Strongest mage?

[Anthar]

The Line Maker is pretty good. I mean they can create their own ley lines and nexus point, then harness that power for some pretty amazing effects.

[Balabanto]

Ley Line Walker for the win. Gets more spells than the Shifter, can take more physical skills, so he doesn't die to a 5th level Invocation, and once the Shifter dies, it's mopup time.

Battle Magus comes in a close second, because of how many actions it can take in a round, but you lose ley line phasing, sensitivity, etc.

[Shark_Force]

The Line Maker is pretty good. I mean they can create their own ley lines and nexus point, then harness that power for some pretty amazing effects.

Where did you get they can create their own ley lines?

it's one of their secret rituals that they never teach outsiders, and which even the 'insiders' have to be extremely experienced before they're taught.

by permanently expending their own PPE, they are able to create ley lines basically anywhere they like (well, provided they have something to draw on, i suppose). the corollary to that is, of course, that they can draw 2 lines that intersect each other, thereby creating a nexus. they used this technique to be able to power all their super line drawings that summon giant animals to beat the crud out of the arkhons. it is, however, extremely expensive, costing permanent PPE (1d4 or 1d6, depending on whether they extend or create a ley line) for every 100 feet. also, they would have to use their permanency drawing if they use the extend effect (otherwise it is only long-lasting, not permanent), which would make it take even more permanent PPE.

that said, if we're going to put this spellcaster in a vacuum (ie not reliant on external factors such as access to new spell knowledge or needed equipment), i'm going to have to vote shifter. they learn 3 new spells per level, with 2 of those spells having some high level options that would otherwise be extremely difficult to get their hands on, and they get them starting at level 2. additionally, the summoning ability and access to summoning spells means that a shifter can relatively (that is, relatively as compared to everyone else who doesn't get easy access to those spells and often doesn't cast them as effectively or easily) easily create a small army of supernatural beings if provided access to magical energy (summon lesser being, summon and control entity, tame beast, summoning ability, and they can potentially add mind controlled minions). and the link to the supernatural can add further abilities and/or spell knowledge.

the line drawer does have some powerful tricks up their sleeve, but i just don't see them being as all-around powerful, especially 'solo', as the shifter.

potentially, given access to a lot of time, resources, and spells, i could see a techno-wizard being close... but even then, i tend to see their power as being greatest in a group, where they can equip everyone, including those who otherwise would have little or even no access to magic with considerable power.

[Anthar]

I know in Rifter 19, there is a Dwormer Mage who can create leylines, but I've never heard in canon a LLW being able to do it. Got a page number.

SA2 pg 26 Nazca Line Maker OCC and PG 37 Create Ley Line and Extend Ley Line. The permancy cost is already listed in the spell and does not require the Permanency line drawing which can be used on other line drawings.

[Shark_Force]

I know in Rifter 19, there is a Dwormer Mage who can create leylines, but I've never heard in canon a LLW being able to do it. Got a page number.

SA2 pg 26 Nazca Line Maker OCC and PG 37 Create Ley Line and Extend Ley Line. The permancy cost is already listed in the spell and does not require the Permanency line drawing which can be used on other line drawings.

extend ley line only lasts 100 years. create ley line does not specify, so presumably the ley line does stay.

[Anthar]

I know in Rifter 19, there is a Dwormer Mage who can create leylines, but I've never heard in canon a LLW being able to do it. Got a page number.

SA2 pg 26 Nazca Line Maker OCC and PG 37 Create Ley Line and Extend Ley Line. The permancy cost is already listed in the spell and does not require the Permanency line drawing which can be used on other line drawings.

extend ley line only lasts 100 years. create ley line does not specify, so presumably the ley line does stay.

In the description of the ritual; "Unlike other line rituals, this one is permanent, as is Make a Ley Line below." No where does it mention a duration of 100 years.

[Shark_Force]

I know in Rifter 19, there is a Dwormer Mage who can create leylines, but I've never heard in canon a LLW being able to do it. Got a page number.

SA2 pg 26 Nazca Line Maker OCC and PG 37 Create Ley Line and Extend Ley Line. The permancy cost is already listed in the spell and does not require the Permanency line drawing which can be used on other line drawings.

extend ley line only lasts 100 years. create ley line does not specify, so presumably the ley line does stay.

In the description of the ritual; "Unlike other line rituals, this one is permanent, as is Make a Ley Line below." No where does it mention a duration of 100 years.

odd.... in the book of magic, it says extend ley line is semi-permanent, lasting 100 years. no note on duration is given for the "make ley line" drawing, which leads me to believe it's permanent (well, instant technically, but you get the point)

[Anthar]

I know in Rifter 19, there is a Dwormer Mage who can create leylines, but I've never heard in canon a LLW being able to do it. Got a page number.

SA2 pg 26 Nazca Line Maker OCC and PG 37 Create Ley Line and Extend Ley Line. The permancy cost is already listed in the spell and does not require the Permanency line drawing which can be used on other line drawings.

extend ley line only lasts 100 years. create ley line does not specify, so presumably the ley line does stay.

In the description of the ritual; "Unlike other line rituals, this one is permanent, as is Make a Ley Line below." No where does it mention a duration of 100 years.

odd.... in the book of magic, it says extend ley line is semi-permanent, lasting 100 years. no note on duration is given for the "make ley line" drawing, which leads me to believe it's permanent (well, instant technically, but you get the point)

Must be a misprint, "unlike other line drawings, this one is semi permanent"? all the other drawings have instant/short/semi-permanent durations. I'd rely on the original printed in SA:2 it makes more sense.

Edit: Besides, how would you explain all the Nazcan line flaring back to life after thousands of years if their duration was only 100 years?

[csbioborg]

the wizard juicer from austrialia

best deal in the world

you don't die unless you hit level 15

how many people actually hit that

[Shark_Force]

Must be a misprint, "unlike other line drawings, this one is semi permanent"? all the other drawings have instant/short/semi-permanent durations. I'd rely on the original printed in SA:2 it makes more sense.

Edit: Besides, how would you explain all the Nazcan line flaring back to life after thousands of years if their duration was only 100 years?

that's a pretty odd misprint, given it specifies 100 years in addition to describing it as semi-permanent. if it just said semi-permanent, i would agree.

as to how i explain the lines flaring back if it works like that, well... first off, it's possible they made them all using the "make ley line" drawing, which takes longer and requires a bit more PPE, but which (presumably) lasts indefinitely. alternately, it's possible they used the "extend ley line" drawing, and used the permanency drawing on it, which would be much faster than making the ley lines, but also much more draining (perhaps they are able to use permanent PPE from volunteers; i'm unaware of anything specifying it one way or another, and while it seems like it would be an important point to clarify if someone else can accept a portion of permanent PPE loss the same way they can accept temporary PPE loss, that doesn't necessarily mean that it would be explicitly spelled out). if others can take the permanent loss, then you could have regular people each give up (on average) 6 PPE before risking death, more if they're children, and the loss of the permanent PPE for the permanency drawing wouldn't be quite so harsh.

[csbioborg]

the wizard juicer from austrialia

best deal in the world

you don't die unless you hit level 15

how many people actually hit that

Did you ever look at their experience table? They only need 82k for 15th level, which is less than some classes need for 9th. Plus they start going down hill somewhere around 10th. And it specifically mentions that after about 3rd level there is no way to detox or change classes. In a really active game they will live less time than a regular juicer.

I admitedly never played one
but leveling say 9 levels in 5 years does not happen when I play
look at how many npcs are in their 40s that are at 9th
bascally you just need to be inactive in order to live a long happy life

[keir451]

The Warlock from the Conversion book (original, not revised) is pretty tough and even tho' it only gives you 8 occ skills the selection areas are nearly limit free!

[Mallak's Place]

No such thing as the Strongest Mage, only the Smartest (well played). I've seen Tricksters Rule and High Lords get their fannys handed to them. It's how you play, not what you play.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Lord Magus. Isn't that the one that starts with all illusion spells and eventually turns into a supernatural creature? That's my pick.

[Danger]

Ley Line Walker for the win. Gets more spells than the Shifter, can take more physical skills, so he doesn't die to a 5th level Invocation, and once the Shifter dies, it's mopup time.

Battle Magus comes in a close second, because of how many actions it can take in a round, but you lose ley line phasing, sensitivity, etc.

Since when? Last I checked, they only get 1 spell/level. The Shifter gets at least 2.

[Balabanto]

"A Ley Line Walker can learn ANY spell."

[drewkitty ~..~]

the best mage is not a Rifts mage, it is the HU Mystic Study.

as far as the Rifts' mages (excluding intuitive mages like mystcs and mystic knights) would be the TWs or LLWs.

[Shark_Force]

"A Ley Line Walker can learn ANY spell."

shifters can also learn any spell (ie any invocation). and they also get summoning, and some advantages (cheaper/more effective) on a number of spells.

[Cinos]

For the more common mages, I'd say the Ley Line Walker. High and Lord Magus get high marks, and in pure combat, Mystic Knight.

[runebeo]

For the strongest mage its got to be the Shifter class! Starts with a good amount of spells and extra abilities. With a Link to the supernatural they can have early access to some of the most powerful spells in the game at first level. Their greatest ability is being able to control supernatural creatures like angels, greater elementals, greater demons & the Undead a few of theses beings are way more power than the shifter or most other mages in Rifts. The same reason Shifter makes great powerful villains, his resources threw his spells & abilities to raise a powerful army of any kind of creature he wishes and create golems, zombies, skeletons, mummies, magic warriors, phantom horse. He can also have many longterm pets such as a few dozen wolves, predatory beasts like Demonrunners & Phantom Wolves, sea serpents, ghosts, spirits, ghouls, shadow beasts, doppleganger and many more with all the summon & control spells in the game. Too round out every good army the Shifter can hire/enslave flunkies like Psi-Goblins and buy slaves in Atlantis. Best perk for a Shifter is being able to stay at home and send in a disposable army of creatures to do his wishes, if their wiped out he can simply start over by heading to the nearest ley line.

[drewkitty ~..~]

For the more common mages, I'd say the Ley Line Walker. High and Lord Magus get high marks, and in pure combat, Mystic Knight.

The reason I excluded Mystic Knights and Mystics is because while they might be Magic Users, they are not really mages/magi. Their spells are intuitive in nature.

So, The Battle Magnus is the best at combat butt kicking mage.

[Danger]

Techno-Wizard is the best, hands down.

Good Combatant? Check
Buff your entire party with items and enchantments? Check
Generate Wealth? Check
Mechanic? Check
Weapon Engineer? Check
Armorer? Check
Spell Caster? Check

[Shark_Force]

i've made a techno-wizard. while the TW can be pretty solid in each of those departments, being good in all of them at once i am not convinced as being possible. it is also dependant on access to two key resources; time and components (primarily gems). with access to large amounts of those resources, a techno-wizard can indeed be powerful... though not particularly more powerful than some other mage who simply buys the same techno-wizardry items the TW would make.

they are quite good, and are even quite versatile, but they are not likely to be the best in those areas, for the most part, and in some cases nowhere near the best. (for example, my techno-wizard makes a pretty passable mechanic, weapon engineer, and armorer... and is an ok spellcaster... but is not likely to be particularly better at making money than any other mage, and is certainly not a good combatant outside of being a passable spellcaster. i certainly wouldn't want to be in a typical game with a techno-wizard unless there were others in the group, whereas i would feel pretty comfortable trying the same with a shifter, if only because the shifter can quickly generate several allies on short notice)

[The Galactus Kid]

Lord Magus. Isn't that the one that starts with all illusion spells and eventually turns into a supernatural creature? That's my pick.

Yup. They're pretty rad.

I would have to say Lord Magus or Shifter.

[Balabanto]

Well, a Slurmph Shifter with a bunch of ooze demons and other stinky servants would be the strongest smelling, but I don't think that's what we're talking about.

[Shadow Wyrm]

Lord Magus. Isn't that the one that starts with all illusion spells and eventually turns into a supernatural creature? That's my pick.

Yup. They're pretty rad.

I would have to say Lord Magus or Shifter.

If you rate a mage by hhigh level spells the High Mangus is far more powerful.

[Danger]

i've made a techno-wizard. while the TW can be pretty solid in each of those departments, being good in all of them at once i am not convinced as being possible. it is also dependant on access to two key resources; time and components (primarily gems). with access to large amounts of those resources, a techno-wizard can indeed be powerful... though not particularly more powerful than some other mage who simply buys the same techno-wizardry items the TW would make.

they are quite good, and are even quite versatile, but they are not likely to be the best in those areas, for the most part, and in some cases nowhere near the best. (for example, my techno-wizard makes a pretty passable mechanic, weapon engineer, and armorer... and is an ok spellcaster... but is not likely to be particularly better at making money than any other mage, and is certainly not a good combatant outside of being a passable spellcaster. i certainly wouldn't want to be in a typical game with a techno-wizard unless there were others in the group, whereas i would feel pretty comfortable trying the same with a shifter, if only because the shifter can quickly generate several allies on short notice)

I'll agree that the Techno-Wizard is not the most powerful out of the gate. However, they have the potential to be the most powerful.

[runebeo]

Well, a Slurmph Shifter with a bunch of ooze demons and other stinky servants would be the strongest smelling, but I don't think that's what we're talking about.

Each minion can give up to 70% of their P.P.E. pool to the Shifter, with their extra spell strength bonus of up to +2 from a link to a god of magic & many high level spells. No other mage comes close to a Shifter access to P.P.E. since greater demons can have a P.P.E. pool of over a thousand each. Never need to rely on his personal P.P.E. as well as having the highest spell strength and never needing to engage in combat is my idea of the strongest mage.

[Balabanto]

The problem is that in order to acquire this PPE, he has to be visible. And if he's visible, a rifle and other things can see him too. And once he dies, even though you have a bunch of angry demons on the loose, they're just mopup.

Shifters are awesome in a game where people don't use stealth to deal with problems. In a game where people do use stealth to deal with problems, a Shifter is an amazing disappearing ball of wet, followed by free demons on the loose.

And a Shifter cannot learn Necromancy, Ocean Magic, Old Believer Russian Magic, or any of those other esoteric traditions that a Line Walker can. The advantage of this is quite simply that versatility trumps having incredible amounts of PPE. Plus, the lack of the ability to learn many physical skills means that if he's caught off guard, he's a meat stick.

A Tolkeen Artifact Hunter is a slightly better shifter, but he eats it in other ways. Less base PPE, but like you said, summon a bunch of things, who cares?

Plus, elemental fragments are better than demons anyway. It's having Land of a Thousand Warlocks, since those spells no one but a Warlock can have, and you can't learn most of them to begin with.

[dark brandon]

eh...hum...Super Spy magic option. Has bountiful spells, and bountiful skills.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

LLW, can learn any spell printed, except maybe warlock. has the most base ppe. learns one spell per level. once per level, they may meditate on a ley line for a ley line spell, which are all useful in a way, and all potentially very powerful. can use technowizardry, can use ley lines much more efficiently than other magi. can learn and use any spell for summoning and binding creatures that a shifter can.

Well, if I had to pick, I'd say either a hatchling dragon (As they do eventually become adult dragons),Or the Godling out of Pantheons... the ability to take several mage OCC's is nice.

we were talking about magic occ's, not just anything that can maybe possibly use magic.
your other suggestions were cool though. im a fan of the white rose myself.

[Shark_Force]

LLW, can learn any spell printed, except maybe warlock. has the most base ppe. learns one spell per level. once per level, they may meditate on a ley line for a ley line spell, which are all useful in a way, and all potentially very powerful. can use technowizardry, can use ley lines much more efficiently than other magi. can learn and use any spell for summoning and binding creatures that a shifter can.

1) explicitly not warlock spells. it's stated a number of times.
2) there are many forms of magic which explicitly state how they interact with other magic classes, including ley line walkers. in general, the LLW gets no extra benefits over other casters who use standard invocation magic. in many cases, they cannot learn any of the spells at all (which is also true for other OCCs that use standard invocation magic)
3) every mage can potentially use techno-wizardry. this is nothing special. i will grant that LLW do use ley lines more effectively than others, though.
4) can learn the summoning and binding spells, yes. can learn them as easily as a shifter? no. in some cases, various transportation-related spells are also cheaper, and certain spells are more effective for shifters (for example, tame beast). finally, this still doesn't account for the fact that the shifter can use all those spells *and* have additional summoned beings beyond that.

if you want to argue in favor of ley line walker, pick some of it's actual advantages. like the improved use of ley lines, or their ley line phasing ability.

[runebeo]

The problem is that in order to acquire this PPE, he has to be visible. And if he's visible, a rifle and other things can see him too. And once he dies, even though you have a bunch of angry demons on the loose, they're just mopup.

Shifters are awesome in a game where people don't use stealth to deal with problems. In a game where people do use stealth to deal with problems, a Shifter is an amazing disappearing ball of wet, followed by free demons on the loose.

And a Shifter cannot learn Necromancy, Ocean Magic, Old Believer Russian Magic, or any of those other esoteric traditions that a Line Walker can. The advantage of this is quite simply that versatility trumps having incredible amounts of PPE. Plus, the lack of the ability to learn many physical skills means that if he's caught off guard, he's a meat stick.

A Tolkeen Artifact Hunter is a slightly better shifter, but he eats it in other ways. Less base PPE, but like you said, summon a bunch of things, who cares?

Plus, elemental fragments are better than demons anyway. It's having Land of a Thousand Warlocks, since those spells no one but a Warlock can have, and you can't learn most of them to begin with.

Being within 20 feet to draw on the energy may not put the mage out in the open and visible, he could still have cover or simple go undetected, it really depends on the situation.
Their no limit to the range a minion can travel to do its master's biding. No reason a demon can't use a radio, ley line communication, second sight, magic pigeon, telepathy or follow an appointed leader. That leader maybe a Shen Wu, Doppleganger, Raksasha, Minddolar or Mystic Oni can also draw o pond the P.P.E. pool if hes in charge.

Talking about stealth then you need to think about his demons & minions have enhanced senses & psi abilities, plus the minions own stealth abilities make up for the mage's lack of stealth. Some minions can turn invisible, fly, shape change, chameleon, shadowmeld, astral project and turn into mist, making it really hard to sneak up on group. Shifter can have stealth spells as well. Some minion like Brodkill use bionic enhanced sight and sniper rifles to keep watch. Whats a energy rifle do to a shifter who has thousands of P.P.E. available to him to cast numerous forcefields, armor spells & Impervious to energy spells. Lastly with shape shifters, metamorphosis spells & dopplegangers around how do you know which one is the real Shifter to shoot?

A Shifter with a link to a God of Magic can have access to other kinds of spells like Necromancy (Bone Magic), Ocean Magic, Nature Magic, temporal magic, etc. look in RUE page 125.

summoning a bunch of things is what it all about! More P.P.E., more attacks, more abilities, more eyes, etc... Think about a the cost for a robot like the CS Skellbots or Triax combat robots cost in millions while a demon or supernatural creature, spirit, predatory beast is free minus the P.P.E. cost. A Shifter with 5 or more spell casting minions at a ley line can easily draw o pond an extra 60 P.P.E. or 120 P.P.E. at a nexus per melee double at noon & midnight.

elemental fragments are powerful but lack ability to communicate & interact with humans & D-Bees. Demons are master spies that know how to deal with people.

Guess my experiences with Shifters greatly differ from yours experiences.

[Balabanto]

Master spies, huh? A thermal imager or anyone in full EBA sees a demon shape. Most of them can't cast superior invisibility. And, the psionic ability to sense evil just gives people headaches and "Look, you're a demon."

Demons make crappy spies in Rifts. They're basically low grade bruisers with tons of MDC. Meat shields one and all, but not very useful in combat. The advantage of demons is that they live for thousands of years and know the right strategies to use, but god forbid you should make an enemy of a powerful one.

[runebeo]

Have you read all the write ups on demons in Dark Conversions, Chaos Earth™ Sourcebook One: Creatures of Chaos, Rifts Russia, Rifts China and some more Chaos demons in a Rifter book with a real nasty Mosquito Demon in it. Read up on Shen Wu, wise warrior in China. A demon with an I.Q. of 25 to 28, Magically speaks all languages and read all Chinese languages at 98%, read English & Spanish 90%, Basic Math 98%, Calligraphy 90%, Dance 90%, History: China 98%, Holistic Medicine 70%, Intelligence 80%, Interrogation Techniques 70%, and Land navigation 98%. Acrobatics 90%, Climb 98%/95%, Boxing, Wrestling, Swim 98%, Track Animals 80%, Tracking (Humanoids) 80%, Xenology 80%, Archaeology 80%, Astrophysics 80%, Computer programming 80%, Philosophy 80%, Research 80%, Computer Operation 95%, Basic Radio 95%, Basic Mechanics 95%, Demolition 95%, Horsemanship: Exotic 95%, Military Etiquette 95%, Recognize Weapon Quality 95%, Trap/Mind detection 95%, Laws 95%, and all lores 95%. This is just a meat shield?

[Balabanto]

Have you read all the write ups on demons in Dark Conversions, Chaos Earth™ Sourcebook One: Creatures of Chaos, Rifts Russia, Rifts China and some more Chaos demons in a Rifter book with a real nasty Mosquito Demon in it. Read up on Shen Wu, wise warrior in China. A demon with an I.Q. of 25 to 28, Magically speaks all languages and read all Chinese languages at 98%, read English & Spanish 90%, Basic Math 98%, Calligraphy 90%, Dance 90%, History: China 98%, Holistic Medicine 70%, Intelligence 80%, Interrogation Techniques 70%, and Land navigation 98%. Acrobatics 90%, Climb 98%/95%, Boxing, Wrestling, Swim 98%, Track Animals 80%, Tracking (Humanoids) 80%, Xenology 80%, Archaeology 80%, Astrophysics 80%, Computer programming 80%, Philosophy 80%, Research 80%, Computer Operation 95%, Basic Radio 95%, Basic Mechanics 95%, Demolition 95%, Horsemanship: Exotic 95%, Military Etiquette 95%, Recognize Weapon Quality 95%, Trap/Mind detection 95%, Laws 95%, and all lores 95%. This is just a meat shield?

It is if your characters have never been to china, because they don't know it exists! The issue is what characters can REASONABLY know. If I can always pick the best demon, regardless of whether or not my GM lets me know about it, then sure. Now why don't you try having a contest of wills with this Bruiser?

[runebeo]

Shifters are trained by other shifters and usually belong to a guild at least for some part of their lives. Guilds have libraries and why own the China book if you can't go there? In Rift dimensional builder Shen wu recieve no bonuses to battle of wills while some other creatures can recieve up to +5 bonus, Shen wu are use to serving a master.

[Balabanto]

Uh, because most of us don't know everything and every rule in the book before we buy it. We buy it, and then sometimes wish we hadn't.

[Danger]

LLW, can learn any spell printed, except maybe warlock. has the most base ppe. learns one spell per level. once per level, they may meditate on a ley line for a ley line spell, which are all useful in a way, and all potentially very powerful. can use technowizardry, can use ley lines much more efficiently than other magi. can learn and use any spell for summoning and binding creatures that a shifter can.

1) explicitly not warlock spells. it's stated a number of times.
2) there are many forms of magic which explicitly state how they interact with other magic classes, including ley line walkers. in general, the LLW gets no extra benefits over other casters who use standard invocation magic. in many cases, they cannot learn any of the spells at all (which is also true for other OCCs that use standard invocation magic)
3) every mage can potentially use techno-wizardry. this is nothing special. i will grant that LLW do use ley lines more effectively than others, though.
4) can learn the summoning and binding spells, yes. can learn them as easily as a shifter? no. in some cases, various transportation-related spells are also cheaper, and certain spells are more effective for shifters (for example, tame beast). finally, this still doesn't account for the fact that the shifter can use all those spells *and* have additional summoned beings beyond that.

if you want to argue in favor of ley line walker, pick some of it's actual advantages. like the improved use of ley lines, or their ley line phasing ability.

Agreed. In fact, I count LLW as one of the weakest mages, or just plain 'Average' at best. The Techno-Wizard and the Shifter are the two big dogs of the standard casters.

The TW pulls ahead in the long run with his devices and raw utility he adds to himself and any party he travels with.

[The Galactus Kid]

people come and go from China all the time. Rifts China and Rifts Japan both attest to this fact.

[Gazirra]

Godling with the Gift of Magic selected three times: twice choose dual-element Warlock abilities, then choose Shifter. Then, impale yourself on Yggdrasil, and Voila!

[Shadow Wyrm]

Shifters are trained by other shifters and usually belong to a guild at least for some part of their lives. Guilds have libraries and why own the China book if you can't go there? In Rift dimensional builder Shen wu recieve no bonuses to battle of wills while some other creatures can recieve up to +5 bonus, Shen wu are use to serving a master.

It states pretty clearly in several books that no one has come back from there. Now sure you could play through an adventure where you go there, or the GM could rule that someone from your "guild" has done so, but that isn't a standard thing. From the setting as written unless your character is born in China then he doesn't know about them.

That was a really great line to hand everybody when there were no World Books for them, now that we have imformation on them, I'd say they are open for buisness.

[runebeo]

If you alway obey the books word for word then your group won't know about or encounter Archie 3, but the main adventure in the book is all about meet him & Hagan. Cannot go to the Nightlands or Splicers world, use tattoo magic on Palladium, learn lightning arrow magic, not know about NGR uranium rounds, Shemarrian or Republicans true origin. Best is no one can use a Shemarrian rifle while Cyber-Knights have jousting competitions with them. How many cities in Rifts that are magically hidden? City of Brass, Dweomer, Psyscape, plus Japan just phases in from the pass one fine day and Yucatan Peninsula is held in limbo. Then theres silly rules like no Glitter Boys for the CS while they most likely have a stock pile of a thousand plus locked away or no psychics for Free Quebec military while 25% of the human population have psionic powers, not like theres shape-shifting supernatural monsters everywhere on the planet trying to take it over? No man objects can enter the Nightlands dimension is another. I understand putting limits on things that can be abused by players but saying China is not to be mixed with the rest of the world is a bad sales move. Rifts is a game without limits, but no going to Splicers or you die by the nanoplague, can't use magic or psionics there as well, I was annoyed that psionics are only half powered on Wormwood. Guess no white after Labour day is also in-effect lol!

[Astral Pantheon]

Wow, no Necromacer. Don't forget the ability to use Supernatual (and Dragon) Skulls and get access to their magic. That allows even low level the ability to all sorts of magic at their fingertips.

[Shark_Force]

perhaps it has something to do with that fact that dragons are usually quite attached to their skulls (literally and figuratively) and do not usually wish to part with them, no matter how politely you ask.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

perhaps it has something to do with that fact that dragons are usually quite attached to their skulls (literally and figuratively) and do not usually wish to part with them, no matter how politely you ask.

or the fact that the wb4 african necromancer is what comes to mind for most people. that necromancer sucked.

[Astral Pantheon]

perhaps it has something to do with that fact that dragons are usually quite attached to their skulls (literally and figuratively) and do not usually wish to part with them, no matter how politely you ask.

Get a few Dragon Juicer allies and let Dragon Hunting Season begin

[The Galactus Kid]

I have a villain in one of my games that is an Adult dragon that has made a couple Dragon Juicers as body guards.