Machinations of Doom -the key to strike down the CS for good

[V-Origin]

You can remote-view before casting mystic portal can't you?

remote view what and who? you need to have a picture of the target for remote viewing to work, you can only use it once per day on a given target, and you have no way of knowing where the target is until you've used it. second sight doesn't have the once per 24 hours restriction, but does require that you actually have met the target, which is just as hard a restriction to beat, if not harder.

Then don't remote view. Mystic Portal is only for burrowing a magical hole through walls.

Get a Psi-Ghost to float through to the other side. If there are no enemies, then use a Mystic Portal through the walls.

Have you no sense of strategy?

[V-Origin]

The comic in the Rifters was put in the book "Machinations of Doom" and there were stats given for all the key personalities and all the creatures.

But to be honest the "whole key to strike down the CS" is nothing but meta gaming to me, who even knows the creatures exist beyond Bradford.
The Chimp only knew of the Alpha project, not the omega project.
Bradford seems to be the type who keeps his "pet" scientists working on one project or only part of a project like some military contractors do today with sensitive projects.
The heroes down loaded various genetic data nobody knows if the info they have contains details on the omega beast or even the Aishwarra beast that the "heroes" fought and saw destroyed and the two different beasts don't even look the same, so its a leap that they'd connect the two if they ever saw the much smaller, less powerful Omega.
Who is going to know that the Omegas where a product of Lonestar facility?
There are already a lot of creatures out there that people swear is a creation of Lonestar but really aren't.
It will be seen as yet another rumor until some serious evidence is given, and that evidence may not even exist.
Bradford let them escape, he is letting them take the data file to where ever it ends up, they are being used and most likely set up by Bradford.
It's not like the Omegas are just going to trundle out the front door of Lonestar, Bradford will most likely set them down in specific spots.
The Omegas are hardly a challege for any Dragon beyond hatchlings and with the increased Splugorth raider and slaver activity in North America the released Omegas will actually help in dealing with them.

It is hardly anything that will spell the doom for the CS, barely a worth mentioning let alone the key to strike them down.

Your political naivety is indeed laughable. It is true that the the Omegas are hardly any challenge but if you have psychics probing the witnesses' memories for what really happened, then the higher-ups in any magic-using nation are gonna be real pissed off with the CS.

Especially the Native Americans, camp Apache, who is just next to Lone Star.

Even if you have separate departments working on the same project, are you going to claim that there is not even one single docter besides Bradford who knows about the ultimate aim of the Omega projects?

We are talking about kidnapping the head researchers of the Omega projects. Researchers like Docter Alexander and Docter Heston, the chimp, who knows about these projects.

So are you telling me there are only 2 docters in the whole Lone Star complex who knows about the truth and there is no one else who knows the truth? Please, I know you wanna protect your beloved CS and any fool would see that your answer is too naive and childish.

It's childish remarks that make people not like these forums.

I cherish no faction, unlike your rabid ill thought out plots to destroy the CS.
Probing witnesses memories aren't going to say hey the CS made these things, its just going to say, yep those things destroyed this village.
whoopty fricken doo.
It boggles the mind how anyone would even make that connection, your need to find some plot that destroys the CS has gotten to the point it is now overriding simple common sense.
You are the one who has no concept on how things work in the real world.
You are the one who insist that somehow the mage societies just "know" that the beasts are made in Lonestar, you provide nothing that stat's just how these societies are going to find out , they just know.

I say that Bradford may separate his "pet" scientists in his projects it suddenly means to you there are only a couple scientists in all of Lonestar.

Bradford can have his scientists working on a lot of projects, but Bradford seems to like his secrets, his control over people and loves to play god.
His "pet" scientists are disposable and as such there's no reason to place them in a lot of various projects if these mutant animals are likely to get torn apart and eaten or used like the mutant monkey in the comics, that's why he would most likely have them working on parts of the project were if the mutant doctor is lost then over all work on the project isn't delayed.

If you spent more time on maturely thinking things through instead of coming up with childish comments when people find your plots are loaded more holes than a strainer you would see this.

reading everyone else posts and your replys It's become obvious you just like to and need to argue and take instant offense and become condescending when people give rational explanations as to why your ill thought out plots won't work, there is no real mature thinking done in your replys, so just going to place you on ignore and be done with you as there are more mature, open mined people who think things through on the boards I enjoy reading and communicating with.

I am not saying the mages just "know" that Lone Star is the one who created the Omegas. I am saying that the various factions have various avenues to gather intelligence on the real culprits behind the Omegas.

Interrogating the party who downloaded the data, using psychic powers on them, kidnapping the docters off Lone Star, infiltrating Lone Star and gathering evidence, kidnapping CS soldiers and interrogating them

It is you who has childishly ignored the workings of the real world. If you can't come up with more sophisticated defense measures besides Gamemasters' authority, feel free to ignore this thread as it is just too intelligent for you.

[V-Origin]

The only problem is in all of this is that you DONT KNOW who to go after in the first place because you DONT KNOW who knows about this project.

Wrong. The Chimp Docter, Dr Heston, who got away with the 1st adventuring party, knows the key personnel in this project.

If I was the CS, I would be sending waves of assassins after him. Yes waves. Bradford is a fool for letting him go.

Even IF the psi-ghosts get in and do the recon, you still cant take anyone the same way with the next group the PGs got thru. One any hostile action is take the invisibility drops and all sensors will detect them automatically or do you think teh peopel being grabbed will jsut do nothing to defend themsleves once grabbed too?

First of all, no hostile action should and will ever be taken on a spying mission. Unless it is a diversionary attack topside to draw the defenders away.

Secondly, once the psi-ghosts has entered the facility once, it is a simple matter of using teleportation scrolls to get into the same location again.

Sure, there will be heightened defenses in the facility but no facility is fool-proof against Psi-ghosts. Especially not against Psi-ghosts with Invisibility Superior and Teleportation Scrolls.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I just checked RUE ther is NOTHING thats states see the invisible does not work on Invisibilty Superior, only that it prevents normal senses and sesnors from detecting the invisible person. So unless you are talking about a seperate superior invisibiity spell....See the Invisible WILL work.

Unless the psychics, of which there are hundreds, and dog boys , of which are thousands, would never routinely use see the invisible while patrolling, then maybe you are right and these psi ghosts can mystic portal in and never be seen at all.

Please observe the differences between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior and get back to me.

Invisibility Simple - Only being who can naturally, psionically or magically "see the invisible" are able to see invisibility simple.

Invisibility Superior - The target is invisible to all means of detection. Period.

The Psi-Ghosts will be there to do the initial recon work so that the main kidnapping/spying party consisting of various factions will have an easier job.

Except the part where it says clearly that See the Invisible does show invisibility superior, they are at merely -2 penalty to strike for being somewhat blurry.

[Nekira Sudacne]

You can remote-view before casting mystic portal can't you?

remote view what and who? you need to have a picture of the target for remote viewing to work, you can only use it once per day on a given target, and you have no way of knowing where the target is until you've used it. second sight doesn't have the once per 24 hours restriction, but does require that you actually have met the target, which is just as hard a restriction to beat, if not harder.

Then don't remote view. Mystic Portal is only for burrowing a magical hole through walls.

Get a Psi-Ghost to float through to the other side. If there are no enemies, then use a Mystic Portal through the walls.

Have you no sense of strategy?

You are aware that Mask PPE won't mask a spell actually in use, right?

[V-Origin]

You can remote-view before casting mystic portal can't you?

remote view what and who? you need to have a picture of the target for remote viewing to work, you can only use it once per day on a given target, and you have no way of knowing where the target is until you've used it. second sight doesn't have the once per 24 hours restriction, but does require that you actually have met the target, which is just as hard a restriction to beat, if not harder.

Then don't remote view. Mystic Portal is only for burrowing a magical hole through walls.

Get a Psi-Ghost to float through to the other side. If there are no enemies, then use a Mystic Portal through the walls.

Have you no sense of strategy?

You are aware that Mask PPE won't mask a spell actually in use, right?

You are aware that Invisibility Superior will cover all actions unless it is a hostile action, right? Mask PPE is just a back-up spell.

[V-Origin]

I just checked RUE ther is NOTHING thats states see the invisible does not work on Invisibilty Superior, only that it prevents normal senses and sesnors from detecting the invisible person. So unless you are talking about a seperate superior invisibiity spell....See the Invisible WILL work.

Unless the psychics, of which there are hundreds, and dog boys , of which are thousands, would never routinely use see the invisible while patrolling, then maybe you are right and these psi ghosts can mystic portal in and never be seen at all.

Please observe the differences between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior and get back to me.

Invisibility Simple - Only being who can naturally, psionically or magically "see the invisible" are able to see invisibility simple.

Invisibility Superior - The target is invisible to all means of detection. Period.

The Psi-Ghosts will be there to do the initial recon work so that the main kidnapping/spying party consisting of various factions will have an easier job.

Except the part where it says clearly that See the Invisible does show invisibility superior, they are at merely -2 penalty to strike for being somewhat blurry.

Book and page number please.

[jaymz]

I just checked RUE ther is NOTHING thats states see the invisible does not work on Invisibilty Superior, only that it prevents normal senses and sesnors from detecting the invisible person. So unless you are talking about a seperate superior invisibiity spell....See the Invisible WILL work.

Unless the psychics, of which there are hundreds, and dog boys , of which are thousands, would never routinely use see the invisible while patrolling, then maybe you are right and these psi ghosts can mystic portal in and never be seen at all.

Please observe the differences between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior and get back to me.

Invisibility Simple - Only being who can naturally, psionically or magically "see the invisible" are able to see invisibility simple.

Invisibility Superior - The target is invisible to all means of detection. Period.

The Psi-Ghosts will be there to do the initial recon work so that the main kidnapping/spying party consisting of various factions will have an easier job.

Except the part where it says clearly that See the Invisible does show invisibility superior, they are at merely -2 penalty to strike for being somewhat blurry.

Book and page number please.

RUE in the spell description does NOT state it is immune to all forms or detection only normal forms of detection such as optics, sensors, smell etc. There is NO mention whatsoever about it also negating see the invisible. Also under the See the Invisible description it states that you can see ALL that are invisible whether they were made to be so or if they are naturally so.

Page 212 for Invisibility and page 176 for See the Invisible.

Also your teleportation scroll if anythign like the spell woudl have to be used by the person that was there, would have to be able to use scrolls (I didn;t think psychics could use them but I am probably wonr on that) AND it isn;t 100% accurate.

Am I sayig it CAN'T be done. No I am sure it is possible however it is improbable. Not to mention they would very little gain from a creature that will initially be a threat but really isn't that BIG of a threat to warrant such a high risk low success rate mission.

[Nekira Sudacne]

See Jaymez's post for said books and page numbers

Invisibility Superior is NOT the all-encompassing spell you apparently think it is.

[jaymz]

See Jaymez's post for said books and page numbers

Invisibility Superior is NOT the all-encompassing spell you apparently think it is.

Are we actually on the SAME side of an argument Nekira?

[Nekira Sudacne]

See Jaymez's post for said books and page numbers

Invisibility Superior is NOT the all-encompassing spell you apparently think it is.

Are we actually on the SAME side of an argument Nekira?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

[jaymz]

See Jaymez's post for said books and page numbers

Invisibility Superior is NOT the all-encompassing spell you apparently think it is.

Are we actually on the SAME side of an argument Nekira?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

That was just low

[Grell]

And also funny!

[V-Origin]

I just checked RUE ther is NOTHING thats states see the invisible does not work on Invisibilty Superior, only that it prevents normal senses and sesnors from detecting the invisible person. So unless you are talking about a seperate superior invisibiity spell....See the Invisible WILL work.

Unless the psychics, of which there are hundreds, and dog boys , of which are thousands, would never routinely use see the invisible while patrolling, then maybe you are right and these psi ghosts can mystic portal in and never be seen at all.

Please observe the differences between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior and get back to me.

Invisibility Simple - Only being who can naturally, psionically or magically "see the invisible" are able to see invisibility simple.

Invisibility Superior - The target is invisible to all means of detection. Period.

The Psi-Ghosts will be there to do the initial recon work so that the main kidnapping/spying party consisting of various factions will have an easier job.

Except the part where it says clearly that See the Invisible does show invisibility superior, they are at merely -2 penalty to strike for being somewhat blurry.

Book and page number please.

RUE in the spell description does NOT state it is immune to all forms or detection only normal forms of detection such as optics, sensors, smell etc. There is NO mention whatsoever about it also negating see the invisible. Also under the See the Invisible description it states that you can see ALL that are invisible whether they were made to be so or if they are naturally so.

Page 212 for Invisibility and page 176 for See the Invisible.

Also your teleportation scroll if anythign like the spell woudl have to be used by the person that was there, would have to be able to use scrolls (I didn;t think psychics could use them but I am probably wonr on that) AND it isn;t 100% accurate.

Am I sayig it CAN'T be done. No I am sure it is possible however it is improbable. Not to mention they would very little gain from a creature that will initially be a threat but really isn't that BIG of a threat to warrant such a high risk low success rate mission.

So tell me genius. What is the difference between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior then?

I checked those pages and nowhere did it say -2 to strike invisible characters.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Please observe the differences between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior and get back to me.

Invisibility Simple - Only being who can naturally, psionically or magically "see the invisible" are able to see invisibility simple.

Invisibility Superior - The target is invisible to all means of detection. Period.

The Psi-Ghosts will be there to do the initial recon work so that the main kidnapping/spying party consisting of various factions will have an easier job.

Except the part where it says clearly that See the Invisible does show invisibility superior, they are at merely -2 penalty to strike for being somewhat blurry.

Book and page number please.

RUE in the spell description does NOT state it is immune to all forms or detection only normal forms of detection such as optics, sensors, smell etc. There is NO mention whatsoever about it also negating see the invisible. Also under the See the Invisible description it states that you can see ALL that are invisible whether they were made to be so or if they are naturally so.

Page 212 for Invisibility and page 176 for See the Invisible.

Also your teleportation scroll if anythign like the spell woudl have to be used by the person that was there, would have to be able to use scrolls (I didn;t think psychics could use them but I am probably wonr on that) AND it isn;t 100% accurate.

Am I sayig it CAN'T be done. No I am sure it is possible however it is improbable. Not to mention they would very little gain from a creature that will initially be a threat but really isn't that BIG of a threat to warrant such a high risk low success rate mission.

So tell me genius. What is the difference between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior then?

I checked those pages and nowhere did it say -2 to strike invisible characters.

Page 203 in RUE, actually. Under the Invisibility Simple spell, under the NOTE: section: it says that, in the very last line "See the invisible can see both invisbility simple and superior". However, that same section says that invisibility simple may be heard, smelled, and register on motion detectors and similiar electronic devices while Supierior cannot.

[V-Origin]

Page 203 in RUE, actually. Under the Invisibility Simple spell, under the NOTE: section: it says that, in the very last line "See the invisible can see both invisbility simple and superior". However, that same section says that invisibility simple may be heard, smelled, and register on motion detectors and similiar electronic devices while Supierior cannot.

If I say I am going to hire some Psi-Ghosts with invisibility and teleportation scrolls to spy in Lone Star, you are probably gonna say you will put dogboys and psychics on every level and in every room. Including the room where the Omegas are.

Well that will just expose the Omegas to more soldiers aka witnesses. Witnesses whom I will just capture and interrogate in front of the various factions.

In fact, I will deliberately hire some Psi-Ghosts to spy on Lone Star and have them be deliberately detected by your psychics and mutants. That way, Bradford will be forced to move the Omegas or release them early which will only increase the number of witnesses.

Regardless of which way you run things, I will always have a back-up plan in mind.

[jaymz]

So tell me genius. What is the difference between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior then?

I checked those pages and nowhere did it say -2 to strike invisible characters.

Nekira already answered the difference between the two Invisibilities so I wont but You may want to read closer to what you respond to because I wasn't the one who siad there was a -2 penalty. You'll also note I did not say this type of operations could possibly be done it's just very improbable to succeed. Especially with the ease you seem to think it will work considering your choices have a high degree of potential failure.

You may want to get that chip off you shoulder as well because frankly you are acting like an ass when all I have done is try to argue with you and point out flaws in your position. I have not been condescending or sarcastically insulting. YOU have. You want to be that way then do it by yourself, I prefer to actually argue point counter point not the trolling crap you are doing.

[V-Origin]

So tell me genius. What is the difference between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior then?

I checked those pages and nowhere did it say -2 to strike invisible characters.

Nekira already answered the difference between the two Invisibilities so I wont but You may want to read closer to what you respond to because I wasn't the one who siad there was a -2 penalty. You'll also note I did not say this type of operations could possibly be done it's just very improbable to succeed. Especially with the ease you seem to think it will work considering your choices have a high degree of potential failure.

You may want to get that chip off you shoulder as well because frankly you are acting like an ass when all I have done is try to argue with you and point out flaws in your position. I have not been condescending or sarcastically insulting. YOU have. You want to be that way then do it by yourself, I prefer to actually argue point counter point not the trolling crap you are doing.

I wasn't trying to be an ass. It was because no one pointed out that page to me in the first place. I checked my sources from Book of Magic and nowhere did it say See the Invisible covers both Invisible Simple and Superior.

You know what, I guess I will just get a Mindolar Slug to bite a kidnapped CS captain, plant a video camera in his eye and let him explore Lone Star. That Video Camera eye will record any evidence of Omegas. Saves me the trouble of creating those thousands of Invisibility and Teleportation scrolls.

[jaymz]

Page 203 in RUE, actually. Under the Invisibility Simple spell, under the NOTE: section: it says that, in the very last line "See the invisible can see both invisbility simple and superior". However, that same section says that invisibility simple may be heard, smelled, and register on motion detectors and similiar electronic devices while Supierior cannot.

If I say I am going to hire some Psi-Ghosts with invisibility and teleportation scrolls to spy in Lone Star, you are probably gonna say you will put dogboys and psychics on every level and in every room. Including the room where the Omegas are.

Well that will just expose the Omegas to more soldiers aka witnesses. Witnesses whom I will just capture and interrogate in front of the various factions.

In fact, I will deliberately hire some Psi-Ghosts to spy on Lone Star and have them be deliberately detected by your psychics and mutants. That way, Bradford will be forced to move the Omegas or release them early which will only increase the number of witnesses.

Regardless of which way you run things, I will always have a back-up plan in mind.

Considering the nature of the facility I think it is safe to say every patrol throughout the facility does in fact have a dog boy present. That would include every level of the facility. You on the other seem to asume anyone who knows of the omegas has access to them and knows wher eint eh facilityt hey are. That is wrong. The actual location of hte Omegas is probably known to a few at best. Doesnt mean no one patrols the area. In ral life mane scientist worked onteh Nuclear Bomb but they had bno idea where the testing and creation of the bombs was going on, for all they knew it was just downt eh hall. They also for the most part didn;t care at the time. Pretty sure Bradford has such a tight reign on things that he woudl make sure only himself and very few if more than 3-4 know what is really going on. Hell for all we know the peopel invovled n the project think its a theoretical project, not one that has been actually out in practical use.

The party that was there, monkey doc included, do NOT have enough intel aside from those files to allow anyone to really do much of anything. I won't even go into the fact these tigns are not that BIG of a threat as a whole once released or the unlikelyhood of the factions invovled ever working to gether in such a manner.

[V-Origin]

Page 203 in RUE, actually. Under the Invisibility Simple spell, under the NOTE: section: it says that, in the very last line "See the invisible can see both invisbility simple and superior". However, that same section says that invisibility simple may be heard, smelled, and register on motion detectors and similiar electronic devices while Supierior cannot.

If I say I am going to hire some Psi-Ghosts with invisibility and teleportation scrolls to spy in Lone Star, you are probably gonna say you will put dogboys and psychics on every level and in every room. Including the room where the Omegas are.

Well that will just expose the Omegas to more soldiers aka witnesses. Witnesses whom I will just capture and interrogate in front of the various factions.

In fact, I will deliberately hire some Psi-Ghosts to spy on Lone Star and have them be deliberately detected by your psychics and mutants. That way, Bradford will be forced to move the Omegas or release them early which will only increase the number of witnesses.

Regardless of which way you run things, I will always have a back-up plan in mind.

Considering the nature of the facility I think it is safe to say every patrol throughout the facility does in fact have a dog boy present. That would include every level of the facility. You on the other seem to asume anyone who knows of the omegas has access to them and knows wher eint eh facilityt hey are. That is wrong. The actual location of hte Omegas is probably known to a few at best. Doesnt mean no one patrols the area. In ral life mane scientist worked onteh Nuclear Bomb but they had bno idea where the testing and creation of the bombs was going on, for all they knew it was just downt eh hall. They also for the most part didn;t care at the time. Pretty sure Bradford has such a tight reign on things that he woudl make sure only himself and very few if more than 3-4 know what is really going on. Hell for all we know the peopel invovled n the project think its a theoretical project, not one that has been actually out in practical use.

The party that was there, monkey doc included, do NOT have enough intel aside from those files to allow anyone to really do much of anything. I won't even go into the fact these tigns are not that BIG of a threat as a whole once released or the unlikelyhood of the factions invovled ever working to gether in such a manner.

Helston know where that area is. Dr Heston, the monkey doctor.

As I said before, I will just kidnap a CS Military captain, use a Mindolar to bite him, put a camera eye in him and let him record the evidence in Lone Star. QED.

At the same time, maybe let a few Psi-Ghosts be detected spying on Lone Star which will force Bradford to move the monsters which will lead to more witnesses or if he doesn't move them, then my Psi-Ghosts will discover them sooner or later.

Then my brainwashed Captain will just walk in and record the evidence. No problemo.

[jaymz]

As paranoid as the CS is you think they wouldn't be suspicious of a Captain that went missing then showed up again? And you are assuming this particular Captain would be trusted enough to be involved in the op to move the omegas.

I do like the idea of the psi-ghosts though on the more limited scale making the facility get jumpy and having to devcide what to do. A lot more time efficient. Now if you could get the sewer rats on your side as well.....THEY woudl probably be a great help in infiltrating the facility somehow as well.

The only question left is how woudl you get the variosu factins to actually work together on this? FoM is pretty much on thier own since no one woudl really want to work with them. I doubt they;d even work with the Vamps. Lazlo is really threatened all that much by these thigns due to geography. Dweomer while agian part of FoM won;t want anythign to do with this. I doubt Psycape woudl be on board either. How do you get these factions together on a common goal?

To re-iterate though, I have never said this could not be done, just that it woudl be very difficult and improbable to pull off sucessfully. Especially since ht gain really isn't THAT significant in the long run. It woudl actualy be better to someone do a much smaller scale op to get as much intel only and get that intel in Joseph II hands since he can't stand Bradford and would pull no punches in investigating this. Even more so if they can get intel on teh Xiticix Killer as well. both projects are seriously against CS doctrine and Karl woudl be supremely displeased witht eh good Dr Bradford over it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Page 203 in RUE, actually. Under the Invisibility Simple spell, under the NOTE: section: it says that, in the very last line "See the invisible can see both invisbility simple and superior". However, that same section says that invisibility simple may be heard, smelled, and register on motion detectors and similiar electronic devices while Supierior cannot.

If I say I am going to hire some Psi-Ghosts with invisibility and teleportation scrolls to spy in Lone Star, you are probably gonna say you will put dogboys and psychics on every level and in every room. Including the room where the Omegas are.

Well that will just expose the Omegas to more soldiers aka witnesses. Witnesses whom I will just capture and interrogate in front of the various factions.

In fact, I will deliberately hire some Psi-Ghosts to spy on Lone Star and have them be deliberately detected by your psychics and mutants. That way, Bradford will be forced to move the Omegas or release them early which will only increase the number of witnesses.

Regardless of which way you run things, I will always have a back-up plan in mind.

Actually, I was merely correcting your faulty interpretations of Invisibility Superior as being impervious to ANY form of detection. If your going to claim "No matter what you do, i'll think of a way around it", then the argument is pointless, because the pro-CS crowd will always think of a backup around that, ad infintium. Have fun.

[Mercdog]

Hey, just a minor observation, but I don't think that Prof. Roddy knows anything about the omega project. He was key personnel on the cloning of the aishwarra, but nothing he said in the book (admittedly haven't read it in a while,) seemed to suggest that he knew of any projects beyond his own. This would, IMO, be standard practice under Bradford. Each team works on only one part of the puzzle, so none of them see the entire picture. So, much like terrorist cells, even if one team is compromised, the plan can continue with little interruption.

I'd think that the data in the terminal the Lone Star Raiders downloaded it from would be under the same restrictions. It was all data concerning the Alpha-4 (is that right?) project, not the Omegas.

Now this data alone would definitely be enough to get some people riled up enough to start some trouble with the CS, and prod the Emperor into giving Bradford instructions to "come up with something to make them regret @#$@ing with the CS." Little does Prosek know, that Bradford has had just the right project up and running for some time.

If I'm right in assuming that the Omega Beasts are one of Bradford's Black Projects, it would likely not be strictly legal under the laws of the CS. Ah, but if the right circumstances came about...

As for deploying the Omegas, pick an out of the way location with high rift activity, hire a team through a third party that has no idea who they are truly dealing with, and transport some special cargo to the area in a civilian transport. Make sure that the sedation on the omegas won't wear off until the team has dropped them and is well out of range (making sure to take steps to silence them so they don't divulge what little information they have), and the omega beasts become just another creature randomly transported through a rift that preys upon magic. Lucky break for the CS huh?

[V-Origin]

Double Post

[V-Origin]

Hey, just a minor observation, but I don't think that Prof. Roddy knows anything about the omega project. He was key personnel on the cloning of the aishwarra, but nothing he said in the book (admittedly haven't read it in a while,) seemed to suggest that he knew of any projects beyond his own. This would, IMO, be standard practice under Bradford. Each team works on only one part of the puzzle, so none of them see the entire picture. So, much like terrorist cells, even if one team is compromised, the plan can continue with little interruption.

I'd think that the data in the terminal the Lone Star Raiders downloaded it from would be under the same restrictions. It was all data concerning the Alpha-4 (is that right?) project, not the Omegas.

Now this data alone would definitely be enough to get some people riled up enough to start some trouble with the CS, and prod the Emperor into giving Bradford instructions to "come up with something to make them regret @#$@ing with the CS." Little does Prosek know, that Bradford has had just the right project up and running for some time.

If I'm right in assuming that the Omega Beasts are one of Bradford's Black Projects, it would likely not be strictly legal under the laws of the CS. Ah, but if the right circumstances came about...

As for deploying the Omegas, pick an out of the way location with high rift activity, hire a team through a third party that has no idea who they are truly dealing with, and transport some special cargo to the area in a civilian transport. Make sure that the sedation on the omegas won't wear off until the team has dropped them and is well out of range (making sure to take steps to silence them so they don't divulge what little information they have), and the omega beasts become just another creature randomly transported through a rift that preys upon magic. Lucky break for the CS huh?

The data is all genetic data about the Omegas.

This is why an infiltration team is needed to record all the evidence in Lone Star complex.

[V-Origin]

I wasn't trying to be an ass. It was because no one pointed out that page to me in the first place. I checked my sources from Book of Magic and nowhere did it say See the Invisible covers both Invisible Simple and Superior.

You know what, I guess I will just get a Mindolar Slug to bite a kidnapped CS captain, plant a video camera in his eye and let him explore Lone Star. That Video Camera eye will record any evidence of Omegas. Saves me the trouble of creating those thousands of Invisibility and Teleportation scrolls.

And this CS Captain is just gonna walk around Lone Star with a 4 inch long worm attached to a temple on the side of his head? Also remember that everytime the Captain is forced to make a choice he's gonna get confused. Would probably seem mighty suspicious to friends and people that knew him.

He is a damn captain matey. If a captain is not of a high enough rank, kidnap a major or even a colonel then. And his camera is gonna be hidden. Check out the bionics sourcebook.

[V-Origin]

The Psi Ghost thing won’t work as is, because the Ghost has to approach from outside, and the perimeter is where the tightest anti-psionic measures will be placed. Their ability to go insubstantial is a psychic ability, and you can only shield your ISP and psionic potential if you aren’t actually using them. Otherwise the entire point behind the Dog Boys is made moot, as are the Technical specialists: Psionic, and possibly even the Psi Stalkers, though they are more anti magic than anti psionic.

Intangibility isn't a psychic ability. It is a mutant ability.

Psyscape page 63 "The power of intangibility, or "ghosting" as they call it, is not a psionic power, although it requires mental discipline, focus and concentration."

Nowhere in the books did it say that Mask PPE only hides you if you do not use your spells. RUE specifically states that this Mask PPE is used by Mystics to hide their mystical powers which implies that it is used to hide active usage of spells as well.

RUE pg 174 "Mask PPE -Characters who can sense magic energy or see aura will regard this character as having an insignificant amount of P.P.E. This power is especially good as protection against Psi-Stalkers and other P.P.E. vampires. Mystics can easily hide their magical powers through this psionic concealment"

Also, it is entirely possible to shield a room from remote viewing, teleportation, and even phasing by using several methods, the specific method needed depends on the specific method of remote viewing, teleportation or phasing really. Either way, any attempt to use such an ability will trip the psychics in the area off immediately, though it may take them a while to pin point the effect. Their response is likely to be something akin to Astral Projection based location efforts, and then sending out a Death Head or helicopter filled with specially trained and equipped troops, or if its really important, a barrage of medium range missiles, or even a small tactical scale nuclear warhead (read a heavy LRM here.)

How do you shield a room from remote viewing, teleportation and phasing? Where in the books did it say this is even possible? Canon stuff please.

As for the Mindolar thing, these are trained anti supernatural personnel manning this post. They aren’t going to have any chance at all to notice this going on? And the Cyber-ware scanners aren’t going to cross reference the Captains personnel medical file and note the addition of a non registered piece of cybernetics?

No, because there is no technique in the books to show that a Mindolar has possessed the Captain. Until you can show me an ability in the book which shows the CS anti supernatural personnel detecting the a Mindolar presence in the Captain, all your arguments is for naught.

Which means, I can very easily control a Captain using a Mindolar and no CS personnel can spot this control because the CS has no techniques or abilities to unveil this hidden control.

The Cybernetics is a hidden cybernetics camera easily found in the bionics handbook.

Also on a last note, compartmentalization of this information would be standard, and you have only a few names of people in one of the most secure facilities in the world. We do NOT hear of teleportation raids into CS bases anywhere, so it is likely that there is some sort of defense, I would assume it is some sort of technological defense based on the manipulation of dimensional energies, but it could be something so simple as having a certain alien plant present that simply denies teleport efforts. Going after these people in Line Star is a mistake. Instead, wait for them to come out, say to go home for R&R, or to go into the wilds to release something. Then you take them with a sufficiently prepared force of special operatives.

What sort of defense is there to prevent teleportation into the CS bases? Where in the books did you find them? Kindly tell us so that I can use the same teleportation defenses in my city and spaceships.

[V-Origin]

With a damn 4 inch long worm attached to temple on his head, that is the spot right beside the face, someone's gonna get very suspicious.

First of all, that are plenty of other parasites which grant mind control. Parasites which are hidden inside the brain.

Splynn Dimensional Market

Brain Leash - The most efficient means of keeping a disobedient or potentially dangerous slave under control is to have this organism surgically implanted in his brain.

"Capable of completely overriding the mental processes of its host body. Once the organism is implanted, all voluntary muscle responses, including speech, are controlled by it. The organism is "programmed" to obey the words and wishes of any one being, typically the slave's owner or taskmaster. "

Unless you use a Medical X-ray machine, general x-ray machines are only capable of spotting hidden weapons. No x-ray machine is capable of spotting a implanted parasite because the implanted parasite looks like a brain lobe!

If you say the CS have invented such machines capable of spotting and differentiating parasites, I can also have my CAF Scientists invent a nano-chip capable of controlling CS soldiers. But both your parasite-detecting X-ray machines and my nano-chips are NON-CANON.

As for the hidden camera, morelikely than not the security has bio-scans inplace that require them to make sure they are who they really are. A bio-scan would reveal the presence of hidden bionics and cybernetics, if the person in question didn't have that in his record then guess what. He's caught.

As for that cybernetics, it is a simple matter of registering a cyber-eye with the authorities and then modifying the cyber-eye so that it includes a camera function. How easy is that?! That is why it is a concealed cybernetics system.

Again, unless you can provide me with a machine from the books that says it can spot concealed camera cyber-eyes, I can only assume that only cyber-docs are able to differentiate the eyes when they do a medical check-up of the soldier.

Otherwise, there is no point for the Bionics book to provide a concealed camera cyber-eye as it can just as easily be spotted as a regular camera eye.

Also remember that a psi-ghost doesn't turn completely invisible, just hard to see. For not knowing exactly where to go and how to get there, that would be along time to go snooping inside the complex and a stupidly high amount of prowl rolls.

A Psi-Ghost with Mask PPE and Mask ISP to defeat the dog-boys and Psi-stalkers with their ability to sniff out psychic/magic energies.

He uses Invisibility Superior scrolls to evade all the cameras, motion detectors and other surveillance technologies as well as normal sight.

He uses Metamorphosis Superior scrolls to change himself into an insect-sized human. Sure See the Invisible can see the Invisible but can they see a blurry ant-sized human figure on the ceiling?

Does See the Invisible allows you to differentiate between Microscopic objects at a distance?

And with his non-magical, non-psychic, intangibility ability, all he needs to do is to travel along inside the walls and only peeking his head out when he needs to.

Tell me how to catch that without magic! I don't even know how to catch this guy with Magic!

[mobuttu]

Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

It's just a story and not canon to the best of my knowledge.

It is canon matey. Stats have been written for it. There is even a whole book dedicated to it.

I'm pretty sure it is NOT canon. The book was basically printed to make some cash for Palladium, same as the coloring book.

It's canon.

Agreed. It's cannon.

This is how was announced:

Rifts® Machinations of Doom™, Graphic Novel & Sourcebook – Available now. This book could change Rifts® Earth forever. Soft cover.

If it can have an impact on Rifts Earth then it's seems pretty cannon for me.

[mobuttu]

Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

It's just a story and not canon to the best of my knowledge.

It is canon matey. Stats have been written for it. There is even a whole book dedicated to it.

I'm pretty sure it is NOT canon. The book was basically printed to make some cash for Palladium, same as the coloring book.

It's canon.

Agreed. It's cannon.

This is how was announced:

Rifts® Machinations of Doom™, Graphic Novel & Sourcebook – Available now. This book could change Rifts® Earth forever. Soft cover.

(Emphasis is mine) If it can have an impact on Rifts Earth then it's seems pretty cannon for me.

[Dustin Fireblade]

With a damn 4 inch long worm attached to temple on his head, that is the spot right beside the face, someone's gonna get very suspicious.

First of all, that are plenty of other parasites which grant mind control. Parasites which are hidden inside the brain.

Splynn Dimensional Market

Brain Leash - The most efficient means of keeping a disobedient or potentially dangerous slave under control is to have this organism surgically implanted in his brain.

"Capable of completely overriding the mental processes of its host body. Once the organism is implanted, all voluntary muscle responses, including speech, are controlled by it. The organism is "programmed" to obey the words and wishes of any one being, typically the slave's owner or taskmaster. "

Unless you use a Medical X-ray machine, general x-ray machines are only capable of spotting hidden weapons. No x-ray machine is capable of spotting a implanted parasite because the implanted parasite looks like a brain lobe!

If you say the CS have invented such machines capable of spotting and differentiating parasites, I can also have my CAF Scientists invent a nano-chip capable of controlling CS soldiers. But both your parasite-detecting X-ray machines and my nano-chips are NON-CANON.

As for the hidden camera, morelikely than not the security has bio-scans inplace that require them to make sure they are who they really are. A bio-scan would reveal the presence of hidden bionics and cybernetics, if the person in question didn't have that in his record then guess what. He's caught.

As for that cybernetics, it is a simple matter of registering a cyber-eye with the authorities and then modifying the cyber-eye so that it includes a camera function. How easy is that?! That is why it is a concealed cybernetics system.

Again, unless you can provide me with a machine from the books that says it can spot concealed camera cyber-eyes, I can only assume that only cyber-docs are able to differentiate the eyes when they do a medical check-up of the soldier.

Otherwise, there is no point for the Bionics book to provide a concealed camera cyber-eye as it can just as easily be spotted as a regular camera eye.

Also remember that a psi-ghost doesn't turn completely invisible, just hard to see. For not knowing exactly where to go and how to get there, that would be along time to go snooping inside the complex and a stupidly high amount of prowl rolls.

A Psi-Ghost with Mask PPE and Mask ISP to defeat the dog-boys and Psi-stalkers with their ability to sniff out psychic/magic energies.

He uses Invisibility Superior scrolls to evade all the cameras, motion detectors and other surveillance technologies as well as normal sight.

He uses Metamorphosis Superior scrolls to change himself into an insect-sized human. Sure See the Invisible can see the Invisible but can they see a blurry ant-sized human figure on the ceiling?

Does See the Invisible allows you to differentiate between Microscopic objects at a distance?

And with his non-magical, non-psychic, intangibility ability, all he needs to do is to travel along inside the walls and only peeking his head out when he needs to.

Tell me how to catch that without magic! I don't even know how to catch this guy with Magic!

It's funny how the CS enemies seem to know of every single possible resource from Atlantis to the 3 Galaxies....

At any rate, the Brain Leash as you left out in your post completely takes over the person - so they don't act like themselves and it doesn't say that it has access to the knowledge of the host, so I have some doubts on just how effective this is.

Defeating a Psi-Ghost is pretty easy when you have high capacity electrical grids - electrical attacks still do half damage. Eventually the damage will catch up - and recall that the Psi-Ghost can only carry up to 20 lbs with his in order to become intangible.

[jaymz]

Well in Crys' defense the fact Atlantis exists woudl give access to the 3G tech amongst other things.

I still don't think it is likely to succeed BUT with enough planning there is the MINUTE possibility of this being pulled off.

As I said before though, the gain is;t worth the risk involved for this op. It woudl better to turn into an intel op only and get all that info to JP2. He woudl like nothing more than to lock up Bradford and throw away the key....

Now if you want tostart bringing non-canon material in there are many thigns on both sides that eliminate this from ever ocuring or succeeding spectacularily depending on what you want to bring in on which side.

[V-Origin]

It's funny how the CS enemies seem to know of every single possible resource from Atlantis to the 3 Galaxies....

At any rate, the Brain Leash as you left out in your post completely takes over the person - so they don't act like themselves and it doesn't say that it has access to the knowledge of the host, so I have some doubts on just how effective this is.

Well it is just the CS's bad luck that their invasion of Old Tolkeen paved the way for the birth of New Tolkeen - an inter-dimensional mercenary city based in Detroit.

The Brain Leash overrides the mental processes but it doesn't mean that the personality of the victim is erased. "The organism is "programmed" to obey the words and wishes of any one being, typically the slave's owner or taskmaster." This shows that the Brain Leash can be used to order the CS captain to act naturally while spying in Lone Star!

Defeating a Psi-Ghost is pretty easy when you have high capacity electrical grids - electrical attacks still do half damage. Eventually the damage will catch up - and recall that the Psi-Ghost can only carry up to 20 lbs with his in order to become intangible.

Impervious to Energy Scroll will take care of any grids.

And multiple Dimensional Pockets (Temporal Magic) cast on the pockets of the clothing will take care of any excess weight. How much do scrolls weigh anyway?

[V-Origin]

Their phasing power is not an ISP activated ability, so that settles that. I thought it was psionic, and would in fact make it psionic, but by canon he is right. Unfortunately you still can't use an ACTIVE power or spell while doing this, because the character might be "invisible" to detection, but the powers and spells are not. I would argue that totally internal psionics would also be shielded, but ant telepathic effect won't be. In other words if it leaves your aura, is becomes apparent, which is exactly what invisibility does, it encompasses your personnel aura in a field that makes you invisible. Honestly, I would actually go with teh Psi Ghost ability and some sort of Naruni sneak suit of advanced Golden age thermo-optical camouflage type thing, screw teh magic idea, thsi base is literally crawling with detectors for this. I like teh electrical field thing, and have to assume that a Faraday cage would work effectively against the phasing ability, but I have to question if it is reasonable to protect against something as uncommon as a Psi-Ghost is supposed to be? Unless the same technique works against insubstantial effects too, in which case it just became standard.

As far as the anti-teleport items, point to me where teh CS has problems with this? If they don't there has to be a reason, especially after pissing off Tolkeen and their revenge squads. In no why is it inappropriate for the CS to have developed some sort of anti teleport effect with technology (or even specially "modified" mages or psis.) Heck, maybe they station Psi Nulls or Voids around to handle just such a contingency.

And as for ANY method that involves controlling someones mind, it has a decidedly high failure chance, because these people are trained to see their actions as unusual, unlike say a typical world where such a thing goes unnoticed because it isn't supposed to be possible. ANY method will have a chance to trigger someones spider sense, and eventually someone will begin to ask questions. Also, your Captain is the best choice, because a Major or Colonel tends to be around others significantly more often, in fact a 1st LT would be a better choice, assuming he had special clearance, such as a military specialist or commando. Actually, NET-SET personnel would be best, but the hardest to fool.

And finally, I am trying to work form resources teh CS would have. Why are you pulling Phase World level tech, Atlantis, and nearly everything else into this? Who is trying to do this op, Atlantis of the players you mentioned earlier? Specify your "players", and we know what resources they can call upon with ease.

Non-Canon. Anything else, read my previous posts.

[V-Origin]

Brain Leash - The most efficient means of keeping a disobedient or potentially dangerous slave under control is to have this organism surgically implanted in his brain.
"Capable of completely overriding the mental processes of its host body. Once the organism is implanted, all voluntary muscle responses, including speech, are controlled by it. The organism is "programmed" to obey the words and wishes of any one being, typically the slave's owner or taskmaster. "
Unless you use a Medical X-ray machine, general x-ray machines are only capable of spotting hidden weapons. No x-ray machine is capable of spotting a implanted parasite because the implanted parasite looks like a brain lobe!
If you say the CS have invented such machines capable of spotting and differentiating parasites, I can also have my CAF Scientists invent a nano-chip capable of controlling CS soldiers. But both your parasite-detecting X-ray machines and my nano-chips are NON-CANON.

That would be a good idea, except for the fact that the splugorth or some other minion would have to be able to tell the mind controlled person exactly where to go and what to do. Plus it's still mind control, there is still the skills to detect possession and mind control.

Psi-Ghost with Mask PPE and Mask ISP to defeat the dog-boys and Psi-stalkers with their ability to sniff out psychic/magic energies.
He uses Invisibility Superior scrolls to evade all the cameras, motion detectors and other surveillance technologies as well as normal sight.
He uses Metamorphosis Superior scrolls to change himself into an insect-sized human. Sure See the Invisible can see the Invisible but can they see a blurry ant-sized human figure on the ceiling?
Does See the Invisible allows you to differentiate between Microscopic objects at a distance?
And with his non-magical, non-psychic, intangibility ability, all he needs to do is to travel along inside the walls and only peeking his head out when he needs to.
Tell me how to catch that without magic! I don't even know how to catch this guy with Magic!

Even though magic scrolls are suppose to be very rare, this pis-ghost can get hundreds of them? Seriously.....hundreds? Because thats what it would take to roam around the complex considering the spells only last 3 to 10 mins per level. Plus Mask PPE only works for the psi-ghost, not all the magical items they carry, like hundreds of scrolls and Mask PPE only last 10 mins per level also, if your using Mask ISP then how are you gonna keep up with these two powers? Doesn't make sense.

How do you know Mask PPE doesn't cover scrolls? Book and page number please.

Oh btw, when you read a scroll, the PPE energy of the scroll is actually flowing through you before materializing into its intended effects. The act of reading actually manipulate the energies into the intended effect.

That is why it is called "reading a scroll".

[jaymz]

Ok so just because I am going to ask, are we going ot use Canon only or anything goes?

[V-Origin]

Ok so just because I am going to ask, are we going ot use Canon only or anything goes?

Well I have been using Canon stuff so far. Including my thesis on how the scroll works.

[jaymz]

Ok well you seem to interpret Mask PPE differently the majority of us do. I see it has hiding the fact you have alarge pool of PPE thus being a magic user however you start casting spells and it goes out the window. That is how it has been portrayed as well in a couple of short stories in the Rifter as well. However If you interpret it differently thats all well and good but you can't expect everyone to interpret things the way you do.

Te ojnly way to do this right is everyone comes to agreement to how powers work. Otherwise this will end up being a Uh-huh uh-uh arguemnt over each thing each side says somethign can or cannot do.

[Dustin Fireblade]

It's funny how the CS enemies seem to know of every single possible resource from Atlantis to the 3 Galaxies....

At any rate, the Brain Leash as you left out in your post completely takes over the person - so they don't act like themselves and it doesn't say that it has access to the knowledge of the host, so I have some doubts on just how effective this is.

Well it is just the CS's bad luck that their invasion of Old Tolkeen paved the way for the birth of New Tolkeen - an inter-dimensional mercenary city based in Detroit.

The Brain Leash overrides the mental processes but it doesn't mean that the personality of the victim is erased. "The organism is "programmed" to obey the words and wishes of any one being, typically the slave's owner or taskmaster." This shows that the Brain Leash can be used to order the CS captain to act naturally while spying in Lone Star!

Defeating a Psi-Ghost is pretty easy when you have high capacity electrical grids - electrical attacks still do half damage. Eventually the damage will catch up - and recall that the Psi-Ghost can only carry up to 20 lbs with his in order to become intangible.

Impervious to Energy Scroll will take care of any grids.

And multiple Dimensional Pockets (Temporal Magic) cast on the pockets of the clothing will take care of any excess weight. How much do scrolls weigh anyway?

New Tolkeen?? Completely non-canon...

And yeah the Brain Leash "The mind and personality are completely submerged and he becomes very much like a passenger in his own body..." meaning he's pretty much a zombie.

Adding more scrolls and abilities...great.

[V-Origin]

It's funny how the CS enemies seem to know of every single possible resource from Atlantis to the 3 Galaxies....

At any rate, the Brain Leash as you left out in your post completely takes over the person - so they don't act like themselves and it doesn't say that it has access to the knowledge of the host, so I have some doubts on just how effective this is.

Well it is just the CS's bad luck that their invasion of Old Tolkeen paved the way for the birth of New Tolkeen - an inter-dimensional mercenary city based in Detroit.

The Brain Leash overrides the mental processes but it doesn't mean that the personality of the victim is erased. "The organism is "programmed" to obey the words and wishes of any one being, typically the slave's owner or taskmaster." This shows that the Brain Leash can be used to order the CS captain to act naturally while spying in Lone Star!

Defeating a Psi-Ghost is pretty easy when you have high capacity electrical grids - electrical attacks still do half damage. Eventually the damage will catch up - and recall that the Psi-Ghost can only carry up to 20 lbs with his in order to become intangible.

Impervious to Energy Scroll will take care of any grids.

And multiple Dimensional Pockets (Temporal Magic) cast on the pockets of the clothing will take care of any excess weight. How much do scrolls weigh anyway?

New Tolkeen?? Completely non-canon...

And yeah the Brain Leash "The mind and personality are completely submerged and he becomes very much like a passenger in his own body..." meaning he's pretty much a zombie.

Adding more scrolls and abilities...great.

I think we are allowed to start a mercenary organization and city, aren't we? That makes it canon in my books.

[V-Origin]

Ok well you seem to interpret Mask PPE differently the majority of us do. I see it has hiding the fact you have alarge pool of PPE thus being a magic user however you start casting spells and it goes out the window. That is how it has been portrayed as well in a couple of short stories in the Rifter as well. However If you interpret it differently thats all well and good but you can't expect everyone to interpret things the way you do.

Te ojnly way to do this right is everyone comes to agreement to how powers work. Otherwise this will end up being a Uh-huh uh-uh arguemnt over each thing each side says somethign can or cannot do.

Seriously, if you can show me where it said that Mask PPE doesn't cover active usage of spells, I would eat crow's pie.

But please let me remind you that in the official RUE descriptions, the book said Mask PPE covers a Mystics' powers. That implies active spell usage.

[Balabanto]

I just checked RUE ther is NOTHING thats states see the invisible does not work on Invisibilty Superior, only that it prevents normal senses and sesnors from detecting the invisible person. So unless you are talking about a seperate superior invisibiity spell....See the Invisible WILL work.

Unless the psychics, of which there are hundreds, and dog boys , of which are thousands, would never routinely use see the invisible while patrolling, then maybe you are right and these psi ghosts can mystic portal in and never be seen at all.

Please observe the differences between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior and get back to me.

Invisibility Simple - Only being who can naturally, psionically or magically "see the invisible" are able to see invisibility simple.

Invisibility Superior - The target is invisible to all means of detection. Period.

The Psi-Ghosts will be there to do the initial recon work so that the main kidnapping/spying party consisting of various factions will have an easier job.

Except the part where it says clearly that See the Invisible does show invisibility superior, they are at merely -2 penalty to strike for being somewhat blurry.

Book and page number please.

RUE in the spell description does NOT state it is immune to all forms or detection only normal forms of detection such as optics, sensors, smell etc. There is NO mention whatsoever about it also negating see the invisible. Also under the See the Invisible description it states that you can see ALL that are invisible whether they were made to be so or if they are naturally so.

Page 212 for Invisibility and page 176 for See the Invisible.

Also your teleportation scroll if anythign like the spell woudl have to be used by the person that was there, would have to be able to use scrolls (I didn;t think psychics could use them but I am probably wonr on that) AND it isn;t 100% accurate.

Am I sayig it CAN'T be done. No I am sure it is possible however it is improbable. Not to mention they would very little gain from a creature that will initially be a threat but really isn't that BIG of a threat to warrant such a high risk low success rate mission.

Simple Invisibility + Aura of Death + Mystic Invisibility=Totally Shielded from everything. It costs 40 PPE, but so what? That will do what is required. Of course, unless you're a Battle Magus or Combat Mage, you have little chance of pulling this combination off, as most LLWs and other wizards frown on casting the Mystic Invisibility spell.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I think we are allowed to start a mercenary organization and city, aren't we? That makes it canon in my books.

Of course you can.

The problem is you can't pass off your personal campaign as book canon when discussing Rifts here on the message boards. My personal campaign was very different from the books, but you don't see me telling you what the character's have done and passing it as canon. If your New Tolkeen has those resources great, I'll just counter by saying in my game Tolkeen, Kingsdale, Stormspire and New Lazlo were all destroyed so utterly that there were only a handful of survivors as the CS launched their campaign.

We have to stick to the facts as presented in the books as far as existing organizations go when discussing their current capabilities. Of course it's fun to discuss what could happen and how to go about doing it, we just need to make sure we keep it by the book.

Basically I could easily see Lord Dunscon and the Federation of Magic hiring a clan of Psi-Ghosts to infiltrate Lone Star to retrieve information, and possibly providing them with some magic to aid them. I don't see them providing "100's" of different spell scrolls, or using 3 Galaxy level technology or resources in that aid though.

[Subjugator]

Nowhere in the books did it say that Mask PPE only hides you if you do not use your spells. RUE specifically states that this Mask PPE is used by Mystics to hide their mystical powers which implies that it is used to hide active usage of spells as well.

RUE pg 174 "Mask PPE -Characters who can sense magic energy or see aura will regard this character as having an insignificant amount of P.P.E. This power is especially good as protection against Psi-Stalkers and other P.P.E. vampires. Mystics can easily hide their magical powers through this psionic concealment"

Where on earth did you get the idea that it hides the USE of magic powers? Yes, it hides their powers. It doesn't say it hides their spells.

/Sub

[Subjugator]

The Brain Leash overrides the mental processes but it doesn't mean that the personality of the victim is erased. "The organism is "programmed" to obey the words and wishes of any one being, typically the slave's owner or taskmaster." This shows that the Brain Leash can be used to order the CS captain to act naturally while spying in Lone Star!

...unless he gets orders from someone else (say, a superior officer), particularly if they're contrary to his existing orders.

/Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

Ok well you seem to interpret Mask PPE differently the majority of us do. I see it has hiding the fact you have alarge pool of PPE thus being a magic user however you start casting spells and it goes out the window. That is how it has been portrayed as well in a couple of short stories in the Rifter as well. However If you interpret it differently thats all well and good but you can't expect everyone to interpret things the way you do.

Te ojnly way to do this right is everyone comes to agreement to how powers work. Otherwise this will end up being a Uh-huh uh-uh arguemnt over each thing each side says somethign can or cannot do.

Seriously, if you can show me where it said that Mask PPE doesn't cover active usage of spells, I would eat crow's pie.

But please let me remind you that in the official RUE descriptions, the book said Mask PPE covers a Mystics' powers. That implies active spell usage.

No, it implys it makes them not show up as a spellcaster, which they would nomrally. Book and page number for where it covers active spells, you made THAT part up completely on your own.

[jaymz]

Ok well you seem to interpret Mask PPE differently the majority of us do. I see it has hiding the fact you have alarge pool of PPE thus being a magic user however you start casting spells and it goes out the window. That is how it has been portrayed as well in a couple of short stories in the Rifter as well. However If you interpret it differently thats all well and good but you can't expect everyone to interpret things the way you do.

Te ojnly way to do this right is everyone comes to agreement to how powers work. Otherwise this will end up being a Uh-huh uh-uh arguemnt over each thing each side says somethign can or cannot do.

Seriously, if you can show me where it said that Mask PPE doesn't cover active usage of spells, I would eat crow's pie.

But please let me remind you that in the official RUE descriptions, the book said Mask PPE covers a Mystics' powers. That implies active spell usage.

I treat it the same way I treat Mask ISP Psionics. You cannot use your powers it only hides the fact you have them. Same page as mask isp in RUE. Just because it doesnt say you cannot cast spells doesn't mean you can. IMO it shoudl be the same as Mask ISP only for magic. You interpret it different thats your choice but unless some actually makes i clear niether way is canon or non canon.

[V-Origin]

I think something should be made clear here.

When using Mask ISP you are actually using a psychic power to suppress your ISP by cutting yourself off from the psychic world. Which means you can't use most psychic powers.

However, when using Mask PPE you are using a psychic power to mask your PPE, it does not say anything about cutting yourself off from the magic world or even suppressing your PPE.

To me when Mask PPE says it masks a mystic powers, it is saying that it hides a mystic when he is using his powers including active spell usage. To interpret things in any other manner is simply making a mockery of Mask PPE.

Making a mockery of the sentence "Mystics can easily hide their magical powers through this psionic concealment"

[V-Origin]

Nowhere in the books did it say that Mask PPE only hides you if you do not use your spells. RUE specifically states that this Mask PPE is used by Mystics to hide their mystical powers which implies that it is used to hide active usage of spells as well.

RUE pg 174 "Mask PPE -Characters who can sense magic energy or see aura will regard this character as having an insignificant amount of P.P.E. This power is especially good as protection against Psi-Stalkers and other P.P.E. vampires. Mystics can easily hide their magical powers through this psionic concealment"

Where on earth did you get the idea that it hides the USE of magic powers? Yes, it hides their powers. It doesn't say it hides their spells.

/Sub

Refer to RUE. Mystics' powers includes the casting of spells. To say that the casting of spells is not part of the Mystic's powers is simply ridiculous.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I think something should be made clear here.

When using Mask ISP you are actually using a psychic power to suppress your ISP by cutting yourself off from the psychic world. Which means you can't use most psychic powers.

However, when using Mask PPE you are using a psychic power to mask your PPE, it does not say anything about cutting yourself off from the magic world or even suppressing your PPE.

To me when Mask PPE says it masks a mystic powers, it is saying that it hides a mystic when he is using his powers including active spell usage. To interpret things in any other manner is simply making a mockery of Mask PPE.

Making a mockery of the sentence "Mystics can easily hide their magical powers through this psionic concealment"

It says "Mask ISP and Psionics" and as you stated it prevents psi powers from being used.

"Mask PPE" only hides PPE - it doesn't hide it when you cast a spell, ie "Mask PPE and Magic Spells". In this case the "power" is the PPE.

I suppose if one really wants to interpret it the same as Mask ISP then the mage has made a mental block against accessing his own PPE, and as long as the power is in place he can't cast spells of any kind.

Basically the Mask PPE is simply used to hide the PPE and get past a CS style checkpoint. If the mage is stupid enough to use their powers then they get what's coming to them.