Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
It's often been said that Heroes Unlimited is a thinking person's game. There's something to be said for a mix of skill, abilities and quick out-of-the-box thinking to defeat a foe and save the day. But after watching Doctor Who regularly again, I have to respect the player who wants to play a character that isn't going for the biggest damage rolls and modifiers, instead wishing to use their wits as their greatest weapons and tools. But when you have characters like a Blhaze Alien as a teammate, or others that can bring heavy ordnance and skills with weapons to the team, what kinds of edges, advantages, tools, etc. do you or would you allow for characters like the Analytic Genius, or Natural Genius classes? At least the Analytic version can work with nanotech and modify armors. Natural Geniuses have the ability to have ALL skills surpass the 98% cap, but don't have a lot in the way of available gear.
What do you think would be fair to balance them out? Special armor, force field generators, super ability replicating gadgets, perhaps an equivalent of a multi-tool a certain time traveling Doctor uses that emits sound for a variety of effects? As someone who eventually wishes to play a Natural Genius as well as am GM for a Century Station game where one character wishes to play a Natural Genius, what do you think is fair to allow these savants to stand shoulder to shoulder when fighting alongside or facing Mega Heroes/Villains? I'm thinking of letting my friend's PC come up with the plans to create something I'm coming up with I call the Intrinsic Field Oscillator, a tool that could be the equivalent and more of a Sonic Screwdriver(no conversions posted here please). I'm thinking of letting it manipulate to a small degree the field effecting matter and energy to slow down/cool the molecules of an item, or speed up/heat them, can magnetize items, can temporarily harden a substance like the Indestructibility power, perhaps even duplicate other effects like the Air Densifier from Fabricators Inc. with one twist: due to the nature of matter, energy and Intrinsic Fields, it can only effect inorganic material, or deceased organics like rope, leather, fruit, etc. I thought it would be interesting if it could be a tool for all occasions, but cannot harm a living being due to a feedback effect built into the device.
That's one idea I'm working on. What would or do you allow your geniuses to have access to in order to let them show that problems don't always require powers or high damage rolls to solve them?
What do you think would be fair to balance them out? Special armor, force field generators, super ability replicating gadgets, perhaps an equivalent of a multi-tool a certain time traveling Doctor uses that emits sound for a variety of effects? As someone who eventually wishes to play a Natural Genius as well as am GM for a Century Station game where one character wishes to play a Natural Genius, what do you think is fair to allow these savants to stand shoulder to shoulder when fighting alongside or facing Mega Heroes/Villains? I'm thinking of letting my friend's PC come up with the plans to create something I'm coming up with I call the Intrinsic Field Oscillator, a tool that could be the equivalent and more of a Sonic Screwdriver(no conversions posted here please). I'm thinking of letting it manipulate to a small degree the field effecting matter and energy to slow down/cool the molecules of an item, or speed up/heat them, can magnetize items, can temporarily harden a substance like the Indestructibility power, perhaps even duplicate other effects like the Air Densifier from Fabricators Inc. with one twist: due to the nature of matter, energy and Intrinsic Fields, it can only effect inorganic material, or deceased organics like rope, leather, fruit, etc. I thought it would be interesting if it could be a tool for all occasions, but cannot harm a living being due to a feedback effect built into the device.
That's one idea I'm working on. What would or do you allow your geniuses to have access to in order to let them show that problems don't always require powers or high damage rolls to solve them?
Bob Herzog from KoDT put it best: HOODY HOO! http://www.facebook.com/manyfacesofdave
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
a cool set of goggles or bionic eyes that are able to see in different fields of vision, Xray would be usefull, so would heat vision or see the invisible.
or an anylitical genius partner that will only make non destructive inventions. like a super invention that only creates portals, or the minor ability of doorway, or that instant weapon power.
some minor cybernetic enhancements that might make the difference, a motion detector, a cybernetic arm, cyber armor, enhanced hearing, finger laser etc.
a universal head jack would be cool. a little needle comes out of the finger and he's able to upload data or hack systems with his mind.
or chose one of the special skills from another special training or hardware class in place of one of the abilities that come with the power category. The sharpshooting and trick shooting from the hardware weapons class wouls come in handy, or some sort of fencing or archery from the weapons master, or magical knowlage and lore without knowing how to cast spells
or an anylitical genius partner that will only make non destructive inventions. like a super invention that only creates portals, or the minor ability of doorway, or that instant weapon power.
some minor cybernetic enhancements that might make the difference, a motion detector, a cybernetic arm, cyber armor, enhanced hearing, finger laser etc.
a universal head jack would be cool. a little needle comes out of the finger and he's able to upload data or hack systems with his mind.
or chose one of the special skills from another special training or hardware class in place of one of the abilities that come with the power category. The sharpshooting and trick shooting from the hardware weapons class wouls come in handy, or some sort of fencing or archery from the weapons master, or magical knowlage and lore without knowing how to cast spells
- Severus Snape
- Hero
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:46 pm
- Comment: You ought to be careful. People will think you're....up....to something.
- Location: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft & Wizardry
- Contact:
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
I like where you are going with this topic, DtMK. The "minor" heroes (Analytical/Natural Genius, Super Sleuth, etc.) don't seem to stack up all that well against the more typical heroes such as Aliens or Mutants. Even the Stage Magician recently got an overhaul, and I have to say that now the SM is more playable in your standard campaigns. But what to do with the others?
As you pointed out, the Analytical Genius can work with armors and nanotechnology. For these reasons, I'd allow the Analytical Genius to potentially start out with a suit of powered armor or a few bionic implants. I wouldn't allow them to have the top budget available at the start - that would diminish the playability of robots or bionics characters (who'd want to be just a robot when you could be a robot AND be super smart too?). I think I'd allow the minimum budget at the start of the game should the player want to go either of these routes, and give them the option over time to come across new materials or weapons to modify what they started with (provided they have the time, cash, and space, which in the campaigns I'm in almost never happens).
Another thing I might allow depending on the character background and the player's ability to convince me is to let the AG/NG to have some sort of super invention at the start, but with only 2 minor abilities of the player's choosing (and with my approval). This device would NOT be able to be modified later on, but I may allow for them to build a new device later in the game with the same caveat as working on the armor I mentioned above. I know that 2 minors don't normally strike fear into anybody's hearts, but there are some combinations that definitely work well together.
The thing that you don't want to happen is to combine the AG/NG with another hero type so that nobody no longer wants to be just an experiment or just a super inventor. Dual-Classing (for lack of a better term) is a tricky business in HU, and it can sometimes lead to power gaming and overbalancing. I have players and GM's that I've spoken to who absolutely under no circumstances allow it to happen, and I know some that do. It's all in how the character is designed and developed, who the player is, and the gaming style of the group. It can be done, and it can be done very well. The best example I've ever personally seen was a Super Sleuth who was allowed to "find" a super invention that enhanced his ability to find clues and solve crimes. Yes, it allowed him to stay in fights longer, but it didn't unbalance the game.
Finally, I say that no matter what you do, if the group is having fun then go for it. Cuz having fun is really why we all play, right?
As you pointed out, the Analytical Genius can work with armors and nanotechnology. For these reasons, I'd allow the Analytical Genius to potentially start out with a suit of powered armor or a few bionic implants. I wouldn't allow them to have the top budget available at the start - that would diminish the playability of robots or bionics characters (who'd want to be just a robot when you could be a robot AND be super smart too?). I think I'd allow the minimum budget at the start of the game should the player want to go either of these routes, and give them the option over time to come across new materials or weapons to modify what they started with (provided they have the time, cash, and space, which in the campaigns I'm in almost never happens).
Another thing I might allow depending on the character background and the player's ability to convince me is to let the AG/NG to have some sort of super invention at the start, but with only 2 minor abilities of the player's choosing (and with my approval). This device would NOT be able to be modified later on, but I may allow for them to build a new device later in the game with the same caveat as working on the armor I mentioned above. I know that 2 minors don't normally strike fear into anybody's hearts, but there are some combinations that definitely work well together.
The thing that you don't want to happen is to combine the AG/NG with another hero type so that nobody no longer wants to be just an experiment or just a super inventor. Dual-Classing (for lack of a better term) is a tricky business in HU, and it can sometimes lead to power gaming and overbalancing. I have players and GM's that I've spoken to who absolutely under no circumstances allow it to happen, and I know some that do. It's all in how the character is designed and developed, who the player is, and the gaming style of the group. It can be done, and it can be done very well. The best example I've ever personally seen was a Super Sleuth who was allowed to "find" a super invention that enhanced his ability to find clues and solve crimes. Yes, it allowed him to stay in fights longer, but it didn't unbalance the game.
Finally, I say that no matter what you do, if the group is having fun then go for it. Cuz having fun is really why we all play, right?
- novatomato
- Wanderer
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:00 am
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
If you're worried about him being unable to compete in the fights then I would consider letting him take a martial art from ninjas and superspies. There are a couple good ones in Rifter #7.
- Cybermancer
- Hero
- Posts: 1473
- Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:50 pm
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
Playing a genius character of any sort who makes his own exo-suit can be a lot of fun.
That having been said, with a little imagination and cooperation, a genius doesn't have to be a heavy hitter to keep up with the mega-heroes of the group. Or even surpass them in question.
The first step to letting this happen is to let it happen. Let that crazy plan that couldn't possibly work have a chance of working. Let them come up with strange science ideas as solutions to problems they're facing.
Movies can be a valuable resource as well. Even if the stunts they pull couldn't possibly work in the real world, let it work for the genius.
Aliens Unlimited and the Galaxy Guide are both excellent resources for tech ideas and gadgets. Some of the older TMNT books have some nifty things as does After the Bomb. If you can find them, I would suggest taking a gander at TMNT Down Under, TMNT Yucatun, TMNT Transdimensional, TMNT Guide to the Galaxy and TMNT Adventures. Lots of weird science to exploit.
That having been said, with a little imagination and cooperation, a genius doesn't have to be a heavy hitter to keep up with the mega-heroes of the group. Or even surpass them in question.
The first step to letting this happen is to let it happen. Let that crazy plan that couldn't possibly work have a chance of working. Let them come up with strange science ideas as solutions to problems they're facing.
Movies can be a valuable resource as well. Even if the stunts they pull couldn't possibly work in the real world, let it work for the genius.
Aliens Unlimited and the Galaxy Guide are both excellent resources for tech ideas and gadgets. Some of the older TMNT books have some nifty things as does After the Bomb. If you can find them, I would suggest taking a gander at TMNT Down Under, TMNT Yucatun, TMNT Transdimensional, TMNT Guide to the Galaxy and TMNT Adventures. Lots of weird science to exploit.
I was raised to beleive if you can't say something nice about a person, say nothing at all. This has led to living a very quiet life.
Someone who tells you what to think is trying to control you. Someone who teaches you how to think is trying to free you.
WWVLD?
Someone who tells you what to think is trying to control you. Someone who teaches you how to think is trying to free you.
WWVLD?
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
Thanks for the suggestions all, the PC in my game is now playing a Natural genius with a well thought out origin. The character has a bionic hand and a tendency to turn teddy bears into robotic death machines with snapping jaws and a flamethrower in their mouths. This should be fun to see where she goes with it, and I'm more than willing to let someone using their wits try something that may seem nuts. Heck, I have to hold myself back from letting too many ideas of my own slip through because I want to play a genius some time as well!
Bob Herzog from KoDT put it best: HOODY HOO! http://www.facebook.com/manyfacesofdave
- The Artist Formerly
- Champion
- Posts: 2556
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2000 2:01 am
- Comment: Time Magazine's person of the year, 2006.
- Location: High in the Tower of Yellow, Swanky town.
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
How about something along the lines of this?
And while Tony Stark would be the poster boy for a character you could patten a PC after, but not convert because that would be against the board's rules, their are tons of characters out there in popular fiction who have a little bit of physical skills and a bunch of cool hardware ideas that they turn into super hero/super villian persona tech. All of those characters could provide sources for inspiration. Spider-man has a half dozen of those kinds of mad-scientists types among his arch-rivals while Superman's greatest foe is a normal guy who gets by on his brains alone. So it's certainly possible for such characters to compete on the same level as the uber-powerful builds as well.
I would argue in fact, that the analitical genius is not only the most efficent power catagory in the game, it's also easily the most powerful.
And while Tony Stark would be the poster boy for a character you could patten a PC after, but not convert because that would be against the board's rules, their are tons of characters out there in popular fiction who have a little bit of physical skills and a bunch of cool hardware ideas that they turn into super hero/super villian persona tech. All of those characters could provide sources for inspiration. Spider-man has a half dozen of those kinds of mad-scientists types among his arch-rivals while Superman's greatest foe is a normal guy who gets by on his brains alone. So it's certainly possible for such characters to compete on the same level as the uber-powerful builds as well.
I would argue in fact, that the analitical genius is not only the most efficent power catagory in the game, it's also easily the most powerful.
When I look in the dictionary and see the word Cool...I see Taffy's picture...-Shady Slug
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
- wolfsgrin
- Adventurer
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 12:14 pm
- Location: Joplin, Mo: Cenobite country
- Contact:
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
You could give them a private security force or gadgets are nice. These guys always seem to have some kind of device that may even drive a plot, and once conflict is resolved the device was either destroyed or lost or something along the lines that it may never get used again. of course thats a temporary fix. With the NG, i may reduce the time or number of attacks for an ability to be used. I even made up a few new abilities to help round out an NG in a mega hero type setting. With an AG, the modded armor has a lot of potential. Super Inventions are nice to add to the armor, but i like to let those start at level one and they can work on it with every new level to see if they can increase the level for the invention. Robotic minions! Woot! He could try to give himself super abilities though it should come with a heavy cost (money, mind, spirit) or at least a high percentage chance of dieing, disfigurement, alignment shifts.....and still not have abilities. lol It all just depends on power levels. If you're running Century Station, almost anything could go really. It can get pretty ridiculous on that level. Just start adding stuff with game balance in mind and you would still be within reason and not overpowering like most of the book is. And ask yourself: is it going to be fun to play and run?
Personally I think robotic mnions of different shapes and sizes and function would be aewesome. In fact I will be working one up.
Oh! Eugenics, with a small budget you could definitely increase the survivability of an NG/AG in a powerfull setting.
Could make them alien with natural abilities as well.
Wow. I'm all over the place. Sorry at work and little fried at the moment. hahaha
Personally I think robotic mnions of different shapes and sizes and function would be aewesome. In fact I will be working one up.
Oh! Eugenics, with a small budget you could definitely increase the survivability of an NG/AG in a powerfull setting.
Could make them alien with natural abilities as well.
Wow. I'm all over the place. Sorry at work and little fried at the moment. hahaha
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
Warlawk wrote:The Artist Formerly wrote:I would argue in fact, that the analitical genius is not only the most efficent power catagory in the game, it's also easily the most powerful.
This.
It is commonly accepted in our group that the natural genius is so good as to be broken (for our gaming style). Analytical is very very good as well, just doesn't have as many tricks in the toolbox.
Course, we tend to play mid power range (no invulnerability, aps plasma etc) with a very heavy focus on skill use. We've had many a HU session with hundreds of skill checks at the table, but not a single combat dice thrown.
That is very rare.
Re: Leeway for Analytic/Natural Genius characters
In my own games, people that try to out-think the situations and not just stack up for dice damage and modifiers are a little harder to sell. But thankfully a trend is growing, especially thanks to watching Doctor Who and seeing that the smart characters can figure out puzzles and not just punch or shoot them.
Bob Herzog from KoDT put it best: HOODY HOO! http://www.facebook.com/manyfacesofdave