The Golgan advantage

[glitterboy2098]

as many here probably know, in the upcoming Fleets sourcebook, the Golgans have a Feynmen radio, a means to recieve signals from the future. which in turn has allowed them to change the course of their collapse.

now, for all you who's heads are still aching trying to wrap your minds around messages from the future changing the past, i've found a A visual example of how this would provide an advantage ot the golgans.

the game in question involves bodily time travel, not just changing the past based on knowledge from the future, but it is still a wonderful example. besides, with Temporal magic from WB3 and time magic from TDTMNT, even the latter could be possible.

[Jefffar]

Heh, now the catch comes when the Golgans alter their future so much that whomever it is who decides to send them messages from the future no longer thinks it's necessary to do so and they no longer get those messages.

[Aramanthus]

I think it's going to be interesting to actually get the Fleets book. To actually read the book. Although in my game I have a group who oversee Time travel and they do interfere all of them time with their agents.

[glitterboy2098]

how do you know the golgans can recieve messages from the future. that would make them the most powerful galctic powerblock..............peroid

Braden explains it here

the Golgan's can't become the ultimate power for two reasons.
1) they've already started to collapse, which tends to screw up bids for power.
2) the messages they intercept from the future are constantly changing, and provide only scraps of data.

so they can ensure their fleet is present in sector [number] when planet [name] tries to rebel, but that doesn't solve the inherant flaws in their system causing the rebellions, nor does it mean said fleet was present in the [other name] system to repel an attack by the [race], which was stopped in the other timeline because the fleet received word of the rebellion too late and thus had been close enough to stop the attack.

[Aramanthus]

Interesting analogy GB2098! I think it's very appropriate too. I can see your point very well!

[Greyaxe]

oh i see. tobad they cant time travel and stop all of it from happening.

Actually, we did.......

[Aramanthus]

Now that is an interesting thing. I Hadn't heard that it was from a parallel universe. But that makes alot of sense.

[Braden Campbell]

Ah, yes, the Tachyonic Anti-telephone. Probably my most favourite plot device evah!

The messages are coming from the future, and not a parallel dimension. However, that future keeps changing with every message that is sent back. So sometimes things work out in the (present day) Golgan's favour, but sometimes it does not because the info they recieved through the radio no longer applies, or has been cancelled out/made worse somehow.

The book is undergoing editing right now, so I hope you'll all get to read about it sometime this year.

[Aramanthus]

Hey Braden, are we going to find out how they got the device?

[Braden Campbell]

The robots of Mekanik helped a group of subversive Golgan Gaus' (read. Generals) to build it. Then the Gaus' staged a bloodless coup and took over the Republik.

[Aramanthus]

Cool! Thank you for that little teaser Braden!

[glitterboy2098]

How long before they change the future so it isn't invented?

they can't. it ws invented in their own current past. so unless they physically travel back in time to stop themselves, the radio's existance can't be gotten rid of temporally.

and since the radio exists in the present, and they're receiving messages, it means the radio, or the knowledge needed to build one, has survived to the future point they're getting messages from.

the Golgans can't send a message back to their pre-feynman timeframe and "unmake" the radio, because unti lthe radio is invented, they can't receive the message...

[taalismn]

Temporal Mechanics....the art of making your own head explode...

[Aramanthus]

Good thing there aren't any groups who manipulate time in the PHase World setting. Or else they might have some fun on the expense of the Golgans. By causing them to change their own future for the worse.

[Aramanthus]

Maybe the geovernment will do something that leads to the destruction of the device in the future. Or else maybe the destruction of the Golgan government will meet a nasty ending.

[Klaus027]

Two different factions within the golgan empire start fighting for control of the empire by sending messages back in time. You need to get rid of a political rival, send a message back endangering them in the past. Patrol schedules, diverting resources, and other misinformation that looks like it will help the golgan empire, but really endangers one or two specific people would be occurring with all messages sent.

After a while, could the golgan's really trust themeselves from the future?

[Aramanthus]

I can see how the non static future could cause some serious problems. It might even make it seem like multiple factions.

[GT]

Another Advantage is the Mekanics robots, they are free labor, much like the TGE's machine people. Only these Mekanicoids are willing participants in the Republik, so more motivated to show their worth to THEIR nation. And they them selves can raise the tech level of the Republik shortly.

[taalismn]

The Golgans are taking a lot on trust that the uptime folks really ARE Golgans....
There are SO many ways that can be twisted....

[Greyaxe]

The Golgans are taking a lot on trust that the uptime folks really ARE Golgans....
There are SO many ways that can be twisted....

You would think the author wanted to seed the Anvil galaxy with fresh adventure ideas..........

[taalismn]

The Golgans are taking a lot on trust that the uptime folks really ARE Golgans....
There are SO many ways that can be twisted....

You would think the author wanted to seed the Anvil galaxy with fresh adventure ideas..........

No, Really?

"Oh, and with the profits from the loot you acquire from the conquest of Altess...Put it ALL into a personal CD account under the name By&zagth##ski...Here, lemme spell that out again for you...By&zagth##ski....at 30% interest, and not to be accessible for 300 years...."

[Aramanthus]

Fresh ideas never hurt. Always good to assist each and every GM to enhance the overall game for their players.

[Khanibal]

It's a trick. Novus IX will time-shift. The Argossy will blow into Altess space. Two days later, Novus IX will reappear and the armoria will hit the Golgans from behind. Then they'll get a phone call from a group of future Altess 9 year-olds with a voice modulator. Nyah-nyah-na-nyah-nyah!

[Caballis134269]

Talk about speculation sheesh. Ok there are some very valid points on both sides of this discussion but there are also some shortcomings along with some absent information.

First, the exact time in which the planet with a fair amount of Altess tech disappears, is not known but is a guesstimate that has a few years leeway. Or rather it is not known as of the books that I have. Will this cripple the Altess as some are thinking, absolutely not but it will indeed put a damper on their forces, which btw are still fairly large and powerful.

Second, the robots that are on board all the ships have learning computers, Neural Intelligences. They are also programmed in with the best military programming that anyone can buy, period. They could technically run as many ships as needed without a single Altess on board.

Third, there are one million Armoria which is, by galactic standards, tiny. However, as stated the Altess remember the last time someone attacked them like it was yesterday. Now granted when you don't use a skill it gets rusty, but the military, any/all militaries love their training and various wargames.

Fourth, as has been mentioned before, any psychics ability to tell the future is guesswork at best and applies to all races not just the two in question. Also, the creation of tangents in the space/time continuum will quickly diminish any returns of foreknowledge of future events. Now this is not to say that the tech that is sending the messages back is imperfect by any means but at some point there has to be a tangent to some degree because that is simply how time works.

Fifth, paradoxes. It is obvious that messages are being sent back and that there is a heavy influence on the situation, but at what point do the messages become a self-fulfilling prophecy or a paradox from which one side cannot survive.

Sixth, as has been pointed out, everyone hates the Golgans and although people dislike the Altess, I will say that there will be information passed to the Altess that a massive invasion is coming. The last thing anyone wants is to loose their payday and that's what the Altess are doing, handing out paydays.

Seventh, Altess espionage networks take up around 3% or 3 million Altess. This in conjunction with the Altess nearly bankrolling the galaxy, people will talk. Who knows, the Altess may already know about it via their spy networks and are just keeping it hush hush. This could cause the Golgans to show up to hundreds of small fleets ready to fight for the Altess.

Eight, heredity genocide. This in itself has scared a lot of people into cooperating with the Armoria when they otherwise wouldn't. Thus more information given to the Altess. This could also be a very good reason for people to look the other way during the attack.

Nine, Captain-General Horace Shaw sitting just outside of Altess space (if I remember correctly). Granted he has a very small fleet but he is still the closest person that the Altess could probably call for help and get an immediate response from the CCW.

Ten, Probably the largest monkey wrench for the Golgans is that the Anvil galaxy is being thrown into chaos with the whole Dimensional Outbreak issue going on. The Altess/Armoria know about this and chances are that they would start patrolling heavier by calling up forces from storage.

Eleven, Temporal messaging is awesome and can help you get the drop on any enemy. If the Golgans can bring to bear a large enough fleet for the alpha strike, they will defeat the Altess. The problem is if they don't and leave any Altess alive they will be facing heredity genocide, the preferred tactic of the Armoria.

Twelve, Dimensional Outbreak again. I have yet to read anywhere how the Golgans are reacting to this situation or if they even know about it. I will assume that they do know about it even if said information didn't come from the future. Maybe they have some information about it that no one else does via the future and they know it won't affect them for a while, but will that be long enough to conquer the Altess?

Thirteen, Numbers numbers numbers. The Golgans have got the Altess out matched by a factor of probably a thousand fold. This assumes that the entire Golgan species jumps in to fight the Altess and the Altess are only able to have to Armoria fight and the all of the automated defenses are somehow gotten around. Keep in mind only 85% of the Altess are of the Altess Noble OCC and we have only talked about 89% total so that leaves 11 million Altess out and about and who knows what kind of skills that they have.

Fourteen, Will the Golgans strike at the Altess home world first or try and destroy their outlying worlds, or some kind of combination attack. Unless it is a coordinated strike on the home world, the attack will fail.

So is what all of this comes down to is when the Golgan attack happens, the current state of the Dimensional Outbreak issues, and how fast the Altess are able to react to the alpha strike will determine the outcome of the war. Either way there are too many variables that need to be decided on before either side can be called a winner. Regardless both sides will suffer great losses before it's over.