Symbols

[Cybermancer]

Is it just me or is there a certain similarity between the Lazlo Societies symbol and the Vanguards symbol?

Could some last vestiges of the Lazlo Society influenced the early Vanguard?

[mrloucifer]

I'd noticed that some time ago by accident myself.

And I wouldnt be suprised if they either influenced them, or perhaps the Society went on to evolve into the early Vanguard society after the coming of the rifts.

[Cybermancer]

I figured even if they found old records or something, it could provide a link.

Maybe somewhere in the bowels of Chi-Town there are references to the various characters over at LS.org.

Kinda makes me wonder how early Vanguard archivists might have viewed some of the more prolific posters.

[Natasha]

Coincidence.

[Cybermancer]

Coincidence.

You're probably right. Still, it's interesting to explore the possibilities.

[Lord Z]

What is the symbol of the Vanguard?

[Cybermancer]

A Star of David made up of a black pyramid and a hollow, upside down triangle. The top, flat part of the triangle appears to 'disappear' behind the black pyramid. The ring of the Star overlaps the top of the star while tucking in behind the bottom point.

I'm not certain if the use of the Star of David is intentional or not. The similarities were the use of triangles, circles and the color black.

Then again, the Vanguard may have intentionally used a modified Holy Symbol.

[tmikesecrist3]

I Could see the wisdom of useing a holy simbol as part of the symbol for a group that expects to fight super nateral mosters. Aspeasly as some of them have a weekness to the fath that man places on such symbols.... Espeacaly a sybol that is part of the seal of solomen.......

That is why a cross would work for a christion to hold a vampire at bay but would be useless for a druid wiccen or a jew.

hope I dont offend any one, with that.... but I think it is the power of faith in what the symbol repersents, reather than the symbol itself.

[Sgt Anjay]

Well, remember that in Palladium there are actual Mystic Symbols which are used in magic rituals and have predetermined meanings. I think they're detailed most thoroughly in the PFRPG main book. Both the cross and the six-pointed star are among the symbols: the cross is the symbol of protection (and if you look, is part of every protection circle), while the six-pointed star is the symbol of unbridled power. There's also a half-white, half-black circle that stands for duality (good/evil, light/dark, etc). Note that this means the symbols have meaning and power unrelated to faith, and these magical uses and meanings are logical for organizations who know about mystic symbols.

[Cybermancer]

Well, remember that in Palladium there are actual Mystic Symbols which are used in magic rituals and have predetermined meanings. I think they're detailed most thoroughly in the PFRPG main book. Both the cross and the six-pointed star are among the symbols: the cross is the symbol of protection (and if you look, is part of every protection circle), while the six-pointed star is the symbol of unbridled power. There's also a half-white, half-black circle that stands for duality (good/evil, light/dark, etc). Note that this means the symbols have meaning and power unrelated to faith, and these magical uses and meanings are logical for organizations who know about mystic symbols.

Some very good points that I hadn't considered. I'll have to take a moment to leaf through the Palladium Fantasy book again sometime.

[Lord Z]

I have a symbology question. Does anyone know what a hammer held upside-down represents? I was recently shown a painting which included -- among other things -- a crescent moon man in the sky holding a carpenter's hammer backwards. His thumb and the handle were pointed up. The the metal head of the hammer was pointed down.

[sasha]

Thor's hammer?

[Lord Z]

Hmm, could be...

[mrloucifer]

Thor's hammer?

Thats what I was coming up with as well... I wear one on a chain 'round my neck frequently... part of a tribute to my Scandinavian heritage and my love of all things Norse Mythology.

[Tearstone]

Thor's Hammer. I've seen it represented as such before.

Also, when it comes to those symbols there's some other underlying meanings to them too.

For the Cross it represents North, South, East, and West, and subsequently the elements. Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. Water destroys them. Fire burns them (if staked), they are tied to the element of Earth, and the Sun is tied to both Air and Fire, which hurts them.

While not everyone knows this aspect of the cross, if you study the blending of Christianity and Celtic mysticism and mythology, it's actually part of what was taught by the Missionaries when they visited the Celts, and subsequently the two were blended in Celtic territories for a long time.

As for the Star of David and symbols that work off of it, their is a futher meaning to it two. It falls onto numerology and mysticism. The Star is made up of 2 triangles. 2 is the number and symbol of balance, as well as opposites. Love and hate, light and dark, hot and cold, good and evil, male and female. 3 or the triangle is the symbol of perfection, and of the trinity. God the Father, The Sun, and The Holy Spirit, The power of 3, etc. Triads have long been powerful representations in religions across the world. Taken together it's the meeting of opposites in perfect balance and power, which creates a synergistic effect, hence why the Star is a symbol of unbridled power. Perfectly matched to itself as it is, it's only logical.

The 5 pointed star is often used because of the 5 elements it represents. Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Soul/Spirit, and contained in the circle. Used point up, it's a positive representation of being and of power. Point down, its the undoing of things, the opposite of the light. Point up is the Pentacle, point down it's the Pentagram.

In magical theory, imagine what you could do if you incorporated the cross into Star of David mix, as well as the Circle, which itself has many significant meanings, besides being a wall, container, shield, unifier, and distributer of power/energy.