QUASI-LEGAL Munchkinism! (or, scaring the Pants off your GM)

[Ahulane]

where's the gladiator occ again?

Adventure Sourcebook: Mercenary Adventures

Here's the thing though, Palladium has never made clear one way or another if someone with superpowers would lose them if they were turned into a vampire. Furthermore, I think that there are one or two cases of psychics keeping most of their powers after becoming a vampire, I could be wrong though. So it could be that some powers are retained after becoming an undead. The only thing I could foresee being denied are some of the major abilites like the APS powers, Invulnerability, Bio-Ghost, and the sunlight-based powers.

This is true, and I also recall seeing somewhere that psychic powers were retained.

Doesn't it take a while to destroy something in a cauldron? I haven't read those in years. Also, since it's a cauldron, it's open topped. How do you propose to keep him in the cauldron?

Well, if you summoned him he is going to be restrained by the size of the circle, so he won't be able to do anything that way, he is also forced to obey the summoner if he loses the battle of wills and if that happens, as long as the summoner isn't stupid enough to walk in the circle with the demon the control will last for weeks. The cauldron can melt rune weapons in 1d4+1 hours and magic weapons in 1...I don't think it's going to take it long to destroy the demon. However it doesn't say that the cauldron can kill living creatures but doesn't say that it can't either, possibly if there was a magic item in the cauldron and then the demon was placed in, you could melt them both at the same time. The cauldron also has to be on a nexus and can only be activated in this method during a solstice, lunar eclipse or partial eclipse...so the window is very small.

If possible this method would be the most elaborate and pretty much any mistake would cause it to fail.

A scarecrow burster is actually worse, since they're even immune to magic fire (assuming it's quasi-legal for a scarecrow to be one).

It's legal to be one since Scarecrow's have no OCC limitation, but if "racial" weaknesses aren't affected by OCC's that grant immunities to the same thing, then the scarecrow would basically be able to nullify their fear of fire by being able to manipulate it as long as he has the ISP to snuff out any fire that would be nearby...he'd still be vulnerable, but you'd have to basically instantly destroy him in one shot otherwise he'd just put out the fire and then kill you and regenerate.

-----------------------

Changing it up a bit on the character I promoted earlier. Instead of a Silhouette as the mother, a Phoenixi is, this gives him even more PPE, and ISP to start as well as some interesting racial abilities, like a fire shield, instant healing every 12 hours, good range of innate spell knowledge and psychic abilities (not to mention the ability to fly). Made a mistake with the power choice for him as well, drop the warlock spells and retain the shifter ones. Keep the 3 OCC's of Techno-Wizard, Cyber-Knight and Gladiator but for the gladiator picks he gets Magic Tattoo's. Not sure if the character is 100% legal, but he is within the rules as far as I know...

[The Beast]

Hey, I finally found something that can harm a Mulka. Bad news is that it's from a Rifter, and therefore, optional. In #20 there's the Megalomaniac Table to create really powerful Nightbane. Under the "Death" catagory it states that a 'bane with this power can harm & kill anything, including vampires and similar, nearly impossible beings.

[Crazy Lou]

Hey, I finally found something that can harm a Mulka. Bad news is that it's from a Rifter, and therefore, optional. In #20 there's the Megalomaniac Table to create really powerful Nightbane. Under the "Death" catagory it states that a 'bane with this power can harm & kill anything, including vampires and similar, nearly impossible beings.

I'd never thought about the ramifications of that in the context of a mulka...

[Balabanto]

Anyone can do that with a 9th level magic spell. Beat Impossible Odds. With my next strike, I shall kill this Mulka!

WHAM! Mulka dies.

[Crazy Lou]

Anyone can do that with a 9th level magic spell. Beat Impossible Odds. With my next strike, I shall kill this Mulka!

WHAM! Mulka dies.

No... that would be like a "Miracle" spell in D&D...

[Balabanto]

Incorrect. If you have the mulka down, it increases your chance to something like 75 percent. You do have to roll, but most of the time, the Mulka will die.

[Crazy Lou]

Incorrect. If you have the mulka down, it increases your chance to something like 75 percent. You do have to roll, but most of the time, the Mulka will die.

Actually, sorry, you are incorrect here. If you read the spell, it clearly states that there must be at least some remote chance of success for the attempted action to be even possible to use this spell. There is a 0% chance (note that is not rounded to 0%, it is exactly 0%) that any random spell caster can just punch a mulka and it will die. Thus the spell wouldn't help you at all.

Beat Insurmountable Odds
...The action of which the probability is being "tweaked" must have some real chance of success...

Note also that your arbitrary assignment of an approximately 75% chance of success using this spell, even if you were allowed to use it like that against a mulka, which you're not, is entirely incorrect as well.

If the chracter is attempting something outlandish, but still within the realm of possibility (note, there it is again), he must roll a 15 or higher to strike on an unmodified roll of D20.

That's a 30% chance. This also is not applicable to combat; it's only for stuff like jumping a 30 foot gap when your max jump distance is 18 feet (which isn't even close to the crazy things it sounds like you think the spell can do). For combat, this spell for an outlandish combat action is even less useful. In that case, you just get a +1 bonus to a couple of your actions in that one melee and can shoot ranged attacks a little farther.

The way you want to use this spell is like a "Wish" spell or a "Miracle" spell (as I understand them from explanations of friends who play D&D) from D&D. In that case you get to pretty much do anything you want, if you can pay the cost the GM assigns to that action. Also, it makes you usually have to pay a ton of experience points to do it too. So basically it'll let you do one awesome thing, and then you better hope you succeeded, b/c if you didn't, you're kinda doomed. Beat Insurmountable Odds is nothing like the spell you want it to be. Sorry.

[Tensu]

Can some one tell me what this Harvester I keep seeing is and from what book?

[cornholioprime]

Can some one tell me what this Harvester I keep seeing is and from what book?

A Harvester is a magic OCC (evil alignments ONLY, if it can even be officially used as a Player Character), which is essentially a Witch Pact from the Greater Alien Intelligence, Nxla -the text seems to imply that there is NO other means of becoming or staying a Harvester other than by service to Nxla.

For the extremely low "cost" of stabbing a Target in the eyes at the end of a complex magic ritual, this Character can contain the actual souls of others within his body indefinitely (gaining not only extra Hit Points/SDC but PS as well), and if that Target is a Magic User, they actually gain not only significant, extra amounts of PPE, but also a die roll-determined number of Spells that the Caster had in life!!

This Character Class is, potentially, one of the most Munchkin-worthy Classes in the entire game.

They are in Rifts: Psyscape.

[Tensu]

Sounds interesting here is another question what is the limit on the number of OCCs and is it 1 RCC and 2 OCCs minimum requirement?

[cornholioprime]

Sounds interesting here is another question what is the limit on the number of OCCs and is it 1 RCC and 2 OCCs minimum requirement?

I've never heard of any such limit to the number of OCCs a person can take up....only that Multi-Classing generally sucks in Rifts/Palladium.

And if your question is specifically about the Harvester OCC, they are only limited in the overall number of souls that they can harvest, and keep, at agiven time (I think that it's 2 or 3 souls per level; they can expel any soul they wish at any time in order to make room for other, more desirable souls).

[Crazy Lou]

On the minimum, i think he maybe meant what's the minimum you can use for this thread's competition...? Technically you just have to have at least 2 OCCs or 1 RCC and 1 OCC according to the rules you set down cornholioprime (correct me if i'm wrong). But really nobody's keeping track...

Also, my little note on the harvester: I've yet to be convinced that discontinuing your service to Nxla will make you lose your ability to use the harvesting ritual or keep the souls in you that you've already harvested. I looked through Psyscape very carefully several months ago when this came up (might've been a year ago, don't remember) and no language definitively said that it was a witch type pact. It appears to be that Nxla just teaches you (magically instantly teaches, but w/e) how to do it, and that you then have the knowledge to perform the spell. I'll take another look at it in a couple weeks over spring break...

Note 2 on harvester: they also take x2 damage from all psychic attacks (rather convenient don't you think, considering that Psyscape is the only place that knows about them or that they're trying to bring Nxla to town...) Which is kinda a weakness to an otherwise munchy class, but nothing too bad really.

[cornholioprime]

On the minimum, i think he maybe meant what's the minimum you can use for this thread's competition...? Technically you just have to have at least 2 OCCs or 1 RCC and 1 OCC according to the rules you set down cornholioprime (correct me if i'm wrong). But really nobody's keeping track...

Also, my little note on the harvester: I've yet to be convinced that discontinuing your service to Nxla will make you lose your ability to use the harvesting ritual or keep the souls in you that you've already harvested. I looked through Psyscape very carefully several months ago when this came up (might've been a year ago, don't remember) and no language definitively said that it was a witch type pact. It appears to be that Nxla just teaches you (magically instantly teaches, but w/e) how to do it, and that you then have the knowledge to perform the spell. I'll take another look at it in a couple weeks over spring break...

The very fact that there is no such thing as a totally "freelance" Harvester who completely breaks ranks with Nxla and strikes out on his or her own lends very strong circumstantial evidence to the fact that it is Nxla who provides and maintains the link and/or ability to Harvest.

P.S: Note also (in Rifts: Psyscape, page 19), that the Harvesters continue to automatically learn Spells as they go up in power, and that Nxla is the one who provides them with it automatically -the constant Link between them and Nxla being further strong circumstantial evidence that a Harvester isn't just another magic subset of Necromancy (which anybody could therefore learn), but is some sort of specialized Witch Pact from a uniquely-specialized Alien Intelligence.

[Crazy Lou]

Also, my little note on the harvester: I've yet to be convinced that discontinuing your service to Nxla will make you lose your ability to use the harvesting ritual or keep the souls in you that you've already harvested. I looked through Psyscape very carefully several months ago when this came up (might've been a year ago, don't remember) and no language definitively said that it was a witch type pact. It appears to be that Nxla just teaches you (magically instantly teaches, but w/e) how to do it, and that you then have the knowledge to perform the spell. I'll take another look at it in a couple weeks over spring break...

The very fact that there is no such thing as a totally "freelance" Harvester who completely breaks ranks with Nxla and strikes out on his or her own lends very strong circumstantial evidence to the fact that it is Nxla who provides and maintains the link and/or ability to Harvest.

P.S: Note also (in Rifts: Psyscape, page 19), that the Harvesters continue to automatically learn Spells as they go up in power, and that Nxla is the one who provides them with it automatically -the constant Link between them and Nxla being further strong circumstantial evidence that a Harvester isn't just another magic subset of Necromancy (which anybody could therefore learn), but is some sort of specialized Witch Pact from a uniquely-specialized Alien Intelligence.

Fair enough on the "most of his actual spell knowledge is provided by Nxla" thing.

I was refering partly to the

The Harvester O.C.C.
A forbidden (and until recently, forgotten) form of Necromancy.

The bold part I was looking at from the perspective that it's being called a form of necromancy -- a specialization within the broader art, which seemed to suggest it could be learned w/o Nxla. Saying that it is a forgotten art also seemed to suggest to me that it was previously known. While Nxla could've taught it before too, I was thinking along the lines of, "it had been discovered separately then forgotten again."

Because it also says that harvesters have a fair knowledge of magic, it seems that even if you were originally magically bestowed with the knowledge of how to do the soul stealing ritual, that you could teach someone else to do it w/o Nxla himself stepping in for the "instruction." This is especially true if you were another form of spellcaster (perhaps a general necromancer? But a LLW would apply to my point too), and already had an extensive knowledge of magic.

On the note that there is no mention of any "rogue" harvesters: while I agree that what you're saying makes sense, I had already thought about that and figured that another equally reasonable explanation is that if you're already evil and don't mind stealing souls, and don't care about having everyone else's souls stolen when Nxla comes, then you might as well continue serving Nxla so that when he comes he grants you immortality and more power, rather than hunting and killing you. This can just as easily account for the lack of renegade harvesters. It really just doesn't make a lot of sense for a harvester to want to go rogue.

The reason then that I'm arguing this point at all is that while it doesn't make a lot of sense, it's still possible for rogue harvesters to exist. Perhaps somehow he/she has a change of heart (going from worse than diabolic evil to good seems very unlikely, but hey, it could happen... somehow...) or perhaps the evil mage doesn't like being beholden to Nxla (or anyone) and wants to go dimensionally travel to other places where Nxla isn't coming anyway.

Finally, since this is the "quasi-legal" thread, it makes it possible to stack the harvester class on almost anything else, which makes stuff more munchy. And as we've fairly well proved by having to use implied interpretations , technically absent definitive rulings (both mine) and "strong circumstantial evidence" as our only arguments, I'd say that it easily falls under the category of "quasi-legal" for the sake of being munchy.

[cornholioprime]

Also, my little note on the harvester: I've yet to be convinced that discontinuing your service to Nxla will make you lose your ability to use the harvesting ritual or keep the souls in you that you've already harvested. I looked through Psyscape very carefully several months ago when this came up (might've been a year ago, don't remember) and no language definitively said that it was a witch type pact. It appears to be that Nxla just teaches you (magically instantly teaches, but w/e) how to do it, and that you then have the knowledge to perform the spell. I'll take another look at it in a couple weeks over spring break...

The very fact that there is no such thing as a totally "freelance" Harvester who completely breaks ranks with Nxla and strikes out on his or her own lends very strong circumstantial evidence to the fact that it is Nxla who provides and maintains the link and/or ability to Harvest.

P.S: Note also (in Rifts: Psyscape, page 19), that the Harvesters continue to automatically learn Spells as they go up in power, and that Nxla is the one who provides them with it automatically -the constant Link between them and Nxla being further strong circumstantial evidence that a Harvester isn't just another magic subset of Necromancy (which anybody could therefore learn), but is some sort of specialized Witch Pact from a uniquely-specialized Alien Intelligence.

Fair enough on the "most of his actual spell knowledge is provided by Nxla" thing.

I was refering partly to the

The Harvester O.C.C.
A forbidden (and until recently, forgotten) form of Necromancy.

The bold part I was looking at from the perspective that it's being called a form of necromancy -- a specialization within the broader art, which seemed to suggest it could be learned w/o Nxla. Saying that it is a forgotten art also seemed to suggest to me that it was previously known. While Nxla could've taught it before too, I was thinking along the lines of, "it had been discovered separately then forgotten again."

Because it also says that harvesters have a fair knowledge of magic, it seems that even if you were originally magically bestowed with the knowledge of how to do the soul stealing ritual, that you could teach someone else to do it w/o Nxla himself stepping in for the "instruction." This is especially true if you were another form of spellcaster (perhaps a general necromancer? But a LLW would apply to my point too), and already had an extensive knowledge of magic.

On the note that there is no mention of any "rogue" harvesters: while I agree that what you're saying makes sense, I had already thought about that and figured that another equally reasonable explanation is that if you're already evil and don't mind stealing souls, and don't care about having everyone else's souls stolen when Nxla comes, then you might as well continue serving Nxla so that when he comes he grants you immortality and more power, rather than hunting and killing you. This can just as easily account for the lack of renegade harvesters. It really just doesn't make a lot of sense for a harvester to want to go rogue.

The reason then that I'm arguing this point at all is that while it doesn't make a lot of sense, it's still possible for rogue harvesters to exist. Perhaps somehow he/she has a change of heart (going from worse than diabolic evil to good seems very unlikely, but hey, it could happen... somehow...) or perhaps the evil mage doesn't like being beholden to Nxla (or anyone) and wants to go dimensionally travel to other places where Nxla isn't coming anyway.

Finally, since this is the "quasi-legal" thread, it makes it possible to stack the harvester class on almost anything else, which makes stuff more munchy. And as we've fairly well proved by having to use implied interpretations , technically absent definitive rulings (both mine) and "strong circumstantial evidence" as our only arguments, I'd say that it easily falls under the category of "quasi-legal" for the sake of being munchy.

Yeah...not much of an argument on anything that you've said there.

On that note about Munchkin Submissions: How about a multi-classed Scarecrow, who just happens to be psionically eligible for the Burster PCC (just to gain the resistance to energy), and then the Harvester OCC to, eventually, give me the PPE and Spell Magicks to rival those of the gods??

[Crazy Lou]

On that note about Munchkin Submissions: How about a multi-classed Scarecrow, who just happens to be psionically eligible for the Burster PCC (just to gain the resistance to energy), and then the Harvester OCC to, eventually, give me the PPE and Spell Magicks to rival those of the gods??

Pretty nice.

BTW, how come nobody ever commented on my super spatial mage thing with his "in my realm I can't lose" thing going on? I thought it was pretty good. While he might not be able to conquor the megaverse, you really can't beat him either...

[keir451]

My Sea Titan Navy Seal OCC/Samurai OCC w/Daisho of the Relentless Warrior(str. boost by 10 3 times a day, 2 min. per level,HF 15 to Supernatural beings)/ Special Forces OCC. Physical training since childhood(all physical skills) gives him great physical strength (equal to if not superior to a Titan Juicers), does not need to eat or breath, Major psionic as well w/ sixth sense, intuitive combat, presence sense, impervious to fire, impervious to cold, (alresdy immune to nearly all piosons/toxins), TK forcefield, mask ISP/ppe, Mechanical engineer, electrical engineer, robot mechanics, robot electronics, can dive to a depth of one mile. Wears CS cyborg heavy armor (no penalties due to Supernatural strength), I-11 long gun and ATL-7 for sniping.

[Balabanto]

So what does he have that can stop the Carpet? Everything dies to the Carpet.

[Shark_Force]

So what does he have that can stop the Carpet? Everything dies to the Carpet.

the float in air spell doesn't die to the carpet =P

[The Beast]

BTW, how come nobody ever commented on my super spatial mage thing with his "in my realm I can't lose" thing going on? I thought it was pretty good. While he might not be able to conquor the megaverse, you really can't beat him either...

How far back was he?

[Crazy Lou]

BTW, how come nobody ever commented on my super spatial mage thing with his "in my realm I can't lose" thing going on? I thought it was pretty good. While he might not be able to conquor the megaverse, you really can't beat him either...

How far back was he?

I submit a Godling w/ 2 magic selections (Spatial Mage and TW) and the mind melter psionics with a Harvester and Diobolist dual-class, who has harvested 25 Cosmo-Knights who all had 600 PPE and 5 powerful mages (to get some spells of legend). (also, if CKs can't be harvested -- I don't remember why they mightn't, but if they aren't -- then I'll just take some race w/ possible 600+ PPE. I know there are a couple of them out there that can be harvested.) Then I spend about 2000 of that PPE (or maybe even 3000) to create a huge domain with 2400 or 3600 specialty points. Make its barriers to the realm pretty much impossible to beat down and which only has 1 entrance portal which needs a special code to enter (and pick an absurd code of a 24 hour long combination dance and special motions while reciting a series of thousands of random numbers, words, etc, so that it's pretty much impossible to enter or leave the realm). Put the portal at the bottom of an ocean trench or the middle of deep inter-galactic space, or something crazy so it pretty much will never be found. Take instant transport to the realm and instant transport within the realm. Now I make the realm crazy to my heart's content, after spending enough specialty points first to pretty much make everything unworkable (magic, psionics, nightbane talents, superpowers, several kinds of technology, electricity, supernatural strength, magic weapons, all forms of dimensional teleportation and regular teleportation) and give yourself the exception. Now anyone who's fighting you has virtually no chance. But, just to be sure, you also make a fortress with a room exactly the size of the Sanctum spell of legend (which as a person this powerful shouldn't have problems getting), which you then permenance ward into existence. You put a bunch of fortifications around that too, like permenant impenetrable walls of force, barriers of thoth, etc. Now, if your astral scarecrow knight guy wants to fight, either he lets me take him to my battleground of choice, or I just insta-port there and chill until he can get in. Have fun fighting me on my home field... Any agression either doesn't work or incapacitates you, while i can still fight, plus, you basically have no way to fight me except with SDC melee weapons (against my MDC), and that's if you can find a way to actually harm me. Plus, for extra caution I can boost my MDC and all my stats really high, and give myself the power to cast almost any couple of spells at no cost in my realm. I also bother have one of the mages I harvested have the spell Phantom Air Warlock spell so I can combine it w/ energy sphere to have an extra reserve of about 100,000+ PPE on hand all the time, just in case I want it for anything.

Basically, either this ends in a stalemate, with neither of us ever fighting each other, or you lose.
Unless there's a way that I don't know of to force an enemy to be summoned to you. Or a way that you can force someone to be dimensionally teleported somewhere you want. In either such case, you will then just lose. Because once you're in the sanctum arena, it's impossible to get out, and you lose when I come to finish you at my leisure.

I use a different # of posts per page than default, so I didn't know how I would describe how far back.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Yeah...not much of an argument on anything that you've said there.

On that note about Munchkin Submissions: How about a multi-classed Scarecrow, who just happens to be psionically eligible for the Burster PCC (just to gain the resistance to energy), and then the Harvester OCC to, eventually, give me the PPE and Spell Magicks to rival those of the gods??

Cannot be a psychic and a harvester.

[Anthar]

Yeah...not much of an argument on anything that you've said there.

On that note about Munchkin Submissions: How about a multi-classed Scarecrow, who just happens to be psionically eligible for the Burster PCC (just to gain the resistance to energy), and then the Harvester OCC to, eventually, give me the PPE and Spell Magicks to rival those of the gods??

Cannot be a psychic and a harvester.

Then try "Scarecrow RCC, Russian Fire Sorcerer/Harvester". Complete fire immunity and the soul sucking badness that is the Harvester.

[Anthar]

I submit for your ridicule:

1. Demigod RCC
2. Cronos absorbtion ability (He is father to the elder Olympian gods, so he should breed like one.)
3. Demigod power selection: Harvester
4. Mutant Mega-hero with: Ambidextrous(+1 attack), Mega-Powers of Doesn't need air to breathe and Impervious to diesease, Minor super abilities of Extra PP and Multi-tasking, Major Powers of Invulnerability, Multiple beings, Mimic, Sonic Speed and Divine Aura.
5. Demon Queller OCC (Rifts Japan pg 64) A Scholar and Adventurer class allowed to Rifts super mutants that grants +1 attack, extra PPE, martial arts powers and HTH Kendo.

This combo should give the character 18 attack at level 15, and if mimic is combined with multiple beings(8 at same level option) then you can do the 8X8X8X8X8 etc until it gets boring. Add in the dual absorbtion abilities of Harvester and Cronos and you have evil craziness.

Later, the character can pick up the Shifter OCC to get more minions in addition to the divine aura power and use the Shifter spell to absorb an immortal lesser supernatural being to gain immortality.

Edit: Minor edit on the word "gods".

[Crazy Lou]

exactly how are you giving the demigod the mutant powers? or is that part of the chronos thing, i forget.

[Anthar]

exactly how are you giving the demigod the mutant powers? or is that part of the chronos thing, i forget.

Under the description of Demigod, they can pick any OCC except borg, juicer, crazy from Rifts and robot, alien, magic or mutant animal from Heroes Unlimited. Use the Rifts Superhuman in Rifts Conversion Book 1(revised), which only allows the mutant to select a Scholar and Adventurer class(Demon Queller OCC) and the mutant superhero table from Heroes Unlimited.

[Anthar]

Honestly officer, the thread was dead when I got here. I moved the bloody knife out of the way so I could perform CPR, so that's why I'm covered with blood and my prints are on the knife. Honest...

[Crazy Lou]

exactly how are you giving the demigod the mutant powers? or is that part of the chronos thing, i forget.

Under the description of Demigod, they can pick any OCC except borg, juicer, crazy from Rifts and robot, alien, magic or mutant animal from Heroes Unlimited. Use the Rifts Superhuman in Rifts Conversion Book 1(revised), which only allows the mutant to select a Scholar and Adventurer class(Demon Queller OCC) and the mutant superhero table from Heroes Unlimited.

that doesn't really work... The demon queller is a man at arms class, and it also notes that supernatural beings and creatures of magic can't have super powers.

[Anthar]

exactly how are you giving the demigod the mutant powers? or is that part of the chronos thing, i forget.

Under the description of Demigod, they can pick any OCC except borg, juicer, crazy from Rifts and robot, alien, magic or mutant animal from Heroes Unlimited. Use the Rifts Superhuman in Rifts Conversion Book 1(revised), which only allows the mutant to select a Scholar and Adventurer class(Demon Queller OCC) and the mutant superhero table from Heroes Unlimited.

that doesn't really work... The demon queller is a man at arms class, and it also notes that supernatural beings and creatures of magic can't have super powers.

Rifts GM guide lists Demon Queller as a Scholar and Adventurer class (pg 280 GMG) and the description of the Demigod RCC states that they can be a super hero class from Heroes Unlimited (pg 17 Conversion Book 2).
Quote"O.C.C. & Skills: The Demigod can pick any O.C.C. that fits his human/D-bee background and interests with the following exceptions: Rifts: Full conversion cyborg, robot, juicer, or crazy. A demigod who unknowingly tries any of those treatments will find that they do not work or that they negate his supernatural/magic powers. Heroes Unlimited: Full conversion cyborg, robot, alien, magic, or mutant animal. The GM may rule that if an O.C.C. would offend the demigod's pantheon, the character might be somehow prevented from pursuing it (or there may be modifications and/or side-effects). In general, demigods tend toward man-at-arms, magic practitioners or psionics."

Demigod is an exception to that no superpower for supernatural beings and creatures of magic rule and it says so under their description.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

only scholars/adventurers should get superpowers/ demon quellers are warriors.

[Anthar]

only scholars/adventurers should get superpowers/ demon quellers are warriors.

Check Rifts Game Master Guide (pg 280) and say that again.

[keir451]

So what does he have that can stop the Carpet? Everything dies to the Carpet.

Supernatural Strength, he can pull himself free.

[Crazy Lou]

in regards to the Demon Queller being a scholar/adventurer:

I looked in the japan book and it lists them only under the category of New Empire: People & Adventurers. However in their description it says:

The demon queller is a fabulous warrior... The warrior's one consuming goal is to free the world of demons!

It also notes that he is taught martial arts, body hardening exercises (note this is a super special training for fighters -- aka man-at-arms). The word warrior appears in the class description 7 times, and it talks almost exclusively about how they slay/fight demons, how mighty they are, and how all their powers are geared towards fighting. (sounds like a man at arms to me...)

My conclusion is that because it said adventurer above the class in the world book, it was mistakenly put in the scholar/adventurer category in the GMG.

For the purposes of a quasi-legal munchkin character I'd have to say it's technically allowed, but even in a super powergaming campaign with technicalities abounding to allow more power, I wouldn't allow that. Realistically it's fairly silly to consider a demon queller a "scholar" or "adventurer" more than a "man-at-arms." The whole class is all about fighting and killing demons. He isn't even interested in most knowledge that doesn't directly help him kill more demons.

However I think we still have the issue that supernatural beings can't have super powers.

[Anthar]

However I think we still have the issue that supernatural beings can't have super powers.

And yet Demigods can have super powers, it says so in the description.

[macross2b5]

One word: Mulka.
Limitless power, total invulnerability to magic/psionics/physical damage, and yet only 3 attacks per melee?

I'm sorry...whats a mulka??

[macross2b5]

I'm pretty sure this would work.. A dragon juicer altara warrior women or a monster brodkil gun brother..One you could never touch and the other would be a walking tank...

[macross2b5]

nope, Because impervious to magic does not make oneself impervious to Supernatural PS
and Invulnerability is VERY vulnerable to this
this still leaves Suffocation, Chi, Planar attacks ( Impervious to Psionics does not make you immune to Psychic energy attacks )
and many spells still inflict half damage with a save...
And ... if you were invisible to magic and astral plane --- you'd be totally immune to magic and psionic attacks, that's still leave you open to 4D magic attacks like those of Zurvan and phase attacks

the Neo human Chun Tzu Hero is insanely powerful, and would be impervious to double damage attacks for those meant against Supernatural Evil.


A Neo human Millenium Druid could inflict insane amounts of damage to those evil inclined characters who typically take 10 times damage...

Who is Zurvan???

[Anthar]

One word: Mulka.
Limitless power, total invulnerability to magic/psionics/physical damage, and yet only 3 attacks per melee?

I'm sorry...whats a mulka??

Rifts Manhunter book, Mulka is a super powerful being with only 200 MDC, but nothing can harm a Mulka. They also have limitless PPE and ISP.

Who is Zurvan???

Conversion Book 2: Pantheons of the Megaverse, Zurvan is the Persian god of time.

[Crazy Lou]

he's also pretty much the most powerful being that's statted out.

[Crazy Lou]

WB16, page 93, bullet 4:

The Mystic Knight is impervious to lasers, ion blasts, particle beams, plasma bolts, electricity, fire, heat, and radiation.

Magically created energy and ley line storms inflict half damage.

What does the underlined protion mean? The way I'm reading that is that a scarecrow mystic knight is still vunerable to magically created fire.

It would seem that, at long long last, somebody has discovered that what was thought to be invincible before -the Mystic Knight Scarecrow -might not be the MOST legally munchkin PC after all!!

I've already taken that into consideration. It still doesn't matter.

• Half damage from magical fire, via Mystic Knight
• Psionic Powers of 6th sense (always senses danger 1 minute before it happens, gets 4 melees to prep) and Resist Fire (half damage, magic or not... now 1/4 damage)
• Spell List includes Impervious to Energy (no damage) and Impervious to Fire (no damage)

You'd need to cast an Anti-Magic Cloud, be the caster of that Anti-Magic Cloud, use magical fire, and do quadruple his MDC (half damage from psi-power, half from class ability), and prevent him from escaping. Good luck to ya.

Actually wouldn't it be 3x his MDC? Multipliers don't stack by multiplying, they're like +?00%

[Balabanto]

So what does he have that can stop the Carpet? Everything dies to the Carpet.

Supernatural Strength, he can pull himself free.

No, he cannot. Escape will get you out of the carpet, as will dispel magic barriers, but he must be a spellcaster to select those abilities. And the carpet must bar his way.

[Crazy Lou]

don't know if it's been stated yet, but Godling RCC, powers 9(mind melter) 10x2 (ley line rifter/shifter) and then throw on Ronin for some combat expertise, and you have a pissed off japanese walking battery of energy with a daisho.

why take llr & shifter both when they use the same spell chart? the best part about the godling power 10 is that it gets every spell from the level as you lvl up. shifter/TW + air warlock or some other form of non-invocation magic is the way I'd go. Also, like so many of the munchies on this thread, you might as well tack on Sea-Inquisitor, Cosmo-Knight, and some other extra class, just for fun. Plus Godlings can be of any race, so you might as well pick more powerful race while you're at it.

[Crazy Lou]

The craziest thing about a spatial mage is that if you can get enough PPE to invest you can become virtually omnipotent within your realm. I'd hardly say that's an underpowered natural ability.

[LostOne]

The craziest thing about a spatial mage is that if you can get enough PPE to invest you can become virtually omnipotent within your realm. I'd hardly say that's an underpowered natural ability.

But it is awfully limiting for a PC adventurer if he never leaves his realm.

[Crazy Lou]

The craziest thing about a spatial mage is that if you can get enough PPE to invest you can become virtually omnipotent within your realm. I'd hardly say that's an underpowered natural ability.

But it is awfully limiting for a PC adventurer if he never leaves his realm.

Yep. You can't do much with that. But I just mean how the shifter has all these natural abilities about being able to D. port and control rifts, and then I think back to how the S. mage ability to D. port himself for nothing/practically nothing was removed b/c it was considered too overpowering? And the spatial mage's control over rifts is supposed to make the shifter look like an amateur?

We always gave them the ability to travel/control D. port and rifts just like a shifter but with greater bonuses, etc. AND gave them the leveling ability to open specific kinds of rifts.

As it stands though, the most powerful thing about the spatial mage is either the vortex they can create, or the 4-D transformation spell. Unlike everyone else (which pretty much makes it useless for them) a S. mage doesn't have to roll for insanities when he uses it. And that power is pretty freaking awesome. Plus: best spell for spying EVER.

And People's idea about using a Harvester spatial mage to make an enormous realm, probably wouldn't work. At least if I was the GM, I'd have to call BS on that one: the sacrifice has to be permanent, and the PPE a harvester gains is in no way either his OR permenant.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the D port self power removed b/c of being "overpowered." I'd just toss some of that stuff back in for the spatial mage if I ever actually ran one.

The note on never leaving the realm from a PC point of view: well yeah, but we're not necessarily making PCs for this thread, just something as powerful as possible. Also, that's what balances the fact that you can be omnipotent (barring supreme beings) while in the realm (kinda in a similar way to how you have to get out of your awesome armor/RPA)

Also, the PPE is added to the harvester's base, it's not like it's a temporary bonus or anything. He gets the bonus to his base PPE (check the book, it actually specifies that it's added to his BASE, which is what you have to sack PPE from for the spatial mage realm creation) b/c he's bound a person's SOUL to himself. It'd basically be like he's actually making a permanent PPE sacrifice on the part of the people's souls bound to him. If you wanted it could be considered that the people who's souls are being drained of PPE in this way are considered co-creators of the realm just as when multiple spatial mages collaborate on a realm, and would have all the special features of the ream apply to them as well, if they weren't busy being bound to the harvester. Not that that interpretation would effectively mean anything since even if the soul was removed from the harvester by exorcism or if he let it go, it'd just go wherever souls go and not have any say in the realm anyway. That'd actually be a beneficial interpretation for the Harvester character since he could bind souls to himself, sink the PPE from them into the realm, release the souls and repeat to create a huge realm w/ tons of points, and not even have to go to the trouble of binding super powerful beings like cosmo-knights or similar w/ huge PPE bases. It'd also let a low level harvester do this but just take way longer.

Lastly, remember that this is quasi-legal. There's nowhere that says a harvester spatial mage couldn't do this, so for the purposes of this thread, this exploit is valid. I wouldn't ever let a PC be a godling with a table-created alien race & w/ TW and Air Warlock magic power selections + master psionics born as a spatial mage & multi-classed to a harvester + diabolist + sea inquisitor to begin with, so the issue of permitting it in a game isn't a big deal imo anyway.

[Thinyser]

my personal new favorite is a Silhoette Temporal warrior...Huge PPE base and lotsa kool abilties and bonuses plus spells.... mwahahaha mwahahaha....
new and improved with the combo of spells universal balance and giant so universal balance turns his 100 MDC to 10,000 SDC and giant tripples this to 30,000 and changes it back to MDC so thats 100 MDC to 30,000 MDC with only 2 spells! Is that not freaking awsome?!?!?!

a GIANT Zentraedi Tree Shaman gets his 2500 SDC gets turned into 250,000 MDC with his tree creature transformation.

I haven't read the whole thread, but let's multi-class this guy into a Line Walker and teach him universal balance and giant (as mentioned above). Unless the tree-formed Tree Shaman can't cast spells (I don't have the book) that's 2500 SDC turned into 250,000 MDC in tree form, converted to 25,000,000 SDC by universal balance, converted into 7,500,000,000 MDC by giant. SEVEN-POINT-FIVE FREAKIN' BILLION MDC!!

Yeah, yeah... I know... zents are off-limits.

the problem is Universal Balance is only castable by Native american spirits and Paradox Shamans, and I'm damn sure Tree shamans don't get paradox shaman spells and the spell is not available to Ley line Wizards and Temporal Raiders.


so it's not even quasi legal to have Giant and Universal Balance

actually the paradox spell are stated as being shaman/temporal spells.
but then again the giant spell states that it removes or suspends all other spells on the person it is cast on. so all other magics would be nullified while it was in effect.

No, Giant (p.133 BoM) only says "protective spells that create formfitting armor or similar effects are negated" as well as the enlarged person's ability "to draw on PPE" is negated. So as long as its not a protective form fitting magic it stays active... and it specifies that after giant is cast the formfitting protective magics can be cast on the giant but only by another mage.

So while one is large he can get armored up with magic... but only after he is big.

Spells can have an order of opperation... like math. Do it in the wrong order and you don't get the outcome you want. But in this case the quasi legal part is is the SDC transformation a "protective form fitting magic" that would be shreded with his growth and since I believe that the strucure of the being is converted to SDC not that he gets a SDC overlay of armor its NOT formfitting armor type effect and would not be negated at the time of growth so cast that first then giant and whamo uber giant.

[Jay05]

Thought of this one awhile back, and it requires a bit of back story but basically, you start with a Warlock Marine, through the course of years and megaversal adventuring he meets/ falls for a female godling who's parents are (insert two badass deities here) from which she inherit's magic (line walker, and shifter plus psi), the marine and Godling have child A: Child A: grows up inheriting magic from both ends and psi from mom, which imho negates the one power for the demigod rule and give you a psionic demigod with one set of caster abilities, and when dad retires... A set of sentient magical power armor that doesn't interfere with casting, and gives extra bonuses to your already tough as hell demi god. Edit I forgot to mention the minor rune weapon and mdc armor he inherits from his deific family.

[Jay05]

And for a second submission, don't know if this combo's been done on this thread yet, but: 2nd generation Sea Titan with Master psi(legal to roll) who through a mishap with the Lord of the Deep becomes a sea inquisitor. Now you have a SN creature with master psi powers and the ability to do double damage to all SN creatures he faces has a renewable minor force field, and the abillity to take the oomph out of nearly any psi or magic thrown against him.

[Lenwen]

Living being Ramming Pro..

Go to Atlantis .. Augment your PS

Step 1: PS-50 (SN) Bio-Wizardry.
+6-PS (Magic Tattoo) = SNPS-56.
+4 :SNPS (Superhuman Strength Fetish) = SN PS:60.
+10 : PS Daisho of the Relentless Warrior = SN PS: 70.
+50% PS - Giant spell . PS is now SN PS:105
x2 - Strength of Whales . = SNPS -210.

Winged Flight 5 mph per PS point. 210x5 =1050 mph flight speed.

Magical Adrenal Rush +50% to speed Your flight speed is 1575 mph.

+20 : Spd - Speed Fetish your flight speed is now 1595 mph. (+50% near a ley line or double that along a nexus)

Now that your super sonic flying character .. you need a fair amount of Armor.

While your in atlantis you realize you also need a great set of magical armor, you there for get .. the magic Tat : Knight in Full Body Armor and Heart Encircled by Chains.

Your only a measily lvl 1 character so thats a full tat activation of 95 MDC.

Now your invulnerable as well as armored as well as able to attain supersonic speed lvls.

Crash damage rules of Rue, clearly indicate 1d4 (SDC) dama per every 20 mph above 50mph.

1520/50= 30.4 (rounding down) thats 30d4 damage which is now Mega Damage as well since your now a SN MDC being ..

at 1520 mph your doing 120 MDC on a non crit .. and 240md with a crit .. while raming people.

Thanks to the G.I. Joe rule (Which is 100% canon) you could literally use anything as armor and do 240 MD per ram .. while not getting hurt as the armor takes every last bit of damage ..

Your moving so fast that no samas could hit you with any weapon system they are using currently ..

There might be larger missiles (medium or heavy/large) that might be able to hit you but wont hurt you (Thanks G.I.Joe Rule)

[Lenwen]

15th lvl character with ..

Running speed tattoo = 180 MPH ..
+ Heart Worms +20-Spd, = 200 MPH..
Spine Twister x2 spd = 400mph..
Muscle Boot (x2) x2 spd = 800 mph..
Greater Speed Fetish x2 spd = 1600 mph ..

Magical Adrenal Rush = +50% spd = 2400 MPH running speed ..

Did some one say Olympic style sprints ?