Burster Player wants more power

[Dustin Fireblade]

Might want to look at the Hero's Unlimited powers of Alter Physical Structure: Fire/Plasma and Control Elemental Force: Fire for some idea's. Maybe swap some abilities or allow the character to somehow gain it as a new power.

I don't see a problem to allow the character to pump more ISP into the firebolt for increased damage.

At the very least, I would allow the character to add his ME bonus to be added as a bonus to strike or damage.

[The Beast]

Offer him a witch's pact.

[Danger]

Make him a Demi-God.

[jaymz]

Easiest fix for me and which is what i do for any bursters in my game is give him all of the abilities of the psionic power of pyrokinesis. It would make sense (and to be honest i really do not know why they don't get it) and gives them more firepower (6d6 fireballs). Alternatively you could just let them add super fuel flame to thier powers as just an isp cost add on and not needing any actions.

Personally i go the pyrokinesis route and allow them to increase damage with the burnign of extra isp (double isp is double damge) without costing extra actions) but I also don't let burstsers get any other powers at higher levels (the point being they are bursters, not telekinetics, telepaths etc etc) I do similar things with the other "burster" classes like the Zapper from psyscape, the freezer, teh soaker, the blaster, the tk master, the combat master, the master telepath, and mind controller (can't remeber what they call hiim) all of which are from teh rifter. They get they main powers which are plenty powerful enough for the most part and not let thme gain additional powers unless said powers are relted to the primary power (empathy, clairvoyance etc for telepaths, tk force field etc for TK masters and so on and so on)

[SkyeFyre]

If it were my game, I'd put the players into a situation where the PA pilots couldn't use their PAs and emphasize on the fact that the Burster is never unarmed. Small spaces where they would need to take their armor off, within city limits... took too much damage and now their suit is screwed up... just a few things.

Create enemies that are impervious to regular attacks but weak against psionics and/or magic. Or even just resistant to regular attacks. Sometimes the best way to make a character feel unique and as an important part of the party isn't how much damage they can do, but how they deal that damage, or what other roles they can fulfill. All of a sudden those PAs are doing between 5-30 MDC whereas the Burster is now doing like 8-48. Tadah! Even footing.

Have an enemy tear out an ammo belt from one of the PA, all of a sudden that pilot's got no ammo to shoot with.

Oh! or make the target of a particular quest, or encounter at or near a leyline nexus... or just leyline... either/or. Tadah your burster not only gets a damage boost, an MDC boost, but his ISP is going to be regenerating quite a bit faster.

There are loads of ways to make your Burster feel more powerful and useful than just upping his damage. He cannot be disarmed, has many other useful abilities, can recharge his MDC simply by erecting a new fire aura, and in addition if he took the skills could learn to use high tech weapons in addition to his natural abilities. I think the Burster is plenty potent as it is.

[DtMK]

Super Fuel Flame is the most potentially devastating power a Buster has! Expanding the size, intensity and DAMAGE of fire powers by ten times? The boy's sitting on being the most powerful character and he doesn't realize it. I say allow him to use super fuel flame AND their fire powers in the same attack, but let it count as a power punch, eating up two attacks/actions that round.

Also if he wants a really fun toy, the Napalm-P Plasma Flamethrower from Juicer Uprising is a must-have!

[jaymz]

Super Fuel Flame is the most potentially devastating power a Buster has! Expanding the size, intensity and DAMAGE of fire powers by ten times? The boy's sitting on being the most powerful character and he doesn't realize it. I say allow him to use super fuel flame AND their fire powers in the same attack, but let it count as a power punch, eating up two attacks/actions that round.

Also if he wants a really fun toy, the Napalm-P Plasma Flamethrower from Juicer Uprising is a must-have!

Or the plasma suit from Atlantis. Use superfuel flame on that badboy.

That's just scary.....

[Balabanto]

He has enough ISP to power a Techno Wizard's fantasy machine. He can use that stuff. Just remind him. TW Fireball rifle with a bunch of PPE clips and Super Fuel Flame=Stupid. 18d6+bonus damage, which I can't remember off the top of my head.If that doesn't make people cry, nothing will.

[runebeo]

Have the burster train in Psyscape and bend the rule a little allowing his fire bolts to have double range, double damage for half the I.S.P. cost. This is the type of power a Burster should have in the first place.

[SkyeFyre]

If it were my game, I'd put the players into a situation where the PA pilots couldn't use their PAs and emphasize on the fact that the Burster is never unarmed. Small spaces where they would need to take their armor off, within city limits... took too much damage and now their suit is screwed up... just a few things.

Create enemies that are impervious to regular attacks but weak against psionics and/or magic. Or even just resistant to regular attacks. Sometimes the best way to make a character feel unique and as an important part of the party isn't how much damage they can do, but how they deal that damage, or what other roles they can fulfill. All of a sudden those PAs are doing between 5-30 MDC whereas the Burster is now doing like 8-48. Tadah! Even footing.

Have an enemy tear out an ammo belt from one of the PA, all of a sudden that pilot's got no ammo to shoot with.

Oh! or make the target of a particular quest, or encounter at or near a leyline nexus... or just leyline... either/or. Tadah your burster not only gets a damage boost, an MDC boost, but his ISP is going to be regenerating quite a bit faster.

There are loads of ways to make your Burster feel more powerful and useful than just upping his damage. He cannot be disarmed, has many other useful abilities, can recharge his MDC simply by erecting a new fire aura, and in addition if he took the skills could learn to use high tech weapons in addition to his natural abilities. I think the Burster is plenty potent as it is.

All of those can be good ideas to make players stretch their RP muscles, but I think he is looking for a very long term solution.

The danger of handling things that way is that you are stripping the others of their abilities. It can easily feel like the GM is playing favorites and deliberately changing things to favor one character. Also smart players can find way around things a lot of times. The other players want to play PA pilots, if you take away their PA all the time then they aren't being allowed to play their characters. When it's something like this where one and only one player is the odd man out, then bringing him up to the others level at least a little bit can be a better long term solution.

But don't hesitate to take SkyeFyre's ideas from time to time. Making the players get creative sometimes is a good plan.

Also please let us know what you eventually decide to do. I'm curious how you do handle it and how it works out.

Yeah, agreed. Sorry, in my game I have all sorts of power levels and types of characters so there's always a heavy focus on RPing and when a fight comes up there's usually one character that shines a little brighter than the others because of the types of encounters I come up with.

[Incriptus]

I bet you the other party members wish they could do 2d6 MD when they were unarmed . . . but anyways

I would give him the 6d6 fireball from Pyrokenesis. I would lift the restriction on opening a column of flame on a person. Now I do think 6d6 is damn fine damage for an 'unarmed' man. Also is it to late for the character to realise that he really is from Psyscape . . . doubled 6d6 is great damage. Or you could tell him to get a gun like everyone else! Did you know that Bursters can use any technowizardy device that creates a fire effect for 1/2 the normal about of ISP [aka the normal amount of PPE] . . . Well of course you didn't know that because I just made up that ruling on the spot!

Who's the man with the master plan

[Captain Shiva]

Hey guys, one of my players wants his burster to have more power when it comes to his offensive powers. We're playing a game with mostly power armor pilots and a bit of a higher power level than he. He wants his character to be stronger.

For example.

A Fire Bolt
A 2D6 MD bolt costs 4 ISP.

Fire Eruption
At first level, the most you can have is a 25 foot area that you can't actually place on an enemy and does 4D6 MD or 20 ISP.

So you have a burster running around doing a max of 4D6 with a power that eats up almost a 1/5th of his ISP that requires an enemy dumb enough to run into it and power armor pilots with weapons easily doing a 1D6x10 MD. So now the question is pose is this. How do I even out the playing field so the burster doesn't feel like a wimp?

Could I house rule it and say that he could dump more ISP into his fire bolt and make it more powerful? What do I do?

http://www.users.uswest.net/~bhegr/psionics/psipow.html This site has a power called Kinesis Bolts,which he could use to project more powerful blasts of fire,and has a better duration.

[DtMK]

If you also want to step things up, you could have that character abducted by a Gene-Splicer and have their powers, duration, damage and ISP doubled. Of course, they might get a third arm and half their PB gone, but what price the prize?

[keir451]

If it were my game, I'd put the players into a situation where the PA pilots couldn't use their PAs and emphasize on the fact that the Burster is never unarmed. Small spaces where they would need to take their armor off, within city limits... took too much damage and now their suit is screwed up... just a few things.

Create enemies that are impervious to regular attacks but weak against psionics and/or magic. Or even just resistant to regular attacks. Sometimes the best way to make a character feel unique and as an important part of the party isn't how much damage they can do, but how they deal that damage, or what other roles they can fulfill. All of a sudden those PAs are doing between 5-30 MDC whereas the Burster is now doing like 8-48. Tadah! Even footing.

Have an enemy tear out an ammo belt from one of the PA, all of a sudden that pilot's got no ammo to shoot with.

Oh! or make the target of a particular quest, or encounter at or near a leyline nexus... or just leyline... either/or. Tadah your burster not only gets a damage boost, an MDC boost, but his ISP is going to be regenerating quite a bit faster.

There are loads of ways to make your Burster feel more powerful and useful than just upping his damage. He cannot be disarmed, has many other useful abilities, can recharge his MDC simply by erecting a new fire aura, and in addition if he took the skills could learn to use high tech weapons in addition to his natural abilities. I think the Burster is plenty potent as it is.

All of those can be good ideas to make players stretch their RP muscles, but I think he is looking for a very long term solution.

The danger of handling things that way is that you are stripping the others of their abilities. It can easily feel like the GM is playing favorites and deliberately changing things to favor one character. Also smart players can find way around things a lot of times. The other players want to play PA pilots, if you take away their PA all the time then they aren't being allowed to play their characters. When it's something like this where one and only one player is the odd man out, then bringing him up to the others level at least a little bit can be a better long term solution.

But don't hesitate to take SkyeFyre's ideas from time to time. Making the players get creative sometimes is a good plan.

Also please let us know what you eventually decide to do. I'm curious how you do handle it and how it works out.

I'm one of the players in Squiz' game and I agree that putting us in situations where we can't use our power armor is good, but three of us are Mercenaries Special forces OCC's and the third is the Bounty Hunter OCC w/ a tank, even outside of vehicles and power armour we are still a force to be reckoned with. A burster doing the max of 6d6 MD from Firebolt can still cause a lot of damage and pumping extra ISP into it can really make it nasty! I also agree w/ getting him to use his RP muscles more, even a burster can wear armour or power armor, he'd just need to break the enviromental seal to use his powers. If he gets a new weapon or ability he should earn it, not just have it bestowed upon him because of GM fiat (no offense Squiz). Having him be randomly altered by a Gene Splicer for no other reason than to make him more powerful is getting into the realms of the Munchkin.

[Mack]

Let him find a "custom version" of the TW Hellfire Shotgun (New West p217, or BoM p325). It does 6D6 MD on a normal blast, and there's a few "upgrades" you could allow:
--Allow it to fire both barrells at the same time, result is 12D6 MD.
--Allow him to "overcharge" it with via Fuel Flame. I would not "times 10" the damage, but maybe something like 1D6x10 MD per blast and double the range.
--Increase the payload as appropriate...

Same approach would also work with a Firebolt Pistol or TW Flaming Sword. Also, maybe toss him a TW suit of armor with the appropriate movement and protection spells so he's not left behind by the rest of the party.

In other words, there's a variety of TW equipment that could work well with a few adjustments.

EDIT - but don't just hand him any of these items. Make them a reward for something. Set it up so that they are a prized possession.

[Anthar]

Iv'e used these before. Super fuel flame to increase the damage of the fire bolt and fire eruption by 10X with no additional actions needed, and switch the strike of the fire eruption to the standard strike roll with a +2 bonus to strike. I usually role play the character having to learn how to combine these powers usually between 4th to 7th levels and ussually has to seek out a burster that already knows how to do it.

[Balabanto]

True, Mack. TW items are another big advantage psychics have over power armor pilots. Not only do they have the I.S.P. to use powerful items that require an input of I.S.P., but they can recharge TW items themselves. It's like carrying a gun you can recharge with your mind.

Hey, didn't I say the same thing earlier?

I can magically transform into chopped liver if you like. (Ew)

[Shark_Force]

also, it's worth noting that power armor (really, just about any sort of mundane armor) is like a giant gaping hole that sucks all your money into repairs for it. if you get shot for 5 points of damage, that wasn't just 5 points of damage... that was several thousand credits that come right out of your pocket! *if* you can even get to a place that offers repairs. the burster never has to sneak a damaged SAMAS past dog boy patrols to get to the one shop in the 'burbs that offers repairs on the suit, and then hope the dead boys/dog boys don't show up while he's waiting for the suit to be patched, for example.

[keir451]

also, it's worth noting that power armor (really, just about any sort of mundane armor) is like a giant gaping hole that sucks all your money into repairs for it. if you get shot for 5 points of damage, that wasn't just 5 points of damage... that was several thousand credits that come right out of your pocket! *if* you can even get to a place that offers repairs. the burster never has to sneak a damaged SAMAS past dog boy patrols to get to the one shop in the 'burbs that offers repairs on the suit, and then hope the dead boys/dog boys don't show up while he's waiting for the suit to be patched, for example.

That is all too true, which is why my character has Mech. Engineer, Elect. Eng., Robot Mech., Robot Electr., Weapons Eng. He's the repairman of the crew. Our highest level PC has the same skill set but she's Lvl 6 so fixing PA is going to be a matter of time and materials, 'course she's likely to charge us an arm and a leg (possibly literally! ).

[Shark_Force]

but then, being unable to wear power armor may not be particularly arbitrary either. nor is it particularly arbitrary for enemies to want to disable the power armor without damaging it (it does, after all, represent a lot more cash for them if they can capture the suit relatively undamaged, though of course that is dependant on them being capable of doing that without getting killed from pulling their punches, so to speak).

certainly, if the pilot can find a way to get his suit somewhere or defend against the gun being taken out, he should keep it; however, there are legitimate situations where the power armor pilot won't be able to bring his power armor along.

[Kagashi]

If its a power armor game...id make him play a power armor character. Bursters just dont fit in with that type of environment. I wouldnt expect the Glitter Boy Pilot to fit in with a campaign where the characters needed to sneak into a community where weapons and armor are banned and set fire to a building...where a Burster would excel...

If you dont want to go that route and allow him to keep playing the character, you have two choices. 1) as GM, you must keep your "customers" (players) entertained...so come up with a story that he can be involved in. and 2) tell him to suck it up and keep playing the Burster in a Power Armor campaign. He will just have to know he will not be very effective.

Personally, a mix between 1 and 2 is what I would do.

[Balabanto]

Have a battle in an SAMAS factory. They get to do cool stuff but have to make insane piloting rolls every time something is welded or fused. The Burster just walks wherever he pleases, because he's immune to fire.

Send them to hell! Or the land of elemental fire! WHAT? Yeah. Ammo is a problem. But again, Immune to Fire. The burster lights a cigarette off the flames of hell while everyone else sweats like a dog in their powered armor suits.

[ShadowLogan]

Hey guys, one of my players wants his burster to have more power when it comes to his offensive powers. We're playing a game with mostly power armor pilots and a bit of a higher power level than he. He wants his character to be stronger.

For example.

A Fire Bolt
A 2D6 MD bolt costs 4 ISP.

Fire Eruption
At first level, the most you can have is a 25 foot area that you can't actually place on an enemy and does 4D6 MD or 20 ISP.

So you have a burster running around doing a max of 4D6 with a power that eats up almost a 1/5th of his ISP that requires an enemy dumb enough to run into it and power armor pilots with weapons easily doing a 1D6x10 MD. So now the question is pose is this. How do I even out the playing field so the burster doesn't feel like a wimp?

Could I house rule it and say that he could dump more ISP into his fire bolt and make it more powerful? What do I do?

One could take the Firebolt Ability (or other Psi-attacks) as an unstated per level increment (or every few levels, with additional damage being noted). So over time (character levels) its possible for that Firebolt Ability to be more powerful than the technology.

Assuming a per level increase:
1st Level Burster Vs Samas RG damage: 2d6MD vs 1d4x10MD
3rd Level Burster vs Samas RG damage: 6d6MD vs 1d4x10MD
5th Level Burster vs Samas RG damage: 10d6MD vs 1d4x10MD

Also don't forget about the Flame Burst: body protection aura and its regeneration rate. Potentially minimizing cost incurred to repair his/her normal body armor. The PA pilots don't have that option (generally).

While Fire Erruption does not allow one to directly target an individual, there is nothing in the description that necessarily rules out using it on the ground they are above (floating, standing, sitting, etc). Plus if some one has TK (Burster possibly depending on how much concentration it would take overall), they could suspend the target over the Fire Erruption and roast the target for several actions. Add in Super Fuel Flame...

[Wildfire]

here is one thing that my crew did we had a telekinetic and I had a Burster I would create a fire then suoer fuel it, now while I could not make any combat actions or the superfuel field would burn out I sat in the field of fire and the telekinetic tossed the bad guys ingernerally exterminating them before they could get out.

[Dead Boy]

With all the notes on Techno-Wizardry, I'm surprised no one has brought this up (maybe I skimmed over it)...

TW Flaming Sword (4D6MD) + Super Fuel Flame (x10) = Even Glitter Boys cowering in fear, standing in puddles of their own urine.

And that's 100% by the book with no house rules or tweaking needed.

[Mack]

With all the notes on Techno-Wizardry, I'm surprised no one has brought this up (maybe I skimmed over it)...

TW Flaming Sword (4D6MD) + Super Fuel Flame (x10) = Even Glitter Boys cowering in fear, standing in puddles of their own urine.

And that's 100% by the book with no house rules or tweaking needed.

Personally, I don't apply the SFF x10 to MD flames. The flavor of the SFF descriptions says that it increases the size of normal fires... not that it increases the damage. In short, SFF spreads a fire.

[Danger]

Psychic RCCs are already a little under-powered when it comes to the things they are supposed to focus on, especially the burster. But psychic powers as a whole really, where magic users have gotten a lot of attention, have remained rather lame in their ability to inflict damage.

I've always considered Psionics on the whole to be rather weak.

[Dead Boy]

With all the notes on Techno-Wizardry, I'm surprised no one has brought this up (maybe I skimmed over it)...

TW Flaming Sword (4D6MD) + Super Fuel Flame (x10) = Even Glitter Boys cowering in fear, standing in puddles of their own urine.

And that's 100% by the book with no house rules or tweaking needed.

Personally, I don't apply the SFF x10 to MD flames. The flavor of the SFF descriptions says that it increases the size of normal fires... not that it increases the damage. In short, SFF spreads a fire.

"Damage: Increased proportional to the size of the flames." (RUE pg 141)

I think it says exactly what I'm inferring.

Logically speaking, this would also increase the intensity of the flames too by mechanical necessity. For instance, if your character were standing in a 2D6MD pillar of fire with a three-foot width (about a 7-foot area), his body is consumed in flames. If the Burster were then to use SFF and make it 9.5-feet wide (about a 70-foot area, 10x larger), the character's body would not be even more so in fire because technically that original 3-foot column was enough to completely engulf him in the first place. But by the mechanics, that 2D6MD has now become 2D6x10MD. The fire's coverage of the character's body remains the same, so the only logical explanation for the added damage would have to be a proportional increase in intensity as well.

So, as to how this works with the TW Flaming Sword, the sword itself becomes 10-times larger in overall volume, going from a standard sword's size to something huge like that Tetsaiga thing form Inuasha or that huge chopper Cloud had in Final Fantasy 7. And on impact, due to its size and proportional intensity, it would do an ungodly 4D6x10MD on a successful hit.

There, are you happy now, you made me sink to the level of using an Inuasha reference. Now I have to take a shower and wash the shame off my person. Soap reaches the soul, right?

...I'd asked about this on the old Q&A section on this site, could you keep on increading the intensity of a fire until it's doing a lot of damage. The answer was yes, BUT it doesn't work on magic fire they said, only real fire... and I should point out to some people that plasma is NOT fire.

There's a reason why the Q&A is not canon; it's written by people with no more authority or knowledge about the subject than you or I, the answer itself could be very different if the same question were asked just a month later.

So firstly, unless there's something in the BOOK that says it doesn't work on supernatural fires, then there's nothing that says it doesn't. Secondly, given that the Burster's ability to make fire MD at all makes it supernatural, meaning that if the Q&A answer were to be strictly obeyed, then the Burster couldn't have any meaningful effect on his onw supernatural fires, and that would be categorical BS if it were true.

As for the nature of fire itself, flames are a short-lived plasma. "Fire is the rapid oxidation of a combustible material releasing heat, light, and various reaction products such as carbon dioxide and water. If hot enough, the gases may become ionized to produce plasma." (emphasis added)

Ergo, if a Burster can control fire, and if fire is plasma, then a Burster can also affect plasma.

[Dead Boy]

Keir, don't read

Spoiler:

I intend to have the party go up against a fire elemental. They'll discover that as they're fighting him, he's extremely tough. This is in part to that fact that he has his own Sun Amulet that amps up his powers. He's acquired this from his own dimension, it's not necessarily Rifts based, so I have room to work with the actual abilities and bonus to power it gives.

Ah, behold the power of loot,

[Mack]

With all the notes on Techno-Wizardry, I'm surprised no one has brought this up (maybe I skimmed over it)...

TW Flaming Sword (4D6MD) + Super Fuel Flame (x10) = Even Glitter Boys cowering in fear, standing in puddles of their own urine.

And that's 100% by the book with no house rules or tweaking needed.

Personally, I don't apply the SFF x10 to MD flames. The flavor of the SFF descriptions says that it increases the size of normal fires... not that it increases the damage. In short, SFF spreads a fire.

"Damage: Increased proportional to the size of the flames." (RUE pg 141)

I think it says exactly what I'm inferring.

Come on, DB. Quote the whole thing: "Damage: Increased proportional to the size of the flames; G.M. discretion."

I understand and acknowledge your interpretation. I just don't agree with it.

[The Galactus Kid]

Always remember that the burster is the master of AOE damage over time. Pin a group of troops down with supressive fire, and then let the burster open up on them.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

I've always considered Psionics on the whole to be rather weak.

*twitch*

Especially since the save vs psionics is static.

*double twitch*

A lot of people will say well a psychics power comes from their wider range of abilities, but that's not a burster that's a mindmelter or similar.

*triple twitch*

What's needed is a revamp on all psychics like the cyber-knight and many of the magic occs received

*violent convulsions*

Sorry, I'm lying in a puddle of my own bile right now. Anyone care to shoot down these misconceptions while I wait for the ambulance?

no, i wish to reinforce the conceptions, but not here, and not now. Soon.

[Shark_Force]

I've always considered Psionics on the whole to be rather weak.

*twitch*

Especially since the save vs psionics is static.

*double twitch*

A lot of people will say well a psychics power comes from their wider range of abilities, but that's not a burster that's a mindmelter or similar.

*triple twitch*

What's needed is a revamp on all psychics like the cyber-knight and many of the magic occs received

*violent convulsions*

Sorry, I'm lying in a puddle of my own bile right now. Anyone care to shoot down these misconceptions while I wait for the ambulance?

best i can do is offer this: damage is not typically the most powerful thing in rifts. psionics has all kinds of goodies that are very powerful, it just isn't very good for direct damage. conveniently, there are devices which *are* quite good at direct damage which can be used by pretty much anyone who cares to do so; they are called "weapons".

the most powerful psionic powers are not the ones that deal damage, they are powers like object read, sixth sense, telemechanics & co, bio-manipulation, presence sense, hypnotic suggestion, and even abilities like telekinesis or ectoplasm (being able to manipulate stuff from far away or inside other objects - mechanoids indicates this is possible - is pretty handy). this is especially true when you remember that psionics does not reveal the one who uses them. there is no sign that you have activated a psionic power (though there may very well be a sign that *someone* has activated a psionic power, they cannot tell if it's you without using some sort of special ability).

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

.I'd asked about this on the old Q&A section on this site, could you keep on increading the intensity of a fire until it's doing a lot of damage. The answer was yes, BUT it doesn't work on magic fire they said, only real fire... and I should point out to some people that plasma is NOT fire.

this was said in order to prevent rampant munchkinism.

[jaymz]

Personally I want to play a TK Master from the Rifter. Put my aura, walk up to a glitterboy,put my hand out palm towards him in defiance and say "I DARE you to shoot me with your pea shooter....." Then I;d pay anythign to see th look on his face as the book gun slugs stop mid air just shot of me and drop to teh ground....

[The Galactus Kid]

The burster is more of a direct damage character and actually gets some other super psionics. The burster is more area of effect type character that can light a fire and do a lot of damage over time. The burster before RUE and psiscape was pretty weak compared to the burster, mainly because of the body field the zapper could create. I think I would like to revisit the burster and give it some level advancement powers or increases beyond what is in the main book, but that will probably be in a rifter somewhere.

[The Galactus Kid]

Personally I want to play a TK Master from the Rifter. Put my aura, walk up to a glitterboy,put my hand out palm towards him in defiance and say "I DARE you to shoot me with your pea shooter....." Then I;d pay anythign to see th look on his face as the book gun slugs stop mid air just shot of me and drop to teh ground....

What Rifter is that in?

[jaymz]

Personally I want to play a TK Master from the Rifter. Put my aura, walk up to a glitterboy,put my hand out palm towards him in defiance and say "I DARE you to shoot me with your pea shooter....." Then I;d pay anythign to see th look on his face as the book gun slugs stop mid air just shot of me and drop to teh ground....

What Rifter is that in?

#25

Also has a Telepath that can break through mind blocks, a combat specialist and the enthraller whihc much more of a mind control specialist. Sort of expands onteh Freezer, Soaker and Blaster from an earlier rifter.

[Elthbert]

My answer as too why you can drop a column on a suit or PA or a robot and not a suit of body armour is innate psionic interferance. The sapiant mind puts off a field which prohibits certian paionic effects from being located on top of them, it is like a permenant interferance field which simply protects them from such an affect. However, since psionic fields do not penentrate Robots and Tanks and such they can have such a effect placed on them. The Sapiant mind directing them cannot protect them because the protective feild cannot penetrate them. Therefore any thing that psionics can penetrate directly is protected from such effects, but those things which protect rom say, mind control, are not protected by the mind of the pilot and can have such an effect placed upon them.


There is my game balance reasoning for you. It applys to all psionic effects withthis kind of restriciton.

[Shark_Force]

as i read the flame column, it doesn't say it can't hit areas with people in them, it says it can't be used on people. (or, to put it another way, i'm interpreting it as: you can't choose to use it to light a person on fire, so that the fire goes with them everywhere they go, but you can use it on an area with one or more people, and if they leave that area they only have to deal with any normal fires that started on their person. at least, until you blow up another area.

[Elthbert]

My answer as too why you can drop a column on a suit or PA or a robot and not a suit of body armour is innate psionic interferance. The sapiant mind puts off a field which prohibits certian paionic effects from being located on top of them, it is like a permenant interferance field which simply protects them from such an affect. However, since psionic fields do not penentrate Robots and Tanks and such they can have such a effect placed on them. The Sapiant mind directing them cannot protect them because the protective feild cannot penetrate them. Therefore any thing that psionics can penetrate directly is protected from such effects, but those things which protect rom say, mind control, are not protected by the mind of the pilot and can have such an effect placed upon them.


There is my game balance reasoning for you. It applys to all psionic effects withthis kind of restriciton.

It's a good one, or at least better then they have given. Only now it raises the question of "Why doesn't it help against other psionic powers?"

It does.... You get a save don't you.

There are just certian powers which it always cancels and others whcih it only helps against. Big area of effect powers are easily disrupted by the feild, more specificly targeted ones can penetrate it and effect you directly but it is always in placve, which is why you get a save, objects don't, nor do primitive creatures ( I assume you don't require the poor burster to avoid rats and bugs too).

Thats just of the top of my head, but it is what I would tell my players if they objected.

[Elthbert]

My answer as too why you can drop a column on a suit or PA or a robot and not a suit of body armour is innate psionic interferance. The sapiant mind puts off a field which prohibits certian paionic effects from being located on top of them, it is like a permenant interferance field which simply protects them from such an affect. However, since psionic fields do not penentrate Robots and Tanks and such they can have such a effect placed on them. The Sapiant mind directing them cannot protect them because the protective feild cannot penetrate them. Therefore any thing that psionics can penetrate directly is protected from such effects, but those things which protect rom say, mind control, are not protected by the mind of the pilot and can have such an effect placed upon them.


There is my game balance reasoning for you. It applys to all psionic effects withthis kind of restriciton.

It's a good one, or at least better then they have given. Only now it raises the question of "Why doesn't it help against other psionic powers?"

It does.... You get a save don't you.

There are just certian powers which it always cancels and others whcih it only helps against. Big area of effect powers are easily disrupted by the feild, more specificly targeted ones can penetrate it and effect you directly but it is always in placve, which is why you get a save, objects don't, nor do primitive creatures ( I assume you don't require the poor burster to avoid rats and bugs too).

Thats just of the top of my head, but it is what I would tell my players if they objected.

That does make some sense. I just with the author had put that much thought into it. Things like this can lead to very interesting implications for the rest of the system/setting.

Thank you.

[Elthbert]

That is a nice explanation, but it makes little sense games mechanics wise. If this pseudo mental field denies certain effects with a save option, why isn't there a save/dodge option for the column of flame instead of just a no you can't do it response?

I answered that first. It interfers with certian effects more than others. You simply can't manefest it around a sapiant or psionicly strong creature (like a dog, which isn't really sapiant) the feild simply will not allow it. Some effects are able to penetrate it, but not always, which is why savingthrows exist.

[Danger]

Make the Burster a Scrapers Human.

Give him Super Powers.

Watch the Power Armor pilots cry.

Done.

[Dead Boy]

As for the nature of fire itself, flames are a short-lived plasma. "Fire is the rapid oxidation of a combustible material releasing heat, light, and various reaction products such as carbon dioxide and water. If hot enough, the gases may become ionized to produce plasma." (emphasis added)

Ergo, if a Burster can control fire, and if fire is plasma, then a Burster can also affect plasma.

Flames are an incandescent gas produced by the reaction, absolutely in no way close to a plasma. Simply because some plasmas exist only at high temperature doesn't mean that a hot gas is a plasma. In fact most hot plasmas exist as plasma only at rediculously hot temperatures, ...

And what do you think Mega Damage fire is, if not "ridiculously hot"?

You could get away with arguing that Magic Fire is no hotter than normal, doing extra damage due to its magic nature. But Psychic fueled fire is less supernatural and more what I would call preternatural (close, but not the same thing). The laws of physics apply, though there are a few missing/unknown linkages in the cause & effect.

as i read the flame column, it doesn't say it can't hit areas with people in them, it says it can't be used on people. (or, to put it another way, i'm interpreting it as: you can't choose to use it to light a person on fire, so that the fire goes with them everywhere they go, but you can use it on an area with one or more people, and if they leave that area they only have to deal with any normal fires that started on their person. at least, until you blow up another area.

I say it doesn't matter all that much. All this really does is add an extra action to the character's plan of attack, and one that isn't all that bad. A Burster can simply drop a 6D6MD column of fire right in the middle of a group of attackers (or their largest grouping is somewhat scattered). Most would take this as a "miss" and keep fighting. On the Burster's next attack, Super Fuel Flame it to expand the diameter so the column not only engulfs them, but exposes them to a 6D6x10MD blast oven. And even if they didn't stay put and try to move out the the way, most characters can't move that far in a single meleee action to escape the blast radius, and will just die tired. The power says it can't be put on someone, it does not say it can't wash over them by adding a little SFF to the mix.

And if by chance the Burster has more melee attacks than the opposition, then this fiery one-two punch could be done at the end of the melee round when they are out of attacks and cannot run out of the way.

[Dead Boy]

As for the nature of fire itself, flames are a short-lived plasma. "Fire is the rapid oxidation of a combustible material releasing heat, light, and various reaction products such as carbon dioxide and water. If hot enough, the gases may become ionized to produce plasma." (emphasis added)

Ergo, if a Burster can control fire, and if fire is plasma, then a Burster can also affect plasma.

Flames are an incandescent gas produced by the reaction, absolutely in no way close to a plasma. Simply because some plasmas exist only at high temperature doesn't mean that a hot gas is a plasma. In fact most hot plasmas exist as plasma only at rediculously hot temperatures, ...

And what do you think Mega Damage fire is, if not "ridiculously hot"?

You could get away with arguing that Magic Fire is no hotter than normal, doing extra damage due to its magic nature. But Psychic fueled fire is less supernatural and more what I would call preternatural (close, but not the same thing). The laws of physics apply, though there are a few missing/unknown linkages in the cause & effect.

You however, cut out the part where I made the point that being ridiculously hot does not make something a plasma. Again, super-heated steam is hot. Some plasmas exist at the same temperature. They both burn. Steam is not a plasma just because it is hot. Neither is a super-heated piece of metal just because it's hot. Heat has nothing to do with plasma.

If you want, you could argue that it's heat that a burster is immune to and that would make sense, but would also mean that he is immune to plasma, steam, hot metals, etc. But he controls fire, and fire is a very specific thing which is completely different from fire.

Fire and plasma are two completely different things, as different as oil and water. Just because they share some physical characteristics like both being liquid does not make them the same thing. This should not even even be an argument, these are like fundamental concepts of the universe. And it's not a matter of fiction vs non-fiction, this is like saying water and rock are the same thing.

Wow, that is one of the most transparent strawman arguments I've ever read. Firstly, we're not talking about "steam"... nor are we talking about superheated metals. We're talking about fire. And fire, especially hot enough to do mega-damage, would have to be a plasma. And should the metal be heated beyond its combustion point and then be stoked to even higher temperatures to warrant calling it mega-damage, then it too would be excited into a plasma state in the process. That's what science says, that's what the books infer, and it's a rare day when those two sources agree like this. Secondly, I think you're seriously overlooking the fact that we're not talking about just any fire, but mega-damage fire. A kind of fire, by its very definition, inflicts a hundred times as much damage through the amount of heat it produces. It is impossible for a flame to be that intense and not be a plasma. So while your typical camp fire (roughly 4D6 SDC) might burn at Fahrenheit 451, MD fire would be at the very lest ten times hotter, if not a hundred, blazing away at 4,510 degrees, maybe even 45,100! At temperatures that high, I'd bet even water steam would become a hydrogen plasma.

[Mack]

Alright gents. Let's leave the physics discussion behind us and return to Rifts... such as could a Burster make his flame aura hot enough with Super Fuel Flame to burn himself?

[jaymz]

Alright gents. Let's leave the physics discussion behind us and return to Rifts... such as could a Burster make his flame aura hot enough with Super Fuel Flame to burn himself?

Wellcould Human Torch Hurt Himself with his nova burst? If not then i don't think the burstsr coudl hurt himself either.

I myself do allow super fuel flame to increase the damage because it deos say size and intensity thus intensity could be argued as damage...

[Dead Boy]

Alright gents. Let's leave the physics discussion behind us and return to Rifts... such as could a Burster make his flame aura hot enough with Super Fuel Flame to burn himself?

Answer: Nope. That would negate the Burster's immunity to damage from heat and fire (which lumps plasma in with dragon's fire and napalm, by the way).

Does it say size and intensity? Because that was a point of argument earlier I believe, some one said that it only said size I think? IDK, I'm too lazy at this point to re-read everything. But I'd agree with that, because intensity is just a measure of the energy flux, basically in this case that translates into damage capability.

The ability specifically states that it is only size. It mentions that by GM ruling only it can increase the damage.

milomilo, are you now claiming that you are the sole GM for everyone here on the boards, and that if you would personally rule one way on a GM's prerogative, so must we all? If not, x10 size equals x10 damage and intensity for all who disagree with you, myself included.

[Dead Boy]

The ability specifically states that it is only size. It mentions that by GM ruling only it can increase the damage.

milomilo, are you now claiming that you are the sole GM for everyone here on the boards, and that if you would personally rule one way on a GM's prerogative, so must we all? If not, x10 size equals x10 damage and intensity for all who disagree with you, myself included.

... I'm not sure what the point of this is other than to start an argument. My point was that if it says intensity then it's hard to argure it doesn't mean damage as well. But if it's the other way, and just says size, then like the book description some have mentioned, it would be up to the GM. We're talking about what the description says, in fact no where in this entire topic have I ever said it shouldn't be x10 damage as well. At most I said it probably makes sense to say no to magic fire to prevent munchkinism, but beyone that it's not too over-powering so I support the idea.

... so not sure what your point was or where you're comming from with that.

My point is that the passage clearly links the increase in size with an equal increase in damage....

"Damage: increased proportional to the size of the fire; G.M. discretion."

... and increased damage is a function of increased intensity ... and now I see in the posts above that you're now claiming that there is no mention of the word damage in the power's description, (your Jan 1, 2010 23:34 post)? Really? Beyond that irritating (intentional?) flub, you have clearly shown how you think that just because the writer included that "GM's discretion" tag-line, it may as well not exist at all because you, as a GM, would not permit it. Not so, and hence my previous post.

You may not like it, and you may not even permit it at your table, but the x2 to x10 damage adder does indeed exist. And also there is nothing in the text that precludes it from working on some fires and not others (magic).

But if you figure the 2d6md a burster fireball can do, x10 that would be 2d6x10 for 12 isp... with the average ISP base a burster has, he could do it maybe 10 times. And that's no more damage than a guy could do with a good quality laser rifle and a couple E-clips.

Now you're just being inconsistent. You have no problems with a 2D6x10 MD ranged attack, but draw the line at a 4D6x10 MD melee attack? You do realize that the character would blow at least half of his attacks just on movement alone to get into striking range with that TW Flaming Sword, right? Plus there is no way for the character to be able to affect airborne targets at all with it. And besides which, by the book, you can't use SFF on a fire that doesn't exist yet, so you wouldn't be able to use it on fireballs since they are conjured and lobbed in the same melee action unless you make a special house rule to the contrary.