What would be best for Rifts: Earth (in my opinion)

[Dunia]

Instead of throwing book after book out on the market of new and wonderful settings wehere the monsters are harder the OOCs and RCCs are more and more awesome and the powerlevel is higher, Paladium Books should really choose a few settings and focus on them and do a canon ending to the others.

For example, PB have a few larger settings: North America, South America, Russia & Europe and Far East, then it has Underseas, Lemuria, Australia, Atlantis etc as lesser places.

So , my thought would be that PB take a deep look at the world Books for Rifts and sit down and think hard on keeping the American Continent, Central Europe, Far East (China/Japan), and Atlantis. The rest should perish in catastrophies and/or plagues, volcano incidents etc. Then they should fill out these settings with new material and especially new major plotlines that will drive the world forward.

Lets take the different settings and looks at:
North America: add books about major kingdoms like Lazlo & New Lazlo, Kingsdale, Man. Empire & Ipsh, Northern Gun as well as the Republicans and build up one or two major storylines that will run throughout these books that will affect all of North America. Have it open so that the Players will be able to shape the entire future of this continent. If time permits add other settings. But focus on the major ones. Start up the various plots that you have only hinted about
Central Europe: Focus on the Triax and its problem, but add some info of neighbouring states. Start up with a major plotline that will shape and change Europe forever. And make it possible for the Players to help shape it. Maybe have the Russian Warlords invade poland and threaten NGR
Far East: Focus o the growing conflict between the tech and the traditional society as well as the battle against the chinese Hell. Maybe Japan decides to invade China and clean it up?
Atlantis: Make Atlantis have a rebellion against the Spluggies or let Atlantis be moving outwards to colonize chosen parts of the world

The other settings, Africa, Australia, underseas...get rid of them totally or discontinue the storys (keep them in rifter) Have a Giant super volcano swallow australia and let it sink to the bottom of the ocean and voala, no need for two more books Africa could be devestaed by the Spluggies who wish to colonize the continent. And do a Atlantis vs Phoenix Empire book where the players can choose to aid either side and dictate the outcome.


As it is now, there is no feeling that anything moves forward, PB has too many stories in the air and no time to do anything at all that feels worthwile to follow. I mean in the Xiticix book, there was big plans and actions from New Lazlo which were totally killed by other books, Whatever happened with the Coalition and its war? why is FoM just sitting there and not taking advantage of teh situation? Every plot you make in one book, will be ignored and decimated in the next book and it willappear as if that thing never happened.

I for one, will probably not care to buy that many books that has nothing to do with Northern America to be honest. The rest, I will glance at the stores or photocopy (or write down on paper) from friends books.

[The Baron of chaos]

I politely suggest you retire what you said about Rifts: Australia right now . For the rest I quite agree with you. An indeep wokr on some setting won't hurt. (I, personally, have a strongwish for some revision/expansion onf Rifts: Japan)

[sHaka]

Sorry Dunia, I have to disagree.

I've always considered Rifts' strongest suit to be it's ability to accommodate any game/group/campaign/terrain/culture imaginable. To say, yeah, that foreign place over there... went boom or just...sank.. is kind of lame and precisely the kind of "handwavium" that grates on many posters here.

Yeah, give us some more detailed books on the more popular locales or the books that have been promised and repeatedly held up, but don't try to put a limit on the infinite world of Rifts, pretty please.

[csbioborg]

I don't agree with actually destroying the other continents but I definetly agree with moving forward with the storyline.


One of the major reasons D&D has been much more succesful as rpg is that they keep on trucking.
You don't need to make 30 cities you just need waterdeep and what is going on in waterdeep year 1
time of madness etc

I'd keep to North America and the NGR and keep that timeline going.

[Dunia]

To be honest, I think that a whole continent like Australia would go boom and sink would be quite exiting in my oppinion, I could had said Iceland or greenland as well, but I think that having a placed that is relative civilized and very magical go boom would build up a fantastic story for the rest of the world.

Just think of it: All the magic that exist in Australia would make consequences all over the globe, almost in proportion to the coming of the rifts. A new wave of open supernexuses and ley line storms from the other side of the solar system would emerge and reshape the entire world. magic would go heywire and now that I think of it...I think that I will start doing that in my campaign...it would be fun to see hwta can happen.

So no, I will not retire it, I think its an awsome idea to have the chaos come back to the world.

[Shark_Force]

To be honest, I think that a whole continent like Australia would go boom and sink would be quite exiting in my oppinion, I could had said Iceland or greenland as well, but I think that having a placed that is relative civilized and very magical go boom would build up a fantastic story for the rest of the world.

Just think of it: All the magic that exist in Australia would make consequences all over the globe, almost in proportion to the coming of the rifts. A new wave of open supernexuses and ley line storms from the other side of the solar system would emerge and reshape the entire world. magic would go heywire and now that I think of it...I think that I will start doing that in my campaign...it would be fun to see hwta can happen.

So no, I will not retire it, I think its an awsome idea to have the chaos come back to the world.

ummm... suggestion: invest in the chaos earth books? then go play a rifts: chaos earth game...

[keir451]

Dunia, what you're essentially saying is you want Kevin to decide for us what kingdoms and storylines we can or can't create. That's not the point of Rifts nor is it Kevins' goal. Kevin is providing us with enough info. so we know the basics of the setting and then, by leaving the rest blank, allows us to use our imaginations to fill in the rest AS WE SEE FIT.
If I want a complete storyline from someone else I'll go buy a book, with Rifts, I and my players, get to drive the story line forward as WE want to, not according to someone elses script.
I may disagree w/ some of the other posters but I respect their creative vision for their games.
Yes I feel Rifts does need some work (I'm not the only one), but Rifts is always a work in progress, and despite my gripes is STILL an excellent game system AS IT IS. If you don't like a section of the game then don't use it, but DON'T try to say that the sections that the rest of us may like should be removed just because YOU don't think they need to be there.

[Dunia]

Dunia, what you're essentially saying is you want Kevin to decide for us what kingdoms and storylines we can or can't create. That's not the point of Rifts nor is it Kevins' goal. Kevin is providing us with enough info. so we know the basics of the setting and then, by leaving the rest blank, allows us to use our imaginations to fill in the rest AS WE SEE FIT.
If I want a complete storyline from someone else I'll go buy a book, with Rifts, I and my players, get to drive the story line forward as WE want to, not according to someone elses script.
I may disagree w/ some of the other posters but I respect their creative vision for their games.
Yes I feel Rifts does need some work (I'm not the only one), but Rifts is always a work in progress, and despite my gripes is STILL an excellent game system AS IT IS. If you don't like a section of the game then don't use it, but DON'T try to say that the sections that the rest of us may like should be removed just because YOU don't think they need to be there.

What I say is that:
1 ) Kevin and PB should invest more time and books in creating a few Storylines and leave the rest of the world to different GMs and their playergroups.
2 ) He already has a few Metaplots in the game, like Tolkeen War, The war in Hell between Dyvall and that other place... So he is already
3 ) As someone said o the forums before: Kevin's goal is to make money.
4 ) What I suggested was to have books that allowed each group to play the campaigns and have the induvidual group shape their words, instead of having a camaign like the the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse lose in africa and Tolkeen wars where Tolkeen will lose no matter what happen (if you want to follow the canon). In the past 5 months I have been here on this forums, I have seen lots threads and post complain that Tolkeen was oblitterarted by the CS and that it shouldnot have happened if it was more realistical. So that is why I want open campaigns, where the outcome is not decided. This far all campaigns I have seen in Rifts: Tolkeen, Africa and SB1 are all as if you follow Kevins script and you cannot do anything else, for example it would be fun to have the players join ARCHIE or take over Hagan's possition and dispose of him.
5 ) My proposal to limit the number of settings was taken from the perspective (not where I like best, but from the thought of where most books are placed at this moment) Most books are placed in 1) Europe, The Americas and Far East, and Atlantis is a very important place in Rifts.

[DtMK]

Going forward with the storylines is a good idea, but genocide and destruction of entire land masses or undersea kingdoms seems a bit too extreme for my opinion.

[keir451]

Dunia; Certainly Kevin wants to make money off his product, without it he can't publish more books.
I agree that the Tolkeen war was badly done, only I think it would have taken less time for the CS to draw up their battle lines and crush Tolkeen. With the CS ability to move troops via DHTs and Firestorm Mobile fortresses and the fact that this war was already planned well in advance of it's execution, it would've taken no more than a few months to set up and a only a year or two to crush Tolkeen.
I, too, don't care much for the Dyval series, but that is because I want the other books he's promised us for the past decade FIRST, not as an after thought.
The potential for open campaigns is still there, just use your imagination ( I know you have a good one, I've read your posts).
The biggest problem w/ Rifts is the lack of advertisement in any media, the lack of promised material and the overwhelming presence of "Evil" groups in the world. Where are the "Good Guys"?
Limiting the game, which is Rifts Earth, not just Rifts America or Rifts Japan, etc., would probably kill the company that produces the game we all enjoy.
IMO, Kevin needs to turn things like Triax 2, Australias 2 & 3, Lemuria, etc. over to guys like C.J. Carella or Jason Richards or Braden Campbell, people who CAN get these books out and make them great, that'll leave Kevin the time to concentrate on other projects like better advertising, or getting a model comapany to make plastic models of DHTs or turning the figurine molds over to Ral Partha so we can finally get more Rifts figurines. If those things were available I and many of the Rifts players I've met over the years WOULD buy them and that WOULD increase Palladium's profits and help keep the company rolling.

[Jason Richards]

I read the thread and can't help but think that MMOs have really changed gamers.

Is it really being suggested that source material for an entire continent should be limited to one or two storylines? Any "major storyline" in North America will exclude the vast majority of the continent's population from consideration. Player characters in Mexico have probably never even heard of the Coalition States; for that matter, they probably don't know that in most of the world vampires don't even exist in any sort of numbers. That's just one example.

Likewise, it really being suggested that in an entire continent it should be cut down to two factions? When are their ever only two factions in anything?

Things in Rifts have actually moved forward quite a bit on all fronts. In game time it's only been around 10 years.

[Dunia]

I read the thread and can't help but think that MMOs have really changed gamers.

Is it really being suggested that source material for an entire continent should be limited to one or two storylines? Any "major storyline" in North America will exclude the vast majority of the continent's population from consideration. Player characters in Mexico have probably never even heard of the Coalition States; for that matter, they probably don't know that in most of the world vampires don't even exist in any sort of numbers. That's just one example.

Likewise, it really being suggested that in an entire continent it should be cut down to two factions? When are their ever only two factions in anything?

Things in Rifts have actually moved forward quite a bit on all fronts. In game time it's only been around 10 years.

The thing is as the campaigns I have seen in the books I have read (either mine, or my friends) all campaigns that have been made are so railroaded that it feels like a movie script. If I were to play/GM the Tolkeen wars - to stick to canon, Tolkeen must fall no matter what. If I am to play SB1 campaign, no matter what, the players are being railroaded to ARCHIES fake base, and in Africa the players are being railroaded to destroy the 4 horsemen, if they do not do it then the mighty NPC army will.

So I suggest open campaigns, in a Swedish RPG that I use to play and even write for, all campaigns were left open. The start was set, encounters along the way and a good endscene and it was up to the players to do what they felt were fun. And in the afterwords there were sugestions to the GM that if players do A, then this will happen, if they do B, then the world can reshape this way and if they do C, this is a good thought on what might happen.

And in further books that were part of this campaign, there was a brief (1/2 page intro what has happened in the first book, then an intro on how to start book two from perspectives A, B and C and then it moved on to the campaignbook.

What I mean by major storylines is that things like Tolkeen War, War against Xiticix, the 4 Horesemen etc. A good set of sourcebooks in any games should never ever contradict itself, nor should they just ignore what was written in a previous book. This is one major reason why I do not feel inclined to buy that many books to Rifts, when I got my Xiticix book, I was like "Oh this is a good plot, sorry that Aftermath just ignored it" And from what I have learned there are so many other stories like that.
So what I would like to see, is that they build one really big storyline around the Coalition States for the NOrth American setting and incorperate that with other lose stories they have made over the last 15 or so years and move it forward.
In this they can learn from GDW who published Traveller. In each number of their magazine, GDW published news from the universe that could be used as advanture spots, and the timeline moved forward every 2 months with 2 weeks or so, and major news and well as some minor was published. Never more than 10 lines each.
That was a great way of making 1) The universe felt alive both for the GM and for the Players as you could copy those news and hand them out to the players. 2) The Storyline moved forward all the time and not stopped (as in rifts in year 109PA) 3) New campaing modules were placed in either as the news were published or they were set "floating in time"

Two Factions, where did I say that?

[keir451]

You're right that in some cases we are being railroaded, but do you honestly want to try and take the REAL HQ Echo!? Or allow the Four Horsemen to roam free? What of the Mechanoids on Rifts Earth?
I would love to see Kevin (or anyone else, for that matter) move the storylines forward in different and interesting ways and YES!! source books should not contradict each other or previous books ( a serious problem in Rifts publications).
The Rifters are Kevin's way of doing the "Traveller" concept, he allows fans and Freelancers to publish concepts for the world that players may like and his own works that help drive the story of Rifts forward.
There's still plenty of room in Rifts for open ended campaigns, but it's up to us to create them.

[RainOfSteel]

Here is My Opinion:

First: Rifts 2.0. RUE was a good move, but it wasn't enough. Some major improvements are still necessary.

Second: Rifts Earth 2.0. A complete revision of the entire campaign universe, all portions, from CS, to Sol system, to the Three Galaxies. It would have improved layouts that require less space to list NPCs, gear, and vehicles. It would include professionally designed high-quality maps (such as Campaign Cartographer can output). It would have all new artwork with the exceptions of the most classic items from the original game. The major books would be in hard back. All milieu material, from fluff-text to vehicle stats (especially MDC and weapon damage) would be thoroughly reviewed, unified, and leveled (made consistent) across the entire milieu.

Very important to me:

1) Keep the numbers of populations and troop counts down, down, down on Rift's Earth. Do not escalate this, please. This needs to be a struggling post-apocalyptic world, not a world of nations that deploy armies with huge numbers of troops, massive numbers of robots and mecha, and air fleets that fill the sky. (My version of the CS has it with just a dozen operable Death's Head Armored Transports, and only four Firestorms.)

2) The titanic profusion of classes must stop. New OCCs/RCCs are tossed about like candy. It is the center-piece of why I have stopped playing Rifts. Every player just must play that one obscure little OCC/RCC seen in a Rifter somewhere that the GM knows nothing about and doesn't fit into the game anyway. It is maddening because there are scores of them (possibly hundreds now). It is totally disruptive to game and campaign development. Please do not try and tell me, "You can control that." No, you can't, because if a player will just toss a hissy fit and not play if he/she doesn't get what she wants, and then everyone else won't play in a show of solidarity, then nothing happens. Further, statements like, "Get a new gaming group," are also quite useless as new gaming groups are simply not available. (It hardly matters, as the majority of gamers I have run into, even those well outside my own gaming group, are not much different.) D&D 3.0/3.5 suffered the same issue with the immense profusion of Prestige Classes.

3) The magic system mechanics would be revised, expanded, and more thoroughly explained, and the same goes for psionics. A 1000+ post topic just on whether it is possible or not to teleport into a vehicle/mecha should not be possible. It should be clear from the established rationales of the magic system and the text of the spell. Another lengthy topic arguing how various force-field/defense spells layer together should also not be possible. Again, it should be clear from the know mechanics and rationales of the system. This goes for many other aspects, from how to regenerate, store, and move PPE in ALL cases, to how to develop new spells, etc.

Not Important to me:

1) Continuation of the storylines. I could care less. Just give me the known basic existing storylines. I will use or ignore them at will anyway. I do not need temporal advancement. I need unification and consistency of existing milieu material.

Books:

Rifts Main Book: Classes, races, game mechanics, equipment, magic, psionics, weapons, vehicles, etc. The basic book on the game itself. I would put no world material in it. I personally would divorce classes from milieu specifics as noted above. I would personally like to see entirely new multi-classing rules.

Rifts: Gear: A new full compilation of gear.

Rifts: Magic: A new full compilation of magic and psionics. Full WORKING developmental rules for enchanting items, developing spells, etc.

Rifts: North America: Concentrates on a broad overview of North America. (A large book)

Further continent books, each a large book.

Detail books for areas on continents, moderate sized each. Because there are many continents and sub-areas, this is a rich area for publication.

Campaign/Adventure books. A redesign and unification of the Tolkeen and Xiticix conflicts, etc.

---------------

Benefits: PB gets to sell a whole slew of new books. Players get to buy new products. Yeah, it costs money, but with maybe one or two exceptions, PB has not renewed its product line in about twenty years. While the WotC's/White Wolf's tendency to renew their product lines every three to five years is terrible, every twenty years is acceptable to me.

[jedi078]

My only beef with Rifts is the power creep. I like the fact there are different OCC’s and equipment from all over the world, so I say keep the various world books and not destroy continents.

[Jason Richards]

My only beef with Rifts is the power creep. I like the fact there are different OCC’s and equipment from all over the world, so I say keep the various world books and not destroy continents.

I'm looking over the releases from the past several years, and I have to say that while power creep was once a problem, it ceased to be so a long time ago. Excepting Pat Novak, whom I have never met, I can speak for the rest of the authors of the major book releases when I say that there has been a conscious effort to dial things back over the last several years, or at the very least not to ramp things up any more.

[Jason Richards]

I considered a big post in response, but let me just put it this way:

Like most games, Rifts is very fluid. The setting is laid out and your players are dropped into it to do whatever they like. Sourcebooks take a snapshot of a part of the world and tell how it is in a single instant, before any player character is ever involved. It's a giant sandbox filled with world info that almost never changes. There are, however, occasionally "events" that move things forward. These are very, very rare.

You say that you feel like you're being railroaded. How many "events" have occurred? Tolkeen War/Fall of Tolkeen was all laid out. What else? Mechanoids were introduced and by official canon were somehow held off/beaten back, though nowhere does it say how. Horsemen were the same way, in that they were introduced and we know that they were defeated by a gathering of heroes.

There's one campaign setting where events are laid out in a major way that change/update the world. That's it. Other major "events" are self-contained and nebulous in their outcome.

If your players and their characters would like to alter the course of history in some way, however, and see to it that the Horsemen succeed, or that Tolkeen beats back the CS, or that all of the Old Ones are murdered in their sleep, that's totally fine. Not a problem. If you feel that you must follow all source material line for line, and thus can't give your players that freedom, then that's your failure as a game master, and not the fault of the source material.

[jedi078]

Excepting Pat Novak, whom I have never met, I can speak for the rest of the authors of the major book releases when I say that there has been a conscious effort to dial things back over the last several years, or at the very least not to ramp things up any more.

Well that's good to know. Still there is the issue of having to dial back the older power creep.

If your players and their characters would like to alter the course of history in some way, however, and see to it that the Horsemen succeed, or that Tolkeen beats back the CS, or that all of the Old Ones are murdered in their sleep, that's totally fine. Not a problem. If you feel that you must follow all source material line for line, and thus can't give your players that freedom, then that's your failure as a game master, and not the fault of the source material.

I’m all for characters being able to alter the cannon history of Rifts. It allows for you to run a ‘what if’ campaign, or add a little twist.

For example during the Tolkeen War I see no reason why the Coalition would not have used WMD’s such as tactical nuclear weapons, nerve gas and biological weapons which target specific D-bee races. In fact in one game my character requested several SADM’s and a few CS juicers nearing last call to deploy them. We ended up nuking the town of Hillcrest.

[Dunia]

I hate to say it Dunia, but who are you to determine where/when/how I play Rifts.

While YOU may only want the book to be all about North America...I am not YOU, and I think most people here are also not YOU, and I like Rifts because it is global in scope. If anything I want less books about North America and more books about the rest of the world. Even your country, which in Rifts is apparently on par with the New German Republic.

You are awfully opinionated about what should and should not be in Rifts for someone who has repeatedly said that you don't own most of the books and don't want to spend money on buying the books...how do you know that Australia/Africa/Japan/South America/Russia isn't an awesome setting that, if you read it, you would want to see developed more?

You honeslty think I as a GM would railroad you because the defeat of the FOUR HORSEMAN OF THE APOCALYPSE is necessary? You do know what happens if they win right...there is no more Rifts Earth...why would you want to play that? And, if you actually read Africa, it hints at what would happen if only one, two, or three of the Horseman are defeated. I believe it states that Death would lie low in the New Phoenix Empire for a long time until his brothers could return or he could figure out a way to destroy Rifts Earth on his own.

If you think you know better than Kevin, please, start your own gaming company and publish your own books and let those who buy YOUR books and play YOUR setting start telling you how they would rather you focused on this and not that and feel like you are railroading them because certain races have particular attitudes regarding certain things, etc...

Well I am soooo sorry for posting a thread on what I like and dislike in Rifts, its not like everyone else do the same - and especially a thread which added in the paranthesis (in my Opinion). If you do not like my thread, then why do you care about it so much that you must reply and even put CAPITAL letters to emphasis YOUR point. I think that I am fully capable of UNDERSTANDING what YOU write even WITHOUT capital LETTERS. Maybe you should start adding colors as well to really show that you want people to UNDERSTAND that you really mean it.

If Kevin dislikes my ideas so much as you seem to do, then I am certain that he will have the decency of telling me to stop posting my opinions - but that was I thought one was allowed to do on the forum. But from now on, I will take your post to my heart and criticize all people who post stuff that they should not tell me how to play my RIFTS game.

And, really...I have decided to buy the books that are appealing to me, the rest I can borrow either from friends or at the local library (I kid you not), which has started to get a small collection of RPGs. So, I might not be as ethical as you and buy all the books, but to be honest I do not care.

By the way, I was quite disaapointed at Asutralia, the book about Underwater and even quite a few of the US settings, but I still stand for what I think, that PB needs to focus more on what they have than makning more settings. I have read almost all books up to the Dinosaur swamp - so *shrug* I think I know some of what I am talking about.

The thing is, I have nothing against constructive criticism and a dialogue about my thoughts, but you do everything but.

[csbioborg]

It might be say my failure as a DM but in reality many people that play rpgs don't play them every week and don't want to spend each campign in the same basic timeline all the time.

Progressing down a timeline gives people more material and a sense of progression with in a world. TO be honest if you have a product that is evolving it gives your lazy DM such as myself (I only play a few times a year) more material to work with. Instead of having to write a entire campagin you have a NA 110 111 etc
these doln't need to be huge changes but it helps.

Most people don't play a game where their 4-6 players could have changed the outcome of a multimillion
person war like in Tolkein. THe complaints most people have with the SoT books are they were poorly written not that they had a metaplot.

It says something that the giant in rpgs does this ie D&D. THe companies rifts can consider rivials like WoD and SHadowrun all do this. SInce lazy gamers such as myself would rather their PCs get dropped into canon world events rather than have to come up with entire metagames on our own.

[keir451]

Dunia I also apologize if I came off as rude, but Iron Manticores point is true, no matter what Kevin writes you are free to disregard, just as you are free to state your opinion on these posts.
I disagree w/ what you think is best for Rifts: Earth, just as I often disagree w/what Kevin does at times.
I've run games where the CS has fallen to the power of a reborn US Navy, or a Marduk Commander has evolved into a Deity class being and altered the relations among the Deities, I've utterly destroyed Mexico and China, I've created Galaxy spanning empires and other craziness, and many times I've completely ignored what Kevin has written. I like fairly detailed info about the world, as it gives me something to work around and with (for those times my brain won't work ), I do dislike it when I feel I can't do anything because of what Kevin's written. Having said all that I think it's important at the very least (yes I'm beating a dead horse) for Kevin to do the books he has promised us in the past and has yet to deliver upon.

[Jeffrey W.]

Like so many others here, I too disagree with what Dunia suggests might be best for Rifts: Earth.

I really like the way Rifts has progressed on the storyline. And I'm quite the opposite of csbiorborg (even though I'm in complete agreement with much of what he has added on this thread), in that I run numerous lengthy campaigns (12 to 15 game episodes per year) which closely follow the Rifts storyline progression, and find that many of the players don't want to change the world, but instead only want to be a part of it.

Palladium's Books are helpful to me, as a gamemaster, because I have the storyline continue as written in the gaming books UNLESS my players do something to alter that timeline.

Usually, the players are swept up in the setting, and go with the events as they happen. Most of us do that in real life, I suppose.

I realize and appreciate that some authors have made an attempt to keep the power creep in check. I also enjoy the S.D.C. vs. M.D.C. intermix in the game every bit as much as I enjoy the magic vs. technology intermix.

Jeffrey W.

[TechnoGothic]

I think Rifts could use a reboot.

I think with the creation of Chaos Earth there is the ability to start from Beyond the Supernatural go to Chaos Earth and then build a functional timeline forward with no contradictions.

I'd buy that in a heart beat. 13 books over a period of 2-4 years.

I Agree. RIFTS could use a Whole REBOOT. Lets not advance the Timeline method,

Here would be my list:
BTS: Reboot (return of the Victum OCC)
Modern Tech and Gadgets
BTS: Monsters and Magic
HU: Golden Age
Golden Age Adventures and World Details
Chaos Earth
Chaos Earth : Rise of Magics (this one is needed)
RIFTS : Dark Ages
RIFTS RPG (Reboot)
Rifts: Atlantis-Demon Lands
Rifts North America One: Coalition States (all of the new Coalition stuff, Tech, gear, Culture, Cities all detailed.)
Rifts North America Two: Magic Lands (Federation of Magic in detail, new magics, etc. A Unified Federation of kingdoms this time.)
RIFTS: Europe (NGR/Triax details of culture, cities. Poland, and other countries in more depth to be expanded upon in further books.)
RIFTS Mexico & Central America
Rifts South America
etc....

Changed a few things above.

From there you could build outward on a solid concise background full of nutty goodness!

As for me, right now, once I have my copy of Chaos Earth I'm really going to be done buying Palladium material as much as I love the world.

I've really got everything I need.

WildWalker

One BIG Important thing.

RIFTS need to start at YEAR 100 PA (good even number)
No World book will advance the year beyond 100 PA. They are assumed to be in January 100 PA as of the writting of the book.
Each Book can give hints and possible Story plots to follow as a group. But not printed book will expand on those plots later on as the Game books are always 100 PA January.

Myself I dislike a growing Timeline as it Shakes of Metaplot.

Additional / Optional ADVENTURE Books would be the place to follow plotlines. But mark them as Optional clearly. That no Worldbook will follow these plots or add/change the basic setting.

[Balabanto]

As far as I am concerned, keeping the current year, or even a couple years in the future after the Minion War (111-112) and keeping all the sourcebooks updated to that time period would be amazing. The problem is there are too many storylines that make people think "What the BLEEP is this? My PC's should have exploded!'

[csbioborg]

I really like the diversity of the rifts world. I really do. But I also agree they need to focus just a bit more. Throw out the giant dart board they use to create stats and such and ffs curb the power creep. Seriously, why havnt humans evolved into mdc beings by now? lol at this rate, we will be the only sdc creatures in the game in a century or so.

yes I really liked how psistalkers are now mdc being when fighting magiccal creatures
but it is secert
despites the hundreds of thosands of loyal psi stalkers born and raised in the CS
many of whom spend entire careers serving in the military
fighting alongside humans that never noticed gosh that dragon didn't turn you into pink mist just now
ah you must havegotten lucky

[Shadow Wyrm]

I would like to see a push to have more non-combat adverturers in the new books. More OCC like the rogue scientist and the operator. I would also like to more skills like Resist Torture(Splicers) That add bonuses over character development rather than all at once.

[keir451]

I would like to see a push to have more non-combat adverturers in the new books. More OCC like the rogue scientist and the operator. I would also like to more skills like Resist Torture(Splicers) That add bonuses over character development rather than all at once.

Noncom's are neat, but in the Rifts setting, if you can't fight back you die. A Baalrog isn't going to listen to your dissertation on Pre Rifts history, he'll just kill you because he can.

[csbioborg]

well it appears from the fluff that even your average village has a couple laser rifles
maybe when the game first came out md was less common now wilks seems to have traveling salesmen all across the new west

[keir451]

I would like to see a push to have more non-combat adverturers in the new books. More OCC like the rogue scientist and the operator. I would also like to more skills like Resist Torture(Splicers) That add bonuses over character development rather than all at once.

Noncom's are neat, but in the Rifts setting, if you can't fight back you die. A Baalrog isn't going to listen to your dissertation on Pre Rifts history, he'll just kill you because he can.

This I believe is where alot of the rifts roleplaying has gone away in lue of roll playing. Sure it's fun to play the ultimate of ultimates every now and then, but come on. It should be rare to come across villages with much in the way of MD tech armor/weapons. Every dark corner doesnt have a greater demon of hades hanging around it. Every person shouldnt have MD armor and weapons with 50+ e-clips and a small stockpile of explosives sitting around. Most people will only SEE a few pieces of MD tech in their lives and the only MD monsters they will probably see with any regularity are the ones common to their area.

OK, then how about the random knife in the kidney from the "beggar" on the street? For me even my Scientist/Scholaras and Vagand have SOME MD armor, life ain't always nice ya know.

[Balabanto]

well it appears from the fluff that even your average village has a couple laser rifles
maybe when the game first came out md was less common now wilks seems to have traveling salesmen all across the new west

Not only that, but that salesmen also takes food and lodging for payment. Maybe he will sell me a new laser rifle for a few goats and some cheese that I managed to save up...

Where does he store them? Are you out of your mind? Any advanced society has ways of storing cash and processing it. He certainly won't sell you top military grade weapons for goats and cheese, unless they're ridiculously rare and priceless goats and cheese.

Players want to play characters that are fun, not spend fifteen hours checking over their equipment lists keeping track of their livestock. A cattle drive is a fun campaign element, but it shouldn't be the major source of the PC's income.

[Balabanto]

I would like to see a push to have more non-combat adverturers in the new books. More OCC like the rogue scientist and the operator. I would also like to more skills like Resist Torture(Splicers) That add bonuses over character development rather than all at once.

Noncom's are neat, but in the Rifts setting, if you can't fight back you die. A Baalrog isn't going to listen to your dissertation on Pre Rifts history, he'll just kill you because he can.

This I believe is where alot of the rifts roleplaying has gone away in lue of roll playing. Sure it's fun to play the ultimate of ultimates every now and then, but come on. It should be rare to come across villages with much in the way of MD tech armor/weapons. Every dark corner doesnt have a greater demon of hades hanging around it. Every person shouldnt have MD armor and weapons with 50+ e-clips and a small stockpile of explosives sitting around. Most people will only SEE a few pieces of MD tech in their lives and the only MD monsters they will probably see with any regularity are the ones common to their area.

OK, then how about the random knife in the kidney from the "beggar" on the street? For me even my Scientist/Scholaras and Vagand have SOME MD armor, life ain't always nice ya know.

What the player characters see isn't always what the rest of the world sees. Player characters tend to hang out with people who are capable, like themselves. Do you pay attention to the million farms along the road when you drive places?

[Jason Richards]

As long as we're talking about it, for the record:

1. I think there should be vast gaps in the provided source material, such as the Dark Age. This allows for some mystery, and prevents authors of books like Chaos Earth from drawing direct lines to books like Rifts. It's my opinion that, for example, no important person named Prosek should ever be a character of interest in provided Chaos Earth source material.

2. I actually pitched an Old West BTS book, once upon a time. I think period books for BTS, Heroes, and Nightbane are great ideas, so long as they are limited in scope and not long series of books. A BTS Victorian book, for example, would really just need to include adjustments to the skill list for the time period, some weapons/equipment, a few O.C.C.s, and adventure setup of some kind.

[Todd Yoho]

2. I actually pitched an Old West BTS book, once upon a time. I think period books for BTS, Heroes, and Nightbane are great ideas, so long as they are limited in scope and not long series of books. A BTS Victorian book, for example, would really just need to include adjustments to the skill list for the time period, some weapons/equipment, a few O.C.C.s, and adventure setup of some kind.

That's the kind of stuff I really wanted to sink my teeth into. Weird War, Victoriana, and prehistoric. I had a lot of work assembled on a prehistoric BTS/HU setting called the Chaolithic that built on my stuff for BTS2 Arcanum. 64 pages and they would be out the door with everything you need after the base book.

[Balabanto]

I read the thread and can't help but think that MMOs have really changed gamers.

Is it really being suggested that source material for an entire continent should be limited to one or two storylines? Any "major storyline" in North America will exclude the vast majority of the continent's population from consideration. Player characters in Mexico have probably never even heard of the Coalition States; for that matter, they probably don't know that in most of the world vampires don't even exist in any sort of numbers. That's just one example.

Likewise, it really being suggested that in an entire continent it should be cut down to two factions? When are their ever only two factions in anything?

Things in Rifts have actually moved forward quite a bit on all fronts. In game time it's only been around 10 years.

Jason, I think you underestimate the technology available in Rifts Earth and the uses to which it's put. I think it may be an oversight on your part to suggest that PC's in Mexico have little to no idea of the existence of the CS. I'm hardly the biggest fan of the CS, but to argue that PC's aren't aware of the CS in Mexico when groups like the Megaversal Legion have offices in Merctown seems a little over the top to me. Keep a sliding scale in mind.

I would argue that basic information like awareness of the CS is easy. Tactical information or knowledge of specific information is hard. Knowing that the CS is ruled by an Emperor is easy. Knowing that the Emperor of the CS is Karl Prosek would be medium, and the positions of all the members of his family in the CS would be difficult. Knowing what a Super SAMAS does and the ranges of it's weapons? Nigh-impossible without the right set of skills.

I agree with you about the number of the storylines, but Dunia, I feel, does have the right of the argument about the arbitrariness of some of them. A lot of people read what Kevin writes and think "What the heck? This couldn't possibly have happened. Look at X, Y, and Z, which are all written down. How did A occur?" I don't think that Dunia is looking for a magic ring of Sauron here. I think she's just looking for some consistency which she feels hasn't been provided.

This gets into a sticky debate about OOC vs. IC knowledge, and who knows what, and it's very tricky to maintain that balance.

[GaredBattlespike]

Here is My Opinion:

First: Rifts 2.0. RUE was a good move, but it wasn't enough. Some major improvements are still necessary.

Second: Rifts Earth 2.0. A complete revision of the entire campaign universe, all portions, from CS, to Sol system, to the Three Galaxies. -Snip-
It would include professionally designed high-quality maps (such as Campaign Cartographer can output).
-snip-
The major books would be in hard back. All milieu material, from fluff-text to vehicle stats (especially MDC and weapon damage) would be thoroughly reviewed, unified, and leveled (made consistent) across the entire milieu.

Very important to me:

1) Keep the numbers of populations and troop counts down, down, down on Rift's Earth. Do not escalate this, please. This needs to be a struggling post-apocalyptic world, not a world of nations that deploy armies with huge numbers of troops, massive numbers of robots and mecha, and air fleets that fill the sky.
-snip- Not a bad idea. -snip-

2) The titanic profusion of classes must stop. New OCCs/RCCs are tossed about like candy. It is the center-piece of why I have stopped playing Rifts. Every player just must play that one obscure little OCC/RCC seen in a Rifter somewhere that the GM knows nothing about and doesn't fit into the game anyway. It is maddening because there are scores of them (possibly hundreds now). It is totally disruptive to game and campaign development.
-snip-
D&D 3.0/3.5 suffered the same issue with the immense profusion of Prestige Classes.

3) The magic system mechanics would be revised, expanded, and more thoroughly explained, and the same goes for psionics.
-snip-
Again, it should be clear from the know mechanics and rationales of the system. This goes for many other aspects, from how to regenerate, store, and move PPE in ALL cases, to how to develop new spells, etc.

Not Important to me:

1) Continuation of the storylines. I could care less. Just give me the known basic existing storylines. I will use or ignore them at will anyway. I do not need temporal advancement. I need unification and consistency of existing milieu material.

Books:

Rifts Main Book: Classes, races, game mechanics, equipment, magic, psionics, weapons, vehicles, etc. The basic book on the game itself. I would put no world material in it. I personally would divorce classes from milieu specifics as noted above. I would personally like to see entirely new multi-classing rules.
-snip- I Disagree and preffer a moderate/heavy amount of "world material" and definately keep appropriate class/milieu integrity! -snip-

Rifts: Gear: A new full compilation of gear.

Rifts: Magic: A new full compilation of magic and psionics. Full WORKING developmental rules for enchanting items, developing spells, etc.

Rifts: North America: Concentrates on a broad overview of North America. (A large book)

Further continent books, each a large book.

Detail books for areas on continents, moderate sized each. Because there are many continents and sub-areas, this is a rich area for publication.

Campaign/Adventure books. A redesign and unification of the Tolkeen and Xiticix conflicts, etc.

---------------

Benefits: PB gets to sell a whole slew of new books. Players get to buy new products. Yeah, it costs money, but with maybe one or two exceptions, PB has not renewed its product line in about twenty years. While the WotC's/White Wolf's tendency to renew their product lines every three to five years is terrible, every twenty years is acceptable to me.

____________________________
I agree with most of this post.
I agree, quite strongly that a seriously cleaned-up set of Rules (as outlined above) in a firm, non-contradictory presentation, is something that I am willing to spend $40-50 on.

There is such confusion as to what each OCC/RCC/PCC or a Spell/Power/Psi Ability or a item of Gear/Armor/Weapon/Vehicle can/cannot do (Especially with/to each other) that it IS a headache for the GM to take time from telling the tale, just to try to deal with the confusion(Dragons can/cannot Teleport into a fighter's cockpit even if Shapeshifted into a housecat in an effort to fit...)!

No more flipping through five Main Books to find an obscure Saving throw catagory(Like Disease or Pain) would be a Kev-aaahhhh I mean Heaven sent blessing!

A truely Megaversal Damage Value System would be invaluable: A Spell like Firebolt does 5D6 SDC on Palladium World,6D6 SDC on Dark Day Earth and 4D6 MDC on Rifts and Phase World. My solution is to simply state this in the basic Spell Description. Maybe simplify so it has just 2 Settings: SDC/MDC. Period. All armor should have an AR. Especially Partial Coverage types(Juicer Assassin + Dog Boy)!

Thank You, GaredBattlespike