Disguising yourself as CS and attacking Quebec

[V-Origin]

Expounding further upon the use of CS armour by non CS-troops.

What happens if Lazlo or New Tolkeen or the Splurgoth put some humanoid soldiers in CS armour and uniform and attack Quebec?

Is this going to drive the wedge between Quebec and CS deeper to the point that they may start outright war?

[sHaka]

I doubt they would be so easily fooled. All it takes is a team of technicians to recover some enemy casualties for the ruse to come to light.

It might create some initial, short-lived confusion for Quebec, but not enough to cause the sort of inter-state incident you're hoping for.

[V-Origin]

I doubt they would be so easily fooled. All it takes is a team of technicians to recover some enemy casualties for the ruse to come to light.

It might create some initial, short-lived confusion for Quebec, but not enough to cause the sort of inter-state incident you're hoping for.

Are you kidding me? So if Quebec uncover some dead human soldiers wearing CS armour, they are not gonna think that CS is attacking them?

It is just like if some muslim guy here in the states start brandishing some gun on the streets. You think the US authorities are not gonna think he is a terrorist?

[Dustin Fireblade]

I doubt they would be so easily fooled. All it takes is a team of technicians to recover some enemy casualties for the ruse to come to light.

It might create some initial, short-lived confusion for Quebec, but not enough to cause the sort of inter-state incident you're hoping for.

Are you kidding me? So if Quebec uncover some dead human soldiers wearing CS armour, they are not gonna think that CS is attacking them?

It is just like if some muslim guy here in the states start brandishing some gun on the streets. You think the US authorities are not gonna think he is a terrorist?

Dressing a person up in CS armor does not make them a CS soldier. Quebec was a long time member of the CS, so they know the tactics that the CS uses.

It's like in Star Wars, when Luke and Ben find the dead jawa's - made it look like the sand people did it but Ben wasn't fooled while Luke was.

[V-Origin]

I doubt they would be so easily fooled. All it takes is a team of technicians to recover some enemy casualties for the ruse to come to light.

It might create some initial, short-lived confusion for Quebec, but not enough to cause the sort of inter-state incident you're hoping for.

Are you kidding me? So if Quebec uncover some dead human soldiers wearing CS armour, they are not gonna think that CS is attacking them?

It is just like if some muslim guy here in the states start brandishing some gun on the streets. You think the US authorities are not gonna think he is a terrorist?

Dressing a person up in CS armor does not make them a CS soldier. Quebec was a long time member of the CS, so they know the tactics that the CS uses.

It's like in Star Wars, when Luke and Ben find the dead jawa's - made it look like the sand people did it but Ben wasn't fooled while Luke was.

But repeated attacks by "CS soldiers" will turn their opinion. Lots of human mercs for hire out there.

"The CS is very angry with the defection of Quebec. Here is 100,000 credits for you and your buddies to join the CS army as freelancers and attack Quebec to show them the CS is still king. Oh yes, free CS armour and weapons for you."

Which merc is gonna turn that down? And even if captured, what are they gonna say? That the CS hire us to attack Quebec? Well, that DID happen, didn't it?

[V-Origin]

I doubt they would be so easily fooled. All it takes is a team of technicians to recover some enemy casualties for the ruse to come to light.

It might create some initial, short-lived confusion for Quebec, but not enough to cause the sort of inter-state incident you're hoping for.

Are you kidding me? So if Quebec uncover some dead human soldiers wearing CS armour, they are not gonna think that CS is attacking them?

It is just like if some muslim guy here in the states start brandishing some gun on the streets. You think the US authorities are not gonna think he is a terrorist?

Dressing a person up in CS armor does not make them a CS soldier. Quebec was a long time member of the CS, so they know the tactics that the CS uses.

It's like in Star Wars, when Luke and Ben find the dead jawa's - made it look like the sand people did it but Ben wasn't fooled while Luke was.

Or how how about this. Kidnap some real CS soldiers, use a Mindolar Mind Slug on them or insert a mindolar slug into their brains thus ensuring control of their actions and plant explosives in their skull and bodies.

Order them to use CS equipment to attack Quebec in a Kamikaze attack. Once they are about to be defeated, order them to activate the explosives inside their skulls and bodies.

No evidence or POWs to interrogate whatsoever.

Quebec will think Prosek has now become senile and power-crazy. LOL.

[jaymz]

I doubt they would be so easily fooled. All it takes is a team of technicians to recover some enemy casualties for the ruse to come to light.

It might create some initial, short-lived confusion for Quebec, but not enough to cause the sort of inter-state incident you're hoping for.

Are you kidding me? So if Quebec uncover some dead human soldiers wearing CS armour, they are not gonna think that CS is attacking them?

It is just like if some muslim guy here in the states start brandishing some gun on the streets. You think the US authorities are not gonna think he is a terrorist?

Dressing a person up in CS armor does not make them a CS soldier. Quebec was a long time member of the CS, so they know the tactics that the CS uses.

It's like in Star Wars, when Luke and Ben find the dead jawa's - made it look like the sand people did it but Ben wasn't fooled while Luke was.

Or how how about this. Kidnap some real CS soldiers, use a Mindolar Mind Slug on them or insert a mindolar slug into their brains thus ensuring control of their actions and plant explosives in their skull and bodies.

Order them to use CS equipment to attack Quebec in a Kamikaze attack. Once they are about to be defeated, order them to activate the explosives inside their skulls and bodies.

No evidence or POWs to interrogate whatsoever.

Quebec will think Prosek has now become senile and power-crazy. LOL.

That might actually work for a while........though I think in the end the ruse WOUDL eventually come tp light.

[The Galactus Kid]

If the troops are supplied with just armor and weapons, I would say not. If they have deaths Head Transports, Mark V's, Linebackers, Skull Walkers, and and using C.S. Tactics led by a know C.S. officer, then Yes, i would say this has a chance of working.

[Gamer]

I doubt they would be so easily fooled. All it takes is a team of technicians to recover some enemy casualties for the ruse to come to light.

It might create some initial, short-lived confusion for Quebec, but not enough to cause the sort of inter-state incident you're hoping for.

Are you kidding me? So if Quebec uncover some dead human soldiers wearing CS armour, they are not gonna think that CS is attacking them?

It is just like if some muslim guy here in the states start brandishing some gun on the streets. You think the US authorities are not gonna think he is a terrorist?

Dressing a person up in CS armor does not make them a CS soldier. Quebec was a long time member of the CS, so they know the tactics that the CS uses.

It's like in Star Wars, when Luke and Ben find the dead jawa's - made it look like the sand people did it but Ben wasn't fooled while Luke was.

Or how how about this. Kidnap some real CS soldiers, use a Mindolar Mind Slug on them or insert a mindolar slug into their brains thus ensuring control of their actions and plant explosives in their skull and bodies.

Order them to use CS equipment to attack Quebec in a Kamikaze attack. Once they are about to be defeated, order them to activate the explosives inside their skulls and bodies.

No evidence or POWs to interrogate whatsoever.

Quebec will think Prosek has now become senile and power-crazy. LOL.

Boy you really are fishing for that ultimate it destroys the CS ploy aren't you
But nope that kidnap ploy will make it even more obvious that it is a set up, the heads all conveniently explode?
You would have to destroy all the heads including the ones killed in action, if you didn't the ploy is still up.
Is Free Quebec made up of Dullards or what?

The CS lost a substantial amount of military gear and hardware in the war with Tolkeen and Free Quebec, so it is not surprising anyone that there are a lot of suits and hardware out there on the black market.
Free Quebec's Intelligence service also knows that the CS is in no shape to be doing any attacking and that it must start rebuilding it's forces or remain weakened and vulnerable to attack itself.
The CS cannot afford to really attack anyone for some time to come, it must rebuild it's forces, your ploys of tricking others into thinking it's a CS attack just won't work for the next couple of years in the timeline, the CS can't afford to attack anyone and everyone around them knows it.

It would take the CS to suddenly acquire a military force that goes beyond the insanity that was presented in the Tolkeen books for even Palladium Books to come up with another CS goes to war metaplot so soon.

[azazel1024]

Yeah unless we are talking about an attack of battalion sized or larger with all the standard CS PA, Robot vehicles and tanks/APCs in tow I think Quebec would probably brush it off as pretenders. Of course even a small one is probably going to have the ambasador asking some tough questions, but it probably wouldn't even raise serious tensions as everyone would likely assume its someone with some stolen CS gear.

Also keep in mind since Quebec was a former member they probably still have all the old personel records, that won't include recent inductees and volunteers, but it will include anyone with more then around 3 years of service, going to be pretty unlikely to find an attack much bigger then a platoon without a single long serving NCO, officer or enlisted personel. If a bunch of people popped up as being listed on the latest rosters that Quebec had at the time of the split, we'll that is likely to raise questions and tensions.

One or two wouldn't, there are deserters all the time. A lot and questions are going to be asked.
-Matt

[Shadow Wyrm]

If you could manage to get a Mind melter to tweek the minds of a active duty platoon, you would have a better chance of pulling off such a scam.

[Shark_Force]

my personal opinion is that it would be much more likely to work if you had a team of CS special forces *not* using CS gear attempt to sneak into someplace important in free quebec and sabotage it. even more likely if they were not CS special forces but merely mercs (again, not using any CS gear, or at least not more than usual amongst merc companies).

i can't imagine anyone is dumb enough to think the CS would start open warfare against FQ with only a battalion there, no supply lines to support it from the CS, and no reinforcements.

or, to put it another way: let's go back in time in our own real world 'setting'. the US government wants to make life for the soviets suck without it being obvious. do they:

a) send in isolated marines to go shoot random people, thereby provoking an international incident for little to no gain.
b) send in a battalion of marines, which will ultimately end up the same as above.
c) give soviet-made weaponry (such as AK-47s) to rebel organisations in the USSR and pretend like it wasn't them.

essentially, when you're trying to pretend it isn't you, the last thing you want to do is make it look like it *is* you. if you want Free Quebec to think the CS is covering something up, you have to make it so that there is no *direct* evidence that the CS is involved, while leaving it hard to believe that they are not. when the US government sends in the marines, it is really really obvious whether or not it was the marines.

[azazel1024]

I certainly agree with your assesments, I'm just saying is that if a battalion sized unit attacked in a relatively surgical strike, a key FQ facility and quickly withdrew it might raise some eyebrows about possible CS involvement.

Your ideas are much more likely, but also since obscured possibly not as likely to raise suspicions. You'd need to do a lot of back work giving hidden, but not to well hidden financial connections to the CS paying the mercs, CS operatives contacting them (but well disquised/removed from the CS), etc. Of course in truth none of this actually is connected to the CS, it is just super well disquised to make it look like a CS attempt at hidding it all.

Your head may hurt in the thought process behind espionage and attempting to pin CS involvement in hurting FQ and starting up another border war.
-Matt

[Lenwen]

Expounding further upon the use of CS armour by non CS-troops.

What happens if Lazlo or New Tolkeen or the Splurgoth put some humanoid soldiers in CS armour and uniform and attack Quebec?

Is this going to drive the wedge between Quebec and CS deeper to the point that they may start outright war?

Well if the Splugorth wanted to .. They actually have merchants that Sell CS weapons, armors an other stuff...

All they would have to do is read the memories of the CS deadboys they have in the slave pens .. implant those memories into another totaly human being .. put that human in the Deadboy armor .. with a deep seeded hatred (which again can be put in the mind) and now do this as many times as it takes ..

Now you have 100% humans ..

100% Coalition Gear ..

100% Coalition men with CS memories ..

100% Hatred of FQ ..

100% full proof way to instigate ..

[Shark_Force]

I certainly agree with your assesments, I'm just saying is that if a battalion sized unit attacked in a relatively surgical strike, a key FQ facility and quickly withdrew it might raise some eyebrows about possible CS involvement.

Your ideas are much more likely, but also since obscured possibly not as likely to raise suspicions. You'd need to do a lot of back work giving hidden, but not to well hidden financial connections to the CS paying the mercs, CS operatives contacting them (but well disquised/removed from the CS), etc. Of course in truth none of this actually is connected to the CS, it is just super well disquised to make it look like a CS attempt at hidding it all.

Your head may hurt in the thought process behind espionage and attempting to pin CS involvement in hurting FQ and starting up another border war.
-Matt

well, yes. getting FQ and the CS to go to war with each other shouldn't be easy after all; if it was, one of their many enemies would have already done it. as Vizzini discovered, starting a war is not as easy as it might sound at first

[jaymz]

well, yes. getting FQ and the CS to go to war with each other shouldn't be easy after all; if it was, one of their many enemies would have already done it. as Vizzini discovered, starting a war is not as easy as it might sound at first

Yes but as Vizzini also posthumously discovered, he isn't all knowing or clever enough to defeat a well prepared enemy

[azazel1024]

I certainly agree with your assesments, I'm just saying is that if a battalion sized unit attacked in a relatively surgical strike, a key FQ facility and quickly withdrew it might raise some eyebrows about possible CS involvement.

Your ideas are much more likely, but also since obscured possibly not as likely to raise suspicions. You'd need to do a lot of back work giving hidden, but not to well hidden financial connections to the CS paying the mercs, CS operatives contacting them (but well disquised/removed from the CS), etc. Of course in truth none of this actually is connected to the CS, it is just super well disquised to make it look like a CS attempt at hidding it all.

Your head may hurt in the thought process behind espionage and attempting to pin CS involvement in hurting FQ and starting up another border war.
-Matt

well, yes. getting FQ and the CS to go to war with each other shouldn't be easy after all; if it was, one of their many enemies would have already done it. as Vizzini discovered, starting a war is not as easy as it might sound at first

Yes it is, have one side insult the other's mother.

War begins, end of story
-Matt

[Lenwen]

Object Read blows all of these plans to hell.

wrong ..

[V-Origin]

Object Read blows all of these plans to hell.

Object Read will even help cover-up the lies created by these non-cs enemies.

Imagine if Lazlo or Tolkeen has some humans dressed up as CS enacting a story around these objects. So what they do is to have some humans dressed as CS, hold/touch these CS equipment and role-play a CS briefing session.

Object read will provide images of events the past. But it does not confirm if these events are real or role-played.

Damn, I am good.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Object Read blows all of these plans to hell.

Object Read will even help cover-up the lies created by these non-cs enemies.

Imagine if Lazlo or Tolkeen has some humans dressed up as CS enacting a story around these objects. So what they do is to have some humans dressed as CS, hold/touch these CS equipment and role-play a CS briefing session.

Object read will provide images of events the past. But it does not confirm if these events are real or role-played.

Damn, I am good.

Not really.

It would be possible to piece together the entire story and the deception behind it using Object Read.

Of course the Quebec spies inside Chi-Town would be the first clue to discover that the attacks are bogus anyway...

[V-Origin]

If you could manage to get a Mind melter to tweek the minds of a active duty platoon, you would have a better chance of pulling off such a scam.

Yes that is one way. Kidnap an active platoon. Mind-wipe that platoon of them being kidnapped. Get some humans dressed as CS officers to give them orders attacking Quebec using Hypnotic Suggestion.

The classic Manchurian Candidate.

[V-Origin]

Object Read blows all of these plans to hell.

Object Read will even help cover-up the lies created by these non-cs enemies.

Imagine if Lazlo or Tolkeen has some humans dressed up as CS enacting a story around these objects. So what they do is to have some humans dressed as CS, hold/touch these CS equipment and role-play a CS briefing session.

Object read will provide images of events the past. But it does not confirm if these events are real or role-played.

Damn, I am good.

Not really.

It would be possible to piece together the entire story and the deception behind it using Object Read.

Of course the Quebec spies inside Chi-Town would be the first clue to discover that the attacks are bogus anyway...

Have you read the Object Read descriptions?

It only provide images of ISOLATED events connected with the objects.

And how are the Quebec spies gonna find everything out?

Say the Coalition does launch a real attack on Quebec which they did before. You think the Quebec spies are gonna find out about every CS attack before it is launched?

Are you saying that the Quebec spies have to find proof of the CS attacking Quebec before they accept it is really the CS attacking Quebec?

That is simply illogical.

[V-Origin]

Expounding further upon the use of CS armour by non CS-troops.

What happens if Lazlo or New Tolkeen or the Splurgoth put some humanoid soldiers in CS armour and uniform and attack Quebec?

Is this going to drive the wedge between Quebec and CS deeper to the point that they may start outright war?

Well if the Splugorth wanted to .. They actually have merchants that Sell CS weapons, armors an other stuff...

All they would have to do is read the memories of the CS deadboys they have in the slave pens .. implant those memories into another totaly human being .. put that human in the Deadboy armor .. with a deep seeded hatred (which again can be put in the mind) and now do this as many times as it takes ..

Now you have 100% humans ..

100% Coalition Gear ..

100% Coalition men with CS memories ..

100% Hatred of FQ ..

100% full proof way to instigate ..

How would you implant the memories into another human being?

[Dustin Fireblade]

Object Read blows all of these plans to hell.

Object Read will even help cover-up the lies created by these non-cs enemies.

Imagine if Lazlo or Tolkeen has some humans dressed up as CS enacting a story around these objects. So what they do is to have some humans dressed as CS, hold/touch these CS equipment and role-play a CS briefing session.

Object read will provide images of events the past. But it does not confirm if these events are real or role-played.

Damn, I am good.

Not really.

It would be possible to piece together the entire story and the deception behind it using Object Read.

Of course the Quebec spies inside Chi-Town would be the first clue to discover that the attacks are bogus anyway...

Have you read the Object Read descriptions?

It only provide images of ISOLATED events connected with the objects.

And how are the Quebec spies gonna find everything out?

Say the Coalition does launch a real attack on Quebec which they did before. You think the Quebec spies are gonna find out about every CS attack before it is launched?

Are you saying that the Quebec spies have to find proof of the CS attacking Quebec before they accept it is really the CS attacking Quebec?

That is kind of a stupid logic.

Yeah I've read the description, multiple times over the last 20 years...

And seriously, do you really believe that Quebec is just going to sit there and NOT have their spies try to uncover what the "CS" plans are?? Especially if there is enough raiding to actually attempt a CS -Quebec war that you seem to suggest?

And you think the CS wouldn't get wind of this either and wonder just what in the heck is going on??

[V-Origin]

Dressing a person up in CS armor does not make them a CS soldier.

Boy you really are fishing for that ultimate it destroys the CS ploy aren't you
But nope that kidnap ploy will make it even more obvious that it is a set up, the heads all conveniently explode?
You would have to destroy all the heads including the ones killed in action, if you didn't the ploy is still up.
Is Free Quebec made up of Dullards or what?

The CS lost a substantial amount of military gear and hardware in the war with Tolkeen and Free Quebec, so it is not surprising anyone that there are a lot of suits and hardware out there on the black market.
Free Quebec's Intelligence service also knows that the CS is in no shape to be doing any attacking and that it must start rebuilding it's forces or remain weakened and vulnerable to attack itself.
The CS cannot afford to really attack anyone for some time to come, it must rebuild it's forces, your ploys of tricking others into thinking it's a CS attack just won't work for the next couple of years in the timeline, the CS can't afford to attack anyone and everyone around them knows it.

It would take the CS to suddenly acquire a military force that goes beyond the insanity that was presented in the Tolkeen books for even Palladium Books to come up with another CS goes to war metaplot so soon.

How would you know the CS doesn't have the capability or motivation to engage in small assaults to destroy Quebec's glitterboys one bot at a time?

It might simply be a case of envy. The CS might not want Quebec to remain un-allied and militarily powerful at the same time.

According to your logic, I should just get a bunch of Lazlo human troops to attack Quebec and dress them in Lazlo colours. That way, Quebec would not think it is Lazlo and simply a bunch of CS commandos dressing up as Lazlo troops.

See how naive your logic "Dressing a person up in CS armor does not make them a CS soldier" is?

[V-Origin]

Object Read blows all of these plans to hell.

Object Read will even help cover-up the lies created by these non-cs enemies.

Imagine if Lazlo or Tolkeen has some humans dressed up as CS enacting a story around these objects. So what they do is to have some humans dressed as CS, hold/touch these CS equipment and role-play a CS briefing session.

Object read will provide images of events the past. But it does not confirm if these events are real or role-played.

Damn, I am good.

Not really.

It would be possible to piece together the entire story and the deception behind it using Object Read.

Of course the Quebec spies inside Chi-Town would be the first clue to discover that the attacks are bogus anyway...

Have you read the Object Read descriptions?

It only provide images of ISOLATED events connected with the objects.

And how are the Quebec spies gonna find everything out?

Say the Coalition does launch a real attack on Quebec which they did before. You think the Quebec spies are gonna find out about every CS attack before it is launched?

Are you saying that the Quebec spies have to find proof of the CS attacking Quebec before they accept it is really the CS attacking Quebec?

That is kind of a stupid logic.

Yeah I've read the description, multiple times over the last 20 years...

And seriously, do you really believe that Quebec is just going to sit there and NOT have their spies try to uncover what the "CS" plans are?? Especially if there is enough raiding to actually attempt a CS -Quebec war that you seem to suggest?

And you think the CS wouldn't get wind of this either and wonder just what in the heck is going on??

So are you saying that the Quebec spies are gonna uncover every plot by the CS?

What plots the spies do not discover does not mean the plots does not exist. Especially given the recent tensions between Quebec and CS.

Besides, the real perpetrators behind the raids wouldn't care if this results in a war between CS and Quebec as long as it keeps tensions high between CS and Quebec.

[V-Origin]

While it has the possibility of creating tensions between the two nations, I don't think it would ever lead to war. Most likely it would lead to joint operations between the two nations to seek out the perpetrators. Even in the last case their will probably be some sort of evidence of a third party. From the bits of the slug inserted in their brains. Or to the interrogation of possible survivors who were disabled before they could detonate. Hell even if you rigged them right, the absurdity of inserting a bunch of explosives into multiple soldiers with overlapping dead-men's switches, would raise flags of someone trying something.

Yes, the CS are trying to find ways of hiding the evidence from their enemies as well. Oh yes, it might the CS trying something.

I find it highly unlikely that Quebec and CS will work together to find out if the CS attacks are really conducted by the CS.

It is like Iraq attacking the US. Would the US and Iraq work together to find out if the culprits behind the 9-11 attacks are really Iraqis, Russians or the US themselves?

[Elthbert]

While it has the possibility of creating tensions between the two nations, I don't think it would ever lead to war. Most likely it would lead to joint operations between the two nations to seek out the perpetrators. Even in the last case their will probably be some sort of evidence of a third party. From the bits of the slug inserted in their brains. Or to the interrogation of possible survivors who were disabled before they could detonate. Hell even if you rigged them right, the absurdity of inserting a bunch of explosives into multiple soldiers with overlapping dead-men's switches, would raise flags of someone trying something.

Yes, the CS are trying to find ways of hiding the evidence from their enemies as well. Oh yes, it might the CS trying something.

I find it highly unlikely that Quebec and CS will work together to find out if the CS attacks are really conducted by the CS.

It is like Iraq attacking the US. Would the US and Iraq work together to find out if the culprits behind the 9-11 attacks are really Iraqis, Russians or the US themselves?

Right!! because that is analgous. Free quebec iand the Coalition really need each other, and they both know it. Rekindiling a war between them sould be virtually impossible. It would be like the USA and the UK going to war in 1940 while still trying to fight of the Nazis'. Humans are still at risk. Nothing short of a major invasion would convince one the other was really attacking.

[V-Origin]

While it has the possibility of creating tensions between the two nations, I don't think it would ever lead to war. Most likely it would lead to joint operations between the two nations to seek out the perpetrators. Even in the last case their will probably be some sort of evidence of a third party. From the bits of the slug inserted in their brains. Or to the interrogation of possible survivors who were disabled before they could detonate. Hell even if you rigged them right, the absurdity of inserting a bunch of explosives into multiple soldiers with overlapping dead-men's switches, would raise flags of someone trying something.

Yes, the CS are trying to find ways of hiding the evidence from their enemies as well. Oh yes, it might the CS trying something.

I find it highly unlikely that Quebec and CS will work together to find out if the CS attacks are really conducted by the CS.

It is like Iraq attacking the US. Would the US and Iraq work together to find out if the culprits behind the 9-11 attacks are really Iraqis, Russians or the US themselves?

Right!! because that is analgous. Free quebec iand the Coalition really need each other, and they both know it. Rekindiling a war between them sould be virtually impossible. It would be like the USA and the UK going to war in 1940 while still trying to fight of the Nazis'. Humans are still at risk. Nothing short of a major invasion would convince one the other was really attacking.

Quebec hates the CS now and the CS is still angry at Quebec defecting. Especially with the thousands of Glitterboys in Quebec's possessions. Each one wants to be the top dog so how is an alliance gonna happen?

If I run it my way, my PCs wouldn't care about what happens between Quebec and CS as long as it keeps tensions high and prevent any roots of any alliance from growing again.

Furthermore, Lazlo/New Tolkeen has a secondary interest in culling the military strength of Quebec, especially the Glitterboys, so this is gonna kill off two birds with one stone.

[Elthbert]

While it has the possibility of creating tensions between the two nations, I don't think it would ever lead to war. Most likely it would lead to joint operations between the two nations to seek out the perpetrators. Even in the last case their will probably be some sort of evidence of a third party. From the bits of the slug inserted in their brains. Or to the interrogation of possible survivors who were disabled before they could detonate. Hell even if you rigged them right, the absurdity of inserting a bunch of explosives into multiple soldiers with overlapping dead-men's switches, would raise flags of someone trying something.

Yes, the CS are trying to find ways of hiding the evidence from their enemies as well. Oh yes, it might the CS trying something.

I find it highly unlikely that Quebec and CS will work together to find out if the CS attacks are really conducted by the CS.

It is like Iraq attacking the US. Would the US and Iraq work together to find out if the culprits behind the 9-11 attacks are really Iraqis, Russians or the US themselves?

Right!! because that is analgous. Free quebec iand the Coalition really need each other, and they both know it. Rekindiling a war between them sould be virtually impossible. It would be like the USA and the UK going to war in 1940 while still trying to fight of the Nazis'. Humans are still at risk. Nothing short of a major invasion would convince one the other was really attacking.

Quebec hates the CS now and the CS is still angry at Quebec defecting. Especially with the thousands of Glitterboys in Quebec's possessions.

If I run it my way, my PCs wouldn't care about what happens between Quebec and CS as long as it keeps tensions high and prevent any roots of any alliance from growing again.

Furthermore, Lazlo/New Tolkeen has a secondary interest in culling the military strength of Quebec, especially the Glitterboys, so this is gonna kill off two birds with one stone.

I don't think I would discribe them as Hating the CS. I mean they did fight side by side with them. And didn't the Emperor formally appologize? Quebec is independent and ready to fight to maintain it, but I don't see there as any real danger of a serious breach of that arangment so long as inhuman enemies are all around them.

I can't see Lazlo ever doing this, nothing could screw them up faster than messing this up and potentially pushing these two powers back together.

[V-Origin]

While it has the possibility of creating tensions between the two nations, I don't think it would ever lead to war. Most likely it would lead to joint operations between the two nations to seek out the perpetrators. Even in the last case their will probably be some sort of evidence of a third party. From the bits of the slug inserted in their brains. Or to the interrogation of possible survivors who were disabled before they could detonate. Hell even if you rigged them right, the absurdity of inserting a bunch of explosives into multiple soldiers with overlapping dead-men's switches, would raise flags of someone trying something.

Yes, the CS are trying to find ways of hiding the evidence from their enemies as well. Oh yes, it might the CS trying something.

I find it highly unlikely that Quebec and CS will work together to find out if the CS attacks are really conducted by the CS.

It is like Iraq attacking the US. Would the US and Iraq work together to find out if the culprits behind the 9-11 attacks are really Iraqis, Russians or the US themselves?

Right!! because that is analgous. Free quebec iand the Coalition really need each other, and they both know it. Rekindiling a war between them sould be virtually impossible. It would be like the USA and the UK going to war in 1940 while still trying to fight of the Nazis'. Humans are still at risk. Nothing short of a major invasion would convince one the other was really attacking.

Quebec hates the CS now and the CS is still angry at Quebec defecting. Especially with the thousands of Glitterboys in Quebec's possessions.

If I run it my way, my PCs wouldn't care about what happens between Quebec and CS as long as it keeps tensions high and prevent any roots of any alliance from growing again.

Furthermore, Lazlo/New Tolkeen has a secondary interest in culling the military strength of Quebec, especially the Glitterboys, so this is gonna kill off two birds with one stone.

I don't think I would discribe them as Hating the CS. I mean they did fight side by side with them. And didn't the Emperor formally appologize? Quebec is independent and ready to fight to maintain it, but I don't see there as any real danger of a serious breach of that arangment so long as inhuman enemies are all around them.

I can't see Lazlo ever doing this, nothing could screw them up faster than messing this up and potentially pushing these two powers back together.

Are you kidding me? A war has already blew up between the two with causalities on both sides and you say Quebec and CS are gonna trust each other?

Quebec and CS are not like the US/UK. They are more like Russia/US against the Iraqis.

This is not like two lovers fighting and then making up to each other in bed, you know.

[V-Origin]

I just discovered a better plot. Hire 100 noro psychics with the ability to conjure up possessing entities.

Kidnap/kill a whole battalion of soldiers (1000 soldiers) and resurrect those that are killed. Remove their memories.

Use the possessing entities to possess these CS soldiers and attack Quebec or anyone else.

Pretty soon, the CS would be fcuked in the ass. Hehehe.

[Elthbert]

Are you kidding me? A war has already blew up between the two with causalities on both sides and you say Quebec and CS are gonna trust each other?

Quebec and CS are not like the US/UK. They are more like Russia/US against the Iraqis.

This is not like two lovers fighting and then making up to each other in bed, you know.

Compared to everyone else in NA they are bed buddies. It is indeed like the UK and the US you know we fought 2 wars agianst the UK, were not real happy about them in the Civil War, and had multiple confrontations with Her in the late 19th century. Including serious talk of war in the Senate. In fact there was a significant group that wanted to side with Germany in WWI ( not WWII) still our alliance with her was not THAT old in 1940, but Nazi Germany was that scary, I mean we even got along with Stalin for it. Do I think that FQ and the CS differances are that serious, compared to say Stalinist Russia and the US in 1940, or even Colonial Britian and the US ... NO I don't. short of a full scall attack I see no chance of this working at all.

[V-Origin]

Are you kidding me? A war has already blew up between the two with causalities on both sides and you say Quebec and CS are gonna trust each other?

Quebec and CS are not like the US/UK. They are more like Russia/US against the Iraqis.

This is not like two lovers fighting and then making up to each other in bed, you know.

Compared to everyone else in NA they are bed buddies. It is indeed like the UK and the US you know we fought 2 wars agianst the UK, were not real happy about them in the Civil War, and had multiple confrontations with Her in the late 19th century. Including serious talk of war in the Senate. In fact there was a significant group that wanted to side with Germany in WWI ( not WWII) still our alliance with her was not THAT old in 1940, but Nazi Germany was that scary, I mean we even got along with Stalin for it. Do I think that FQ and the CS differances are that serious, compared to say Stalinist Russia and the US in 1940, or even Colonial Britian and the US ... NO I don't. short of a full scall attack I see no chance of this working at all.

Hey if you wanna run a game where Quebec sucks up to the CS, why not?

In my game, Quebec sucks up to the NGR and viewed CS as a illegitimate sibling whose spouse (read Iron Heart) is constantly jealous of.

It is like how both Old Tolkeen and The Federation of Magic hates the CS but are they allies? Of course not.

[jaymz]

Are you kidding me? A war has already blew up between the two with causalities on both sides and you say Quebec and CS are gonna trust each other?

Quebec and CS are not like the US/UK. They are more like Russia/US against the Iraqis.

This is not like two lovers fighting and then making up to each other in bed, you know.

Compared to everyone else in NA they are bed buddies. It is indeed like the UK and the US you know we fought 2 wars agianst the UK, were not real happy about them in the Civil War, and had multiple confrontations with Her in the late 19th century. Including serious talk of war in the Senate. In fact there was a significant group that wanted to side with Germany in WWI ( not WWII) still our alliance with her was not THAT old in 1940, but Nazi Germany was that scary, I mean we even got along with Stalin for it. Do I think that FQ and the CS differances are that serious, compared to say Stalinist Russia and the US in 1940, or even Colonial Britian and the US ... NO I don't. short of a full scall attack I see no chance of this working at all.

Hey if you wanna run a game where Quebec sucks up to the CS, why not?

In my game, Quebec sucks up to the NGR and viewed CS as a illegitimate sibling whose spouse (read Iron Heart) is constantly jealous of.

It is like how both Old Tolkeen and The Federation of Magic hates the CS but are they allies? Of course not.

Actually if you guys go back and read up a bit more you'll see FQ just wants to be left alone. They do not inherently hate the CS. Will they ever rejoin the CS, doubtful but over time they could indeed become allies to a degree. Will it happen overnight? No, but I gaurantee that if the FoM attacks the CS and the CS is doing poorly FQ will send support. Then again if FoM attacks CS and CS is doingpoorly Lazlo might even send support to stop the FoM.

Either way, while this tactic of fake CS attacks may raise questions I doubt it woudl ever get far enough to cause a war of any kind.

[sennin]

Hey, in my games FQ and the CS never reconciled and are in more of a cold war state. Several well planned "undercover ops" might be enough to trigger hostilities. Anything larger scale would be too transparent. As said earlier, the FQ spies in Chi Town will quickly debunk any phony border attacks.

[jaymz]

That may be but by what Ihave read in all the books ths far is that they may after some long political discussion (several years) they may end up being allies. Remeber the whole thing FQ went thru with Tolkeen in book 6 of SoT.

[V-Origin]

Hey, in my games FQ and the CS never reconciled and are in more of a cold war state. Several well planned "undercover ops" might be enough to trigger hostilities. Anything larger scale would be too transparent. As said earlier, the FQ spies in Chi Town will quickly debunk any phony border attacks.

You know, not even Prosek himself knows about every little secret military operations in the CS.

Do you think Obama knows about every single clandestine activity by the CIA?

How do you know it is not Iron-heart conducting the raids?

To say that FQ spies will debunk any phony border attacks is really naive.

Let me quote Coalition Wars 7 Aftermath page 62 for you.

"Free Quebec 109 P.A.
The people of Free Quebec were shocked by Prosek's change of heart.
Understandably, the more suspicious-minded leaders suspect treachery buried somewhere beneath the surface.
Others believe that the CS is just biding its time and up to no good.
No Quebecois can bring themselves to believe that Prosek was so moved by Quebec's sacrifices that he has given up on his dream to bring Quebec back into the fold."

Quebec and CS are bed-buddies? I think not.

[Lenwen]

Expounding further upon the use of CS armour by non CS-troops.

What happens if Lazlo or New Tolkeen or the Splurgoth put some humanoid soldiers in CS armour and uniform and attack Quebec?

Is this going to drive the wedge between Quebec and CS deeper to the point that they may start outright war?

Well if the Splugorth wanted to .. They actually have merchants that Sell CS weapons, armors an other stuff...

All they would have to do is read the memories of the CS deadboys they have in the slave pens .. implant those memories into another totaly human being .. put that human in the Deadboy armor .. with a deep seeded hatred (which again can be put in the mind) and now do this as many times as it takes ..

Now you have 100% humans ..

100% Coalition Gear ..

100% Coalition men with CS memories ..

100% Hatred of FQ ..

100% full proof way to instigate ..

How would you implant the memories into another human being?

Mind Bleeders ..

Bleed the memories ..

then simply imput them with ..

Mind Bond ..

TA-DA !!

[V-Origin]

Expounding further upon the use of CS armour by non CS-troops.

What happens if Lazlo or New Tolkeen or the Splurgoth put some humanoid soldiers in CS armour and uniform and attack Quebec?

Is this going to drive the wedge between Quebec and CS deeper to the point that they may start outright war?

Well if the Splugorth wanted to .. They actually have merchants that Sell CS weapons, armors an other stuff...

All they would have to do is read the memories of the CS deadboys they have in the slave pens .. implant those memories into another totaly human being .. put that human in the Deadboy armor .. with a deep seeded hatred (which again can be put in the mind) and now do this as many times as it takes ..

Now you have 100% humans ..

100% Coalition Gear ..

100% Coalition men with CS memories ..

100% Hatred of FQ ..

100% full proof way to instigate ..

How would you implant the memories into another human being?

Mind Bleeders ..

Bleed the memories ..

then simply imput them with ..

Mind Bond ..

TA-DA !!

Bleed memories can only bleed very specific data and not whole scenes of memories so I am not too sure if it is an efficient method.

Mind Bond .. well memories with Mind Bond will disappear after one month.. if any POWs are captured and last more than one month, that would be tricky..

What do you think about using Noro Psychics to conjure up Possessing Entities and possessing CS soldiers who have been brain wiped of them being kidnapped? Any holes in this strategy?

[V-Origin]

I'd say no simply because the psychics they have in use. They'd probably pick up the ill intentions and stop it.

I just realized that there are no psychics or dogboys in the Quebec army. The job to frame the CS just got much easier.

[keir451]

Expounding further upon the use of CS armour by non CS-troops.

What happens if Lazlo or New Tolkeen or the Splurgoth put some humanoid soldiers in CS armour and uniform and attack Quebec?

Is this going to drive the wedge between Quebec and CS deeper to the point that they may start outright war?

Well if the Splugorth wanted to .. They actually have merchants that Sell CS weapons, armors an other stuff...

All they would have to do is read the memories of the CS deadboys they have in the slave pens .. implant those memories into another totaly human being .. put that human in the Deadboy armor .. with a deep seeded hatred (which again can be put in the mind) and now do this as many times as it takes ..

Now you have 100% humans ..

100% Coalition Gear ..

100% Coalition men with CS memories ..

100% Hatred of FQ ..

100% full proof way to instigate ..

OK so you have 100% humans. What about their dog tags? Every CS soldier most likely has a Dog Tag that identifies him, even if you transplanted memories, copied the dog tags and altered their faces, their genetics wouldn't match and those missing soldiers would've been declared MIA, AWOL or KIA and that would be known to both sides intel services. Eventually the FQ and Chi-town intelligence services would backtrck the dead soldiers and the truth would be discovered esp. because no plan is ever completely fool proof. And after the first time thids happened both Chi-town and FQ would be on the lookout for such things and thus would have a greater chance of stopping it and backtracking it even further.
If my Merc group were asked to do such a thing we'd ask for the money up front, kill the dealer and take the money and equipment and run, either that or capture him and turn him in to the CS authorities for a reward. We'd probably try (and fail) to keep the gear hidden from the CS.

[V-Origin]

Expounding further upon the use of CS armour by non CS-troops.

What happens if Lazlo or New Tolkeen or the Splurgoth put some humanoid soldiers in CS armour and uniform and attack Quebec?

Is this going to drive the wedge between Quebec and CS deeper to the point that they may start outright war?

Well if the Splugorth wanted to .. They actually have merchants that Sell CS weapons, armors an other stuff...

All they would have to do is read the memories of the CS deadboys they have in the slave pens .. implant those memories into another totaly human being .. put that human in the Deadboy armor .. with a deep seeded hatred (which again can be put in the mind) and now do this as many times as it takes ..

Now you have 100% humans ..

100% Coalition Gear ..

100% Coalition men with CS memories ..

100% Hatred of FQ ..

100% full proof way to instigate ..

OK so you have 100% humans. What about their dog tags? Every CS soldier most likely has a Dog Tag that identifies him, even if you transplanted memories, copied the dog tags and altered their faces, their genetics wouldn't match and those missing soldiers would've been declared MIA, AWOL or KIA and that would be known to both sides intel services. Eventually the FQ and Chi-town intelligence services would backtrck the dead soldiers and the truth would be discovered esp. because no plan is ever completely fool proof. And after the first time thids happened both Chi-town and FQ would be on the lookout for such things and thus would have a greater chance of stopping it and backtracking it even further.
If my Merc group were asked to do such a thing we'd ask for the money up front, kill the dealer and take the money and equipment and run, either that or capture him and turn him in to the CS authorities for a reward. We'd probably try (and fail) to keep the gear hidden from the CS.

That is why I suggest kidnapping CS soldiers, brain-wipe their memories and using Noro psychics to possess them. The operation will be "cleaned". hhehehe

Btw, using your excuse.. what I would do is to send some Lazlo soldiers to attack Quebec with copied dog-tags and if Quebec point their fingers at me, I would just say those dog-tags are copied.

See how silly your argument is?

[Rallan]

While it has the possibility of creating tensions between the two nations, I don't think it would ever lead to war. Most likely it would lead to joint operations between the two nations to seek out the perpetrators. Even in the last case their will probably be some sort of evidence of a third party. From the bits of the slug inserted in their brains. Or to the interrogation of possible survivors who were disabled before they could detonate. Hell even if you rigged them right, the absurdity of inserting a bunch of explosives into multiple soldiers with overlapping dead-men's switches, would raise flags of someone trying something.

Yeah that'd work just fine until the Free Quebec government gets on the phone to Chi-Town demanding a stop to this outrage, and Chi-Town is all "What the..." and sends out some scouts from Iron Heart to find out what's going on. Or when CS units hear about what's going on and get ignored when they attempt to make radio contact with FQ's attackers. And that's assuming that it doesn't get blown out of the water before it even starts when the CS or FQ intelligence agencies notice the massive buildup of contraband CS military hardware.

It's a cute idea, but being able to maintain the charade long enough and on a large enough scale to provoke a war is pretty much a saturday morning action cartoon plot.

Oh and while we're on "See how silly your argument is?" stuff (since crystaleye's post just popped up), come on. Kidnapping CS soldiers, wiping their memories, and using Noro psychics to possess them?

How many Noro are there on Earth in the first place? Of them, how many can do that? And of them, how many are willing to be part of a plot where brainwashed CS troops are sent out to their deaths in the hope of triggering a war between the CS and one of its former states? The fact that you're already off in the wonderful world of rules-lawyering without worrying about whether it's remotely realistic in the setting or not kinda suggests that you've veered off into some seriously silly argument territory.

[V-Origin]

While it has the possibility of creating tensions between the two nations, I don't think it would ever lead to war. Most likely it would lead to joint operations between the two nations to seek out the perpetrators. Even in the last case their will probably be some sort of evidence of a third party. From the bits of the slug inserted in their brains. Or to the interrogation of possible survivors who were disabled before they could detonate. Hell even if you rigged them right, the absurdity of inserting a bunch of explosives into multiple soldiers with overlapping dead-men's switches, would raise flags of someone trying something.

Yeah that'd work just fine until the Free Quebec government gets on the phone to Chi-Town demanding a stop to this outrage, and Chi-Town is all "What the..." and sends out some scouts from Iron Heart to find out what's going on. Or when CS units hear about what's going on and get ignored when they attempt to make radio contact with FQ's attackers. And that's assuming that it doesn't get blown out of the water before it even starts when the CS or FQ intelligence agencies notice the massive buildup of contraband CS military hardware.

It's a cute idea, but being able to maintain the charade long enough and on a large enough scale to provoke a war is pretty much a saturday morning action cartoon plot.

Oh and while we're on "See how silly your argument is?" stuff (since crystaleye's post just popped up), come on. Kidnapping CS soldiers, wiping their memories, and using Noro psychics to possess them?

How many Noro are there on Earth in the first place? Of them, how many can do that? And of them, how many are willing to be part of a plot where brainwashed CS troops are sent out to their deaths in the hope of triggering a war between the CS and one of its former states? The fact that you're already off in the wonderful world of rules-lawyering without worrying about whether it's remotely realistic in the setting or not kinda suggests that you've veered off into some seriously silly argument territory.

The Free Quebec getting on a phone to call the CS to stop this outrage or CS units communicating with Quebec units to find out who's the real perpetrators.. now that's a cartoon plot.

Did you even read the descriptions on how Quebec citizens feel about the CS? They are paranoid about the CS attacking them so do you think they would even believe anything the CS says?

This is not an attack on Iron-Heart btw. Iron-Heart adores Chi-town but Quebec is rabidly paranoid about the CS's designs on them. Your strategy/reasoning might work if I attack Iron-Heart but it won't stand a chance ever if I attack Quebec.

In my setting where New Tolkeen has been established with a majority of UWW, skyraypers, atlanteans and other Rifts Dimension personnel, Noros are a dime a dozen and they understand the evil the CS to be. Please feel free to read about New Tolkeen in the following thread.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=106620

[Rallan]

While it has the possibility of creating tensions between the two nations, I don't think it would ever lead to war. Most likely it would lead to joint operations between the two nations to seek out the perpetrators. Even in the last case their will probably be some sort of evidence of a third party. From the bits of the slug inserted in their brains. Or to the interrogation of possible survivors who were disabled before they could detonate. Hell even if you rigged them right, the absurdity of inserting a bunch of explosives into multiple soldiers with overlapping dead-men's switches, would raise flags of someone trying something.

Yeah that'd work just fine until the Free Quebec government gets on the phone to Chi-Town demanding a stop to this outrage, and Chi-Town is all "What the..." and sends out some scouts from Iron Heart to find out what's going on. Or when CS units hear about what's going on and get ignored when they attempt to make radio contact with FQ's attackers. And that's assuming that it doesn't get blown out of the water before it even starts when the CS or FQ intelligence agencies notice the massive buildup of contraband CS military hardware.

It's a cute idea, but being able to maintain the charade long enough and on a large enough scale to provoke a war is pretty much a saturday morning action cartoon plot.

Oh and while we're on "See how silly your argument is?" stuff (since crystaleye's post just popped up), come on. Kidnapping CS soldiers, wiping their memories, and using Noro psychics to possess them?

How many Noro are there on Earth in the first place? Of them, how many can do that? And of them, how many are willing to be part of a plot where brainwashed CS troops are sent out to their deaths in the hope of triggering a war between the CS and one of its former states? The fact that you're already off in the wonderful world of rules-lawyering without worrying about whether it's remotely realistic in the setting or not kinda suggests that you've veered off into some seriously silly argument territory.

The Free Quebec getting on a phone to call the CS to stop this outrage or CS units communicating with Quebec units to find out who's the real perpetrators.. now that's a cartoon plot.

They're governments. Governments still communicate after they've withdrawn ambassadors, and even when they're at war. America and Russia spent the better part of half a century chattering almost nonstop even while they maneuvred entire armies to prepare for the possibility of WW3 and fought proxie wars all over the world. Hell, Nazi Germany was in communication with England and the United States throughout the Second World War.

Free Quebec and the Coalition States will have channels of communication. And if what appear to be CS units start attacking FQ units, the Quebec guys will try to brazen it out by ringing Chi-Town demanding to know what's going on and making ominous threats about what will happen if things aren't sorted out immediately. Meanwhile since they're almost at war with each other anway, the CS probably has enough military surveillance and sneaky intelligence in the area to know about any major battle involving FQ forces almost as soon as it happens even if the FQ authorities don't contact Prosek's regime demanding answers.

Did you even read the descriptions on how Quebec citizens feel about the CS? They are paranoid about the CS attacking them so do you think they would even believe anything the CS says?

Of course, because there's totally no real-world parallels of the United States and the Soviet Union getting in touch with each other to straighten out matters because one side or the other wants to make sure that an alarming incident isn't a precursor to open war or anything. You seem to be forgetting that the CS/FQ situation has settled down, and the main reason is because neither side really wants to heat things up right at the moment. Both sides would love to see something really bad happen to the other, but neither can afford a full-on war at the moment and both are gonna be reluctant to provoke it.

And this crazy scheme isn't gonna provoke it. Especially since it involves secretly putting together a big enough fake army to make FQ think it's a real invasion, which means somehow putting together the biggest CS-equipped force since Larsen's Brigade without anyone noticing. It's gonna be doomed long before Free Quebec's government starts angrily asking Chi-Town what it thinks it's trying to achieve.

[jaymz]

Hey, in my games FQ and the CS never reconciled and are in more of a cold war state. Several well planned "undercover ops" might be enough to trigger hostilities. Anything larger scale would be too transparent. As said earlier, the FQ spies in Chi Town will quickly debunk any phony border attacks.

You know, not even Prosek himself knows about every little secret military operations in the CS.

Do you think Obama knows about every single clandestine activity by the CIA?

How do you know it is not Iron-heart conducting the raids?

To say that FQ spies will debunk any phony border attacks is really naive.

Let me quote Coalition Wars 7 Aftermath page 62 for you.

"Free Quebec 109 P.A.
The people of Free Quebec were shocked by Prosek's change of heart.
Understandably, the more suspicious-minded leaders suspect treachery buried somewhere beneath the surface.
Others believe that the CS is just biding its time and up to no good.
No Quebecois can bring themselves to believe that Prosek was so moved by Quebec's sacrifices that he has given up on his dream to bring Quebec back into the fold."

Quebec and CS are bed-buddies? I think not.

While I do not think they are bed buddies, I DO think that intime they could repair much of the ill between them. You have to remember the FQ war was more or less Karl's doing. Joseph and his advisors weren't not for it even though they did not like the idea of FQ leaving. That alone shoudl indicate teh karl after a couple of years to cool off has softened is stance on the matter.

[Jack Daniels]

Oh and while we're on "See how silly your argument is?" stuff (since crystaleye's post just popped up), come on. Kidnapping CS soldiers, wiping their memories, and using Noro psychics to possess them?

How many Noro are there on Earth in the first place? Of them, how many can do that? And of them, how many are willing to be part of a plot where brainwashed CS troops are sent out to their deaths in the hope of triggering a war between the CS and one of its former states?

In my setting where New Tolkeen has been established with a majority of UWW, skyraypers, atlanteans and other Rifts Dimension personnel, Noros are a dime a dozen and they understand the evil the CS to be. Please feel free to read about New Tolkeen in the following thread.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=106620

That's not relevant in any way. Your setting might have pink puffy clouds spreading fairy peace dust across the Hivelands which makes this war between the CS and FQ something that your "New Tolkeen" has the time and inclination to instigate. But my setting lacks all of that except for the Hivelands so now why should I care, or accept as valid, your Noro based plan as remotely plausible or valid?

You cannot come on these forums, posit a theory like this and then use homebrew stuff to support your proof without stating that "In my setting you can disguise yourself as CS, attack FQ and start a war." The only people here who care about your setting are you and your players. The rest of us are going to look at the books and see what they have to say about New Tolkeen.

[keir451]

Expounding further upon the use of CS armour by non CS-troops.

What happens if Lazlo or New Tolkeen or the Splurgoth put some humanoid soldiers in CS armour and uniform and attack Quebec?

Is this going to drive the wedge between Quebec and CS deeper to the point that they may start outright war?

Well if the Splugorth wanted to .. They actually have merchants that Sell CS weapons, armors an other stuff...

All they would have to do is read the memories of the CS deadboys they have in the slave pens .. implant those memories into another totaly human being .. put that human in the Deadboy armor .. with a deep seeded hatred (which again can be put in the mind) and now do this as many times as it takes ..

Now you have 100% humans ..

100% Coalition Gear ..

100% Coalition men with CS memories ..

100% Hatred of FQ ..

100% full proof way to instigate ..

OK so you have 100% humans. What about their dog tags? Every CS soldier most likely has a Dog Tag that identifies him, even if you transplanted memories, copied the dog tags and altered their faces, their genetics wouldn't match and those missing soldiers would've been declared MIA, AWOL or KIA and that would be known to both sides intel services. Eventually the FQ and Chi-town intelligence services would backtrck the dead soldiers and the truth would be discovered esp. because no plan is ever completely fool proof. And after the first time thids happened both Chi-town and FQ would be on the lookout for such things and thus would have a greater chance of stopping it and backtracking it even further.
If my Merc group were asked to do such a thing we'd ask for the money up front, kill the dealer and take the money and equipment and run, either that or capture him and turn him in to the CS authorities for a reward. We'd probably try (and fail) to keep the gear hidden from the CS.

That is why I suggest kidnapping CS soldiers, brain-wipe their memories and using Noro psychics to possess them. The operation will be "cleaned". hhehehe

Btw, using your excuse.. what I would do is to send some Lazlo soldiers to attack Quebec with copied dog-tags and if Quebec point their fingers at me, I would just say those dog-tags are copied.

See how silly your argument is?

Not all that silly, just pointing out some facts relevant to the CS military; any soldier that goes missing is most likely declared MIA or KIA after being declared AWOL and their names removed from the CS active duty lists and possibly even listed as being dishonorably discharged. Where did they get the Dog tags inthe first place? Just because you've a machine that makes "Dog Tags" doesn't mean they're anything like the real ones (I know I was military and there are differnces between the real ones and the civilian ones).
Now if you could do it and keep them on the active duty roster, then you'd have a better chance of it looking real. To give the CS the intelligence they were born with regarding Dog tags they would both have ways of determining wether or not the tags are fake or not.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done just that it's not that easy to pull off and make it work.