Nazi's in rifts?

[Crucible]

you know that actually makes since. i could see the nazi ideolagy taking a back burner to survival. especially if its your own and the only person saving you is black or other non-white. that goes along with the thing i said about the middle east. when the rifts come and demons are trying to kill you relegion isnt matter. arabics and isrealies would come togather to fight them off.

I don't think thats entirely true. I could easily see one group blaming the other for bringing them en and refusing to join up.

Palestinians are Israelites...

[Crucible]

I dunno...the idea of Hitler Reborn being crushed into a grease stain by an Israeli Star of David-insignia'ed Iron Juggernaught or Super-Golem has a certain appeal, no?

no it just sounds fooliosh.. the only thing worse that brining back king aurther is brinign back hitler.

x2

I would not consider Nazis in my game. First of all they would be an Occult/Mystical organization. They would worship Odin, or seek to harness his power and the Hammer of Thor (Mjolnir). The technology would be mostly TW. they may still have ethnic issues and wish to control the world. They may not have issues with the fairer D-Bees, but then too they may wish to do experiments and come up with ways in which to procreate with Elves and possibly side with Atlanteans believing them to be the link to the Aryan race. They would be intrigued by Magic Tattoos, Techno-Wizardry, Dimensional Manipulation, and the Juicer Conversion and would look for a way to make the Conversion work with an inner Bio-Comp.

[Lenwen]

I would not consider Nazis in my game.

No need to .. KS himself has stated repeatedly .. the CS has been fashioned after them by thier Leader.
Who idolizes them ..

[Crucible]

I would not consider Nazis in my game.

No need to .. KS himself has stated repeatedly .. the CS has been fashioned after them by thier Leader.
Who idolizes them ..

You can look at the uniform and tell who and what they are. I would say that they are not as awful because its one thing to hate Elves, Gromeks, and LLWs and another to hate Jews, Blacks, and Native Americans.

[Lenwen]

You can look at the uniform and tell who and what they are. I would say that they are not as awful because its one thing to hate Elves, Gromeks, and LLWs and another to hate Jews, Blacks, and Native Americans.

Not in the World of Rifts ...

Genocide is Genocide ..

Wether its spelled .. Jew .. or wether it is spelled DeeBee ..

Wouldent you agree ?

[Crucible]

You can look at the uniform and tell who and what they are. I would say that they are not as awful because its one thing to hate Elves, Gromeks, and LLWs and another to hate Jews, Blacks, and Native Americans.

Not in the World of Rifts ...

Genocide is Genocide ..

Wether its spelled .. Jew .. or wether it is spelled DeeBee ..

Wouldent you agree ?

no...I'm a human first guy myself. I would instantly dislike aliens and feel the need to immediately defend my family. I could easily side with humans of any race, but not non-humans at all.

[Lenwen]

You can look at the uniform and tell who and what they are. I would say that they are not as awful because its one thing to hate Elves, Gromeks, and LLWs and another to hate Jews, Blacks, and Native Americans.

Not in the World of Rifts ...

Genocide is Genocide ..

Wether its spelled .. Jew .. or wether it is spelled DeeBee ..

Wouldent you agree ?

no...

Thats kewl ..

Please give me the definition of the word "Genocide" ?

[Crucible]

You can look at the uniform and tell who and what they are. I would say that they are not as awful because its one thing to hate Elves, Gromeks, and LLWs and another to hate Jews, Blacks, and Native Americans.

Not in the World of Rifts ...

Genocide is Genocide ..

Wether its spelled .. Jew .. or wether it is spelled DeeBee ..

Wouldent you agree ?

no...

Thats kewl ..

Please give me the definition of the word "Genocide" ?

While the definition covers all races and I would heavily diagree with Prosek and his regime for MANY reasons. I would would not be very endearing to non-humans. This is not a literature piece, I have full knowledge of the word genocide (Black remember?), I would would just be hard pressed to be accepting of non-human races right off the rip. Killing them would be murder unless I were advised by God to do so, or I was in danger.

[Lenwen]

You can look at the uniform and tell who and what they are. I would say that they are not as awful because its one thing to hate Elves, Gromeks, and LLWs and another to hate Jews, Blacks, and Native Americans.

Not in the World of Rifts ...

Genocide is Genocide ..

Wether its spelled .. Jew .. or wether it is spelled DeeBee ..

Wouldent you agree ?

no...

Thats kewl ..

Please give me the definition of the word "Genocide" ?

While the definition covers all races and I would heavily diagree with Prosek and his regime for MANY reasons. I would would not be very endearing to non-humans. This is not a literature piece, I have full knowledge of the word genocide (Black remember?), I would would just be hard pressed to be accepting of non-human races right off the rip. Killing them would be murder unless I were advised by God to do so, or I was in danger.

So then it is as I said ..

Genocide is Genocide wether its spelled .. Deebee's .. or Jew's .. or Native American's .. or African American ..

It is .. what it is ..

[Crucible]

Was that really your point? There is no gray area in that way, but also the Bible says that Heaven was made for man and no one else. To me that means that only men are of God so I would easily not see a D-Bee as my genetic equal.

[Lenwen]

Was that really your point? There is no gray area in that way, but also the Bible says that Heaven was made for man and no one else. To me that means that only men are of God so I would easily not see a D-Bee as my genetic equal.

Do you see a Bear as you're Genetic equal ?

I'm willing to bet the bear does not care and would be able to kill you if both were out in the wilderness with only what they have on themselves naturally. (no "created" weapons)

You say heaven was made for man an no one else .. please explain the rational of there being "Angels" in heaven then ?

The way you stated it above in your post makes it impossible for anything other then God an man in Heaven. Yet the bible CLEARLY .. makes it known of at LEAST .. a couple Different types of Angels ..

You're statement means .. they are not in heaven. And they never were or ever shall be ...

Does it not also say in the Bible .. according to Jesus ..

"In my fathers house are many rooms" Which simply implies there are more then just Humans in heaven.

Or .. how bout the fact that it is also said ..

"And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it"

Here again .. it is an INCREDIBLE .. clue .. as to the fact that there are in fact more things in heaven then you allow yourself to believe ?

Do you not agree ?

EDIT: how bout this passage as well ?
""For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. " ?

[Crucible]

Was that really your point? There is no gray area in that way, but also the Bible says that Heaven was made for man and no one else. To me that means that only men are of God so I would easily not see a D-Bee as my genetic equal.

Do you see a Bear as you're Genetic equal ?

I'm willing to bet the bear does not care and would be able to kill you if both were out in the wilderness with only what they have on themselves naturally. (no "created" weapons)

You say heaven was made for man an no one else .. please explain the rational of there being "Angels" in heaven then ?

The way you stated it above in your post makes it impossible for anything other then God an man in Heaven. Yet the bible CLEARLY .. makes it known of at LEAST .. a couple Different types of Angels ..

You're statement means .. they are not in heaven. And they never were or ever shall be ...

Does it not also say in the Bible .. according to Jesus ..

"In my fathers house are many rooms" Which simply implies there are more then just Humans in heaven.

Or .. how bout the fact that it is also said ..

"And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it"

Here again .. it is an INCREDIBLE .. clue .. as to the fact that there are in fact more things in heaven then you allow yourself to believe ?

Do you not agree ?

EDIT: how bout this passage as well ?
""For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. " ?

I have to totally disagree with you and unfortunately I will say this just this one time and for the record.

The Bible is not ALL INCLUSIVE in its writing. It speaks directly to the children of Adam. This was the reason for the flood and so many other happenings. Angels are messengers of God and one step below us even. The idea of angels is very complicated and not meant to be used as a conversation piece.I discuss things in Rifts, but I do tread a bit more careful then maybe you do. The word is maybe. I do not profess to know you. Maybe there are different rooms, but I am not into Biblical speculation. The Bible is straight up and its what I go by. I speak several languages and know that what many think are contradictions are differences in language translation. For a thread it would be difficult for me to show you much in relation to what I am speaking on.

My soul belongs to God. You are a part of the same link to which I am born of as are all humans born of Adam. I will not accept Plato of Lazlo or anyone else like that as being born of my God, but rather a creation of one of the Fallen if not Lucifer himself. While I would pity them, I would not befriend them...

IG I put all of that aside and play the game as is.

[Saitou Hajime]

was Rommel a member of the SS

that would be actually kinda of cool if played right

playing a panzer brigade trying to make it back to Germany after they realize North Africa isn't exactly conquerable. Question would be how they make it past the Phoniex Empire.

Tank ROunds still do MD though

then how would the NGR view them

heros from the past

or the worst of villians of history

Rommel was not in the SS, he was Wehrmact(sp) regular army.

Rommel was a great tank commander in WWII, but there's problems with him coming back: mainly he'd be useless as a great tank commander because weaponry and warfare has changed greatly in the time since he walked the planet. Also, WWII shells don't do MD, only modern ones do and they barely do 1d4 MD.

Plus, Rommel only spoke German. The NGR speaks Euro, not German, so Rommel would only be able to pick up something like every 3rd word or so.

It's kinda like asking what would happen if Robert E. Lee was rifted in. Just because he was a great general then doesn't mean he'd be good now.

Rommel was a great military Commander and while the Tech has changed, tatics likely will not, infact Rommel likely would be able to attapted Quickly after working through it a bit. At the end of the Day a Tank is still a tank, Soldiers are still Soldiers. Rommel would likely have trohule with Humaniod Robots and Power armour especially air units.

I could have sworn that the NGR still was using German internally but Often they are Bilingual in Euro.

What would happen if a random rift sent a Nazi from ww2 to rift world?

The CS would welcome him as a brother in arms.

Why do people keep saying that he'd join the CS or the CS would welcome him? Oh wait, that's right, the CS is written as a Nazi stereotype and therefore they'd be instant soul mates.

The CS would kill him if he got near them. He's a D-Bee, remember? If you weren't born on this planet to human parents, the CS doesn't care what you believe...you're nothing to them. So no, they wouldn't welcome him and he wouldn't seek them out.

This is matter of degrees, human is still Human and as long as you don't walk into a CS camp from a RIFT you can still BS your way in. THe CS and to a lesser Degree NGR would feel some what Familiar to Nazis. They likely move towards such places because of that feeling. How Accepted they be is another thing all toghter but Given that they are human, they liekely will do well.

[Lenwen]

Was that really your point? There is no gray area in that way, but also the Bible says that Heaven was made for man and no one else. To me that means that only men are of God so I would easily not see a D-Bee as my genetic equal.

Do you see a Bear as you're Genetic equal ?

I'm willing to bet the bear does not care and would be able to kill you if both were out in the wilderness with only what they have on themselves naturally. (no "created" weapons)

You say heaven was made for man an no one else .. please explain the rational of there being "Angels" in heaven then ?

The way you stated it above in your post makes it impossible for anything other then God an man in Heaven. Yet the bible CLEARLY .. makes it known of at LEAST .. a couple Different types of Angels ..

You're statement means .. they are not in heaven. And they never were or ever shall be ...

Does it not also say in the Bible .. according to Jesus ..

"In my fathers house are many rooms" Which simply implies there are more then just Humans in heaven.

Or .. how bout the fact that it is also said ..

"And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it"

Here again .. it is an INCREDIBLE .. clue .. as to the fact that there are in fact more things in heaven then you allow yourself to believe ?

Do you not agree ?

EDIT: how bout this passage as well ?
""For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. " ?

I have to totally disagree with you and unfortunately I will say this just this one time and for the record.

The Bible is not ALL INCLUSIVE in its writing. It speaks directly to the children of Adam. This was the reason for the flood and so many other happenings. Angels are messengers of God and one step below us even. The idea of angels is very complicated and not meant to be used as a conversation piece.I discuss things in Rifts, but I do tread a bit more careful then maybe you do. The word is maybe. I do not profess to know you. Maybe there are different rooms, but I am not into Biblical speculation. The Bible is straight up and its what I go by. I speak several languages and know that what many think are contradictions are differences in language translation. For a thread it would be difficult for me to show you much in relation to what I am speaking on.

My soul belongs to God. You are a part of the same link to which I am born of as are all humans born of Adam. I will not accept Plato of Lazlo or anyone else like that as being born of my God, but rather a creation of one of the Fallen if not Lucifer himself. While I would pity them, I would not befriend them...

IG I put all of that aside and play the game as is.

Interesting stuff .. instead of answering me my friend I now am forced to admit .. I have many many many more questions I wish to ask you .. but will hold my tounge as you stated this would be the last time you spoke about it ..

I like your answer and it was truthfull.

I especially like the last part that which I enboldened for you

[taalismn]

Was that really your point? There is no gray area in that way, but also the Bible says that Heaven was made for man and no one else. To me that means that only men are of God so I would easily not see a D-Bee as my genetic equal.

"man"...women might have a bone to pick with that literal interpretation.....

[Crucible]

Was that really your point? There is no gray area in that way, but also the Bible says that Heaven was made for man and no one else. To me that means that only men are of God so I would easily not see a D-Bee as my genetic equal.

"man"...women might have a bone to pick with that literal interpretation.....

LOL!!!


Lenwen, PM me and I'll do my best. Warning, I'm a servant of God and not him.

[Elthbert]

you know that actually makes since. i could see the nazi ideolagy taking a back burner to survival. especially if its your own and the only person saving you is black or other non-white. that goes along with the thing i said about the middle east. when the rifts come and demons are trying to kill you relegion isnt matter. arabics and isrealies would come togather to fight them off.

I don't think thats entirely true. I could easily see one group blaming the other for bringing them en and refusing to join up.

ya and then both there daughters get raped by a horny demon; realizing that these things hate both of them they then allie and try to fight them off.

I hope that that would be the case.... I really do, but letsface it, people can be really catsastrophicly stupid. Many times in history people have joined together to fight a common enem, but there have been may tiems they didn't too, or even turned on each other or sold each other out.

[Lenwen]

On Rommel:

He is actually one of the most OVERVALUED Generals in German History. Remember that he was send to what was essentially a third rate theater (Afrika) and even that only because he was a "Hitler-Groupie" (not a Nazi but willing to use them and be used by them) and Hitler ordered him put there (Rommel never went through General Staff training and got his General from Hitler, not the Army)

He worked best when assisted by a capabel staff that did all the important things (Logistics) so he could do strategie. As the old saying goes: "Amateurs study strategy, Professionals study Logistics". As soon as he faces enemies that understood "Blitzkrieg" and the defence against it (Depth, attacks on the logistics trail) it was over for him in Afrika.


On tanks:

Actually tanks today fight by the same books that they fought by in 1939-45. "Panzer Vor" from Guderian, the works of Liddell-Hart and (don't laugh) deGaulle. The ranges got a bit longer and shooting on the move more accurate. But all systems (stabilised guns/optics, 1500+m ranges, radio etc) as well as the MainBattletank (Panther) where already present in WWII. The old soldiers need to read up on the tech a bit but give them a few hours (for a tank commander(1)) or days and they run with it. Remember a general does NOT tell a tank gunner where/when/what to shoot, he tells a tank BATALLION to be at a place where they can shoot the enemy. So he must know WHAT a modern tank can do but he does not have to be a qualifier TC himself.


On SS:

Most SS members (including Waffen-SS) couldn't fight their way out of Miss Kitties Henhouse. "Training" was heavy on politics/fanatism and light on useful stuff. They where mostly doing "Learning by survival" and a newly raised SS-unit was considered worthless by the German army.


(1) Seen that myself in the early 1980s when WWII Panther crews where given a chance to take a ride in a Leopard IA4.

Just exactly how large was the Nazi military by the time WWII came to its start ?

[Captain Shiva]

On Rommel:

He is actually one of the most OVERVALUED Generals in German History. Remember that he was send to what was essentially a third rate theater (Afrika) and even that only because he was a "Hitler-Groupie" (not a Nazi but willing to use them and be used by them) and Hitler ordered him put there (Rommel never went through General Staff training and got his General from Hitler, not the Army)

He worked best when assisted by a capabel staff that did all the important things (Logistics) so he could do strategie. As the old saying goes: "Amateurs study strategy, Professionals study Logistics". As soon as he faces enemies that understood "Blitzkrieg" and the defence against it (Depth, attacks on the logistics trail) it was over for him in Afrika.

You might want to doublecheck some of your facts.

[taalismn]

The Nazis' worst enemies weren't the Allies...it was themselves....From the very start, Hitler had to constantly be on guard against his own people getting ideas, so he was culling them left and right(most obviously with the Brownshirts in the Night of the Long Knives)...That attitude spilled over into his micromanagement of everything else, including the organization of the Panzer divisions...to the point where Guderian, who'd organized the 'Blitzkreig' strategies and organization, hardly recognized the Panzer corps....They degenerated into a fire brigade that was sent to shore up weaker formations and backbone weak spots...
THis, even with an overwhelmingly obvious external threat(the Allies, and more importantly, the Soviets, who were every inch as bad as the Germans, and the Nazis knew it....)

[Lenwen]

The Nazis' worst enemies weren't the Allies...it was themselves....From the very start, Hitler had to constantly be on guard against his own people getting ideas, so he was culling them left and right(most obviously with the Brownshirts in the Night of the Long Knives)...

I thought "Night of the Long Knives" was where Hitler threw use of the Gastopo litterally killed hundreds of "Political" dissidents.

Not Nazi's themsevles theywere in fact anti Nazis (tho they were in fact German) This is what set the stage for German reeducation from the way that it was .. to Nazification Germany.

The Night of the long knives was not the culling of Nazi's but from what I understand .. was the culling of German anti Nazi political leaders .. in order for the Nazification of Germany to start.

Am I wrong ?

[Captain Shiva]

On Rommel:

He is actually one of the most OVERVALUED Generals in German History. Remember that he was send to what was essentially a third rate theater (Afrika) and even that only because he was a "Hitler-Groupie" (not a Nazi but willing to use them and be used by them) and Hitler ordered him put there (Rommel never went through General Staff training and got his General from Hitler, not the Army)

He worked best when assisted by a capabel staff that did all the important things (Logistics) so he could do strategie. As the old saying goes: "Amateurs study strategy, Professionals study Logistics". As soon as he faces enemies that understood "Blitzkrieg" and the defence against it (Depth, attacks on the logistics trail) it was over for him in Afrika.

You might want to doublecheck some of your facts.

Which one?

+ Lack of General staff training?
+ Being put on the spot in Afrika by Hitler?
+ Dislike of him by the higher staff?
+ His willingness to use and be used?

Please be concrete and I'll provide citations (not always online) Rommel isn't as squeaky clean as the post WWII german army made him initially.

I would hardly characterize someone who refused to execute Jewish soldiers and civilians,and who later was part of a plot to assassinate Hitler, as a "Hitler-groupie."

[taalismn]

The Nazis' worst enemies weren't the Allies...it was themselves....From the very start, Hitler had to constantly be on guard against his own people getting ideas, so he was culling them left and right(most obviously with the Brownshirts in the Night of the Long Knives)...

I thought "Night of the Long Knives" was where Hitler threw use of the Gastopo litterally killed hundreds of "Political" dissidents.

Not Nazi's themsevles theywere in fact anti Nazis (tho they were in fact German) This is what set the stage for German reeducation from the way that it was .. to Nazification Germany.

The Night of the long knives was not the culling of Nazi's but from what I understand .. was the culling of German anti Nazi political leaders .. in order for the Nazification of Germany to start.

Am I wrong ?

That too...it was primarily a means to get rid of the Sturmabteilung, the Brownshirts, who were the street thugs that the Nazi Party relied on early on to intimidate their opponents and trash scapegoats(so they were sort of proto-Nazis)...but once Hitler started getting some respect and credit with the upper echelons of power, he had to disband his street gang enforcers or the more law-and-order groups like the Army would balk and might oppose him...It was convenient, then, that Roehm, the leader of the Sturmabteilung, had a recent attitude that since he and his group were the muscle of the party, they should be in charge, and the greater Nazi party assimilated into the Sturmabteilung...Well, Hitler couldn't have uppity thugs thinking they ran his party, so he had them purged...and since it was convenient(they were arresting and killing people anyway) they'd bag a few more of their opponents in the process...who'd miss them in all the commotion?
Afterwards, Hitler began recruiting up a whole new mess of thugs...he had to...but now they had some air of legitimacy as the SS, and were more loyal to him...At least until the end of the war, when it became clear that Himmler thought he was Hitler's heir, and built up the SS into his own private fiefdom...
So even if you had big-organization main core Nazis pushed up into Rifts Earth, they'd be so busy backstabbing each other they'd not be the effective force you might think....

[Mack]

Lock Warning.

Please limit this to a Rift's related discussion.

[abe]

Lock Warning.

Please limit this to a Rift's related discussion.

I thought we were.