Demon and Deevil Question

[Lenwen]

As far as their "deaths" are concerned, i had a really dumb question...Since they can only experience a "true" death in their home dimensions, if one were to say, i don't know, get a hold of a swimming pool full of sand from the great dyval desert and captured a deevil and had him standing on/in the sand, and you killed him would he experience a "true" death since he /she was standing on "home" soil? or say mixing some of the sand into the weapon making process(ancient weapons...sword...dagger...and so on)...if the deevil was pierced through the heart with that type of weapon(since there are elements of the home dimension in the blade) would he/she experience a "true" death (permanent)...thanks...

I'd say no.

They have to be killed in thier home Dimension. Not on thier homeland soil.

Edit: I've changed this answer as well as included the reason why.

[sHaka]

As above.

Deevils/demons aren't like vampires who need a link to the stuff of their own dimension. They are stuff of their own dimension and, thus, can only meet their true end there.

[EDIT] Oh, and welcome to the forums!

[Torval]

I probably don't need to voice my opinion given the answers above but I would also say that they must be killed in their own dimension. I cannot see the above stated idea working.

[Carl Gleba]

As far as their "deaths" are concerned, i had a really dumb question...Since they can only experience a "true" death in their home dimensions, if one were to say, i don't know, get a hold of a swimming pool full of sand from the great dyval desert and captured a deevil and had him standing on/in the sand, and you killed him would he experience a "true" death since he /she was standing on "home" soil? or say mixing some of the sand into the weapon making process(ancient weapons...sword...dagger...and so on)...if the deevil was pierced through the heart with that type of weapon(since there are elements of the home dimension in the blade) would he/she experience a "true" death (permanent)...thanks...

Welcome to the boards Kyra

I can see where your logic comes from. Basically along the lines of how a vampire needs to lie in the earth from where they were created. Its a good thought, but demons and deevils are different. Essentially their essence or soul is tied to their home dimension. So when they are killed outside of their dimension there is a sort of automatic recall to their dimension. It's part of their pseudo immortality. When they are killed on their own dimension their essence is pulled in a million different directions and poof its gone, no rebirth.

I wouldn't rule out a weapon of some sort. It would probably be along the lines of a rune weapon forged from some kind of metal found on Hades. It would be uber rare and if the demons got word that someone had one of these weapons you can bet they would be hunted down relentlessly by demons. Thanks for the idea Kyra

There may be something else coming up in Megaverse in Flames where demons/deevils can be killed outside of their realms, but that's all I can say at this time

Carl

[Misfit KotLD]

As far as their "deaths" are concerned, i had a really dumb question...Since they can only experience a "true" death in their home dimensions, if one were to say, i don't know, get a hold of a swimming pool full of sand from the great dyval desert and captured a deevil and had him standing on/in the sand, and you killed him would he experience a "true" death since he /she was standing on "home" soil? or say mixing some of the sand into the weapon making process(ancient weapons...sword...dagger...and so on)...if the deevil was pierced through the heart with that type of weapon(since there are elements of the home dimension in the blade) would he/she experience a "true" death (permanent)...thanks...

Welcome to the boards Kyra

I can see where your logic comes from. Basically along the lines of how a vampire needs to lie in the earth from where they were created. Its a good thought, but demons and deevils are different. Essentially their essence or soul is tied to their home dimension. So when they are killed outside of their dimension there is a sort of automatic recall to their dimension. It's part of their pseudo immortality. When they are killed on their own dimension their essence is pulled in a million different directions and poof its gone, no rebirth.

I wouldn't rule out a weapon of some sort. It would probably be along the lines of a rune weapon forged from some kind of metal found on Hades. It would be uber rare and if the demons got word that someone had one of these weapons you can bet they would be hunted down relentlessly by demons. Thanks for the idea Kyra

There may be something else coming up in Megaverse in Flames where demons/deevils can be killed outside of their realms, but that's all I can say at this time

Carl

I don't remember seeing this, but how about soul drinking weapons and demons/deevils?

[Carl Gleba]

I don't remember seeing this, but how about soul drinking weapons and demons/deevils?

Hmm, good question. I would have to say in my opinion, yes they would be killed with a soul drink, or at the very least have their souls imprisoned. This was actually my inspiration for the Soul Catcher Demon. Check out their natural abilities. They can take the souls of any being (including supernatural beings, creatures of magic) except alien intelligences. So I would say a Rune weapon would work with this reasoning.

Carl

[Carl Gleba]

My thanks to all who had replied...especially Carl...I never would have expected to actually get a reply from you, that's super cool. I had just been watching the Pirates of the Caribbean and it was the part where Davy Jones got around the "coming on land every 10 years" bit by standing in a bucket of water on land, and wondered if it could be applied to the Demons and Deevils in some way...but thanks again to all who replied ...Kyra

Hey, that's why the freelancers are on the boards. We are more than happy to answer any questions.

Hope your enjoying Hades.

Carl

[Sgt Anjay]

Hope your enjoying Hades.

Carl

This, on a t-shirt and/or bumper sticker, please.

Wicked illustration of Modeus or other appropriate figure optional but appreciated.

[Carl Gleba]

Hope your enjoying Hades.

Carl

This, on a t-shirt and/or bumper sticker, please.

Wicked illustration of Modeus or other appropriate figure optional but appreciated.

I didn't even think of it that way

I'll see what I can come up with and I'll tell Kevin

Carl

[Saitou Hajime]

Fully agree Home dimention

[Nekira Sudacne]

As far as their "deaths" are concerned, i had a really dumb question...Since they can only experience a "true" death in their home dimensions, if one were to say, i don't know, get a hold of a swimming pool full of sand from the great dyval desert and captured a deevil and had him standing on/in the sand, and you killed him would he experience a "true" death since he /she was standing on "home" soil? or say mixing some of the sand into the weapon making process(ancient weapons...sword...dagger...and so on)...if the deevil was pierced through the heart with that type of weapon(since there are elements of the home dimension in the blade) would he/she experience a "true" death (permanent)...thanks...

Welcome to the boards Kyra

I can see where your logic comes from. Basically along the lines of how a vampire needs to lie in the earth from where they were created. Its a good thought, but demons and deevils are different. Essentially their essence or soul is tied to their home dimension. So when they are killed outside of their dimension there is a sort of automatic recall to their dimension. It's part of their pseudo immortality. When they are killed on their own dimension their essence is pulled in a million different directions and poof its gone, no rebirth.

I wouldn't rule out a weapon of some sort. It would probably be along the lines of a rune weapon forged from some kind of metal found on Hades. It would be uber rare and if the demons got word that someone had one of these weapons you can bet they would be hunted down relentlessly by demons. Thanks for the idea Kyra

There may be something else coming up in Megaverse in Flames where demons/deevils can be killed outside of their realms, but that's all I can say at this time

Carl

Yea...that's one Cliche that always bugged the hell out of me: "If the characters get a weapon of any real power, they'll be hunted down relentlessly". What, there's a rumor mill, but to see some GM's tell it, dispite the weapon being previously lost where no one can find it, the second a party member picks it up and puts it in an opaque pack, virtually every ruthless villian or nobel across five dimesions can automatically hone in on it and send minions to harass them relentlessly.

[Carl Gleba]

Yea...that's one Cliche that always bugged the hell out of me: "If the characters get a weapon of any real power, they'll be hunted down relentlessly". What, there's a rumor mill, but to see some GM's tell it, dispite the weapon being previously lost where no one can find it, the second a party member picks it up and puts it in an opaque pack, virtually every ruthless villian or nobel across five dimesions can automatically hone in on it and send minions to harass them relentlessly.

I see it more being the consequences of ones actions. Sure character X fines uber demon slaying sword that kills any demons permanently. Yeah, they'll get away with it for a while and maybe if their careful for months or years. But you can't tell me that a demon or even a lower minion might not get away to report back to Hades. Furthermore people are much easier to find that weapons that have been purposely hidden away for centuries. People leave trails and loose ends that ultimately someone can pick up on.

At least that's my POV.

Carl

[Nekira Sudacne]

Yea...that's one Cliche that always bugged the hell out of me: "If the characters get a weapon of any real power, they'll be hunted down relentlessly". What, there's a rumor mill, but to see some GM's tell it, dispite the weapon being previously lost where no one can find it, the second a party member picks it up and puts it in an opaque pack, virtually every ruthless villian or nobel across five dimesions can automatically hone in on it and send minions to harass them relentlessly.

I see it more being the consequences of ones actions. Sure character X fines uber demon slaying sword that kills any demons permanently. Yeah, they'll get away with it for a while and maybe if their careful for months or years. But you can't tell me that a demon or even a lower minion might not get away to report back to Hades. Furthermore people are much easier to find that weapons that have been purposely hidden away for centuries. People leave trails and loose ends that ultimately someone can pick up on.

At least that's my POV.

Carl

Kinda depends on how often they even run into demons. I don't really think they're in every town or even most towns. There's too many mystics and psi-stalkers running around Rifts Earth. Even demons have gotta tread lightly, and there's no way that most demon minions would even recognise it. It's been lost for centuries, there was only one of it, and most lesser demons who DID see such a sword, wouldn't have survived to tell the tale.

All told, Say there IS a super rune sword that can kill demons permanently anywhere. It's unreasonable to expect more than, what, 2% of the demon popluation to even have a CHANCE of recognising it realistically, and if they just keep that thing in a pack or sheeth most of the time, the odds of a demon not only seeing it but surviving to return becomes much slimmer.

I'm not saying they won't leave a trail, i'm saying the average demon/minion won't recognise the trail for what it is, and the only way they COULD is the GM just screwing with them under most circumstances.

[Carl Gleba]

Kinda depends on how often they even run into demons. I don't really think they're in every town or even most towns. There's too many mystics and psi-stalkers running around Rifts Earth. Even demons have gotta tread lightly, and there's no way that most demon minions would even recognise it. It's been lost for centuries, there was only one of it, and most lesser demons who DID see such a sword, wouldn't have survived to tell the tale.

All told, Say there IS a super rune sword that can kill demons permanently anywhere. It's unreasonable to expect more than, what, 2% of the demon popluation to even have a CHANCE of recognising it realistically, and if they just keep that thing in a pack or sheeth most of the time, the odds of a demon not only seeing it but surviving to return becomes much slimmer.

I'm not saying they won't leave a trail, i'm saying the average demon/minion won't recognise the trail for what it is, and the only way they COULD is the GM just screwing with them under most circumstances.

Oh, I agree. If the character keeps a low profile, or even takes the sword and puts it on a mantle somewhere I don't think they'll be much of a target nor will the average demon even know what the weapon does.

But...if our character goes on a demon killing spree, hunting them down, or is on some kind of "save the world from a demon invasion quest" and if big bad greater demon bubba doesn't come back from say an important mission and others who follow in his wake fail to come back I think the demon lords or at least some high ranking demons may suspect something is up. Not being stupid I'm sure they would send some kind of scout to find out who snuffed out bubba.

Carl

[Captain Shiva]

As far as their "deaths" are concerned, i had a really dumb question...Since they can only experience a "true" death in their home dimensions, if one were to say, i don't know, get a hold of a swimming pool full of sand from the great dyval desert and captured a deevil and had him standing on/in the sand, and you killed him would he experience a "true" death since he /she was standing on "home" soil? or say mixing some of the sand into the weapon making process(ancient weapons...sword...dagger...and so on)...if the deevil was pierced through the heart with that type of weapon(since there are elements of the home dimension in the blade) would he/she experience a "true" death (permanent)...thanks...

I would say no,because the "dimensional background energies," for want of a better term,are in my opinion,what gives that dimension its singular qualities.That is an interesting idea,though.It could provide a rationale for a "bane" type of weapon,that does bonus damage to specific creatures.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Yea...that's one Cliche that always bugged the hell out of me: "If the characters get a weapon of any real power, they'll be hunted down relentlessly". What, there's a rumor mill, but to see some GM's tell it, dispite the weapon being previously lost where no one can find it, the second a party member picks it up and puts it in an opaque pack, virtually every ruthless villian or nobel across five dimesions can automatically hone in on it and send minions to harass them relentlessly.

I see it more being the consequences of ones actions. Sure character X fines uber demon slaying sword that kills any demons permanently. Yeah, they'll get away with it for a while and maybe if their careful for months or years. But you can't tell me that a demon or even a lower minion might not get away to report back to Hades. Furthermore people are much easier to find that weapons that have been purposely hidden away for centuries. People leave trails and loose ends that ultimately someone can pick up on.

At least that's my POV.

Carl

Kinda depends on how often they even run into demons. I don't really think they're in every town or even most towns. There's too many mystics and psi-stalkers running around Rifts Earth. Even demons have gotta tread lightly, and there's no way that most demon minions would even recognise it. It's been lost for centuries, there was only one of it, and most lesser demons who DID see such a sword, wouldn't have survived to tell the tale.

All told, Say there IS a super rune sword that can kill demons permanently anywhere. It's unreasonable to expect more than, what, 2% of the demon popluation to even have a CHANCE of recognising it realistically, and if they just keep that thing in a pack or sheeth most of the time, the odds of a demon not only seeing it but surviving to return becomes much slimmer.

I'm not saying they won't leave a trail, i'm saying the average demon/minion won't recognise the trail for what it is, and the only way they COULD is the GM just screwing with them under most circumstances.

just my 2 cents here, but (1) IF such a weapon were made,if hero X pulled it out in the middle of battle, might it not glow some kind of color? faint or not?

No. In fact I can't think of a single glowing weapon in all of palladium, except for flaming blades, which really tell you nothing other than it's on fire.

(2) in the heat of battle the last thing you're looking at is his weapon and how you're going to describe, or sketch it later for someone (3) what are we calling a demon/deevil slaying binge? 25,50,100,1000? With the millions upon millions on both sides, unless they were a greater demon/deevil or prince/lord, whatever, neither side would pay too much attention to it. How would they know if demon/deevil X were killed permanently? the rebirth process takes decades, by that time, who would know if demon/deevil X didn't come back to life, considering they could live for hundreds of years or thousands even before they go through their 1st rebirth. In other words, if they've been away from Hades or Dyval for soooo long who would know that demon/deevil X had been killed, with no rebirth they'd still just think demon/deevil X is still alive and (4) wouldn't kill them permanently, but the bone weapons from either side would seem much easier to obtain than the Mystical Rune Sword of Permanent Demon/Deevil Slaying +12

The rest your going to have to clarify, and hopefully space out. I have no idea what any of that is trying to say.

[Lenwen]

As far as their "deaths" are concerned, i had a really dumb question...Since they can only experience a "true" death in their home dimensions, if one were to say, i don't know, get a hold of a swimming pool full of sand from the great dyval desert and captured a deevil and had him standing on/in the sand, and you killed him would he experience a "true" death since he /she was standing on "home" soil? or say mixing some of the sand into the weapon making process(ancient weapons...sword...dagger...and so on)...if the deevil was pierced through the heart with that type of weapon(since there are elements of the home dimension in the blade) would he/she experience a "true" death (permanent)...thanks...

Game mechanic's wise I'd say no. Native soil does not translate into native Dimension.

PC's doing this very thing, I'd say I'd allow it. Just to be able to get the sand from hell would be 1 heck of an adventure in its own right, let alone getting the demon/deevil to stand on it still like ..

So two answer's, for one question lol hope this helps ..