Looking for Firepower - Have idea.

[Holister]

See ya later

[Lord Z]

Interesting stuff, Hollister! Congratulations on your table top game going well.

I am not knowledgable, but I do have a few thoughts. First, I don't have a character who will help. Anna is my chemist, but she will have nothing to do with Lazlos at this stage in her career.

No amount of damage from a gun will bne adequate if you can't get the bullets into a target. If using book rules, all of these weapons are useless until rolling above the armor rating of the demon. Heavy weapons like these are slow to aim. It's still a good strategy, just something to keep in mind.

Have you considered a grenade launcher of some type? RPGs have great stopping power, and the blast effect means that targets are more likely to take at least some damage.

If a belt fed mini-gun doesn't have enough enough stopping power for you, maybe guns aren't the answer. The character of Hollister would disagree, of course, because he is a gun guy. More varied tactics are what I mean.

For example, has anyone tried psi-devices which create incapacitating effects? The Court of Tarot using stunners and electric batons which harness the psi-powers of Electrokenesis & Induce Sleep together. A psi-device using the powers of perhaps Alter Air Temperature & Focus Heat Point (drawing heat away from the target) could create that freezing effect you are wanting. A tracking device could be made using Sense Evil to improve accuracy -- that tactic was actually used by a techno-wizard character in an old Rifter article.

Training a gorilla to gun caddy for your character is a great idea. I fully support it.

Einstien-Bose condesates, the fifth stage of matter, have several strange properties. They don't create extreme cold but result from it. Generating that level of cold outside of a laboratory would require incredibly high technology, maybe centuries beyond us. That being said, yeah, a high level genius-type could probably figure out a way to do it. At the nexus nine boards, I challenged folks to come up with applications for the stuff. The only answer generated was for ice in the deadliest hockey rink of all time.

[mrloucifer]

No amount of damage from a gun will bne adequate if you can't get the bullets into a target. If using book rules, all of these weapons are useless until rolling above the armor rating of the demon. Heavy weapons like these are slow to aim. It's still a good strategy, just something to keep in mind.

Ive had the same train of thought, and its become a staple with my "gun toter" player to use high powered rifles and whatnot with better aiming capability as the AR issue does damper the potential of creating and even using such illegal weaponry. Cons far outweighed the pro's.

[mrloucifer]

This same player has grown to LOVE flamethrowing and explosive type of weaponry as they can bypass the AR issue in general. Or at least they can in my game.

[Holister]

Later

[mrloucifer]

Ive never really had a problem with AC/AR before. I guess it helps when you have a (+10) natural bonus to hit with a sniper rifle (not including a +4 bonus from the weapon iteself). Called shots...not a problem. Hit that gargoyle in the eye; sure just give me a sec to adjust for the wind.

How on god's green earth does anyone get a +10 bonus to hit w/ a sniper rifle, especially not including bonuses??

[Holister]

Later

[Cybermancer]

Ive never really had a problem with AC/AR before. I guess it helps when you have a (+10) natural bonus to hit with a sniper rifle (not including a +4 bonus from the weapon iteself). Called shots...not a problem. Hit that gargoyle in the eye; sure just give me a sec to adjust for the wind.

How on god's green earth does anyone get a +10 bonus to hit w/ a sniper rifle, especially not including bonuses??

That depends. Old BtS or new?

[mrloucifer]

Mostly WP and Sniper skill bonuses, Dex bonuses, with "class bonuses".

I'm compelled to remind you that dex bonuses are not added to modern weapons; see page 166 for details. So I can see a +6 at level 7 with a +2 Sniper bonus and you could potentially add +2 via the Natural Athlete ability, but I dont know how you'd get to a +10 much less +14 like your saying.

I get testy on this subject as bonuses that high throws off game balance and game play, and the dice & luck factor (chance)gets removed from the picture in the process. I watch my players bonuses like a hawk because of this.

[Holister]

Later

[mrloucifer]

I think that Palladium needs to MODERNIZE the weapon's compendium and bring it up to date like they did with their other 2nd editions.

They have taken a big step in that direction with Dead Reign sourcebook, I encourage you to take a peek.

[Lord Z]

This is why I wrote 'If using book rules' in my earlier post.

Another option I have used in the past is using the Armor Rating stat as a damage-absorption measurement rather than a target for accuracy. It seems to me that if a character is seeking a weak spot in a target's defenses, there is already a rule mechanic for that, the called shot.

I would be interested in seeing that WP Chainsaw skill. Over at the Nexus Nine boards, Mantis King is creating stats for a variety of state-of-the-art guns & other weapon systems.

[mrloucifer]

I would be interested in seeing that WP Chainsaw skill. Over at the Nexus Nine boards, Mantis King is creating stats for a variety of state-of-the-art guns & other weapon systems.

OOH! Keep us in the know oh-Z-man, Lord of Lord Z's!

[mrloucifer]

I would be interested in seeing that WP Chainsaw skill. Over at the Nexus Nine boards, Mantis King is creating stats for a variety of state-of-the-art guns & other weapon systems.

OOH! Keep us in the know oh-Z-man, Lord of Lord Z's!

[Lord Z]

Link to Mantis King's thread! ...which in turn links back to tghis forum when discussing stun weapons.

[Jasper]

WP Chainsaw? I don't know... I've worked with a chainsaw in the past for a living and swinging one around as a weapon I doubt is ever going to be a good idea as a general rule. Sure they would do horrific damage (hmm, and as a chainsaw wielding opponenet you would probably even have your own H.F.) but they aren't balanced for swinging around wildly and the chains are more fragile then you might think. Hitting something like a metal pole or "rocking out" against the ground gives a chances of snapping the chain and then you have a high speed chain whipping out ready to flay someone's face, quite likely the wielder's. Also you'd get large penalites for parrying. Running with a chainsaw is not a good idea if you are chasing someone. All chainsaws nowadays have brake bars and automatic shutoffs if dropped but these can be disabled but otherwise you need two hands to use them. If the brake bar is't disabled your opponent could potentially just hit it and shut down your chain's spinning lol (if he wants to risk getting past your blade anyway).

Thinking about it a chainsaw might be great against unarmed or unskilled opponents but against someone with a weapon who knows how to use it? He is going to hand you your ass unless you get lucky.

Now practising with one (and developing the WP) would be possible for sure, people learn all kinds of crazy things but I'd think having a high PS and PE would be invaluable to using one in combat. They are balanced poorly for swinging and heavy despite that. A couple rounds of swinging one around at an dodging opponent is going to have most people sweating and out of breath. True most people aren't Player Characters but still I'd think you'd need the stats for it, at least 16s in both PS and PE to be able to use a chainsaw as a reliable weapon. And though Palladium has no fumble tables for a chainsaw user I'd make an exception and house rule one.

[glitterboy2098]

Wow, who you got for a pack mule? King Kong?

M-134 6 barrel 7.62 mm chain gun weighs in at 52 lbs without ammo or power supply (does include ammo tray)

it also requires a 24 volt, 58 amp Direct Current power supply. meaning the smallest power supply you can hope to employ is a portable generator. the kind you use for electric arc welding or running entire houses..

The M2 is likewise not a light toy, with the barrel alone weighing in at around the same weight as an M-16.

.50 calibre ammo weighs a couple ounces a shot, or around 25 lbs per hundred round belt (not sure if that was DUC or not)

imagine the recoil on the thing too. a .50 is heavy recoil as is. an M2 pretty much has to be vehicle mounted or tripod mount to hold up, and it's only a couple hundred rounds a minute. a M-134 firing .50BMG would be putting out between 2000 to 6000 RndPM.. your looking at an increase of recoil of at least two magnitudes..

I could see the gun it's self possibly being man packable (hell I always carried the 134 out to the helo like Ahnold in T2 - but that was without the ammo or power supply, and it still made my arms and shoulders hurt for hours just from carying the damn thing like that) but the power supply to spin the barrels, as well as the fact that you probly want more than a quarter second burst (100 rounds each barrel in a quarter second if it's timing is set slow) likely relegates the weapon you described to being vehicle mounted, and that's without discussing recoil controll and compensation.

i'd find it unlikely you could mount the thing on anything lighter than a tank and still expect to fire it safely. a fifty cal minigun in't a weapon, it's a frigging rocket drive with bullets as remass...


besides, i'd think a normal M-134 would suffice. 4D6 sd per round, with bursts being somewhere like 40 to 60 rounds, for a x20 or x30 damage modifier... (based on rifle burst mods) your looking at somewhere between 80 and 480 sd or 120 and 720 sd per burst...


or you could invest in anti-tank rockets. a Dragon or javelin ATGM would be doing at least 1D6x100 sd to the target...

if you want to play up your strengths, look into 20mm anti-material rifles. like the Lahti L-39, to use a historical example, or the sn55 to use a more modern one... low rate of fire, and maybe not as much 'weight" of fire, but you can put those sniper skills to good use to do more than normal damage. plus 20mm has lots of projectile types available, including explosive, incendiary, armor peircing, armor peircing explosive, and armor pericing fin stabilized discarding sabot....lots of fun..

if you've got the money to burn, you might be able to pick up one of the prototype [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM29_OICW[/url]XM29 Objective Individual combat weapons[/url], with 20mm "grenade launcher" (really a stub barrel cannon.. ), or the XM25 "grenade launcher"...the Xm29 is a dead project, but the XM25 is actually being feild tested right now..

for vehicle mounted, you could probably use a Mk38 25mm bushmaster...or a M40 106mm recoilless rifle..

[Jefffar]

Good news, the weapon you want exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-19

Bad news, the weapon, without ammunition weighs in at 139 lbs. 150 rounds of ammunition would come in at an additional 40 lbs or so. You also require a 24 volt dc power source or a 4 hp motor to operate the weapon. This is before you add things to it like a handle so you can hold it, boxes to carry the ammunition, some kind of harness arrangement so you can

According to the manufacturer's website. In the ground role (mounted on a Hummer BTW) the weapon weighs a total 480 lbs before you load it up with ammunition.

Worse news, it also generates 500 lbs of recoil when firing, so any human being trying to wield one would be on his back hosing the sky, even if he were incredibly strong. Without a well braced ground mount, or weighing 1000 lbs, the weapon described wouldn't be controllable.

Besides, if a .50 rifle isn't doing it, you'd better have an anti-tank weapon with you anyway.

[Holister]

Later

[Jefffar]

Like I said. If .50 rounds won't do it, lots of .50 rounds won't do any better.

Start looking at anti-tank weapons if a .50 ain't enough for ya.

[Blindscout]

With the proper spells, wouldn't the fire elemental be considered man portable?

[mrloucifer]

With the proper spells, wouldn't the fire elemental be considered man portable?

You can get burned pretty bad playing with those kind of matches.