Share Spells

[Grandil]

Personally, I allow mages in a party to share spells, how bout everyone?
the first vote was mine, of course.

[Grandil]

There's a blurb about this in the Book of Magic (pg 13). Check it out.

Essentially, it states that the "very nature, background, and training of all practitioners of magic, particularly the Ley Line Walker, Necromancer, Biomancer, Bio-Wizard, and Shifter, among others, are steeped in a tradition of elitism and secrecy".

I agree with the book. Mages may be occasionally be inclined to trade spells from levels 1-4, but should be increasingly reluctant to share mid-level and advanced spell knowledge.

I Agree with this in priniciple, But when it comes to a Party-you tend to share spells that
actually help the whole party.......

[Grandil]

I think its something you should not be inclined to interfere with as a GM. Its up to the players really.

Now if you wanna start specifying spells as belonging to a certain spell casting devotion... I could easily see a house rule for that... like Ley Line magic is just different then shifter magic... and really they should be since the source of energy is different. If you did some kind of house rule for this... I would suggest making the levels 1-4 spells general and lowly enough that the caster can reinterpret another magic technique into their own discipline to get the idea of how to cast that spell. But once you start to get to level 5 and above they depth of the specific casting flavor becomes more than a different caster can convert into their magic. This might make learning magic from the random man of magic NPC they encounter harder... but it could also make it so that wandering caster might have scrolls he doesn't understand that he would be willing to let go more cheaply.... and you can let them find treasure of spell scrolls they can't understand as well.

PS... I would also NOT go overboard with this and start splitting the list of spells up into "Shifter Spells" and "Ley Line Spells"... just make every spell available somewhere out there in the flavor of magic for each OCC.

PSS... a question. I've been away from Rifts for a fair amount of gaming time (as in actively been playing other systems) but is there any compendium that takes every spell out there and puts them all into one big source book? I know the Book of Magic is out there but I've not gotten it yet.... and I was assuming it was new OCC's and stuff. Does the Book of Magic do this compilation I would love to see?


PSSS... About the secrecy. I think that is mainly in regards to non-casters, since you know... in North America being identified as a cast can get you killed depending on where you are.

Yes the BoM takes all the spells as of publication & puts them in a reference book, They only
have 1 O.C.C. in the book, & thats the Stone Mage.
Trusting a party member is really part of it also.
I agree with this moreso that what Rogue Scientist said-It depends on the party.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The conditions are , that the two mages have to work out between them which spells they want to trade, and have the time 'in game' to teach each other the spells.

[The Dark Elf]

I allow them to share spells but always at a price. A return spell, magic item or money. it must also be role played for the scenario and not just two wizards boosting their spell list over the campfire.

[Mouser13]

I like to trade spells the problem is the time it takes. 2-30 days on the GM screen. Then again it says armor takes 3-5 days to repair 10M.D.C. I don't see anyone playing that and a week to get mini-missiles on the black market.

[kamikazzijoe]

The few mages we've had were so distrustful they wouldn't share magic even when the opportunities came up. Something about the you mega-mage calling the old timer a youngin' apprentice

[Damian Magecraft]

Something about the you mega-mage calling the old timer a youngin' apprentice

What's a "mega mage"?

sounds like the HU mage with the Mega-hero template to me...

[Killer Cyborg]

There's a blurb about this in the Book of Magic (pg 13). Check it out.

Essentially, it states that the "very nature, background, and training of all practitioners of magic, particularly the Ley Line Walker, Necromancer, Biomancer, Bio-Wizard, and Shifter, among others, are steeped in a tradition of elitism and secrecy".

I agree with the book. Mages may be occasionally be inclined to trade spells from levels 1-4, but should be increasingly reluctant to share mid-level and advanced spell knowledge.

I Agree with this in priniciple, But when it comes to a Party-you tend to share spells that
actually help the whole party.......

That would depend on why the party is together, how important their quest/job is, what spells are being considered, whether the mages in question get along, and a lot of other factors.

In general, though, even mages on the same team see each other as something of competitors. You never teach somebody in the same trade all your tricks, or even most of them, because next time they might get hired over you.
Or promoted.
Or rewarded.
Or simply praised.
Or they might use the spell against an enemy that you'll later encounter, and that'll be one less surprise trick you'll have up your sleeve.
Not saying that this will always matter, but the general idea is that few people will willingly bring themselves closer to obsolescence.

On the other hand, I don't know that it would be all that rare to allow mages in a party to trade spells... unless one of the mages is giving up the only decent spell that the other mage doesn't already know.

[dragonfett]

I do more with Shifters and LLW's, but in return I won't give them the access to as many spells either to compensate for that. Now if I have a Shifter and a LLW who AREN'T sharing spells (or two other mages that can cast the same type of spells), then I will increase what spells they have access to. However as a GM, I have yet to encounter this.

[Grandil]

you should always just play a mystic... that way you can't be asked to share spells!

My Bio-Sis (who happens to be a Psychologist) Says "you never use the word should". It's an
imperative, that forces ppl to try to do what you want them to. Philosophers say the same
thing.

[kamikazzijoe]

Something about the you mega-mage calling the old timer a youngin' apprentice

What's a "mega mage"?

sounds like the HU mage with the Mega-hero template to me...

Correct. His power level made him change his name from equinox to ego-nox

[Grandil]

you should always just play a mystic... that way you can't be asked to share spells!

My Bio-Sis (who happens to be a Psychologist) Says "you never use the word should". It's an
imperative, that forces ppl to try to do what you want them to. Philosophers say the same
thing.

Except for the fact I was using it that way. You should never say never cause maybe you do.

You're right, here's an original thought-there are no absolutes, only paradoxes, & there are no
paradoxes, only absolutes There u go again, oh well, I guess you can say that all u want, it still doesn't change ppl. it's just the way it is for you.

[GaredBattlespike]

Greetings!
We have rather small groups, mostly 2-4 PC's and 1-4 NPC's at maximum, so this is rarely an issue.
However, in a recent game, a PC NightBane Sorcerer and his old Master swapped a few spells and it was fine, as the Spells the PC got were Spells that the GM WANTED him to have for the upcomming Chronicle (long story arc/long adventure). Also, as the Mages were taking time to swap Spells the rest of us were swapping SKILLS! Using the BtS Education Rules (1st Ed.) Us Non-Casters were cross-training with Lores, WP's and a few other Skills (Kristen NEEDED to learn the Cooking Skill before her attempts KILLED somebody! Our GM allows many Skills to be attempted with a Base Roll and a Penalty. Kristen almost always rolled 80+ on Cooking to make COFFEE and darn near poisoned us !!!)!

Never worry about becomming obsolete in a game world where hero mortality is worse than many war zones, just make sure you have the Skills/Spells/Psionics/Talents/Bionics/Gear to contribute to the Party's survival!

Good Gaming, GaredBattlespike

[Grandil]

i've not have any players play magic users. I might make the flavors of magic not compatible.

Then players get resourceful, & buy Through the Glass Darkly, & Poof there goes your
incompatability........go ahead & do it! Dare ya!

[Grandil]

you should always just play a mystic... that way you can't be asked to share spells!

Until UE, the mystic, as well as the shifter, were severely limited. There are several mystics
that do share spells-the Paradox Shaman, & other native american Shaman'.

[Grandil]

I like to trade spells the problem is the time it takes. 2-30 days on the GM screen. Then again it says armor takes 3-5 days to repair 10M.D.C. I don't see anyone playing that and a week to get mini-missiles on the black market.

The temporal spell "Time Warp Fast Forward" makes this a mockery.....

[JuliusCreed]

While i do allow players to share their spells with whomever they see fit, I strongly discourage it because of the mages' basic tenets on not sharing the secrets of their craft with anyone. usually they don't share anyway and rarely are there more than 2 spellcasters in any of my player groups anyway, but the principle of it being allowed is still the same anyway.

[Grandil]

Most of my campaign is filled with Magic types/psionic types, so it is natural part of the group
to share-in a time hole.

[St. Evil]

I would allow it as long as it is roleplayed well, however their is something two be said about to wizards fighting over the scroll w/ and 8th level spell on it.

[Grandil]

so far the yeas have it!

[Armorlord]

I'd be a little iffy about magic-users of different 'schools', as it were, trading spells, but wouldn't flinch if two of the same class choose to share though. Wouldn't ban it, outside of those that are truly alien styles to each other, just caution the players about it.

[strtkwr]

I would allow it. The players should have control over how their characters feel about it.

[Grandil]

I'd be a little iffy about magic-users of different 'schools', as it were, trading spells, but wouldn't flinch if two of the same class choose to share though. Wouldn't ban it, outside of those that are truly alien styles to each other, just caution the players about it.

I agree, but when you consider Through the Glass darkly. Different Schools, as in Chi
Magic/Ocean Magic, Temporal, Necromantic, ect? or different Types of O.C.C's? Plz define.......

[Armorlord]

I'd be a little iffy about magic-users of different 'schools', as it were, trading spells, but wouldn't flinch if two of the same class choose to share though. Wouldn't ban it, outside of those that are truly alien styles to each other, just caution the players about it.

I agree, but when you consider Through the Glass darkly. Different Schools, as in Chi
Magic/Ocean Magic, Temporal, Necromantic, ect? or different Types of O.C.C's? Plz define.......

Mainly in the Ocean, Temporal, Biomancy, etc sense. Those under different headings in the Book of Magic, though OCC is also important. For example a Mystic can't learn spells, and shouldn't be able to teach them either. Temporal Wizards can learn Incantations, so it should be possible for them to teach to someone that can learn Incantations, but they went through a grueling apprenticeship to a temporal raider to earn access to Temporal spells, they should be hesitant to share those even when not considering other Temporal Magic users might get pissed if they found out their spells were getting leaked.
Basically, if they can both learn spells of the same type/category, it should be possible for them to share spells, but if someone also has access to a more exclusive spell list it should be taken into account how difficult it is for the OCC to learn or use, or any other associated hang-ups.
If they can't learn spells of the same type, then usually it wouldn't be possible outside of training hard enough to actually cross into the class needed to gain access to a completely different school.