Macross sourcebook errata

[ESalter]

I think I have found a few mistakes that haven't been listed yet.

The book's idea of "Marines" seems confused. In the listings of the SDF-1's mecha, "Marine" mecha are stationed on board both the SDF-1 proper (i.e., they are "Space Marines") and the Daedalus naval landing ship, the latter force including helicopters (i.e., they really are "marines").

The use of the VEF-1 is described inconsistently throughout the book. Its own description says it's rare, but the rest of the book indicates it replaced the Stalker.
The description of the VEF-1's jamming pods is odd. It mentions "fuselage mounted hardpoint[s]," which Valkyries don't have. I'd guess the phrase "one on each fuselage mounted hardpoint just aft of the intakes" is the result of a pasting error from the Stalker entry, and the VEF-1 should have three jamming pods.

The Dragon has a cannon on either side.

The Stalker's entry is unclear on how many jamming pods it has. It lists six, but the count it gives afterwards only goes up to four. It's possible the bay jammer counts as two, but that's only a guess.

The Comanchero's missile pods have ten missiles each.

If that rectangular shape directly behind the pilot's seat is the forward window, the Sea Sergeant's machine-gun mounts are awfully awkwardly placed. The gunners will be occupying almost the same space as the pilots, close enough for them to interfere with each other.
FWIW, IIRC, in the animation the Sea Sergeant's torpedoes are rocket propelled. That might not match the animation sheet, however.

The Cat's Eye's engines seem very small compared to the rest of the plane. The uRRG says the wing pods are engines; the animation sheet shows a grating at the end of the visible pod, which suggests an exhaust to me. The uRRG's authors claim visual evidence of wing engines, and the Macross Mecha Manual gives a description; but I haven't been able to confirm either.
Also, the number of changes needed to convert a pure aircraft to space use (strength, maneuvering, control, navigation, electronics) make a purpose-built design seem more plausible to me.

The Tunny entry says the front of the aircraft is a huge cargo entry, and its wing-mounted engines use thrust-vectoring to give it VTOL abilities. Now, the wings are positioned awfully far back; wouldn't trying to go straight up push the front of the plane into the ground? Also, there are structures in the front of the plane: what looks like an intake on top and exhausts on the bottom; in addition, there's no seam corresponding to a forward cargo door. I would guess the forward structures are part of the VTOL system; as such, they might interfere with cargo loading from this direction. Perhaps the plane described is an STOL model separate from the VTOL aircraft pictured?

As an attack ship, the Lancer should have anti-ship missiles.

The Ghost has beam weapons in the fluff, but autocannons in the statistics.

The Star Goose doesn't seem to have any place to put cargo doors. I think the UN needs a different shuttle as a troop/cargo transport.

The Nousjadeul-Ger has a "belt pouch" on its right hip.

A Queadluun-Rau picture shows too many missiles in the upper launcher.

The Zentraedi chapter says females are beautiful, intelligent, and restricted to certain jobs while males are ugly, strong, and stupid. This is offensively sexist.

Breetai and Azonia are said to be in separate castes. But if this were true, Azonia would not have been eligible to take over Breetai's assignment.

The description of the SDF-1's fold on page 247 is wrong: the SDF-1 had no trouble getting into space; it folded to escape the Zentraedi.

[ESalter]

I think I have found a few mistakes that haven't been listed yet.

The Tunny entry says the front of the aircraft is a huge cargo entry, and its wing-mounted engines use thrust-vectoring to give it VTOL abilities. Now, the wings are positioned awfully far back; wouldn't trying to go straight up push the front of the plane into the ground? Also, there are structures in the front of the plane: what looks like an intake on top and exhausts on the bottom; in addition, there's no seam corresponding to a forward cargo door. I would guess the forward structures are part of the VTOL system; as such, they might interfere with cargo loading from this direction. Perhaps the plane described is an STOL model separate from the VTOL aircraft pictured?

The intake on the top feeds the thrusters on the bottom, which stabilizes the forward lift section while the wings handle the rest. Thus, for all that it is the size of a C-5 Galaxy, it IS a VTOL unit. Yup, run, run far away from this thing when it lands! As for the forward door, in the series you see one unloading somewhere with its nose up, I think. I can't recall specifically where, so I could be wrong, I think it was when the SDF was resupplying after its return.

The plane in question was an oversized Stalker; presumably an animation error.

A Queadluun-Rau picture shows too many missiles in the upper launcher.

Which one? The one next to teh mecha has four 21 tube launchers depicted. What page is this?

Page 183, bottom. The upper launcher has 24 missiles.

Breetai and Azonia are said to be in separate castes. But if this were true, Azonia would not have been eligible to take over Breetai's assignment.

That's an easy one, Azonia is assigned to take over a mission Breetai was assigned, but Breetai was way too far up the chain to handle this mission normally. He would normally be in charge of advancing the Masters concerns on an entire sector or two, while Azonia would handle a part of that sector. Khyron would normally be tasked to a single system or planet, and even then normally only as a trouble shooter unit as befitting his "unique" status as an effective troublemaker. The unusual level of importance bestowed upon the SDF-1 was such that a higher up was pulled to handle tracking it down and retrieving it, and when that higher up was seen to potentially be screwing up, he was recalled to chat with high command, and Azonia, the nearest high ranking commander to this backwater called the Sol system was sent in to handle the task until he got back, specifically with orders to hold back to a large degree, at least until she fully understood what was happening. In addition, female commands are labeled as a sort of special forces type troop, so even though a male commander equal to Azonia might not have been considered for this role, Azonia and her special troops pulled significantly greater clout. Alternatively, instead of being in a backwater, Azonia and her command might have been specially tasked out form the core regions to step in and see if they could handle it while Breetai was going back to get his tail chewed for perceived screw-ups he might have made. Khyron is still a wild card to these theories though. He really shouldn't have been in charge of an Ice Cream truck with his attitude, but he was uncommonly good at out of the box thinking, something that is considered exceedingly rare even for command rank Zentreadi.

If I understand you correctly, your argument is basically that Breetai and Azonia weren't really doing the same job. That would explain a lot; however, I do wonder about the scene in which Dolza and Breetai discuss Azonia's failures. If "High Lord" and "Warlord" are truly separate castes, I would think Azonia's failure to do a High Lord's job would go without saying, and the discussion would focus on whether Breetai or another High Lord should be put in charge. Admittedly, their discussion about Azonia's "inexperience" may have been their oblique way of doing just that.

[jedi078]

I think I have found a few mistakes that haven't been listed yet.

Welcome to the club.

The use of the VEF-1 is described inconsistently throughout the book. Its own description says it's rare, but the rest of the book indicates it replaced the Stalker.
The description of the VEF-1's jamming pods is odd. It mentions "fuselage mounted hardpoint[s]," which Valkyries don't have. I'd guess the phrase "one on each fuselage mounted hardpoint just aft of the intakes" is the result of a pasting error from the Stalker entry, and the VEF-1 should have three jamming pods.

The "fuselage mounted hardpoint[s]" are probably the leg FAST/sensor packs.

Anyhow I tend to treat all VF-1's the same, the only REAL difference is the nose/head section, which differentiate the different type through the use of different avionics and whether or not it is a two seat or single seat cockpit. Besides this ‘modular’ concept is one way the UEG can produce so many VF-1’s.

The Dragon has a cannon on either side.

You may be right, but I don’t use the crappy dated 1980’s aircraft simply because it is absurd to think that weapons development would stop in the 1980’s. In fact with the advent of the Global Civil War weapons development/tech would be several five (or even 10) years ahead of our RL universe in 1999.

Instead most of the aircraft you will see in my games are 4.5 generation fighters as opposed to the 4th generation fighters as presented in the books. Granted quite a few 4th generation fighters are still in used but have been upgraded with 4.5 and 5th generation avionics. In fact due to its airframe, the VF-1 would fall into this category, as it has no stealth properties what so ever.

The Comanchero's missile pods have ten missiles each.

The 70mm rockets fired by those pods appear to be based upon the RL Hydra rocket, and there are two types of pods available, a seven tube version and a 19 tube version.

The Tunny entry says the front of the aircraft is a huge cargo entry, and its wing-mounted engines use thrust-vectoring to give it VTOL abilities. Now, the wings are positioned awfully far back; wouldn't trying to go straight up push the front of the plane into the ground? Also, there are structures in the front of the plane: what looks like an intake on top and exhausts on the bottom; in addition, there's no seam corresponding to a forward cargo door. I would guess the forward structures are part of the VTOL system; as such, they might interfere with cargo loading from this direction. Perhaps the plane described is an STOL model separate from the VTOL aircraft pictured?

Again I don’t use the crappy dated 1980’s aircraft, instead C-5’s, and C-17’s are used. Although the idea of the Tunny being a STOVL has merit and thus possibly has a place in my games.

The Zentraedi chapter says females are beautiful, intelligent, and restricted to certain jobs while males are ugly, strong, and stupid. This is offensively sexist.

Yep it is sexist, just like there is different body armor for each sex in the Masters and New Gen eras. In real life well endowed female Soldiers and Marines wear body armor one size larger then they actually are.

As for the Zentraedi, we do see Azonia giving orders to a male Zentraedi on board her own warship, and a few males can be seen tending to Miryia's Q-Rau. So it can be perceived that female Zentraedi are almost always arrogant towards males, mainly as a way for them to be perceived as superior to those Males that serve on their warships. But this is a culture issue.

Breetai and Azonia are said to be in separate castes. But if this were true, Azonia would not have been eligible to take over Breetai's assignment.

IMO both are “High Lord’ Zentraedi. Azonia simply commands a smaller fleet. I also consider Khyron to be a “Warlord” who has worked his way up from being a simple platoon leader to a position reserved normally for “High Lord’s.”

[ESalter]

As for the Zentraedi, we do see Azonia giving orders to a male Zentraedi on board her own warship, and a few males can be seen tending to Miryia's Q-Rau. So it can be perceived that female Zentraedi are almost always arrogant towards males, mainly as a way for them to be perceived as superior to those Males that serve on their warships. But this is a culture issue.

FWIW, I consider mixed-crew Zentraedi ships a big mistake. They violate the show's thematic and narrative integrity just to rationalize a couple of lines said in passing.

[jaymz]

Well in regards to the aircraft, the problem is the show was made in the 80's thus what was shown could very well have been considered 4.5-5th gen fighter craft. Same goes with much of the cargo craft as well. Myself I just make a reason as to why these craft exist and also incorporate the newer craft (F-22, F-35, Typhoon, etc) into the game. Also keep in mind eventoda the vast majority of mainline fighter craftare not 4.5 or 5th gen. They are in fact 4th gen. TheUS is probably the only nation with a large amount of active 4.5 and 5th gen aircraft in it's inventory at all.

[jedi078]

You may be right, but I don’t use the crappy dated 1980’s aircraft simply because it is absurd to think that weapons development would stop in the 1980’s. In fact with the advent of the Global Civil War weapons development/tech would be several five (or even 10) years ahead of our RL universe in 1999.

Instead most of the aircraft you will see in my games are 4.5 generation fighters as opposed to the 4th generation fighters as presented in the books. Granted quite a few 4th generation fighters are still in used but have been upgraded with 4.5 and 5th generation avionics. In fact due to its airframe, the VF-1 would fall into this category, as it has no stealth properties what so ever.

The thing is Jedi, the cartoon doesn't show what funky cool avionics or alloys, or ballistics cloth, or weapons technology that had been developed during the global civil war. What it *did* show was the physical look of the equipment and how it doesn't look anything like current military tech. Why would it be so hard to conceptualise and project modern avionic advances into the airframes shown in the cartoon? Why can't the Falcon (if it's still called that in the 2nd Edition) be a 4th, 4.5 or even Robotech-era 5th generation fighter?

The Falcon/Dragon is by 1999 a 4th gen fighter and by 2009 a 4.5 gen fighter, like the F-15SE Silent Eagle.

But the idea of the Dragon or VF-1 being considered a 5th gn fighter is absurd because neither craft has an stealth aspect whatsoever despite the fact they may or may not have advance avionics.

In the end I personally think RL aircraft designs have better merit over those presented in the books. Plus it allows me to have more diversity in my games.

As for the Zentraedi, we do see Azonia giving orders to a male Zentraedi on board her own warship, and a few males can be seen tending to Miryia's Q-Rau. So it can be perceived that female Zentraedi are almost always arrogant towards males, mainly as a way for them to be perceived as superior to those Males that serve on their warships. But this is a culture issue.

FWIW, I consider mixed-crew Zentraedi ships a big mistake. They violate the show's thematic and narrative integrity just to rationalize a couple of lines said in passing.

Yeah that’s one way to look at it.

[jedi078]

My biggest concern with integrating 4.5/5th Gen fighters is that their superior stealth characteristics mean that many would actually be better craft than what we see in the Robotech setting.

Well they are...and that is the reason for using them. But veritechs still have a niche to fill.

The way I got around the use of advanced stealth techniques is to make it clear that all alien radar systems are largely immune to its effects, and the techniques they use to garner this immunity carried over to most of the combat VF and aerospace craft of the time. That's why we see no effort to duplicate modern stealth effects in the various settings, they basically wouldn't have worked against nearly anyone, not even bandits and EBSIS forces, because the various groups get a hold of various sensor systems with the proper techniques built in to ignore it, so why even bother? Shadow changes this by actively rendering a fighter invisible, so their is nothing a modern sensor can attempt to interpret to edit out a stealth effect.

The reason we don’t see any effort to duplicate modern stealth effects in the various settings because they were created 25 years ago when stealth was a relative unknown.

After all, if I don't do something, someone will simply ask why they can't either A) take an F-22 into combat and sneak up on the enemy, or B) redesign a VF or fighter to be a true stealth platform, neither of which is ideal.

Why would taking an F-22 into combat be non-ideal? Wouldn’t you want to snuff out enemy air units before they see/detect you? I know I would.

As for designing a veritech with stealth capabilities use the VF-19 or VF-22 from Macross if you really want them. I do until the advent of VF-4’s fitted with shadow cloaking devices.

Also don’t forget Veritechs fill the niche of aerial mecha infantry. While a flight of Panavia Tornado ADV’s can support a Destriod platoon they are not able to land and flank a force of enemy mecha like a flight of VF-1’s can.

A squadron of F-22’s will be able to take out the weapons emplacements on a Zentraedi cruiser flying in the atmosphere, but unless they are packing nukes (fat chance they'll be used in atmo over/near a population center) they won’t be able to bring the sucker down. But yet a squadron of veritechs will be able to board said Zentraedi warship.

In space stealth is all about hiding one’s heat source, so ‘stealth space fighters’ will require extensive hear masking systems. But yet you may still need vertiechs/battloids to storm the insides of Zentraedi warships, Robotech Master Mother ships and Invid Space Hives.

[avollant]

I've notice something about the Cat's Eye recon plane... This guy, Macross, viewtopic.php?f=9&t=96839&hilit=cat%27s+eye&start=50#p1884148 also noticed it but got no answer so far.

So, is it 2 crew member or 5? Personally, I would go for two. So what is the official stand of Palladium Books over this issue?

[jedi078]

I've notice something about the Cat's Eye recon plane... This guy, Macross, viewtopic.php?f=9&t=96839&hilit=cat%27s+eye&start=50#p1884148 also noticed it but got no answer so far.

So, is it 2 crew member or 5? Personally, I would go for two. So what is the official stand of Palladium Books over this issue?

Per the actual cartoon it is two. Otherwise Lisa would have been worried about the other three crewmen instead of just the pilot.

[ShadowLogan]

I've notice something about the Cat's Eye recon plane... This guy, Macross, viewtopic.php?f=9&t=96839&hilit=cat%27s+eye&start=50#p1884148 also noticed it but got no answer so far.

So, is it 2 crew member or 5? Personally, I would go for two. So what is the official stand of Palladium Books over this issue?

Well I suppose there could be stretch versions for a 5person crew. The EA-6 (4person) is a stretched version of the A-6 (2person) afterall.

The way I got around the use of advanced stealth techniques is to make it clear that all alien radar systems are largely immune to its effects, and the techniques they use to garner this immunity carried over to most of the combat VF and aerospace craft of the time.

In some ways this is considered a reality for Stealth aircraft like the F-22/F-35. It is believed that at some point in their operational life the passive approach used will have to give way to an active approach due to improvements in radar technology. Weather the GW alone could do this w/o assistance from the SDF-1 crash is debatable. But it does make sense that adversaries in the GW would be looking for ways to beat the passive stealth approach used by the other side. Potentially bringing the era of passive stealth designs to an end sooner than contemporary designs are expected.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

In some ways this is considered a reality for Stealth aircraft like the F-22/F-35. It is believed that at some point in their operational life the passive approach used will have to give way to an active approach due to improvements in radar technology. Weather the GW alone could do this w/o assistance from the SDF-1 crash is debatable. But it does make sense that adversaries in the GW would be looking for ways to beat the passive stealth approach used by the other side. Potentially bringing the era of passive stealth designs to an end sooner than contemporary designs are expected.

That's partially how I explain it in my own 'setting'. The advanced technology unearthed renders passive stealth obsolete and therefore a return to more 'traditional' airframe design ala 1970s/80s (F-15, F-16, F/A-18, F-20 etc). Of course in my own Alternate Robotech, funding for The War on Terror stalled the F-22 and killed the F-35 outright. The few Raptor squadrons were lost later during World War III. By the time of the First Anti-Unification War, aircraft design had abandoned passive stealth in favour of Zentraedi-based active stealth/ECM.