Utimate Raiding truck

[J. Lionheart]

It would likely be very effective in an urban environment under certain conditions. Where I see difficulties are as follows:

1) Very poor gas mileage. You'll be using a whole lot of precious fuel just driving from wherever you're hiding, to wherever you're raiding and back, plus just idling while you do your house hunting will go through a lot of fuel with one of those big engines.

2) Limited terrain capability. While it will work wonderfully on pavement or hard-pack side roads, the moment you have to "rough it" in a place with soft ground, you're perma-screwed. The primary means to get one of these babies from point A in the stix to point B in the city would be a freeway or major arterial, but these are likely to have graveyards of cars. One or two cars, you can push aside easily with that big blade you mentioned. A pile of cars though, and you're going nowhere.

3) Dinner bell engine. That super powerful engine that lets you shove cars, run over zombies, and drive what is basically a tank, is not quiet. Zombies will flock to the sound, and the shotgun blasts of the sentries will only increase that phenomenon. You're liable to have a couple hundred zombies on you by the time you finish your first building. You might be safe from them in the truck, but it will certainly make doing anything but immediately fleeing the area suicide. No second building, no scouting, just run them over and run away!

For me, a vehicle like that wouldn't make sense as a supply raider, but would make sense as a support vehicle for zombie hunts. Put a gun platform and observation post in back, and use the truck to set up a command post / fire base while the motorcycle crews and foot units round up some business. Then drive away slowly down the road, zombies in tow, blasting the crap out of them from safely inside.

[Shorty]

We have this for our vehicle. We found it in an unarmed condition, in a civilian collectors location and have modified a 20mm cannon to go where the normal turret would go in a production version. Too bad we left it behind for our most current run and are now stuck in Seattle armed only with knives and the one vehicle we brought instead is trashed......

[Tags]

hmmm, all we have is a hummer... Needs a mini gun.

[Thinyser]

While the truck idea has its merrits the drawbacks that were mentioned are too overwhelming to overlook.

I prefer stealth (don't attract attention) and mobility (weaving around other parked vehicles and going through other narrow openings a car or large dump truck could never make it) to armor and pulling power.

Bicycles (electricly augmented if possible) for short excursions of 5-10 miles round trip and where support can be called in if need be (assuming you have people back home with a truck like this to come bail your arse out if you attract any attention).

Electric motorcycles for longer excursions up to 30 miles round trip... assuming you have access to electricity to charge the batteries. You can also use these to carry winches that can easily be chained to a tree or other strong structure and used to pull off doors or move vehichles.

Regular motorcycles for longer/overnight excursions... assuming you're crazy enough to go far away from your support and/or stay away overnight.

Add some of those mini motorcycle trailers and you can even use your motorcycles to bug out to another venue if there are more appealing accomodations somewhere else.

[rat_bastard]

This is my ultimate raiding truck.

[wildhood]

I go with a LAV-25 "Piranha". Just goggle LAV-25.

[azazel1024]

Ultimate raiding 'truck'. Take a Subaru Forester, strip it to the bone, add in some reinforcing gussets and tubing through out the structure to take some extra weight, throw on stronger springs with a bit more height to them. Then weld on 3/8" steel plate all around the outside and 1/4" steel shutters that can be operated from inside around all the windows. Armor the radiator with steel mesh and 1/4" steel pipe in front of it. Run flat tires and a 3/8" skid plate covering the bottom of the car. Move the fuel door to the inside of the vehicle. Change the differentials to LSDs and lockers from open/viscous differentials. Turbocharge the engine. Install reinforced push bars front and rear.

Your now set for raiding.

If you could still stop the thing, but frankly with the traction, low center of gravity, weight and power you could literally drive through/over any conceivable pile of zombies (even hundreds or thousands of them). You'd also have the weight, power and traction to be able to push cars and trucks out of your way, though you couldn't exactly drive through a car grave yard.

You'd also have something that could probably manage decent enough milage (well, maybe 10-12mpg). You'd also have the room for a few people and still fit salvage inside.
-Matt

[Tiree]

This is my ultimate raiding truck.

I don't know Rat, the EM-50 I think has it beat

[azazel1024]

This is my ultimate raiding truck.

I don't know Rat, the EM-50 I think has it beat

Only if you have John Candy around.
-Matt

[Teltum]

I know that not everyone here would love it but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PEU_201IfI Warhammer 40 DOW2 Rhino... I think it exists over in England. So I think a Rhino makes up for any lack of firepower. I know it is a GW thing but still.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

dont know about raiding but this my raiding vechile it's a nice base, then again i rather use a gaint earthmover

[Mech-Viper Prime]

raiding as in going out of your hideout and raiding houses, stores and gas stations to get supplies

i wouldnt even touch that thing for a base. too big and noticeable

moblie base, work a couple of other gaint earthmovers , you could gather a number of zeds up in the area or prep area for them and bury them
think about freeing a small town with a nice size trench around it.

sadly no one thinks of long term goals just the short term ones

[glitterboy2098]

Using Alternative Fuels
Souped up sedan
Dent and Ding protection
Alternative energy
build your own luxury car
Customizing

[Mech-Viper Prime]

raiding as in going out of your hideout and raiding houses, stores and gas stations to get supplies

i wouldnt even touch that thing for a base. too big and noticeable

moblie base, work a couple of other gaint earthmovers , you could gather a number of zeds up in the area or prep area for them and bury them
think about freeing a small town with a nice size trench around it.

sadly no one thinks of long term goals just the short term ones

but even yourself is thinking of short term goals since your only considering the zombies being your main worries, you also got to think about the evil raiders, the Death Cultist, the Retro savages and other evil living things out there, plus think about how big of a target you present yourself as in that thing to a Sniper whos had a bad day

which is why i wont touch something like that its just a giant Target for anyone who is having a bad day or even a bad life now for a trench i would just use a back hoe

i know its a big target, and who says you couldnt have snipers of your own, as for the threats most of them would stay clear of a big machine with weapons on it and look for a easier target.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

raiding as in going out of your hideout and raiding houses, stores and gas stations to get supplies

i wouldnt even touch that thing for a base. too big and noticeable

moblie base, work a couple of other gaint earthmovers , you could gather a number of zeds up in the area or prep area for them and bury them
think about freeing a small town with a nice size trench around it.

sadly no one thinks of long term goals just the short term ones

but even yourself is thinking of short term goals since your only considering the zombies being your main worries, you also got to think about the evil raiders, the Death Cultist, the Retro savages and other evil living things out there, plus think about how big of a target you present yourself as in that thing to a Sniper whos had a bad day

which is why i wont touch something like that its just a giant Target for anyone who is having a bad day or even a bad life now for a trench i would just use a back hoe

i know its a big target, and who says you couldnt have snipers of your own, as for the threats most of them would stay clear of a big machine with weapons on it and look for a easier target.

Page 12 paragraph 2 sentence 1 of the Zombie hunting manual:P

and just a question whats the gas usage on that thing anyway?

what does this have to do with them breathing?
don't have a clue, just like the idea of bmf machine ripping into the earth and killing zombies with a gaint buzzsaw

[azazel1024]

Its nice and fun, but unless you luck out and manage to organize a large group of surviors and can pool your resources/lead them then it is rather unrealistic to use long term as transportation/zed killing. The thing must gooble fuel, is not stealthy and goes slow. A better raiding truck is something that can be well armored, is fairly quite and isn't to big. This is of course unless you can organize a large group (safe haven community, Reaper group, etc). In that case you might be able to get the resources (human and material) to support such a vehicle, in which case it would be bad ass.
-Matt

[Sir Blayse]

Personally I like that OKA multi-cab from the start of this thread, it would need some mods to give it armor and needs to have a turret cut into the top of it. The reason for the multi-cab, sometimes it would be helpful to have the flat rear for carry different things. Another possibility would off-road trucks like those in Australia, the ones they call truck trains. I would not take them into the city, but they would make for an incredible mobile base, you could stay on the move so keep from being beseiged by the undead. I would say set up a flat bed trailer at the rear with a ramp on back to carry your OKA's or Hummers, those vehicles would be used to do the raiding and then could just drive back to the staging point. The trucks have 500 gallon tanks and are designed for cross-country travel. With lets say three or four trailers you could have a living quarters/barracks, a storage/armory, a trailer to carry your other vehicles ( this helps save your fuel in them- since the raid vehicles are gas guzzlers), if you have an extra trailer then that could be for medical, communication, or other use. I would also say carrying a couple of bikes and dirt bikes would be a good idea. These could be used to scout out the area ahead and could also be used to help defend the land train. The truck would also need to be modified, but these things are made to take the rough roads or even lack of roads. Just be prepared with a few chainsaws and winches to deal with any serious obstacles. Heck if you have the ability to acquire a lite plane or helicopter, then you could carry that on one of the trailers as well. Talk about great recon and evac if needed. Of course don't try and take the big truck into major cities, you could easily get stuck trying to manuever this beast. I would also put turrets and firing slots into the sides of this vehicle, these can be high enough to be out of zombie reach, but allow you a good aiming point. One draw back to this approach is the large number of survivors you will need to operate, most groups will not be this large, but you might be able to grow a larger group and can certain sustain more when you never have to abandon a base due to an overrun. Just remember to not stay outside a major city for too long either.

(edit- I forgot to mention each truck must carry at least a 12-16 foot ladder with them, and you should have a few 28-32 foot ones on some of the trailers. I helps when you can easily get to a rooftop and even better if you need a bridge to get from rooftop to rooftop.)

[CyCo]

You mean Road Trains. Yeah, good idea. Again, don't take them into cities. There is even laws restricting how far they're allowed to get to the big smoke. For those that are not familiar with the concept, yeah, 3 to 4 trailers are not uncommon on these things. And that's those closer to town. Further Outback you'll find the truly huge muthers, like 113 trailers long. That was back in 2006, and I'm fairly sure it's been beaten since then.


8]

[azazel1024]

The problem with a road train is that offroad ability is non-existant basically and you're still going to have the issue of trying to push through car grave yards. You can't take those suckers on back roads in a lot of places and those are some of the only roads you can travel on without work to clear passages in places (pretty much all major highways/interstates/beltways are likely to have car grave yards every few dozen miles at least).

Road trains are a great way to haul a lot, but they can't handle any real road grades without breaking the cargo. I've worked studying a project in Yemen were a guy wanted a giant pond for beauty, irrigation and fishing for his village on top of a plateau. The water was hauled in by road train weekly. It was I think 12 tankers (might have been 10) to the one truck and they'd have to break the load to 2 tankers pulled up the plateau top in 5 or 6 runs. The grade was fairly gentle, like 3 degrees or something like that.

Also milage is still an issue, 500 gallons is tons of storage, but if you are only getting 1-2mpg that still isn't much range and when you do need to fill up you need a lot. Gas station tanks, if full are plenty, averaging between 20-40,000 gallons and truck stops would be a god send, but pumping 500 gallons is going to take a long time, supposing the tanks aren't empty/contaminated. Manual pumping is probably going to take 3-4hrs to pump 500 gallons by hand, supposing you have a real pump (like a drum pump). You'd need a gas/electric powered pump and even then its likely to take 20-30 minutes to do.
-Matt

[Mech-Viper Prime]

i suggest a big v-wedge plow truck, it might work, it might not

[Sir Blayse]

The problem with a road train is that offroad ability is non-existant basically and you're still going to have the issue of trying to push through car grave yards. You can't take those suckers on back roads in a lot of places and those are some of the only roads you can travel on without work to clear passages in places (pretty much all major highways/interstates/beltways are likely to have car grave yards every few dozen miles at least).

I was talking about using this thing in the American SW. The road train designs from Australia are designed to cross country in areas that do not have dependable or sometimes not even paved roadways. Out in the American southwest you should not have really large car graveyards and not a lot of large trees. Also, the goal is not be constantly moving, just getting up and moving the base when the zeds start to come that way. If you can set up shop a few miles outside a decent supply point then go for it. You should be able to have a rather consistent series of runs before you have to move on. It just helps to run one engine instead say four or five on longer trips. I do like the idea of a plow or cow catcher for the front, but probably would not have to have one. It this part of the country you could probably push through or go around most obstacles. The chainsaws and winches should take care of most others. I would say that having two dirt bikes run a screen in front of the truck would be helpful as well, they are good to look out for big blockages and car graveyards, or even search out ambush/choke points used by retros and bandits.

I just think something like this would make raiding more efficient, plus you would probably do good to stockpile as much fuel as you can. A lot of truck stops are out in the middle of nowhere and what zeds you find should be able to be dealt with. I'm actually thinking that a whole fuel tanker trailer would be a good addition as well. I'm not sure about the fuel mileage, but being a diesel it should be better than 1 or 2 miles per gallon.

Interesting clipart:
http://www.arthursclipart.org/australas ... 0train.gif

[azazel1024]

Doing a bit of research and most semi-rigs get around 7-8mpg with around 30-40k lb gross weights. This is for on road driving and a single trailer. Of course your milage will be better on the road and with only a 2-3 trailers, but the road trains have much bigger engines and if off-roading...much less efficient. So 1mpg is possibly an exageration, but it might not really be that far off.

As a comparison an M60 tank with a diesel engine has a fuel economy of around 1mpg weighing in around 120,000lbs. Of course I admit that is a tracked vehicle, which is much less efficient then a wheeled vehicle, but I must say, still. Off road performance dragging say 3-4 trailers with the massive turbodiesel that road trains have in them I would be suprised if you managed better then 2mpg. On the road making sure you go slowish you probably could manage as much as 3 or even 4mpg pulling 3-4 trailers (on level ground with a tail wind).
-Matt

[azazel1024]

Zombie Succubus/Incubus?

*edit* I meant this to go in the "what horrible things can you think of" thread.
-Matt

[Shorty]

Growing up in rural Nevada where it is legal to have triple trailers with up to 140,000 pounds being towed (I could be off on the actual weight restriction it has been a decade) and having a truck driver friend who is licensed for triples they generally get 3-5 mpg. And they are just plain scary if you are driving them in any sort of adverse weather.

[Sir Blayse]

Doing a bit of research and most semi-rigs get around 7-8mpg with around 30-40k lb gross weights. This is for on road driving and a single trailer. Of course your milage will be better on the road and with only a 2-3 trailers, but the road trains have much bigger engines and if off-roading...much less efficient. So 1mpg is possibly an exageration, but it might not really be that far off.

As a comparison an M60 tank with a diesel engine has a fuel economy of around 1mpg weighing in around 120,000lbs. Of course I admit that is a tracked vehicle, which is much less efficient then a wheeled vehicle, but I must say, still. Off road performance dragging say 3-4 trailers with the massive turbodiesel that road trains have in them I would be suprised if you managed better then 2mpg. On the road making sure you go slowish you probably could manage as much as 3 or even 4mpg pulling 3-4 trailers (on level ground with a tail wind).
-Matt

Yeah, maybe three-four trailers would be the max, and one needs to able to carry a lot of fuel besides what is in the tanks. Still I think it is a good idea for a base that you could always move when trouble comes knocking, even if you just circle the town and park on the other side. Once the resources of an area start to dry up, then you move on.

Of course it seems this has drifted off the topic. This truck would be part of a raid, just not doing the raiding. I still think a few OKA multi-cabs would be great, but probably almost impossible to find here in the states. There are similar trucks though, so I'm using the same concept for what would be used. It just seems we will spend a lot of time hunting for fuel for all of these beasts. But, I guess you have to have a 9-5... One other drawback with being mobile is the lack of farming. It would probably be a good idea to try and setup a farm somewhere within the circuit with a skeleton crew to run it. Someplace in the middle of nowhere should be pretty defensible if needed. The big truck could stop in every now or use a smaller vehicle with better fuel economy to go pick up fresh food.

[azazel1024]

Green houses setup on the top of Buttes in the southwest. Extremely hard to access, and from what it sounds like zombies make terrible climbers.

I do like the road train idea for a semi-mobile base. You move it every once in awhile and then scavenge the area until you attract to much zombie attention. They'd probably be good in a lot of northern mexico as well.

For a raiding truck, well I stick by my modified Forester for a light raiding/scavenging vehicle. For a heavy smash and grab, I say an M113 with a trailer (preferably box trailer). Sure, my issue with terrible milage, but that sucker will push/climb over most obsticles short of a building (and some buildings too) or boulders. Zombies aren't going to stop it and there is enough interior room to fit a respectable amount of salvage along with a driver and 3-4 salvage guys. As a bonus you could mount an M1919 browning machine gun on it. The M1919, if not using a rechambered weapon uses .30-06 which is pretty common (as far as I know more common then 7.62x51mm) and the metal belts can be relinked and reloaded if you setup a catch bag.

Anyway, my ultimate road train would have an armored cab, setup for redundant wheels (2 to an axle, even in the front), trailing a box trailer setup with storage and some basic living quarters, basically bunks, small food prep area, small bath, a second box trailer for storage and a basic machine shop, a third trailer (probably car carrier) for light vehicles, dirt bikes, maybe a couple of light SUVs/Jeeps, fuel tanks on this trailer as well, final trailer with an M113 on it, spare tracks, ammo, etc.
-Matt

[Sir Blayse]

Well for my games I make any serious military hardware hard to get to. ( I used to drive a M113 back when I was in the Army, very nice vehicle.) I would not use the M113 for a few reasons, one in most cases it would be pretty slow and not really efficient- plus very maintenance dependent. I would go for a Striker like vehicle if you allow military grade hardware. Personally the military doesn't know what fuel efficientcy is and any mil spec vehicle is going to need a lot of fuel. Civilian vehicles should usually be better and easier to acquire. Plus, depending on how they mobilized or prepared for it, a lot of bases would of been just as overrun by the undead. Others will be locked down tight and you would not get any access. The only chances would be really rare to find one anywhere else in running condition.

I really like the Forester idea, but I would really have to have it heavily modified, including raising it up a bit so that it could get around obstacles better. I'm still not sure how well it would get over other vehicles though, probably would still have to go around them. Of course a smart group would never go into a large city, millions of zombies is just bad no matter what- even if you had 100,000 armed men going in. What kind of gas mileage does the Forester get? Plus, just about any of those all-wheel drive SUV should be ok if modified right.

[azazel1024]

LAV-25? I drove one in an internship I had in college we were working with a defense contractor and when touring the facility they had a LAV-25 there for a system they were designing for them. We got to be driven around the lot and play with it a bunch and then they let a couple of us drive it around a bit as well. Lots of fun, and all the metal seems to go FAST, even when your only driving 30mph. Something wheeled would probably be a little easier for reliability I'd think.

Or maybe a cadilac gage?

For a Foster, my wife's old one gets about 24mpg. I figure with something like 300-800lbs of armoring on it (anything from extra body panels welded on to 3/16" plate steel) it would probably be more like 18-20mpg. It has decent road clearance now, I can drive over concrete parking lot bumpers (I'd guess around 7-8 inches of clearance). To enhance it I would totally redo the suspension with an airbag suspension so that I can lower it a bit for better on road perfomance (especially with say half a ton of armoring on it) and then raise it up for obstacle avoidance. Probably not going to be able to drive over vehicles unless it is a motorcycle it is driving over. Curbs, medium sized rocks, zombies, retros and debris piles (or stairs) shouldn't be a problem. Some frame reinforcing while your in there and push bars front and rear and you could probably push another car out of the way without any real issues (espeically with nearly a half ton of extra armor on the car), same with store fronts, brick walls (not concrete walls), mailboxes and small trees.
-Matt

PS I just did the math, I don't know the actual surface area of a Foster, but if we said it was 80sq-ft to armor, that is around 600lbs for 3/16" mild steel, 7.6lbs per sq-ft. A lot of weight, but manageble with some other work on the vehicle.

[Sir Blayse]

you would probably have to find a way to add a more robust engine with all that armor... the up armored HUMMVs we used overseas were crazy heavy vehicles. Now 600 lbs. of armor is pretty light compared to those, but also figure that this vehicle is going to be adding more weight in supplies. personlly i'm not too worried about a lot of armor on it. probably just stuff to cover the windows to prevent easy access by zeds, hopefully we are not dealing with IED's or bullets... push bars and winches are a must on any raid truck. does the forester have a sunroof, if so i would mount a weapon on the roof. not a machinegun, but just a pivot platform for a sharpshooter to use. probably with a .270 or .30 06 or maybe a normal shotgun with buckshot. i'd rather the range though.

[azazel1024]

It does have a sunroof. I'd have the pintal mount setup so that it can be used for either a rifle or a machinegun. For the weight, I've loaded it down with about 1,000lbs total before, it handles like a whale then. Of course with the proper suspension modifications, a bit of beefing to the frame (gusseting, some reinforcing bars and welding all the joints) things should be good. It is pretty easy to turbocharge the EJ25 motor that is in there, the current engine is the naturally aspirated version of the WRX 2.5l turbocharged engine and a quick oil and transmision cooler can handle the extra strain. I figured on something like 3/16" mild steel as that should be fairly resistant to something like a really strong tank zed beating on it, that or the occasional sapling/mailbox/store front that you have to hit at speed. Also for bullets, you never know with other raiders/bandits/retros. 3/16" is to thin to be a serious hinderance to something heavy, but it should provide some protection from pistol caliber bullets, buckshot and some of the lighter rifle rounds, especially at longer ranges.

For window protection I'd go all punisher on it. If I could find the materials I'd cut lexan/polycarb to replace all of the windows (1/4") and then fit 3/16" thick steel shutters over all of them that I could open/close from inside. Probably a secondary spare gas tank and a skid plate covering the whole bottom of the vehicle.

You could make up a bit of the weight gained by stripping the interior of anything not needed as well as ditching some things like the air conditioner. Its amazing how much weight is in a car that is just fat.
-Matt

[Sir Blayse]

All the other stuff sound great except for this one..

You could make up a bit of the weight gained by stripping the interior of anything not needed as well as ditching some things like the air conditioner. Its amazing how much weight is in a car that is just fat.

In the American southwest AC is very important, even more so with all the window reinforcing. Overseas I experienced working from both up-armored Hummers and M113's. In the heat those 113s could be horrible, the AC does not need to make it cold, just cooler. One trick we used on old model HUMMVs was to use the compressor setup from a fridge or freezer and just wire it into the vehicle, you could then remove the other AC that comes with the vehicle.

[AzathothXy]

Here's mine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmaster

[CyCo]

Oh, don't forget the Unimog!! How could I forget these beasts. How could you go past a 4x4 light truck with a fully articulated chassis, which can easily be adapted to be used as a backhoe, snow plow, plow, poll drilling platform....

[Sir Blayse]

Landmaster very cool, too bad there is only one. That is pretty cool. Unimog is interesting for options, but pretty small.

[azazel1024]

All the other stuff sound great except for this one..

You could make up a bit of the weight gained by stripping the interior of anything not needed as well as ditching some things like the air conditioner. Its amazing how much weight is in a car that is just fat.

In the American southwest AC is very important, even more so with all the window reinforcing. Overseas I experienced working from both up-armored Hummers and M113's. In the heat those 113s could be horrible, the AC does not need to make it cold, just cooler. One trick we used on old model HUMMVs was to use the compressor setup from a fridge or freezer and just wire it into the vehicle, you could then remove the other AC that comes with the vehicle.

I didn't think about that, I keep thing in terms of New England/Mid-atlantic heat. A fridge compressor would work a lot better, then you could run it with the engine off, though you'd probably want a spare battery or two, which kind of negates the weight savings of taking off the old AC system, but for those times you want to run the AC, even at a low level while off you'd be golden.
-Matt

[asajosh]

I just located this the other day, might give that Australian tank a run for its money.

http://virtualfunzone.com/this-is-comfo ... house.html

[Sir Blayse]

Wow, what is that thing and where can you get one? That is a pretty good truck, plus the four-wheel carrier is a nice touch. It would still need some major mods for it to work, but very nice in open areas.

[asajosh]

Wow, what is that thing and where can you get one? That is a pretty good truck, plus the four-wheel carrier is a nice touch. It would still need some major mods for it to work, but very nice in open areas.

If your refering to my post above, the manufacturer is MAN (a German company). I've been to their site and while they DO make RVs and Buses, the truck trailor depicted in my previous link is a custom job built into one of MANs industiral models.
I hear that the drop down "vehicle bay" can also accomodate a Mini Cooper, if four wheeling is not your style!

[CyCo]

Great find!

Those MAN trucks, as well as similar vehicles, are used as support vehicles in things like the Dakkar rally, and I believe they even race in their own class. Didn't know they were used as off road campers though. Very cool.

Forget about a Mini Cooper if you don't want a quad bike. It may not be an off road vehicle, but it carries a Mercedes coupe in it's belly!

[azazel1024]

What about an M939 6x6 truck? Rated for 10,000lbs off road, widely available from military bases, national guard armories, some 'decommisioned' ones in private hands. Not stellar off road ability, but not bad either. Its got the weight to push through obstructions that aren't to sever and it has the bed space for a rough and ready conversion for hauling stuff, sleeper, kitchenette, etc.
-Matt

[rat_bastard]

BMW Isetta 300

[azazel1024]

BMW Isetta 300

At least it would be easy to portage around obstacles.
-Matt