharp Vision (Can see things clearly up to 2 miles away or 10 miles in space), cannot be blinded by normal light no mater how bright it may be. Does not need to eat (Drain PPE or ISP for those types), sleep, or breath any longer and only needs to meditate for 1 hour per day. Can go for 3 weeks without rest before becoming tired and need meditate for 12 hours to become well rested again. Immune to extreme pressures (can sit on the ocean floor 20 miles down and shoot into space without getting the bends.), Immune to the effects of gravity (Except impacts from falling.) can fly out of black holes since they can fly faster than light. Impervious to air born toxins, SDC drugs, poisons, diseases. They still possess any senses and abilities members of their race naturally possess. But GMs should consider carefully any proposed race and cosmo knight O.O.C. combinations for possible abuse issues.

11.) Other Bonuses: + 2 Initiative, + 2 strike, +3 parry, +3 dodge, + 6 to pull punch, + 4 vs mega damage poisons, bio-wizard parasites and microbes, + 6 vs Horror Factor , + 3 perception rolls, Considered a Master Psychic due to natural telepathy and power level. These are in addition to attribute and skill bonuses.

Experience: Typically 1d6 + 4 level, the oldest knights are 15 to 20. New players should start at first or second level.

Combat: Hand to Hand: Martial Arts

Damage: See Supernatural P.S. Damage.

Vulnerabilities: Magic and Psionics do full damage and have full effect.

O.C.C. Skills: All skills, spells, and abilities from their prior O.C.C. or P.C.C. (But NOT R.C.C.) are Lost when they become a Cosmo Knight. Total Skill Mind Wipe!

Three Language Skills of Choice + 30%
Radio: Basic +5%
Navigation Space +15% ( This would be for reading maps and plotting courses )
Galactic Lore + 20%
Law: Galactic +10%
Demon and Monster Lore + 10%
Movement: Zero Gravity + 10%
Weapon Profession of Choice
Hand to Hand: Martial Arts

O.C.C. Related Skills: Select 12 other skills at first level. Gains 2 extra skills at levels 2, 4, and 7 then 1 skill at levels 10 and 12.

Communicates: Any , Domestics: Any + 5%, Electrical: Any, Espionage: Any + 5%, Mechanical: Any, Medical: Any, Military: Any , Physical: Any, Pilot: Any + 5%, Pilot Related: Any, Rogue: Any + 5%, Science: Any + 5%, Technical: Any + 10%, Weapon Prof: Any, Wilderness: Any.

Secondary Skills: Select 6 from the prior list. Ignore percentile bonus as only I.Q. bonus if any applies.

Alliances and Allies: Other Cosmo Knights and any force of light and good.

Equipment: Standard for whatever their normal life required or needed and is of modest quality. Keeps magical weapons and other items but tends to give away powerful and useful items to others.

Cybernetics: None but can wear fake looking stuff to help aid the illusion of being a normal person. But real ones are purged from their bodies in 1d4 minutes.

Special Info:

A Cosmo Knight, while empowered by the cosmic forge is still a living creature. They can fall in love like any other creature. Take a mate with other members of their species and still have offspring. The offspring will be normal in all ways as nothing of the cosmic power can be transferred to others, It is not something genetic. Few knights take mates though since they are effectively immortal and will more then likely out live their mate and offspring.

When a Cosmo Knight dies their bodies always return to normal as the cosmic power that empowered them fades away.

they need as many weapons to fight evil!!!! or outnumber!!! which they always are !!!!!
NICE

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:25 pm

LOL Zino, you really don't have to highlight the entire entry.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:36 pm

Braden Campbell wrote:OK... once again, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, so I just have to ask: why do people want the Cosmo-Kinghts to be able to wield paired (or multiple) weapons and to have children?

Why kids?
Hostages, my lad, hostages.....Because the GMs now have a handle to bend PCs into Fallen, if they're dumb enough to have kids.....They start worrying about outliving their families, and start looking for ways to grant them longer lives, or they decide to try to give up their Knighthoods....Or Mommy or Daddy the CosmoKnight gives a new meaning to 'helicopter parenting'.....Or the TGE learns that thorn in their side has a brat, and decides to do something with the tyke...or that gang holds the kids hostage if the CosmoKnight will do just one LITTLE thing for them....
Oh, that little addition allows for CKs to start Falling like flies... :twisted:

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:45 pm

I think that Gadrin is looking at this the way most CK's would.

Malakai · Unread post by **Malakai** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:34 pm

Here are my issues with it:

Adaptations

Powers

Three Galaxies

All in all, you seem to have beefed up the Cosmo-Knight quite a bit - something I feel wasn't necessary. I think the above goes more towards improving them (unneeded) than "updating" them (i.e. clarifying ambiguous statements or misinterpretations).

***Note: I am not too familiar with RIFTS vamps, and toher creatures that are impervious to most things - are they still affected by beings with Supernatural PS normally? If so, I think I would take off the "energy blast hurting otherwise invulnerable targets", as they obviously have a means of affecting said threat.

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:13 am

I thank you for your input and I will do my best to address them. First thing to keep in mind that seems to be missed and ignored totally by a lot of people. The Cosmic forge empowers normal people, reshaping them it removes the weaknesses of mortals. They are transformed by the experience, yeah they are now super natural creatures of their species now (They are like mega heroes and can thus have normal kids) and no longer have any skills from the prior O.C.C. or P.C.C. (And I've never added R.C.C. skills to the skill list when an O.C.C. is selected, but this really hasn't come up before for me.)

So the idea I worked with was this...

The forge turns you into a SN creature (See mega hero in Heroes Unlimited), fine tunes your body thus keeping the good parts (Highest stats, natural abilities, etc) and only focusing on the weak spots that need improving (lower stats, dieing in the harshness of space, food, breathing, and sleep.) That is what gets reshaped. It makes no sense what so ever to lower any attributes or stats or abilities. Reading the O.C.C. description many times now It doesn't say anywhere that the character looses anything except for learned skills from prior O.C.C.s.

So to address your points.

1) MDC - the better of the two is never listed. Granted, this issue would rarely come up, but i can see the possibility there, given the tables for creating your own race in PW. Leave them at the standard for CKs

While this was not listed I drew from the prior listing of "Which ever is higher" under the attributes portion of the O.C.C. Again if the Cosmic forge turns some creature that as a race has 1d6 X 100 MDC why would the cosmic forge make this lower?

2) Psionics - My problem here is that, as written, I can have a CK with 9 Minor Powers and 2 Super-Psychic abilities - none of which are "needed", like a telepathy for an otherwise mute race. This is why I would separate things between Adaptations (such as the above mentioned telepathy) and Powers (like Psi-Sword). Anything that is an adaptation I would allow, otherwise drop it - the "Body and soul has been seared and reshaped by the Cosmic Forge", after all

First, Palladium Psionics System is far from being powerful. I don't recall any minor psionic power in palladium that I find as overpowering. Super Psionic powers are on a different level and I agree that choosing psi sword would be on the red flagged list. But no psionic being can have Psi sword, or any of the other good powers before being 3rd level and the only way such a psionic being can gain more powers than 9 minor and 2 super is to choose and Psionic Character Class but the forge would make them lose any such gained powers as they lose any prior O.C.C. powers or abilities once they become a knight. Palladium already has this fail safe built in I didn't see it needing to be restated.

3) Under immunities, also note those resistances/immunities granted against stellar phenomena mentioned in Three Galaxies, specifically: Ion Storms (only visibility is affected - reduced by half), Nebulae (Not affected by any)

I admit to not having a copy of the Three Galaxies book. I was not aware of such things and the problems they posed. Any damage from an ion storm would be electrical damage by definition and fall under a Cosmo knight's energy resistance abilities and so only a Class 10 ion storm would tickle a Cosmo Knight but his regeneration abilities should compensate for that. The vision limitations as described are from the multi-flashing lights of the storm. I addressed that a Cosmo knight wouldn't be blinded by any non-magical light they would see normally in such a storm. Nebulae as listed in the book limits vision to 5 miles in space and this would be acceptable since the reason of their boosted level of vision in space was more to the removal of horizon limits and atmospheric phenomena, I see nebulae as space atmospheric phenomena. But you as a GM could rule as you feel is more conducive to the story line.

4) Flight - No mention has ever been made of their speed underwater - I'm inclined to halve it due to increased resistance. Is there a reason you thought it should be the same, regardless? Also, in reference to FTL - 5LY/H is fast enough to keep up with or catch all bu the fastest ships. Indeed, the only ships that could outrun said CK are the Battleships, Carriers, and Dreadnoughts, which in my opinion should be able to. You also neglected to mention the 30 MDC cost in the FTL Description as well - was this intentional?

I addressed water speeds only because of water worlds. As water is technically just a thicker atmosphere I didn't feel a need to reduce speeds since a Cosmo Knight shouldn't be affected by such a trival matter. This opens arguments for "How thick is thick" and felt it better to run that line of mess off from the start. But again a GM is more then free to impose any adjustments they feel is conducive to their stories.

FTL Speeds where listed in the original book as 1 light year per level, I just added the per hour as this is what I assumed to be implied since all other speeds in the American English systems of measurements is generally Something per hour. Also A Cosmo Knight is ment to be a Comic Policeman and should be able to arrive at places of need quickly. Since speed goes up per level a more experienced knight should be able to get there faster. As for ships of the massive size why should they be able to out speed a Cosmo knight? They use engines and a Cosmo Knight turns into pure cosmic energy. Energy beats mass for speeds all the time in science. As for the cost of 30 it is actually given as 30 P.P.E. A Cosmo Knight would only need to burn MDC if they were out of juice.

5) It should be added to Galactic Awareness that this also gives them an innate sense of cosmic phenomena, such as Ion Storms, Meteor Showers, etc, as described in Three Galaxies

I would say that since storm and showers fall under the terms "space weather" I wouldn't add a weather sense right off the bat. But It does make sense in the spirit of the power's descritpion to add such since they should be in tune with the forces at work in space.

6) Bio-Regeneration: I would like there to be some penalty for converting MDC into PPE and other uses, such as FTL, where they burn off their MDC to produce an effect. essentially, I think such "burns" should not be subject to the Regeneration Rule, instead needing to be healed normally. The reason for such is that they have such a high level of regeneration that they could turn into PPE batteries very easily. It also forces them to more carefully consider their use of PPE, including when making things such as their weapons.

This is what they are though. Cosmo Knights are batteries for Cosmic Energies (P.P.E. in this case). They cannot tap into ley lines since they are not magic users. The only things a Cosmo Knight uses their P.P.E. for is charging up their cosmic energy blasts in space, flying around FTL, and other small things. The reason they have such high amounts of power is it takes a lot to destroy a big space ship and to even get past their force fields. They have few uses for P.P.E. they just have a load of it so they don't fine themselves strapped for power when they need it. As for healing "Burn" damage, a Cosmo Knight has a lot of MDC and is meant to fight big bad threats to planets and the like. They are built tough and recover quickly to be able to keep battling evil of high level threats. Since this evil his tough and recovers quickly you should fight like with like.

7) In regards to the Weapon being able to be dismissed at will, I am completely against such, as it goes counter to the idea that they can be captured or stolen - in my opinion, the knight must have control of the weapon in order to send it back.

I felt that a Cosmo Knight's weapon and armor are manifestsations of their Comic Energies since they have to permanently give up these MDC or PPE points they should have control over how it is used. The whole business of Cosmo Knights having their weapons stolen and going so far as even falling to recover them while sounding like a great plot hook felt more contrived then logical considering the other aspects of the Cosmo Knight O.C.C. If no one can remove a Cosmo Knight's armor and steal that then their weapons should fallow the same logic and rules. But again a GM can make any change they feel is conducive to their games and story lines.

8) Shield-Power for the Cosmic Weapon - I like the expansion of being able to include others - this is just what was needed. I would, however, prefer the 2/day activations and no limit to MDC as oppose to regenerated amount and limited MDC.

I thought this aspect of the power over a lot and felt it would be better suited to treat a Cosmo Knight's Force field like any other force field as far as function and recharge rates. One, why should a force field not be able to be used when it still has MDC available. Second, all other force fields are normally given a cool down and recovery time so I applied this after reviewing other force field systems. Third, the power didn't give a limit to how many points a Cosmo knight was limited to so I aplpied a the limit of the highest point cost any of the other powers had which was 50. And the idea of someone walking around with 1000 point force fields scares many GMs as it is. I wanted to be sure a Cosmo Knight had a chance of being allowed into a given game story. But GMs feel free to change what you feel is needed.

9) Second Weapon - I would actually make this more expensive, on the order of 50-100 PPE - it's that beneficial, and would make people reconsider making another one.

It was asked why people wanted Cosmo Knights to have second weapons. Well it's on the cover of books and in their O.C.C. Pictures of knights with 2 glowing comic weapons. The cost for a second weapon is no different then having 1 weapon that does 2d4X10 MD which costs 30 ( 80 points total 50 + 30 for extra damage). I felt if they would rather have 2 weapons that did 1D4 X 10 MD they could since it worked out to be the same. But taking into account the extra damage from their SNPS a second weapon would add in I could see the cost being 50 which is the cost of creating 1 comic weapon to start with. but for the sake of how many MDC a Cosmo Knight has I wouldn't want to make it weaken them to much and the forge would logically put some limit on this spending spree. GMs should feel free to change again what they feel is needed.

10) MDC Conversion - leave it as it is in the book - 2:1 MDC to PPE Conversion, and as mentioned above, heal it slowly.

This was an Error on my part it was ment to stay the same. But I don't see the need for it healing slowly. What is slowly by your reckoning? 2-10 points a day? Cosmo Knights being down for the count for weeks to months is not logical given the forces they are created to meet and defeat. 1D4 X 10 per minute is the natural healing rate for a Cosmo Knight.

11) Remove the cosmic telepathy - it's not needed. I mean, ever notice how all CKs have Radio: Basic? Give them the radio and have them use it.

Yes, they get Radio Basic. But cosmic armor is "Skin Tight" so there wouldn't be room for any standard radio. Plus they cannot talk in space due to lack of a medium for sound to travel through. Also it was pointed out that a cosmo knight lacked any way to communicate with star ships they are battling or helping. Hard to reply to/hear/ or give requests for help or demands for surrender without some method of communication. Bionic or Cybernetics is not an option since their bodies purge them. Magic isn't an option since they are not spell casters. It was left to some type of telepathy and for telepathy to work with/on machines it would need be telemechanical in nature as well. It was far simpler to just make a super watered down version of a generic telepathy power and slap a long long long range on it. Also the aspects of mentally sensing for people was designed more for people lost floating in space and not searching for people on a planet. Hence the large penalties for being around groups of people.

12) I'm good with everything from #10, except the "Abilities" part - I would like to see it restricted to senses and adaptations, to cut down on cheese.

I actually thought it would be better to add these parts in considering they are the most commonly run into forms of natural abilities most races have. I increased the ranges given the distances a cosmo knight deals with in space (200 foot nightvision or even 1000 nightvision is a joke for space and space also removes many limitations for senses due to lack of anything to get in the way.) I removed ISP/PPE drains since that is what some races eat and the forge removed that from other races.

13) why did you increase the Parry and Dodge bonuses to +3 from +2? I mean, they already get 3D6+6 PP, so they will likely already be benefiting from a decent bonus there as well. I'm OK with the Perception bonus, but not the Master Psychic classification.

I reviewed the Cyber Knight O.C.C. and modeled my updates to the slight bump they have gained over their many revisions. The slight bump of 1 point was to reflect such changes. It is true they have a high P.P. score that was why I felt only a slight bump was needed.

As for the Master Psychic Classification. I reviewed the intruder creatures for their telepathy and its massive range. While a Cosmo Knight doesn't start with any other psionic powers I felt the sheer range of their telepathic power constituted a Master level of power if any would fit. They lack ISP and other psionic powers (unless their race has them to start with.) but can become mind melter class psychics when they fall. I drew upon these to set their level of psionic power classification.

14) Why do you keep R.C.C. Skills? I think this is a bit too much.

They wouldn't keep R.C.C. Skills since they would be lost with all prior skills. I never allowed a R.C.C. Skills to carry over into an O.C.C. unless that O.C.C. Stated they gained some extra skill and these have been few and not over powering if kept.

15) why did you increase the bonus for the 3 languages from +20% to +30%? I'm ok with the Galactic lore, but not the Galactic Law - they should have to choose it form there "other" selection. And why are you giving them 2 more skills to start, and another 2 more skills at 2nd level?

The language boost was to reflect their new telepathic nature. The Galactic lore was added to reflect understanding of alien life forms and other space stuff. Galactic Law was added since they are wonder police officers and should know what laws they would be called upon to uphold and defend. Also this was adapted in part from cyber knights and their training (A Cosmo Knight's training I assumed to be implanted by the Forge upon their joining). I increased the number of O.C.C. other skills to reflect the small level of skills they start off with and to allow for enough knowledge to be gained so they can pass for trained normal people. The skills at second level are a type on my part and will be corrected.

16) I would give them the option of leaving their Cosmic Weapon behind upon their death, with the understanding that none of the bonus powers work (only 1D4x10 damage, Indestructible, and +1 Strike and Parry)

I felt it was better to keep in line with the comic weapon being a part of their cosmic power. Upon their death all their cosmic power fades leaving them their former (now dead) selves. So power goes, armor goes, and weapon goes. Besides there is enough powerful indestructible stuff floating around. Do we need comic weapons of dead Cosmo Knights added to it.

All in all, you seem to have beefed up the Cosmo-Knight quite a bit - something I feel wasn't necessary. I think the above goes more towards improving them (unneeded) than "updating" them (i.e. clarifying ambiguous statements or misinterpretations).

Updating was meant to beef them up some since the level of nearly all other O.C.C. , R.C.C.s and P.C.C.s and increased a noticeable amount since their initial appearance in the books from so long ago. I wanted to address the needed clarifications, add new parts that add to what a Cosmo Knight is and can do ( Cyber Knights get Zen Fighting, Cosmo Knights get built in long ranged radio.) and to bring their power level (which is high even back then but it has to be considering what a Cosmo Knight is and does) and polish it to reflect the growth of all the other O.C.C.s, R.C.C.s, and P.C.C.s.

***Note: I am not too familiar with RIFTS vamps, and other creatures that are impervious to most things - are they still affected by beings with Supernatural PS normally? If so, I think I would take off the "energy blast hurting otherwise invulnerable targets", as they obviously have a means of affecting said threat.

It has come up before that creatures like Vampires and the like which are immune to normal energy but effected by magical and psionic attacks. I noted this to reflect that a Cosmo Knight's Comic Blast is not normal but something akin to magical or psionic in nature and thus hurts them the same. But magic like impervious to energy makes whomever also immune to Cosmic Energy Blasts. I will add note of this to the description to clarify. Also while yes you can smack a Rifts Vampire around with Super Natural Strength they regenerate like something mad and no one not even dragons wants to get close to them because they could kill even a Cosmo Knight or Dragon.

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:20 am

I have updated the above revised posting of the O.C.C. with minor corrections to reflect errors I made while referencing the Cosmo Knight O.C.C.

Thank you Malakai for bringing these to my attention. :ok:

Malakai · Unread post by **Malakai** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:05 pm

VR Dragon wrote:So to address your points.

1) MDC - the better of the two is never listed. Granted, this issue would rarely come up, but i can see the possibility there, given the tables for creating your own race in PW. Leave them at the standard for CKs

While this was not listed I drew from the prior listing of "Which ever is higher" under the attributes portion of the O.C.C. Again if the Cosmic forge turns some creature that as a race has 1d6 X 100 MDC why would the cosmic forge make this lower?

Actually, that level is specifically limited against being a Cosmo-Knight, since it's a "Supernatural MDC Being". What I was referring to was the level underneath (3D6x10+2D6 per level), Humanoid Mineral (+3D6x10), Abrasive Atmosphere (+3D6x10); Total of 9D6x10+2D6 per level. The average is 10 points more, even counting a 15th level CK's extra 2D6 per level. Liek I said, not a big difference, but enough of one, since they get it all at the beginning. I can see your reasoning, though.

2) Psionics - My problem here is that, as written, I can have a CK with 9 Minor Powers and 2 Super-Psychic abilities - none of which are "needed", like a telepathy for an otherwise mute race. This is why I would separate things between Adaptations (such as the above mentioned telepathy) and Powers (like Psi-Sword). Anything that is an adaptation I would allow, otherwise drop it - the "Body and soul has been seared and reshaped by the Cosmic Forge", after all

First, Palladium Psionics System is far from being powerful. I don't recall any minor psionic power in palladium that I find as overpowering. Super Psionic powers are on a different level and I agree that choosing psi sword would be on the red flagged list. But no psionic being can have Psi sword, or any of the other good powers before being 3rd level and the only way such a psionic being can gain more powers than 9 minor and 2 super is to choose and Psionic Character Class but the forge would make them lose any such gained powers as they lose any prior O.C.C. powers or abilities once they become a knight. Palladium already has this fail safe built in I didn't see it needing to be restated.

9 Minor and 2 Super - There are several powers that are Super and very nasty, especially for a CK:

Supers

Minors

All of these can boost a CKs effectiveness and, more importantly, many of them take away from the drama of playing a CK. Not sure about that guy's motives? Well, a little empathy will help out there. who's this guy walking by? Let's see his aura, and detect if he's Evil while we're at it. Damn, that villian got away - let's use See the Invisible so I can bring him to justice!

Very, very big avenue for abuse. It also takes away the threat of Psionics being used against them, as it effectively grants them a +3 against Psychic abilities.

4) Flight . . . . . . . .

I addressed water speeds only because of water worlds. As water is technically just a thicker atmosphere I didn't feel a need to reduce speeds since a Cosmo Knight shouldn't be affected by such a trival matter. This opens arguments for "How thick is thick" and felt it better to run that line of mess off from the start. But again a GM is more then free to impose any adjustments they feel is conducive to their stories.

FTL Speeds where listed in the original book as 1 light year per level, I just added the per hour as this is what I assumed to be implied since all other speeds in the American English systems of measurements is generally Something per hour. Also A Cosmo Knight is ment to be a Comic Policeman and should be able to arrive at places of need quickly. Since speed goes up per level a more experienced knight should be able to get there faster. As for ships of the massive size why should they be able to out speed a Cosmo knight? They use engines and a Cosmo Knight turns into pure cosmic energy. Energy beats mass for speeds all the time in science. As for the cost of 30 it is actually given as 30 P.P.E. A Cosmo Knight would only need to burn MDC if they were out of juice.

I wouldn't consider moving through water so quickly as a "trivial" matter - since moving at such speeds (even at second level) is better than any other being/object out there aside from the Intruders. Also, as I have mentioned elsewhere, the speed was listed in the FAQ of Rifter #15, page 18, as 5 LY/H. The massive ships are able to go fast because they can supply the power sources needed to do so. a lone Cosmo-Knight, as powerful as they are, should have their match somewhere. Levae something for a villain to escape in :-)

. And the cost for FTL is 30 PPE and 30 MDC, aas written in PW. That was what I was referring to.

6) Bio-Regeneration:

This is what they are though. Cosmo Knights are batteries for Cosmic Energies (P.P.E. in this case). They cannot tap into ley lines since they are not magic users. The only things a Cosmo Knight uses their P.P.E. for is charging up their cosmic energy blasts in space, flying around FTL, and other small things. The reason they have such high amounts of power is it takes a lot to destroy a big space ship and to even get past their force fields. They have few uses for P.P.E. they just have a load of it so they don't fine themselves strapped for power when they need it. As for healing "Burn" damage, a Cosmo Knight has a lot of MDC and is meant to fight big bad threats to planets and the like. They are built tough and recover quickly to be able to keep battling evil of high level threats. Since this evil his tough and recovers quickly you should fight like with like.

My point being CKs get 1D6x100+1D4x10 per level PPE - average of 320+ at first level. They will typically start with 5 attacks ('cause most everyone will take boxing), meaning you have 5x1D6x50x6. 5,100 average for first level without burning MDC - enough to take out anything under a Frigate single-handed (sometimes even 2 or more targets). Get up to 3rd level, and now your dishing out 5x2D6x50x7 = 12,250 on average - There goes your frigates. By 5th level we got 3D6x10 normal, up to over 400 PPE, and an extra attack, so 6x3D6x50x8 = 25,200 - not quite Kreeghor Smasher-Death, but getting close -to be fair, your likely never going to get to the point of taking out the bigger ships single-handed, but a few of you, together, and it's all over.

My point is, you've already got enough PPE to do what you need - you shouldn't be eating into your MDC all too often.

7) In regards to the Weapon being able to be dismissed at will

I felt that a Cosmo Knight's weapon and armor are manifestsations of their Comic Energies since they have to permanently give up these MDC or PPE points they should have control over how it is used. The whole business of Cosmo Knights having their weapons stolen and going so far as even falling to recover them while sounding like a great plot hook felt more contrived then logical considering the other aspects of the Cosmo Knight O.C.C. If no one can remove a Cosmo Knight's armor and steal that then their weapons should fallow the same logic and rules. But again a GM can make any change they feel is conducive to their games and story lines.

Well ,you could always assume that the attmept (to remove a Ck's Armor) would kill them before it was completed :twisted:

But it's a drawback to creating the Cosmic Weapon - it could be used against people if you are careless with it.

8) Shield-Power for the Cosmic Weapon

I thought this aspect of the power over a lot and felt it would be better suited to treat a Cosmo Knight's Force field like any other force field as far as function and recharge rates. One, why should a force field not be able to be used when it still has MDC available. Second, all other force fields are normally given a cool down and recovery time so I applied this after reviewing other force field systems. Third, the power didn't give a limit to how many points a Cosmo knight was limited to so I aplpied a the limit of the highest point cost any of the other powers had which was 50. And the idea of someone walking around with 1000 point force fields scares many GMs as it is. I wanted to be sure a Cosmo Knight had a chance of being allowed into a given game story. But GMs feel free to change what you feel is needed.

Well, that's the same issue you get when casting any kind oof similiar armor or defensive spell or Telekinetic Force Field - once the duration is up, that's it. The only ones that as a rule recharge are the technological ones - which certainly doesn't fit the CK. Also, i don't think there should be a limit - the drawbacks are having to give up the PPE/MDC.

9) Second Weapon

It was asked why people wanted Cosmo Knights to have second weapons. Well it's on the cover of books and in their O.C.C. Pictures of knights with 2 glowing comic weapons. The cost for a second weapon is no different then having 1 weapon that does 2d4X10 MD which costs 30 ( 80 points total 50 + 30 for extra damage). I felt if they would rather have 2 weapons that did 1D4 X 10 MD they could since it worked out to be the same. But taking into account the extra damage from their SNPS a second weapon would add in I could see the cost being 50 which is the cost of creating 1 comic weapon to start with. but for the sake of how many MDC a Cosmo Knight has I wouldn't want to make it weaken them to much and the forge would logically put some limit on this spending spree. GMs should feel free to change again what they feel is needed.

I consider a cost higher than 50 because of the added benefits that you would typically get with Paired weapons, including protection from Simultaneous Attack, double attacks, and otherwise, but 50 is fine.

10) MDC Conversion - leave it as it is in the book - 2:1 MDC to PPE Conversion, and as mentioned above, heal it slowly.

This was an Error on my part it was ment to stay the same. But I don't see the need for it healing slowly. What is slowly by your reckoning? 2-10 points a day? Cosmo Knights being down for the count for weeks to months is not logical given the forces they are created to meet and defeat. 1D4 X 10 per minute is the natural healing rate for a Cosmo Knight.

Well, Technically I'm just suggesting that they shouldn't be able to Bio-Regenerate the "Burn".

let's take the most extreme example, a Max MDC CK Burning all the down to 1 MDC for PPE - how long?
323 MDC at level 1, at 6 MDC a day, would take 54 days to recover, or 8 weeks. While that may seem like a lot, that CK just got 160 PPE out of himself. Bio-Regenerating, it would have taken only 14 minutes. Think about that - this would mean a CK can cranks out 50 PPE EVERY 4 minutes and be none the worse for the wear. That's 750 PPE and hour, 18,000 PPE a day. I guess I know what my Fallen CK is going to use to power his Arcane Mark II Patrol Ship . . . . . . . . . .

I just feel there should be a cost to powering it through your own Body.
How about healing 5 times normal - 30 MDC a day would mean he'd just be out for less than a couple weeks?

11) Remove the cosmic telepathy - it's not needed. I mean, ever notice how all CKs have Radio: Basic? Give them the radio and have them use it.

Yes, they get Radio Basic. But cosmic armor is "Skin Tight" so there wouldn't be room for any standard radio. Plus they cannot talk in space due to lack of a medium for sound to travel through. Also it was pointed out that a cosmo knight lacked any way to communicate with star ships they are battling or helping. Hard to reply to/hear/ or give requests for help or demands for surrender without some method of communication. Bionic or Cybernetics is not an option since their bodies purge them. Magic isn't an option since they are not spell casters. It was left to some type of telepathy and for telepathy to work with/on machines it would need be telemechanical in nature as well. It was far simpler to just make a super watered down version of a generic telepathy power and slap a long long long range on it. Also the aspects of mentally sensing for people was designed more for people lost floating in space and not searching for people on a planet. Hence the large penalties for being around groups of people.

Well, let me ask this - what happens to those clothes your CK was wearing? what about their chronograph? Ever notice how NONE of the CKs show their mouth? I always took it that they wore a headset underneath thier helmet/armor - makes more sense to me than giving them some new power, and gives a reason why they all know how to work a radio. And really, if you're concerned with the air issue, you could always press the mic to the armor itself - the vibrations will carry through.

And, there's always visual communication - I mean, what happens if they don't speak you language to begin with?

12) I'm good with everything from #10, except the "Abilities" part - I would like to see it restricted to senses and adaptations, to cut down on cheese.

I actually thought it would be better to add these parts in considering they are the most commonly run into forms of natural abilities most races have. I increased the ranges given the distances a cosmo knight deals with in space (200 foot nightvision or even 1000 nightvision is a joke for space and space also removes many limitations for senses due to lack of anything to get in the way.) I removed ISP/PPE drains since that is what some races eat and the forge removed that from other races.

I was referring to the CK keeping the Abilities of their race that were not specifically Adaptations or senses. I'm cool witht he removing the need for PPE/ISP. Incidentally, why would you need Night vision in space?

I reviewed the Cyber Knight O.C.C. and modeled my updates to the slight bump they have gained over their many revisions. The slight bump of 1 point was to reflect such changes. It is true they have a high P.P. score that was why I felt only a slight bump was needed.

As for the Master Psychic Classification. I reviewed the intruder creatures for their telepathy and its massive range. While a Cosmo Knight doesn't start with any other psionic powers I felt the sheer range of their telepathic power constituted a Master level of power if any would fit. They lack ISP and other psionic powers (unless their race has them to start with.) but can become mind melter class psychics when they fall. I drew upon these to set their level of psionic power classification.

I don't agree that it was needed - they are already very formidable still. And as I don't see the need for the Telepathy, the basis for the Master Psyhic rating falls away too.

The language boost was to reflect their new telepathic nature. The Galactic lore was added to reflect understanding of alien life forms and other space stuff. Galactic Law was added since they are wonder police officers and should know what laws they would be called upon to uphold and defend. Also this was adapted in part from cyber knights and their training (A Cosmo Knight's training I assumed to be implanted by the Forge upon their joining). I increased the number of O.C.C. other skills to reflect the small level of skills they start off with and to allow for enough knowledge to be gained so they can pass for trained normal people. The skills at second level are a type on my part and will be corrected.

As above - no real need for the telepathic nature, and thus the increased language skill bonus. Galactic Lore I am fine with - it's the Law issue that makes me stop: It should be up to the CK to make sure he obeys the laws - I don't see the Cosmic Forge as keeping tabs on the common law of every major Galactic civilization. In reviewing, I can see the extra two skills as being acceptable - a cursory check shows that they get fewer skills than others, though it could be argued mastering their powers makes the difference

Updating was meant to beef them up some since the level of nearly all other O.C.C. , R.C.C.s and P.C.C.s and increased a noticeable amount since their initial appearance in the books from so long ago. I wanted to address the needed clarifications, add new parts that add to what a Cosmo Knight is and can do ( Cyber Knights get Zen Fighting, Cosmo Knights get built in long ranged radio.) and to bring their power level (which is high even back then but it has to be considering what a Cosmo Knight is and does) and polish it to reflect the growth of all the other O.C.C.s, R.C.C.s, and P.C.C.s.

This is the problem with Power-Creep. to be honest, they can STILL do what they need to, without the improvements. Clarifications, in my opinion, are what is most needed.

. . . . . Also while yes you can smack a Rifts Vampire around with Super Natural Strength they regenerate like something mad and no one not even dragons wants to get close to them because they could kill even a Cosmo Knight or Dragon.

Ummm - I doubt that a CK would have much of a problem with one - you're looking at an absolute minimum of 35 per hit with a basic Cosmic Weapon, more likely 87 on average. Of course, this is just in a "Punch and Judy" situation. I'm guessing,, even at it's best, the Vamp will be dead long before it's regeneration comes into play

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:30 am

mmmmm This is getting very interesting! :::Eating yet more pocorn while listening to this one.:::

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:50 am

9 Minor and 2 Super - There are several powers that are Super and very nasty, especially for a CK:

Supers
Bio-Manipulation
Psionic Invisibility
Psychic Body Field (Somewhat redundant, but has it's uses)
Mind Bond
Hypnotic Suggestion
Electrokinesis (shut down rail guns and Gravity Guns with a glance)
Telemechanics and Telemechanic Paralysis/Possession/Mental operation
Minors
Exorcism
Psychic Diagnosis
Psychic Purficiation
Alter Aura
Impervious to Poisons
Mind Block
Telekinesis
Clairvoyance
Empathy
Intuitive Combat
Machine Ghost
Object Read
Presence Sense
Remote Viewing
See Aura
See the Invisible
Sense Evil
Sense Magic
Sixth Sense
Telepathy

All of these can boost a CKs effectiveness and, more importantly, many of them take away from the drama of playing a CK. Not sure about that guy's motives? Well, a little empathy will help out there. who's this guy walking by? Let's see his aura, and detect if he's Evil while we're at it. Damn, that villian got away - let's use See the Invisible so I can bring him to justice!

Very, very big avenue for abuse. It also takes away the threat of Psionics being used against them, as it effectively grants them a +3 against Psychic abilities.

Yes, it can be abused but that is one part of being a GM is. Not Allowing things to become so. Also as to the powers listed and what the description says under psionic powers in the race creation rules in PW. All the psionic powers chosen must fit a pattern like all telepathic in nature or such. No just picking and choosing what makes you extra beefy. The examples you gave I will go into. Empathy, okay so you can sense the guy is lying and other emotional states it is not telepathy and the form of telepathy I modeled for a CK doesn't allow you to probe a person's mind or memories its just a glorified walky talky or cell phone at best and can only pick up thoughts that are communicative in nature. See arua, it tells you if they are sick, possessed, have high PPE or are Psionic doesn't help much but gives some information. I do not see how this can be abused when a simple mind block hides all this and altar aura changes it. Detect evil only allows you to sense super natural evil or someone who is diabolic aligne, it doesn't work like D&D's detect evil for Paladins. Seeing invisible only works at best on the invisibility simple spell or creatures who turn invisible by nature, there are plenty of other ways for a bad guy to get away such as teleportation of some form, plain hiding from the prowl skill (while harder to pull of now not impossible), shape shifting or any other manor of ways. To address the point of using some powers to disarm someone with telemechanics or the like, sure they are disarmed but as a CK you cannot continue to attack them or kill them if they are basicly unarmed and no real threat to the CK anymore. Restraining is fine and encouraged by the forge killing is only as a last resort, this is one of the walking the tight rope and falling issues.

As far as taking away the threat of Psionics being used against them I do not see the full logic to this. Okay so you cannot use telepathy on them as well but they can still fail rolls, you cannot mentally possess other them so easy either, you may not be able to bio-manipulate them easy too, theses are minor issues at best as all other aspects of psionics will effect them normally since not much else requires a save vs psionics. If you cannot mind control them them use psi-swords, super TK boulders into them, lock them in a TK Force field and run like hell (Only you have a 5 second head start at the least), Also it was not stated that psionics was a weakness and a cosmo knight could always roll low stats. As always a Cosmo Knight really only had only magic as their real weakness.

FTL Flight , PPE and MDC. Sorry I missed that as well and is a type on my behalf. 30 PPE is expended and 30 MDC is temporally lost but healed normally. I will correct this in my posting. but since they heal so quickly whats the real point? I was aware of the rifter posting about 5 LY/H but considered the orginal form from the PW book simply better. If their atmospheric flight goes up per level and it was stated that their FTL fight also did why would you just go with a lump and unchanging sum of 5 LY/H. I find the grows with experience model a better ideal then the rifer's. I also take what is in the rifters as suggestions and I didn't like that one. But feel free to do as you want for the speeds. Besides if you want a villian to excape I would try something more clever then I outrun them. Try 2 or more ships suddenly flying away in different directions. A lone cosmo knight can only catch one the rest get away.

Flying under water is treated as you want to treat it. I considered it from the angel that they are super strong, super tough, and are able to fly through stars and space. Why would or should water slow them down. Adjust speeds as you feel fitting. All I am doing is posting suggested updates. Add, remove, or ignore what you as the GM feels not right for your world.

My point being CKs get 1D6x100+1D4x10 per level PPE - average of 320+ at first level. They will typically start with 5 attacks ('cause most everyone will take boxing), meaning you have 5x1D6x50x6. 5,100 average for first level without burning MDC - enough to take out anything under a Frigate single-handed (sometimes even 2 or more targets). Get up to 3rd level, and now your dishing out 5x2D6x50x7 = 12,250 on average - There goes your frigates. By 5th level we got 3D6x10 normal, up to over 400 PPE, and an extra attack, so 6x3D6x50x8 = 25,200 - not quite Kreeghor Smasher-Death, but getting close -to be fair, your likely never going to get to the point of taking out the bigger ships single-handed, but a few of you, together, and it's all over.

My point is, you've already got enough PPE to do what you need - you shouldn't be eating into your MDC all too often.

Cosmo Knights are DESIGNED to fight and destory space ships and space level threats that's why a they get so much power and are so powerful. They are walking Star Fighters. The only reason they get so much PPE is to power their Cosmic Energy Blasts which can only be do so while in space. A Cosmo Knight should not have just enough power to take out a small fighter then say " Oh damn I am out of power now, So I must rest hours till I can rejoin the fight." They can handle multiple threats. True as you say they won't be burning MDC often and they should be. But if they are ever in an intense need and are tapped they are given an option for some extra juice even if it kills them.

Well ,you could always assume that the attmept (to remove a Ck's Armor) would kill them before it was completed

But it's a drawback to creating the Cosmic Weapon - it could be used against people if you are careless with it.

The better drawback is losing 50-100 MDC/PPE. If you payed for it in this manor and not with simple credits then sorry but no one has a right to so easily take it away from you. Villians have enough weapons and things at there disposel I don't see the need to add this to the list. Also as the Cosmic Forge I would not allow some weapon I give to my defenders to be so easily used against those I created them to protect. Bad guys need a super weapon give them a rune sword or whatever.

Well, that's the same issue you get when casting any kind oof similiar armor or defensive spell or Telekinetic Force Field - once the duration is up, that's it. The only ones that as a rule recharge are the technological ones - which certainly doesn't fit the CK. Also, i don't think there should be a limit - the drawbacks are having to give up the PPE/MDC.

Yes, you give up PPE/MDC for it but a force field works like a force field from my view. They have a damage cape, they recharge slowly, and they have a activity limited before needed time to rest. I examined the options and while a spell does not recharge its also not like it costs a lot of PPE to recast the spell and renew a spell's MDC amount. If anything I am more inclined to increase the MDC limit of 500 to 1000 for 100 MDC/PPE. But I find the first better to prevent CKs hiding behind force fields until bad guys run out of ammo that can hurt the CK then cleaning the bad guys clocks.

Well, Technically I'm just suggesting that they shouldn't be able to Bio-Regenerate the "Burn".

let's take the most extreme example, a Max MDC CK Burning all the down to 1 MDC for PPE - how long?
323 MDC at level 1, at 6 MDC a day, would take 54 days to recover, or 8 weeks. While that may seem like a lot, that CK just got 160 PPE out of himself. Bio-Regenerating, it would have taken only 14 minutes. Think about that - this would mean a CK can cranks out 50 PPE EVERY 4 minutes and be none the worse for the wear. That's 750 PPE and hour, 18,000 PPE a day. I guess I know what my Fallen CK is going to use to power his Arcane Mark II Patrol Ship . . . . . . . . . .

I just feel there should be a cost to powering it through your own Body.
How about healing 5 times normal - 30 MDC a day would mean he'd just be out for less than a couple weeks?

There is a cost to this burning for PPE. They lose the MDC. To much burning and someone with a rail gun will take them out in lucky shot. Also to increase the recovery time doesn't make much sense as it will lead to more players not wanting to risk hurting themselves to help others. MDC burning doesn't come up often and as a rule I wouldn't allow a Cosmo Knight to burn MDC until all PPE is gone. Also the quick recharging and healing helps to ensure Cosmo Knights are every ready to combat evil. If they take forever to recover like some mortal (this is a weakness of being a mortal and thus was removed by the forge in the first place.) then Cosmo knights would just be hounded to death like so much other force for good is and having 300 or 3000 MDC isn't going to help if you get swarmed by a bunch of minions who beat you senseless, one life drain spell and your already down to 1/2 your MDC, do it again and they are pretty much good as dead unless you can get away for a few minutes and recuperate.

Also while crunching the numbers you see Cosmo Knights do get alot of power if they tap themselves out a lot. but during this process they would leave themselves to open of a target for an easy kill. This is just munchkin behavior and No GM should allow it. Sure giving PPE to a mage ( who is limited to taking half anyways) is a lot of power and a mage might look upon a CK as a walking PPE Battery. But Think of what a Good mage dealing with a CK would be dealing with. He would be running out of power quickly and in space Ley Lines are as common as on a planet. It's being helpful, just watch out for CKs who help Techno Wizards build things that can quickly get out of hand, then again rift jumping PPE batteries take alot to recharge.

Well, let me ask this - what happens to those clothes your CK was wearing? what about their chronograph? Ever notice how NONE of the CKs show their mouth? I always took it that they wore a headset underneath thier helmet/armor - makes more sense to me than giving them some new power, and gives a reason why they all know how to work a radio. And really, if you're concerned with the air issue, you could always press the mic to the armor itself - the vibrations will carry through.

And, there's always visual communication - I mean, what happens if they don't speak you language to begin with?

Okay lets look at this problem that seems to be sticking in so many craws. Communicating in space. You need a radio and well CKs get radio basic as a skill. Okay, fine. But how reliable is a radio? How common are radio singles scrambled, jammed , etc. Well a Cosmo Knight could wear one but their armor wouldn't protect it and one blast or explosion would destroy it, or flying someplace too hot or cold (Being in direct sunlight in space can be 320+ degrees F or -230 or more cold) would destroy most unshielded simple radios. So you have a flee of small fighters rail gun using fighters attacking a cosmo knight.

Quick jam his radio so he cannot call for help or warn someone!

Shoot him with a missile to knock out his Radio!

Radio Signals take along time to travel great distances, and are limited in ranges. The Proposed range of 250 thousand miles is long on a planet but in space would just reach the moon from earth orbit. This range also only works for non Cosmo Knights as a CK cannot reach normal minds beyond that distance.

A limited form of telepathy that worked like a radio worked better to solve the problems. Telepathy is not affected by language barriers. No need to be contrived or causing fuss with picky GMs over "Can I wear a radio while in my Cosmic Armor?". Also for sanity sake just assume the clothing is stored the same place the armor came from or the clothing turns into the armor and would appear shredded if the armor was badly damaged.

I was referring to the CK keeping the Abilities of their race that were not specifically Adaptations or senses. I'm cool witht he removing the need for PPE/ISP. Incidentally, why would you need Night vision in space?

Space is Dark and full of stars. Night vision amplifies ambient light so faint objects can be seen. Sure there are stars and a sun out there but space is dark for a reason. So their eyes are just good at working in low light situations. Least I figured it so.

I don't agree that it was needed - they are already very formidable still. And as I don't see the need for the Telepathy, the basis for the Master Psyhic rating falls away too.

Yes they are formidable we agree there. But it was brought up that a CK could not communicate with other in space and so ideas where thrown about for some communicative power for a cosmo knight. Some proposed allowing the to manipulate radio waves and be a living radio like the phantom RCC does. I didn't think this was as fitting to the O.C.C. I already covered my reasons for choosing a form of telepathy. And all other races with telepathy that reaches this far all fell into the power level of master psychics. Look at other races which are not master psychics themselves but get counted as such, a good example is dog boys and psi stalkers. Yes they are major sensitives but they don't have mind melter power levels but their psychic senses are off the chart. I selected only one power and limited to such an extent that is can only be used to communicate nothing else so they get to be master psychics.

As above - no real need for the telepathic nature, and thus the increased language skill bonus. Galactic Lore I am fine with - it's the Law issue that makes me stop: It should be up to the CK to make sure he obeys the laws - I don't see the Cosmic Forge as keeping tabs on the common law of every major Galactic civilization. In reviewing, I can see the extra two skills as being acceptable - a cursory check shows that they get fewer skills than others, though it could be argued mastering their powers makes the difference

So you think someone charged with protecting the universe to have no idea about the laws of the different star spanning they will be dealing with? Sorry it is basic training for every one with some form of police powers to know the laws they are working with. Why is this even a problem? While the cosmic forge may not keep tabs on the laws of the various worlds Galactic law applies to the laws layed down and followed by the star spanning powers that the Cosmo Knights deal with in their area of the three galaxies.There aren't many empires in the Three Galaxies and most have stand commonalities, IT does not cover local planetary laws. A cosmo knight will not arrive on some small back water tribe level planet and know that sneezing at the chief's daughter counts as a death threat and can only be solved by marrying her.

This is the problem with Power-Creep. to be honest, they can STILL do what they need to, without the improvements. Clarifications, in my opinion, are what is most needed.

Power creep happens and if Kevin put it in the books I figure he knows what he is doing for the most part. I accept power creep as standard evolutionary progress. Yes and CK and do what they do without the stuff I proposed but the extra stuff allows them to do it just as before but with new twits that add to the game not destroy it. Do what you feel is best for your game.

Ummm - I doubt that a CK would have much of a problem with one - you're looking at an absolute minimum of 35 per hit with a basic Cosmic Weapon, more likely 87 on average. Of course, this is just in a "Punch and Judy" situation. I'm guessing,, even at it's best, the Vamp will be dead long before it's regeneration comes into play

Rifts Vampires are immune to basicly everything except MAGIC Fire, normal water, true sunlight, wooden weapons, holy symbols, etc etc etc. They are not damaged by any normal energy or non-magical weapon (Vibro swords, rail guns, punches), plus they can turn into mist. They regenerate 2d6 MDC per melee (8d6 per minute) can fight even with massive negative HPs, are shown to recover from being staked through the heart in 15 seconds if the stake is moved out, they can regrow everything short of a day. Beating a vampire to a pulp with SN PS doesn't ensure it is dead it will just rise again unless treated in special ways. Wild vampires travel in packs and can quickly whittle a CK down to nothing by overwhelming him. A CK's only sure way off the top would be to have their Cosmic Blasts count as True Sunlight to stand a chance to kill a Vampire without having the other stuff needed to kill them. OF course ripping up a wooden tree and bludgeoning one might work for a few blows.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:12 am

:::Eating popcorn as the next round begins.::: Anyone want any? THis is getting good!

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:58 pm

I almost can't wait for someone to suggest a Phase World/Heroes Unlimited crossover class: The Mega Cosmo-Knight!

Hey, it's better than a Giga-Knight conversion. Oops, his Giga-Cosmic blast just shot Splynncryth, thus he never existed to conquer Atlantis. Next!

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:54 pm

I've already done something along that line in my own game.

Malakai · Unread post by **Malakai** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:00 pm

VR Dragon wrote:Yes, it can be abused but that is one part of being a GM is. Not Allowing things to become so. Also as to the powers listed and what the description says under psionic powers in the race creation rules in PW. All the psionic powers chosen must fit a pattern like all telepathic in nature or such. No just picking and choosing what makes you extra beefy. The examples you gave I will go into . . . . . . . .

Spread #1 - the Mind-Control / Mentalist theme

Supers:

Minors:

Spread #2 - the Electro-Physical / Machinist spread

Supers:

Minors:

Both can give the CK extreme advantages / take away from many scenarios in which the "Classic" CK would have had to resort to ingenuity, or - gasp - teamwork! I think something that has been lost in the discussion iss the fact the CK's shouldn't be able to do it all - they should need others. After all, if they didn't need anyone else . . . . . . . .
Also, the information gleaned from some powers can be very telling - If all the CK has to do is activate a power to tell that someone is possessed instead of being cautious and reading the unusual actions of one of their companions, it can take away from the story. Same if they can then just force it out with another power. Being able to identify Supernatural Evil beings automatically, without cost, is a powerful ability, being able to then track them means they become much more efficient in their jobs - perhaps to efficient, from a story perspective. And, as far as I am aware, See Invisible sees all forms of invisibility, not just Invisibility: Simple, so yes, it is that powerful.

As far as taking away the threat of Psionics being used against them I do not see the full logic to this. Okay so you cannot use telepathy on them as well but they can still fail rolls, you cannot mentally possess other them so easy either, you may not be able to bio-manipulate them easy too, theses are minor issues at best as all other aspects of psionics will effect them normally since not much else requires a save vs psionics.

The difference is now they save much more often - 15-25% more often. And while not explicitly stated, Psionics has alway been something they would have to contend with - giving them this that any psychic nemesis is now severely handicapped

If you cannot mind control them them use psi-swords, super TK boulders into them, lock them in a TK Force field and run like hell (Only you have a 5 second head start at the least), Also it was not stated that psionics was a weakness and a cosmo knight could always roll low stats. As always a Cosmo Knight really only had only magic as their real weakness.

So, you would have a psychic enemy STOP being a Psychic and try to PHYSICALLY BEST the CK? No Psi-Sword is going to match their cosmic weapon and Supernatural strength, TKing boulders into them is a joke - even assuming you hit, with a 1,000 lbs rock - you do 1D4x10 . . . . . . at the cost of 100 ISP? Something they will healing within a minute, and they could easily vaporize said stone with a couple blasts - rending you, once again, weaponless and now out a hundred ISP. And run away? how fast do you move? Cause that knight flies at MACH 1 per level - I don't think you're going to be able to run away from him.

Oh, and now that youve let them have Psychic powers, they can use said powers to find you, so good luck trying to hide.

Leave the Psychic Villian a chance to actually BE a Psychic Villian

Besides if you want a villian to excape I would try something more clever then I outrun them. Try 2 or more ships suddenly flying away in different directions. A lone cosmo knight can only catch one the rest get away.

So you prefer to have it as an arbitrary "He get's away, no matter what you do"? That's what you seem to be presenting here - no matter which ship the CK goes after, it will be the wrong one. I'd rather have it as a reason the Cosmo-Knight should need to work with others - because they can't do it all alone.

Cosmo Knights are DESIGNED to fight and destory space ships and space level threats that's why a they get so much power and are so powerful. They are walking Star Fighters. The only reason they get so much PPE is to power their Cosmic Energy Blasts which can only be do so while in space. A Cosmo Knight should not have just enough power to take out a small fighter then say " Oh damn I am out of power now, So I must rest hours till I can rejoin the fight." They can handle multiple threats. True as you say they won't be burning MDC often and they should be. But if they are ever in an intense need and are tapped they are given an option for some extra juice even if it kills them.

Umm, go through the numbers again, I said a First-level CK - one right out of the fires of the forge itself, can destroy at least 2 fighters before being "dry" - or one military shuttle (say goodbye to everything it was carrying that can't fly on it's own power). By level 3 - a CK that has seen some action - he can fraking take out a Frigate single-handedly - or a whole squadron of fighters - So, yeah, they have plenty of power that they shouldn't be burning into their MDC that often. All I'm saying is that their should be some game-mechanical reason that they should consider their options and think before they blow through all of their PPE

The better drawback is losing 50-100 MDC/PPE. If you payed for it in this manor and not with simple credits then sorry but no one has a right to so easily take it away from you.Tell that to any caster or creates a magic weapon (I don't recall the specific spell) - it also costs permanent PPE, and they can lose it just as easily. As with Golems, etc . . Villians have enough weapons and things at there disposel I don't see the need to add this to the list. Also as the Cosmic Forge I would not allow some weapon I give to my defenders to be so easily used against those I created them to protect. Bad guys need a super weapon give them a rune sword or whatever.

Well, first you say it's the Knights that make the weapon, now you're saying it's the Forge that does? The Description in the book states that they can be lost or stolen, and that knights often fall trying to get them back - ignoring this is taking away from the original concept, and taking away a vulnerability of the Weapon-wielding knight. Don't want to lose your cosmic weapon? then don't make one.

Yes, you give up PPE/MDC for it but a force field works like a force field from my view . . . . . . .

Then none of the magic spells or Psychic powers are considered force-fields? The only fields that work like that are tech ones - something that I think we can both agree is not the source of the CK's Force-Field. Again, this is removing a weakness of the power for no legitimate reason - use it appropriately, or you could, indeed, waste it.

There is a cost to this burning for PPE. They lose the MDC. To much burning and someone with a rail gun will take them out in lucky shot. Also to increase the recovery time doesn't make much sense as it will lead to more players not wanting to risk hurting themselves to help others.

In looking back over such, specifically seeing the numbers again, I can drop the issue of a slower healing for "burn" damage, though, in the alternative, I would like to have it rules that when you burn MDC for PPE, it can ONLY be used for your Cosmo-Knight abilities, and not shared with anyone else (to prevent PPE-Battery-ness from occurring)

Okay lets look at this problem that seems to be sticking in so many craws. Communicating in space. You need a radio and well CKs get radio basic as a skill. Okay, fine. But how reliable is a radio?

As reliable as one else's radio - I don't see this as a bad thing.

How common are radio singles scrambled, jammed , etc. Well a Cosmo Knight could wear one but their armor wouldn't protect it and one blast or explosion would destroy it, or flying someplace too hot or cold (Being in direct sunlight in space can be 320+ degrees F or -230 or more cold) would destroy most unshielded simple radios. So you have a flee of small fighters rail gun using fighters attacking a cosmo knight.

Quick jam his radio so he cannot call for help or warn someone!

Shoot him with a missile to knock out his Radio!

Well, YOU are making the determination that the radio couldn't go under the armor with yur statement above - I suggest it can, given the artwork, the fact that they all have the skill with it, and no description contrary to the fact - all of which (to me) point to the fact that they can and do wear such devices underneath their armor and use them to communicate. And as such, they would be protected by said armor

Radio Signals take along time to travel great distances, and are limited in ranges. The Proposed range of 250 thousand miles is long on a planet but in space would just reach the moon from earth orbit. This range also only works for non Cosmo Knights as a CK cannot reach normal minds beyond that distance.

Well, first off, I would point out that your range on that power is greater than the sensor ranges on most ships - far, far too excessive in my opinion. Especially when you consider that the CK can't engage anything beyond 10 miles away to begin with - so the excuse of needing it to accept surrender is absurd. Given the level of tech, an CK can have an ear piece the size of a blue-tooth head set that can communicate to any radio within 20 miles (don't believe me, look at a Video Communicator (RUE, page 263), Portable Computer (RUE, page 262) and Holographic Personal Computer (PW, page 143) - these are examples of the small size and level of tech in RIFTS, and then a comparison to the more-advanced level of tech available in PW). They have the skill, the equipment is easy to get, so let them use it - it makes no sense to deny it to them, and then give them something 50,000 times better.
And, as for the speed issue - 186,000 miles per second - little discernible lag, even at your ranges.

A limited form of telepathy that worked like a radio worked better to solve the problems. Telepathy is not affected by language barriers. No need to be contrived or causing fuss with picky GMs over "Can I wear a radio while in my Cosmic Armor?". Also for sanity sake just assume the clothing is stored the same place the armor came from or the clothing turns into the armor and would appear shredded if the armor was badly damaged.

So, to reiterate, you're giving them this huge, grand power to solve a problem that - at worst - could have been solved by just saying they can wear a radio under their armor? And now you're saying that the armor either trades places with, or turns into, the Cosmic Armor, instead of just having the Cosmic Armor go over said clothing? I think you're going way too far here - make it simply, and keep true to the original concept.

Radio under armor = VERY close to original concept.
Granted super-radio-telepathy power = not close to original concept.

Also, as his power is the justification for making them a master-rated Psychic, this addition includes that benefit as well, which is uncalled for and further takes the CK away from it's original concept.

Space is Dark and full of stars. Night vision amplifies ambient light so faint objects can be seen. Sure there are stars and a sun out there but space is dark for a reason. So their eyes are just good at working in low light situations. Least I figured it so.

I don't see it as that dark - I mean, the vast majority of the time you will be within a star-system - plenty of light all around. Remember that that bright, shining heavenly body we call the Moon is just reflecting the sunlight that hits it - and that all the planets and moons do like wise, and that all the light from the stars doesn't have to pass through an atmosphere for you to see it in space . . . . . I am confident that there is enough light to not need night-vision to see.

So you think someone charged with protecting the universe to have no idea about the laws of the different star spanning they will be dealing with? Sorry it is basic training for every one with some form of police powers to know the laws they are working with. Why is this even a problem? While the cosmic forge may not keep tabs on the laws of the various worlds Galactic law applies to the laws layed down and followed by the star spanning powers that the Cosmo Knights deal with in their area of the three galaxies.There aren't many empires in the Three Galaxies and most have stand commonalities, IT does not cover local planetary laws. A cosmo knight will not arrive on some small back water tribe level planet and know that sneezing at the chief's daughter counts as a death threat and can only be solved by marrying her.

So long as it is just a general knowledge, I am fine with it. obeying the local laws is mentioned within the code itself, and since they do get so few skills, I can accept that as a freebie.

This is the problem with Power-Creep. to be honest, they can STILL do what they need to, without the improvements. Clarifications, in my opinion, are what is most needed.

Power creep happens and if Kevin put it in the books I figure he knows what he is doing for the most part. I accept power creep as standard evolutionary progress. Yes and CK and do what they do without the stuff I proposed but the extra stuff allows them to do it just as before but with new twits that add to the game not destroy it. Do what you feel is best for your game.

I feel that much of your proposed "extra stuff" does, in fact, take away from the inherent role-playing aspects of the CK, making them more capable than they should be.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:47 pm

Braden Campbell wrote:OK... once again, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, so I just have to ask: why do people want the Cosmo-Kinghts to be able to wield paired (or multiple) weapons and to have children?

Primus, because nothing specifically states they can't spend more PPE/ MDC for an additional weapon.
Secundus, it's an OCC like any other, so why shouldn't they be able to have children?
I know your arguement: Half-Cosmo-Knights.
Which makes me wonder if your campaign is rife with Half-Juicers and Half-Ley Line Walkers.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:50 pm

gadrin wrote:
Braden Campbell wrote:OK... once again, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, so I just have to ask: why do people want the Cosmo-Kinghts to be able to wield paired (or multiple) weapons and to have children?

Because some players are never satisfied.

I remember going to a gaming convention back in the 80s and sitting down at a table game and looking
over at the guy sitting next to me, some fat kid, and looking at his D&D character sheet:

18th level Monk
18/00 strength (only Fighters can have 18+ strength)
several artifacts from the DMG
several "regular" magic items

I nudged my friend and we looked at each other in horror and left, found another game.

Unfortunately you have to do that, you have to "interview" potential gamers because who the
heck knows where they're coming from.

>

Actually, any class can have an 18 Strength.
Only Fighters, Cavaliers and their sub-classes could get the percentiles added in, however, and of course in 1st edition the caps on said percentiles were somewhat logical.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:06 pm

Braden Campbell wrote:
VR Dragon wrote: One of the things that has always gotten me was the confusion over what the cosmic forge does to the player's racial abilities. Are these lost in the reforging process or do they kept by the newly made knight...

You may not be aware, but you are about to reignite a nasty debate with the posing of this question. Opinion is sharply divided 'round these parts as to whether or not CKs keep their racial abilities be it telepathy, a hightened sense of smell, or an immunity to certain things such as magic or psionics.

In the one camp are those, myself included, who feel that the re-born Knights loose something in accepting the mantle of "protector of the universe" - they may look like a normal member of their race, but by trading their natural abilites for god-like ones, there is now something that will forever set them apart somewhat. It lends a little bitter-sweetness and gravity to the OCC

On the other hand, there are those who think the above is just stupid, and see no reason why they shouldn't be able to draft up a 6th sense-empowered, telepathic Noro Knight or whathaveyou. In the end, like all things in an RPG, it's going to come down to what the Game Master thinks best.

I'm in the camp that thinks powers are lost, but abilities (like being able to see, hear, touch and smell... which some races may or may not be able to do better than others) are kept.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:29 pm

gadrin wrote:Unfortunately you have to do that, you have to "interview" potential gamers because who the
heck knows where they're coming from.

This is the most intelligent thing I've seen on the threads in a while .. and its 100% true ..

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:01 pm

I agree. And sometimes you have to be able to view them under gaming circumstances.

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:32 am

I always liked the Blaze Aliens better however. (Skraypers).
They don't have the massive MDC of a CK, but they can some great blasting powers and energy resistance/immunities. Flight is not bad either...

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:01 pm

TechnoGothic wrote:I always liked the Blaze Aliens better however. (Skraypers).
They don't have the massive MDC of a CK, but they can some great blasting powers and energy resistance/immunities. Flight is not bad either...

How about... a Blayze Cosmo-Knight?

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:35 pm

Vrykolas2k wrote:
TechnoGothic wrote:I always liked the Blaze Aliens better however. (Skraypers).
They don't have the massive MDC of a CK, but they can some great blasting powers and energy resistance/immunities. Flight is not bad either...

How about... a Blayze Cosmo-Knight?

No..they're cosmic enough....

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:20 pm

taalismn wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:
TechnoGothic wrote:I always liked the Blaze Aliens better however. (Skraypers).
They don't have the massive MDC of a CK, but they can some great blasting powers and energy resistance/immunities. Flight is not bad either...

How about... a Blayze Cosmo-Knight?

No..they're cosmic enough....

VR Dragon · Unread post by **VR Dragon** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:47 am

A little old post necromancy

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:09 am

I think the Bhlaze might've already been supernatural, and the Forge doesn't have a known history of CosmoKifying supies.

drewkitty ~..~ · Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:20 pm

The only thing I can see that needs detailed out would be for the class to say whether or not the CK's get the abilities/powers of their former race. At the moment there is just one bit of flavor text that could be taken to mean that they do keep the race's abilities/powers. But this is right after some text that all but says that their past abilities/powers are burned away.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:34 pm

natural traits like advanced smell, claws, 4-arm coordination, tenticles etc i think would be fine to keep as a cosmo knight.

Magic, Psionics (beyond the capability to communicate) and other such things aren't necessary to keep, the Forge is remolding your essence with it's own.

Children aren't an issue really, let them. They won't be born cosmoknights and besides i can't see a CK having much time for family.

Devjannz · Unread post by **Devjannz** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:08 pm

Alrik Vas wrote:natural traits like advanced smell, claws, 4-arm coordination, tenticles etc i think would be fine to keep as a cosmo knight.

Magic, Psionics (beyond the capability to communicate) and other such things aren't necessary to keep, the Forge is remolding your essence with it's own.

Children aren't an issue really, let them. They won't be born cosmoknights and besides i can't see a CK having much time for family.

I would agree with this as well. I would also allow children but they would just be normal members of their race not any type of half creature.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:59 am

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:there is just one bit of flavor text that could be taken to mean that they do keep the race's abilities/powers
some text that all but says that their past abilities/powers are burned away.

So we have text that implies things do not change versus text that does not say anything is changed. I think it's clear the former triumphs.

Alrik Vas wrote:Magic, Psionics (beyond the capability to communicate) and other such things aren't necessary to keep, the Forge is remolding your essence with it's own.

They're not necessary to lose, and such things would be necessary to blend in.

Devjannz wrote:I would also allow children but they would just be normal members of their race not any type of half creature.

One might argue that the supernatural PS of a cosmo-knight could pose a risk to a baby being born though, and while the mother's body would survive combat, it may not be able to nullify force adequately to protect a fetus.

A cosmo-knight getting shot with a 90 SDC blast might very well cause a miscarriage even with the knight not taking damage, purely from the blunt impact.

Also stuff like Caesarians would be a pain.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:01 pm

NMI posted a heroes unlimited "version" of a cosmo knight. many many months ago. with nearly useable conversion rules I think if you ask nicely he would share it so you can have an updated version of well a specialized class.