Splugorth Slavers

[dragonfett]

Hey everyone, I hope this is the right forum to post this in. Recently I ran an my group in an encounter against a Splugorth Slaver. The group had already killed the Slavers complement of Blind Warriors when they had tried to capture them away from the barge. I figured it would be a more fair fight if the Blind Warriors were already out of the way when they tried to fight the Slaver. The fight was going just as I had imagined until the dragon in the party had finally broken through one of the barges four shields and was able to close to melee range. The slaver and dragon parried hits from one another a couple of times until the dragon landed a hit that the slaver couldn't parry (aka, didn't roll high enough on his parry attempt). So I went about trying to figure the damage done to the Slaver when I noticed that it only had Hit Points. It didn't even have any SDC! On top of that, their PS isn't supernatural, robotic, or even augmented like a Juicer's is. I figured that if it only had Hit Points, it must have some sort of immunity like a vampire or werewolf, but could see none. Everyone in the group was sorely disappointed that the fight was so easy after the shields came down. They thought he was going to be so tough even after the shields came down that they were instead focused on destroy all 11 eyes (5 floating, 5 on the barge, 1 Eye Staff) before they started attacking him. They already had destroyed 6 of the eyes before the dragon finally landed the killing blow.

What I would like to know is, did I miss something or are the Splugorth Slavers really that weak?

[Johnathan]

I would say this was an error on the authors part that was missed/looked over. I'm sure it pops up in an Errata SOMEWHERE. Honestly, I would say that, since Slavers are Minions of the Splugorth and have already been augmented through Bio-Wizardry, that they are made into MDC beings. I would say 275 MDC. This is the Maximum amount of MDC that be imparted upon on any creature through Bio-Wizard Trasmutation.

It could also be that you could simply convert their HP into MDC (2D6x10). This would, at the very least, give this natural predator some toughness to them. Admittedly, in the case of the Slaver, getting to him should be the BULK of the fight. A Slaver is built around being able to utilize his eyes of Eylor and Blind Warrior Women effectively. Taking out his Blind Warrior Women would severely weaken this creatures offensive capabilities. But he still has access to almost a dozen different eyes of Eylor. These usually provide enough back up power for the Slaver...

So, you COULD still make him an MDC creature, or a squishy, just know how to utilize their powers.

[dragonfett]

Giving him the damn near dozen eyes doesn't make a difference at all when the only real combat spells/powers any of them have between all 11 is in the staff! And I honestly don't think it was an oversight due to the fact that they were written up at least TWICE that I have seen the exact same way. And the fact that they have absolutely no SDC shocks me as well. Almost every creature in Palladium has SDC/MDC, and if they only have Hit Points, then they have some sort of natural defense that makes them immune to some attacks. And if you take a look at just how large a Slaver really is (10' tall just in the barge, not to mention however long his tail is), you would honestly come to the conclusion that is should at least have a good amount of SDC. Unless they are for some reason less structurally sound than the human bodies that they kidnap. Now if they were reprinted in the revised SB1, I don't know on account that I don't have it yet (but I am wanting it, I just need more money). And sending in a group of less than six would be an almost total wipe due to the fact that 3 Blind Warrior Women get 6 attacks each, plus the Slavers 10, equals 28 attacks per melee round. With the average character getting 4 attacks a round, you would really need at least 6 characters to take on a Slaver and his Blind Warrior Women, less if you had power armor or robot vehicles in the group.

[Johnathan]

correct me if I'm wrong then... but can't Eyes of Eylor be programmed with spells? You could give him any assortment of spell combinations. Dedicate half of his eyes do offensive spells and the other half to defensive spells. Just imagine a a Slaver with Magic Adrenal-Rush or Sorcerous Fury. Sure, the bastard is going to probably end up going Kamikaze on the group, but so what?

[dragonfett]

From everything that I have read, no. All of the eyes have the following abilities: see aura, see the invisible, eyes of the wolf, sense (and see) magic and PPE energy, sense evil, detect concealment, ley line transmission, a wider range of color vision, including the infrared and ultra violet ranges, passive nightvision out to 600, telescopic vision out to 6000, and magnification to the 300th power. In addition to that, the 5 floating eyes have the following abilities: Horror Factor 14, blinding flash 2 times/day, globe of daylight 2 times/day, chameleon 2 times/day, and can shoot bolts that can do 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC, or 1d4 MDC (double at/near a ley line). Ok, so I overlooked the floating eye's energy bolts. Within the first melee round, all but one had been destroyed anyway. Then there's the Eye Staff. It's powers are as follows, usable twice per day at 8th level potency: dispel magic, dispel barrier, negate magic, , energy disruption, extinguish fire, repel animals, fear (HF 16), oracle, tongues, chameleon, befuddle, and call lightning. This is in addition to the Forearm Blasters the Slavers have that do 5d6 MD and usable 4 times a round (out of melee actions), Head Laser that do 2d6 MD and usable 4 times a round as well.

[Shark_Force]

quick question: how is this functionally different from, say, kydians or kittani in power armor?

[dragonfett]

Kittani in power armor has access to weapons that don't have a limit on how often they can be fired per turn, or if they do their attacks/melee are low enough that burning through alternative weapons would not be an issue.

[MikelAmroni]

One thing I will say is that if you are running a Slaver and his barge, if you aren't using those (ppe) free befuddles and blinding flashes, you aren't doing it right. Negatives to hit and parry and dodge are MUCH more potentially damaging than actual damage. Just ask your slaver who just missed his parry. How would a -10 to strike, parry, and dodge for 1d4 rounds (blinding flash) have changed that? (remember, the warrior women don't need sight, so it wouldn't affect them) Granted its an easy save, but let's face it, you can toss out 10 of those in a day. And its a ten foot diameter hit. So you don't hit just one, you hit multiple. Or Befuddle (-1/2 attacks per melee, -2 to strike, parry and dodge, skills at -20%, lasts for 2 minutes per level. Only one at a time, but a very useful thing, especially on a heavy hitter like a dragon. Attacks per melee and bonuses to strike parry and dodge are some of the most useful things to limit in a fight. Your players should be using these tactics, and so should you. Its just common sense. If they can't avoid the hits, suddenly those attacks are a LOT more potent.

So given all of that (and that's just two spells he can use 10 times each) and the fact that he has 10 attacks per melee, I can certainly see giving him Hit Points only underneath that auto renewing Armor of Ithan amulet. If a player can get there, they should have EARNED it. A MD hit still may or may not take him out, unless you're talking a dragon, or some other big hit. So I wouldn't worry about beefing them up - they are plenty good enough, with a lot of options, not even mentioning the warrior women slaves.

Remember, the most useful magics in Rifts are NOT the damaging ones.

[dragonfett]

What Armor of Ithan amulet are you talking about? If you are referring to what protects the Slaver and barge, then that's the BARGE'S force field ability. As for the befuddle and blinding flash spells, well that one is completely on me. My house was packed full which had me off balance as a GM, not to mention I was running this adventure somewhat on the fly. I should have read up on the abilities ahead of time and read up on the spells and everything.

But just looking at the Splugorth Slavers and their description, I really thought that they would of had at least SDC as well as hit points. Not to mention at least bionic strength. I mean look at their size and mass, and then the fact that they only have 2d6x10 HP. A bad roll would mean that their bodies are more fragile that that of a first level wizard. How pathetic is that? Even a max roll of 120, they still have far less than the average Juicer, and they look like they like they SHOULD be able to to handle a Juicer by themselves without needing their barges or magic or other enhancement. I mean, I thought that the Splugorth respected natural strength and toughness and while the Slavers are strong compared to a human, a human with a really lucky roll for their PS would be able to beat them in an arm wrestling contest. Without their barges, they would be nothing!

[Lenwen]

My Slavers are not the kiddie toy Slavers from the books, I usually equip them so they can actually do the job at hand .. no matter if that job is slaving SDC beings or Godlings ..

If you wish I will show you a proper way to equip and gear/create a Slaver with just the standard 6 BWW's and 5 Eylore Eyes .. which will bring the fear back into your PC's ..

[Lenwen]

I mean, I thought that the Splugorth respected natural strength and toughness

You sure you're reading the same material I am ?

I am extremely interested how you came to that conclusion ..

[dragonfett]

I am not sure, as I have only skimmed over the Atlantis book, but that seems to be the type of culture that they promote in my mind. If I am wrong, please don't slam me to hard. I have more books than I really know what to do with, not to mention I really didn't bother looking through the Atlantis book because I was pretty sure that the adventure would never go anywhere near Atlantis.

[Samored II]

Without their barges, they would be nothing!

IMO, that's the point.

[dragonfett]

The only point I was trying to make is that they seem like they should be able to take more of a beating than the rules say they can. Granted, they also have the Armor of Ithan that immediately comes up when the barge (which apparently I also had overlooked because it was nestled in with the MDC by location and no note of it was made next to the Hit Points and SDC and MDC section. The least the publisher could have done was put a note in the MDC section saying "Hey, look here!", but I digress), but if you take a look at the pictures of them and their description, I still think that they should at least have like 2d6x100 SDC. With all this new information that I am seeing in retrospect, I will inform the players OOC that the battle shouldn't have been as easy as it was, but explain it away as in game as the Slaver already had been in one fight earlier that day and had expended a lot of resources before winning the battle.

[Lenwen]

The only point I was trying to make is that they seem like they should be able to take more of a beating than the rules say they can. Granted, they also have the Armor of Ithan that immediately comes up when the barge (which apparently I also had overlooked because it was nestled in with the MDC by location and no note of it was made next to the Hit Points and SDC and MDC section. The least the publisher could have done was put a note in the MDC section saying "Hey, look here!", but I digress), but if you take a look at the pictures of them and their description, I still think that they should at least have like 2d6x100 SDC. With all this new information that I am seeing in retrospect, I will inform the players OOC that the battle shouldn't have been as easy as it was, but explain it away as in game as the Slaver already had been in one fight earlier that day and had expended a lot of resources before winning the battle.

Easy fix ..

As I've eluded to earlier in my honest opinion Splugorthian society is all about augmentation of the base races that make up its society. Hence the Powerlords, Overlords, Highlords, Conservator's .. every single race in their society is in fact augmented in some way or another ..

Its easy to simply augment your slaver as you deem necessary for the situation at hand. This time the Slaver went down relatively easy .. But the next time they meet a slaver .. is it an augmented Slaver or not ?

Making them greater MDC creatures is easily done in Atlantis ..
Granting them even more power threw spells or psionic's is also rather trivial for Atlantis to do ..
Giving the BWW's harder hitting an further ranged weapons is also trivial .. as is giving each Eylor Eye lasers or Plasma blasters to further increase their firepower .. Heck .. Its not illegal or against the rules to include a Conservator among the Barge's compliment of BWW's .. (That alone would be crazy with out adding in the stuff I've already stated)

PS- Remember to add +2 attacks to everything and everyone from Atlantis world book due to the Rue generation now.. (its not just for PC's anymore)

In the end You ultimately make the judgment call on how powerful or how weak you wish your Slaver to be for your PC's .. In my games, when the PC's see a Slaver they run .. I do not make nice with slaver's .. they are not nice beings they are there to utterly destroy your world then make you a slave .. none of my slaver's are by the book they are all augmented in some small way that ensures their victory 9 times outta 10 .

If I bring atlantis into my games .. my PC's (wife an twins with couple of their friends) usually end up going the opposite way quick fast and in a hurry .

[dragonfett]

+2 attacks! Good lord, that would give the BWW 8 and the Slaver 12! As it is, I probably won't be throwing another one against them again any time soon due to the fact that the party now consists of a Rogue Scientist, a City Rat, and a dragon at the moment, but that player is wanting to change characters. Playing a dragon just wasn't as fun as he had thought it was going to be.

[cl7277]

I found in sourcebook one revised under the slaver on page 149, Under MDC that the slaver gets 35 MDC from light body armor +20 MDC from the Transmutation Slime that covers the entire body + the 120MDc from the Armor of Ithan spell that was erected before that dragon got to the slaver.

[dragonfett]

Well I only have the original Sourcebook 1 and a PDF of Atlantis. I prefer reading the real book as opposed to a PDF.

[Shark_Force]

Kittani in power armor has access to weapons that don't have a limit on how often they can be fired per turn, or if they do their attacks/melee are low enough that burning through alternative weapons would not be an issue.

to clarify: you object that underneath the forcefield, they're quite easy to kill. this is not really any different from various other splugorth minions.

[Lenwen]

Well I only have the original Sourcebook 1 and a PDF of Atlantis. I prefer reading the real book as opposed to a PDF.

If you wish, I could assist you with possible creations of atlantean based forces .

I love creating them lol, if only to show just how powerful that particular bloc is when compared to various other nations around the Rifts earth setting ..

[Colt47]

From my experience with Slaver barges, they are basically advanced crowd control units that are specialized against infantry. Any group utilizing combat vehicles or powerful creatures like dragons will give any slave barge, regardless of outfitting, a run for their money. That is why when capturing something big they use more than just slave barges.

[Lenwen]

Any group utilizing combat vehicles or powerful creatures like dragons will give any slave barge, regardless of outfitting, a run for their money.

From everything I've seen .. this would not be the most accurate of posts .. no offense ...

[MikelAmroni]

What Armor of Ithan amulet are you talking about? If you are referring to what protects the Slaver and barge, then that's the BARGE'S force field ability. As for the befuddle and blinding flash spells, well that one is completely on me. My house was packed full which had me off balance as a GM, not to mention I was running this adventure somewhat on the fly. I should have read up on the abilities ahead of time and read up on the spells and everything.

But just looking at the Splugorth Slavers and their description, I really thought that they would of had at least SDC as well as hit points. Not to mention at least bionic strength. I mean look at their size and mass, and then the fact that they only have 2d6x10 HP. A bad roll would mean that their bodies are more fragile that that of a first level wizard. How pathetic is that? Even a max roll of 120, they still have far less than the average Juicer, and they look like they like they SHOULD be able to to handle a Juicer by themselves without needing their barges or magic or other enhancement. I mean, I thought that the Splugorth respected natural strength and toughness and while the Slavers are strong compared to a human, a human with a really lucky roll for their PS would be able to beat them in an arm wrestling contest. Without their barges, they would be nothing!

The biggest thing to remember is they while the splugorth respect strength, it doesn't mean exactly the same thing as overpowering. The Slaver is fine for your average encounter with humanoids. Hard targets are what the Kydians and Kittani are for, not the Slavers. That said, Lenwen is right that you can outfit a slaver to take on pretty much anyone with the right amount of gear - but then it sounds more like your players ran across the slaver, or were tracking him - not necessarily the other way around. In short the slaver wasn't really prepared for facing a dragon in hand to hand. He should die and die quickly. Maybe the dragon keeps being lucky for a bit. No big, everyone's luck runs out, especially when they send a search and destroy group out to eliminate the problem getting in the way of their slaving operation.

And yes, I was referring to the personal protection forcefield that protects the slaver specifically. I could have sworn it was from an amulet, but the point is still the same. It auto renews in 15 seconds to full if it fails (and don't forget the GI Joe rule where if it stops some of the damage before it collapses, it stops all of the damage, even though it was overwhelmed - though that applies mostly to body armor, this forcefield is in effect its body armor). As for knowing its abilities - I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, but definitely play that up the next time.
PC: "Wow that one was tough - did you beef up their stats?"
GM: "No, I just used a few tricks it had this time, stuff I didn't realize it had until I read more in depth about it."
Dragon PC: "Yeah, once I got into melee with it, it died just as quick, but man was it harder to do this time around. We got really lucky last time."
And you'll find your PCs asking how you did what you did, and your game will be better for it. Once they've mastered the normal slaver, then you can hit them with a search and destroy team put together to counter them. If they survive that, they've earned it. If I were you though, I'd make sure to use less rune weapons and more bio-wizardry modifications. Almost as powerful, and harder to have a monty haul situation with the gear from all those slavers and the the search and destroy team. Of course, me if I took down a slaver and his barge, I'd grab those amulets and wear them two or three at a time, so I could have extra FF at all times (activate one, when it runs out activate the next, etc).

Any group utilizing combat vehicles or powerful creatures like dragons will give any slave barge, regardless of outfitting, a run for their money.

From everything I've seen .. this would not be the most accurate of posts .. no offense ...

Its also not the most inaccurate of posts either. You CAN equip a slaver to take on pretty much anything, but why when its simpler just to give him an escort who handles situations like that. Yes the slaver CAN handle anything, but the splugorth minions are all specialists, who like doing their things more than other tasks. Doesn't mean their incapable, just means its not their first (or even second) choice. The slaver would just as soon let a kydian or kittani handle the hard targets - lets him work in his element, taking down smaller humanoids (they are bullies at heart).

[Lenwen]

Any group utilizing combat vehicles or powerful creatures like dragons will give any slave barge, regardless of outfitting, a run for their money.

From everything I've seen .. this would not be the most accurate of posts .. no offense ...

Its also not the most inaccurate of posts either. You CAN equip a slaver to take on pretty much anything, but why when its simpler just to give him an escort who handles situations like that. Yes the slaver CAN handle anything, but the splugorth minions are all specialists, who like doing their things more than other tasks. Doesn't mean their incapable, just means its not their first (or even second) choice. The slaver would just as soon let a kydian or kittani handle the hard targets - lets him work in his element, taking down smaller humanoids (they are bullies at heart).

After further reading the Kittani description .. and multiple other Racial classes to make sure I know and or understand them ..
The Slaver is thee only one other then the BWW's that actively .. well .. enslave ..

Which means to me (as I personally understand it) that they are the defacto only slaver units (least again so far as I can understand) in the splugorthian empires ..

Which in my personal opinion, means there are various "tiers" of Slavers .. from the regular SDC one's to the MDC one's and quite possibly .. even the one's who have power equivelent to that of highlords .. (to take down the toughest of the slave's they hunt)

What do you think ?

[dragonfett]

I think that is a reasonable assumption.

[Colt47]

Any group utilizing combat vehicles or powerful creatures like dragons will give any slave barge, regardless of outfitting, a run for their money.

From everything I've seen .. this would not be the most accurate of posts .. no offense ...

Its also not the most inaccurate of posts either. You CAN equip a slaver to take on pretty much anything, but why when its simpler just to give him an escort who handles situations like that. Yes the slaver CAN handle anything, but the splugorth minions are all specialists, who like doing their things more than other tasks. Doesn't mean their incapable, just means its not their first (or even second) choice. The slaver would just as soon let a kydian or kittani handle the hard targets - lets him work in his element, taking down smaller humanoids (they are bullies at heart).

After further reading the Kittani description .. and multiple other Racial classes to make sure I know and or understand them ..
The Slaver is thee only one other then the BWW's that actively .. well .. enslave ..

Which means to me (as I personally understand it) that they are the defacto only slaver units (least again so far as I can understand) in the splugorthian empires ..

Which in my personal opinion, means there are various "tiers" of Slavers .. from the regular SDC one's to the MDC one's and quite possibly .. even the one's who have power equivelent to that of highlords .. (to take down the toughest of the slave's they hunt)

What do you think ?

Oh they have other people working the Slave market besides the pimp mobile slavers with their barges. Just about anyone who is a D-bee or magical critter that captures people often sell them into the splugorth slave market since it's easy money. The Splugorth slavers are used specifically for targets that the splugorth want enslaved; either for economic or political reasons.

[MikelAmroni]

After further reading the Kittani description .. and multiple other Racial classes to make sure I know and or understand them ..
The Slaver is thee only one other then the BWW's that actively .. well .. enslave ..
Which means to me (as I personally understand it) that they are the defacto only slaver units (least again so far as I can understand) in the splugorthian empires ..
Which in my personal opinion, means there are various "tiers" of Slavers .. from the regular SDC one's to the MDC one's and quite possibly .. even the one's who have power equivelent to that of highlords .. (to take down the toughest of the slave's they hunt)
What do you think ?

Meh, its a bit oversimplistic to say that only the Slavers and BWW enslave. Look at the Splugorth Slaver Raider in WB 6: South America. 12 barges and 60 BWW, and a COMPANY of Kittani in Serpent and Equestrian Armor (and maybe the flying Fox PA too - wasn't created when the ship was). A Company is overkill for ship security, but perfect for using some for ship security and some for heavy weapons backup and hard target takedowns to back up the slavers (who are the de-facto slaving operation scouts).

Now I'm not saying you're wrong, per se. You very well could assume a tiered heirarchy of progressively more bad to the bone iterations of the Slaver. I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean anyone else shouldn't. I mean you don't throw Slavers at godlings and dragons, no matter how buffed they are. Well you can, but you'd best expect them to die, or to run away. Now if they get lucky enough to land a bunch of hits from penalty assessing and knockout type attacks and you can capture anyone - eventually you're going to roll a 1 on a save, and it will snowball from there. But that's a matter of tossing numbers at the problem, and while the Splugorth can, its not profitable. And besides, if you're going to do that as a GM, then you might as well narrate them through the battle and let them know how many they took out before they were captured.

Like I said, I'm not trying to say you can't, but even unlimited wealth doesn't mean a lack of common sense (if an enemy keeps killing loads of minions, set a bounty, and pull operations back so they don't encounter the enemy until the situation resolves itself).

[Lenwen]

After further reading the Kittani description .. and multiple other Racial classes to make sure I know and or understand them ..
The Slaver is thee only one other then the BWW's that actively .. well .. enslave ..
Which means to me (as I personally understand it) that they are the defacto only slaver units (least again so far as I can understand) in the splugorthian empires ..
Which in my personal opinion, means there are various "tiers" of Slavers .. from the regular SDC one's to the MDC one's and quite possibly .. even the one's who have power equivelent to that of highlords .. (to take down the toughest of the slave's they hunt)
What do you think ?

Meh, its a bit oversimplistic to say that only the Slavers and BWW enslave. Look at the Splugorth Slaver Raider in WB 6: South America. 12 barges and 60 BWW, and a COMPANY of Kittani in Serpent and Equestrian Armor (and maybe the flying Fox PA too - wasn't created when the ship was). A Company is overkill for ship security, but perfect for using some for ship security and some for heavy weapons backup and hard target takedowns to back up the slavers (who are the de-facto slaving operation scouts).

I've only ever viewed the Kittani compliment as sorta a backup to the Slaver's not slavers themselves but if the proverbial pewp hit the fan .. the Kittani would come in .. much like the CS does with its own PA's supporting the troops..

Now I'm not saying you're wrong, per se. You very well could assume a tiered heirarchy of progressively more bad to the bone iterations of the Slaver. I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean anyone else shouldn't. I mean you don't throw Slavers at godlings and dragons, no matter how buffed they are.

Splurgorthian sociaty is all about augmentation. Absolutly every aspect is about aquiring power .. as such, I find it literally no stretch of the imagination to say that there are in fact tiered aspects to the Slavers.

64+ attacks vs a dragon/godling .. with the right preparation for battle, the Splugorthian Slaver should beat either of them with little to no problem .. (Dragon or Godling)

Especially with the right modifications to the slaver from the start .. they can be more powerful then either a dragon or a Godling dependent upon which way you decide to take it..

Like I said, I'm not trying to say you can't, but even unlimited wealth doesn't mean a lack of common sense (if an enemy keeps killing loads of minions, set a bounty, and pull operations back so they don't encounter the enemy until the situation resolves itself).

Tho that might hold true to some earth based powerblocks .. it would not be so for the Splugorthian's transdimensional empire type's .. Not saying their stupidly using only vast numbers to win what they want .. simply that if they wished to do such, they very well could..

[Wooly]

I have always wondered once the slavers have their captives under control how do they move them to the Kittani hovercraft for transport? Herding them on foot seems very inefficient, especially as they go raiding further inland. I mean these guys are professional slavers. Is there a vehicle I over looked or is this a massive plasusibilty fail in what has been written on the Splugorths slaving empire?

[dragonfett]

I have always wondered once the slavers have their captives under control how do they move them to the Kittani hovercraft for transport? Herding them on foot seems very inefficient, especially as they go raiding further inland. I mean these guys are professional slavers. Is there a vehicle I over looked or is this a massive plasusibilty fail in what has been written on the Splugorths slaving empire?

What about how things get transported from city to city. I mean, Mountaineer ATV's and APC's would be inefficient. Where are the transport vehicles? I'll tell you where, not in the books. Why? Because it would be too dull for such a cool setting. I am guessing the same thing is going on with slave transports.

[Wooly]

There is a massive NG transit vehicle in Sourcebook 1 revised and expanded IIRC.

Rescuing slaves is sort of a classic Rifts adventure hook and the Splugorth are sort of a main villian. I mean they made it on both RMB and RUE covers.

I definitely see potential for a Rifter article.

My vision would be a smaller version of the Splugorth Slaver Raider (South America, p.152 ) that would have improved performance on land.

[Colt47]

There is a massive NG transit vehicle in Sourcebook 1 revised and expanded IIRC.

Rescuing slaves is sort of a classic Rifts adventure hook and the Splugorth are sort of a main villian. I mean they made it on both RMB and RUE covers.

I definitely see potential for a Rifter article.

My vision would be a smaller version of the Splugorth Slaver Raider (South America, p.152 ) that would have improved performance on land.

The Splugorth are more of a presence then a main villain. The problem is that unlike a lot of the factions of Rifts Earth, it is made pretty clear that next to an act of God there isn't anything that will be able to defeat Splynn. Instead, he tends to have his eyes just about everywhere on Rifts Earth except for China. He distributes goods that are powerful but have significant costs attached to them, much like the shop keeper in the Pet Shop of Horrors. Likewise, he tends to either hinder or aid adventurers depending on either his mood or his long term plans.

Now in the 3 galaxies setting things are a bit different since the players are generally on a higher scale.

[dragonfett]

The problem is that unlike a lot of the factions of Rifts Earth, it is made pretty clear that next to an act of God there isn't anything that will be able to defeat Splynn.

It really depends on what you mean by defeat Splynn. If you mean kill him, then yeah, it would take almost an act of God (i.e., GM). But if you mean hinder and stop his expansionist plans on Rifts Earth, then I think it's perfectly possible for a group of players to "defeat" him.

[DBX]

The problem is that unlike a lot of the factions of Rifts Earth, it is made pretty clear that next to an act of God there isn't anything that will be able to defeat Splynn.

It really depends on what you mean by defeat Splynn. If you mean kill him, then yeah, it would take almost an act of God (i.e., GM). But if you mean hinder and stop his expansionist plans on Rifts Earth, then I think it's perfectly possible for a group of players to "defeat" him.

I think players charcters (4-8) group, even at deity level will be little more than a nuisance to him

Most player groups will be little more than ants to be stepped on. At best they can hope to derail and delay his plans. Player characters are wild cards for his amusements - they affect his plans in hours, days, months possibly years but that is meaningless to a being who thinks in decades, centuries and millennia

I think it will be easier for player groups to kill him (assassinate him) that shift him from Atlantis

Short of other major powerhouses actively going to war with him, there is very little anyone can do budge him. I think Naruni Enterprises on the warpath could possibly go toe to toe with him -but there would be nothing left of them afterwards, and that is only if the other splugorth lords don't pitch in to help him to retain Atlantis.

IMO Atlantis is the ACE up his tentacle. It means that if anything threatens his hold of it- the other splugorth lords will help him to keep a hold of it (or at least in Splugorthian control). Without Atlantis other splugorth lords are likely to be first in line to overthrow him if they sense weakness

[Colt47]

The problem is that unlike a lot of the factions of Rifts Earth, it is made pretty clear that next to an act of God there isn't anything that will be able to defeat Splynn.

It really depends on what you mean by defeat Splynn. If you mean kill him, then yeah, it would take almost an act of God (i.e., GM). But if you mean hinder and stop his expansionist plans on Rifts Earth, then I think it's perfectly possible for a group of players to "defeat" him.

Yeah I was being a little vague in that statement. Defeat means stopping him from being able to have a significant presence on Rifts Earth. No matter what, Atlantis has been built up and will be the way it is whether Splynn is there or not, and Atlantis pretty much embodies what Splynn is.

[Colt47]

Need an act of god? Well if none of the gods in this dimension are up to the task, could always go to another....

Really, with the way the Rifts RPG has countless worlds, dimensions, and not to mention time travel, having on faction be defeated is never impossible. I never get these threads about which force could defeat enemy X...

In Rifts, if you can't defeat an opponent through brains or brawn, find someone who can. Rifts is just that easy.
-Pax

My post wasn't about X force beating Y force.

[Killer Cyborg]

I mean look at their size and mass, and then the fact that they only have 2d6x10 HP. A bad roll would mean that their bodies are more fragile that that of a first level wizard. How pathetic is that? Even a max roll of 120, they still have far less than the average Juicer, and they look like they like they SHOULD be able to to handle a Juicer by themselves without needing their barges or magic or other enhancement.

... if you take a look at the pictures of them and their description, I still think that they should at least have like 2d6x100 SDC.

Alright, I'm looking. They're 10-12' tall, and probably 3-4' broad at the shoulders.
I agree that the low end of the scale (20 HP), it seems out of whack, and maybe that should be fixed.
But a first level mage could have as low as 14 SDC and 4 HP, if they rolled all minimums, which is actually lower than the Slaver.
The thing to keep in mind is that PCs are tougher than normal. They're a notch above the rest, at least.
Juicers are insanely boosted in the area of SDC/HP. A unarmored Juicer can potentially take hits from a LAW rocket and still be standing.

And average pistol (say, a .38) does 3d6 SDC per shot, for an average of 10.5 SDC per shot.
A Slaver has an average of 70 HP, which means it would take 7 average shots from a pistol to drop the thing (which isn't the same as killing it).
Not too shabby, but not too great.

An elephant has 2d4x10 HP and 4d6+30 SDC, for an average of 94 HP/SDC combined.
That's more than the average slaver, but not by a heck of a lot.

Still, I think that you make a good point, and the slavers should have more going for them.
If I was going to boost them, I would rule that the stats are only the base: the natural, un-enhanced creature.
I'd chalk up the lack of SDC a side effect of melding them to the Barge.
But it wouldn't be unusual for the Splugorth to enhance their minions further.
-Use the Bio-Wizardry "Increase SDC" option to give them an extra 300 SDC. This would be standard.
-Allow a MDC transformation for only the most loyal and highly prized slavers.
-Allow Transmortifiers to be used when the Splugorth need a more powerful servant, but they're not too concerned about its well-being. (Still not too common, as it's expensive)
-Heart Worms. Any time the slavers are being used as cannon fodder against powerful foes.
(Or, if you want to boost them further, you could rule that the healing properties of the slime keep the heart worms from being fatal to the Slaver, and these could be used as standard, or close to it)
-Absurr Life Node, Chest Amalgamate, Elom, etc. The cost would affect how often these are used.

[MikelAmroni]

But it wouldn't be unusual for the Splugorth to enhance their minions further.
-Use the Bio-Wizardry "Increase SDC" option to give them an extra 300 SDC. This would be standard.

I think this is perhaps the easiest, quickest and most agreed upon option really. Just add 300 SDC and you have your average, but not special, tough slaver. Maybe its a traditional reward for their 1000th slave, or 100th if its big and valuable. So you could have book bare bones slavers that are very limited in experience, and then higher experienced ones with SDC, and then maybe more stuff if they have a lot more slaves under their belt.

[GangreneTVP]

Magic Weapons and Abilities:
1. Force Field(Armor of Ithan): Engage instantly and automatically when attacked or threatened by any means, physical, energy, magic, psionic, etc. (no there is no chance to blast before the force field is in place). Provides maximum protections and mobility; can fight using tentacles.

MDC by Location:
Minions Tentacles (8): 30 each
Minion main body: 300
Slave Barge main body: 500
Barge Shields (4): 100 each
Barge eyes (5): 50 each
Floating eyes (5): 50 each
Eye-Staff (1): 30 M.D.C.

+4 to strike, +10 to parry, +4 to dodge, +6 on initiative...

9. Barge Stats: Main Body 500 MDC... From the flavor text "Minion slavers forsake their natural body to physically become one with the techno-magic of the Splugorth slave barge. Does that mean they essentially have 500 MDC as they "become one"?

500 MDC shields + 500 Main Body MDC = 1,000 MDC... Seems pretty tough to me... and with a +10 parry... hitting it in HtH is going to be tough...

It is confusing though... as they have hit points... Another creature that only has hit points are Vampires where they are basically immune to almost all attacks, but are susceptible to certain items which only effect hit points. I wonder if something like that was supposed to be part of the slaver... Later in 9 it says "The slime chamber is also a healing unit that restores 1d6x10 hit points for every 10 minutes of submersion... What's going to hit them and cause hit point damage that wouldn't outright kill them if they had only hit points? We know from "3:" that hitting the staff does 10 hit points of damage to the slaver for every 1 M.D.C. point of damage the staff receives. That makes me suspicious that maybe they were intended to have immunity to all but particular items which would only then affect their hit points, like a vampire, but they could also heal them back if that rare event would happen.

Alternatively Do they submerge when under grave attack, loss of shields, so that only the barge itself can be attacked and not their body directly?

Another whole confusing aspect is that a their tentacles, claws, and bite ALL do MDC damage. We know in real life that all actions have a equal and opposite reaction... so how could SDC structure inflict MDC damage without destroying itself? This really lends me to think a key detail was left out of the books... something that makes these creatures and their hit point nature closer to the hit point based vampires where normal MDC damage doesn't even scratch them...

Then we have the 4 blind warrior women... I wouldn't want my party to run across a barge. Sounds like an opponent that would be nearly impossible to defeat without "S class" heroes.

Even if you take the weakest interpretation they have 300 MDC from their shields, but there is no additional information on how many times they can activate the shield, maybe it's always on, and if it is ... How fast do those barge based magical shields regenerate? So, 300 MDC. those shields go down the slaver sinks into the barge slime chamber which the barge has another 500 MDC in shields and 500 MDC in structure... So 1300 MDC to take it down. If you get into HtH and say they can hit the slaver inside the slime chamber, it still had a combined 800 MDC in Shields to get through... and I think it would be getting out of there quickly should it be in that defensive of a stance. It can still see with all of the eyes, so going down into the slime chamber should be no barrier to navigation and fleeing.

Warning: Topic Locked for bumping a discussion that's been dead for 11 years. ~Mack