RCC + OCC = ?

[keir451]

Hey Ryu. All this fuss over nuthin' . First off; Heck Yeah the Palladium system is broken, that's partly why Kevin came out w/RUE.
But anyway, in this instance RCC is refering to a specific class that can only be held/obtained by a certain race because of that races abilities or some other racial reason. Case in point; the Omaguan Cats (yes it's old, but true). Only an Omaguan Cat can have one of their RCCs. Why? Because they're specific to the mutant cats from Omagua and their special abilities, no other mutant cat can be/have their RCCs.
Drewkitty is right tho' race(i.e.; Dwarf, Elf, Human, etc.) does not equal RCC.
As for multi classing; the only reference comes from Palladium Fantasy (no shock there, nearly half the game material is drawn from PF), and even that reference isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Dragonfett is also correct, as far as the actual rules state, and the fact that it's a murky rule as well.

[Damian Magecraft]

Not discussing Fantasy character generation over the Rifts character generation.

I'm pretty I remember you pointing out references from Fantasy settings for your arguments.

Well, I hope you understand that it is quite unproductive to argue about an RPG rule, that I am pretty sure of, most understood since day one, and didn't conceive any notions of it being broken.

Actually, I have been trying to take that into account, but it honestly felt like to me that is what you were doing. As far as I can tell, the OP was wanting canonical rules on how to go about this, which no one has answered because you're not supposed to let an RCC take any OCC's. However, because of the way different authors took certain liberties with the term RCC, that is the most likely reason Kevin had to make that clarification in the RUE (the first logical opportunity to do so, really). But I do have to agree with you somewhat with how the rules have changed. The only rule that I can really think of of the top of my head that I do like that was introduced in the RUE was the fact that all spells of level 5 and lower only take one action to cast, so a LLW can't get interrupted while casting a simple Armor of Ithan or even a Globe of Daylight, but that is off topic.

When I first posted here, I merely explained what I understood to the original poster. And then, some members jumped on my explanation, like it was some sort of thing from beyond the grave, when it's actually how the RPG started, and still is so in my opinion. I pointed out where someone could possibly misinterpret them, and nobody didn't want to have it, and continued. So I stuck with my argument.

The only thing that I can see as far as the op is concerned is that Conversion Book 1 (unrevised) implies that the only OCC's (note that it says OCC's and not OCC skills, meaning that the RCC get's all of their special abilities and the special abilities of the OCC, except where it is specifically noted in the OCC description, like the Psycho Stalker) that an RCC can take are noted in their description. I would have to dig out and take a look at how the Revised version states it before I call it definitive. I personally don't like how that's worded, but as far as anything canon goes, that is the best that I have found so far.

In each character generation, there is a primary and secondary skill set that applies to the O.C.C. for the R.C.C. to know, in addition to the skills naturally known for it. Having only the natural skill set doesn't tell you what new skills, or even how many new skills you can learn, when you level up as an R.C.C. R.C.C.s can choose an O.C.C. skill set. If the R.C.C. states that it can become a Ley Line Walker O.C.C., that means the abilities are the same for both the R.C.C. and the O.C.C. This doesn't mean an R.C.C. turns itself into an O.C.C. The R.C.C. is an R.C.C. The R.C.C. is primary. The R.C.C. will not become human. The O.C.C. is for the skill sets with the compatible abilities, as stated in the R.C.C.

Hey Ryu. All this fuss over nuthin' . First off; Heck Yeah the Palladium system is broken, that's partly why Kevin came out w/RUE.
But anyway, in this instance RCC is refering to a specific class that can only be held/obtained by a certain race because of that races abilities or some other racial reason. Case in point; the Omaguan Cats (yes it's old, but true). Only an Omaguan Cat can have one of their RCCs. Why? Because they're specific to the mutant cats from Omagua and their special abilities, no other mutant cat can be/have their RCCs.
Drewkitty is right tho' race (i.e.; Dwarf, Elf, Human, etc.) does not equal RCC.
As for multi classing; the only reference comes from Palladium Fantasy (no shock there, nearly half the game material is drawn from PF), and even that reference isn't all it's cracked up to be. Dragonfett is also correct, as far as the actual rules state, and the fact that it's a murky rule as well.

The Mutant Cats in World Book 6: South America, have different variations of R.C.C., based on their abilities. You look back at the different variations of canines in the Dog Boy R.C.C., and you have a list of different bonuses that are available. The Canine R.C.C. states that it can take up the skill sets of the Dog Boy R.C.C. The Mutant Cats R.C.C. cannot, because it doesn't state that they could change their abilities amongst themselves. Hence, why the Mutant Cats R.C.C. are in multiple types within the general species category of the feline. Which sort of makes since that dogs and cats are different from one another, in the first place.

In part, I don't think Palladium is a broken system, though I do admit, there are a few typos here and there. But it doesn't hinder the game play, nor cause any problems to figure out. It will always come down to interpretation, before starting a game.

because the rules you cite are no longer valid. and your insistence that they are only continues to muddy the proper answer. No matter how much you want the old definition to be the accurate one it no longer is. to continue as if they are is trollish behavior. as it only appears as though you are intentionally trying to confuse the OP.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Hey Ryu. All this fuss over nuthin' . First off; Heck Yeah the Palladium system is broken, that's partly why Kevin came out w/RUE.
But anyway, in this instance RCC is referring to a specific class that can only be held/obtained by a certain race because of that races abilities or some other racial reason. Case in point; the Omaguan Cats (yes it's old, but true). Only an Omaguan Cat can have one of their RCCs. Why? Because they're specific to the mutant cats from Omagua and their special abilities, no other mutant cat can be/have their RCCs.
..snip.

Nice explanation Keir. You hit the mark.

[Zer0 Kay]

The topic has merit but this argument is stupid. If this goes on as long as the teleport thread I'll have to slay someone.

[drewkitty ~..~]

could you give me a link to that one so I can practice some necromancy on it....

[keir451]

Emperor Ryu wrote

The Mutant Cats in World Book 6: South America, have different variations of R.C.C., based on their abilities. You look back at the different variations of canines in the Dog Boy R.C.C., and you have a list of different bonuses that are available. The Canine R.C.C. states that it can take up the skill sets of the Dog Boy R.C.C. The Mutant Cats R.C.C. cannot, because it doesn't state that they could change their abilities amongst themselves. Hence, why the Mutant Cats R.C.C. are in multiple types within the general species category of the feline. Which sort of makes since that dogs and cats are different from one another, in the first place.

Certainly any Canid race/species(different from a Racial Character Class) can pick up the military training of a Dog Boy and through their own psionic abilities possibly mimic some of the natural abilities of the CS' Mutant Dogs, but the Dog Pack RCCs presented in the books still apply to a specific race w/ specific abilities, namely the CS' Mutant Dogs.
True, the Omaguan cats cannot change abilities because each of their abilities is specific to each breed of cat, just as the abilities of the CS Dog Boys are specific to them. Each of these groups could take a specific OCC on top/in place of their RCC but they will never, ever lose the special abilities that set them apart from other cats/canids.
The other reason I think(a strictly personal interpretation, I admit ) Omaguan cats cannot assume CS Dog/Cat roles is one of appearance; the project that produced the Omaguan cats was radically different than what the CS uses, not just in the work done, but in the animals used. All of the Omaguan Cats are of jungle feline species, while the CS ones are (to the best of my knowledge) "regular" North American feline species.
The issue of wether Palladiums rules are broken or not has been the subject of much heated debate on these forums , suffice to say that RUE did address some issues that were not addressed in the original RPG and (according to individual veiw points) did/did not address others, in the end I agree that it all comes down to personal interpretation of the rules.
Anyway, IIRC when picking up a new OCC only the skills that are the same between the two continue to advance, I do not recall any info in the rules about which bonuses to apply tho', perhaps another area to be addressed by some enteprising freelance author?
@Zer0kay; Yup this thread HAS gone on waaaayyyyy too long and I'm guilty of adding fuel to the fire, so I'll attempt to stop now.

[Zer0 Kay]

could you give me a link to that one so I can practice some necromancy on it....

Nope I had it locked after I changed the name to "The Thread That Doesn't End" I mean yes I can but there is no point... do you still want it?

[Damian Magecraft]

because the rules you cite are no longer valid.

They are still valid. And I do not consider Fantasy character generation over Rifts character generation, in the Rifts settings as stated in the books.

No the RMB is no longer readily available. The RUE is new Main Book Its rules are the ones that all new players will most likely be using; therefore the RMB is no longer current.
To insist other wise is only wishful thinking.

Plus you have a Quote from the RUE made by the creator and publisher defining exactly what an RCC is and what it is not. You are choosing to ignore that. or worse saying it is wrong. which will only confuse new comers to the game. That is why we only discuss current rules when discussing canon.

Elf, Dwarf, etc.. are given as races available for play in Rifts: conversion book one. Your argument that they are not valid Rifts races is spurious.

If you continue to insist that the Denizens of these boards know less than you it is only going get you placed on more and more ignore lists. (meaning they will not even see your posts directly any longer.) which will make having conversations and getting answers tyo questions difficult if not impossible for you.
The length of time you have been playing does have merit as does length of time on the boards but it does not mean that you are infallible when comes to rules interpretation.

[dragonfett]

The length of time you have been playing does have merit as does length of time on the boards but it does not mean that you are infallible when comes to rules interpretation.

Come on, if the writers have a hard time interpreting the rules, how can we mere mortals be expected to. **Dripping Sarcasm**

Emperor Ryu, suffice it to say that we agree to disagree on this topic, so let's just leave it at that. I have been playing since about 2001, so I got to learn everyone else's rules interpretations and house rules that they have been using for years at that time. That and the fact that I started off playing D&D first which no doubt influenced my interpretations of terminology. While you and your group started off with that definition of RCC that you keep quoting, I started playing Rifts being told that RCC means something else and that has been ingrained in my brain ever since.

[Crucible]

You have me confused with some one else if you think I am arguing for combining RCC and OCC. I was pointing out where the flaw was in the original post. (by being facetious in my post.)

I get it. The thing that is often ignored here at this board is that Kevin left a lot of things out and later says "its your game". I see a lot of ways to munchkin out, but if guys want to do it for THEIR game, its fine.

I allow Ninjas & Superspies and you would have nightmares at knowing what I actually allow.

[LostOne]

Hey Ryu. All this fuss over nuthin' . First off; Heck Yeah the Palladium system is broken, that's partly why Kevin came out w/RUE.

That's why every group I've ever played with or even heard of has a ton of house rules and I was surprised to see a thread at all that is trying to stick to the canon. Having played Rifts off and on for ~15 years now, as well as having participated back on the official Palladium Mailing List before the boards were created and on these boards off and on, this is the first thread I remember seeing that was trying to stick to the canon at all when there are simple house rules to resolve the issue on a case by case basis with a little GM fiat.

[Damian Magecraft]

No the RMB is no longer readily available. The RUE is new Main Book Its rules are the ones that all new players will most likely be using; therefore the RMB is no longer current. To insist other wise is only wishful thinking.

Plus you have a Quote from the RUE made by the creator and publisher defining exactly what an RCC is and what it is not.

Yes, . . . the Rifts Original Book is still, and will always be available for purchase. Either, paperback, hardcover, and now, PDF format.
you are going to have a hard time proving that... they are no longer in print.

As far as I am concern, until I get myself the Ultimate Edition Book, and see for myself. My argument still stands. You can disagree with the Rifts settings if you like. And go with the Fantasy settings. It's your game, and most definitely not mine.
in that case your argument is wrong and will continue to be until that day. Canon rules are the and always will be the most recent published set. accept this or dont but suffice it to say that any thing else you post will refuted as House Rules only until you accept the most recent rules set.
Oh, and that quote from the Ultimate Edition, is quite very similar to how it is stated in the original book too. nope not even close. nice try though... I have every book palladium has ever published, just re-read the description.

Elf, Dwarf, etc.. are given as races available for play in Rifts: conversion book one. Your argument that they are not valid Rifts races is spurious. If you continue to insist that the Denizens of these boards know less than you

I didn't say those R.C.C.s were being rejected. Where did you get that idea from? And why are you assuming I know more than everybody else on this board? This is getting even more weirder now.

we are not assuming that. You are. By the very way you post.
from here.

And I do not consider Fantasy character generation over Rifts character generation, in the Rifts settings as stated in the books.

and here.

You can disagree with the Rifts settings if you like. And go with the Fantasy settings.It's your game, and most definitely not mine.

you have already hit several ignore lists, keep making statements like these and soon no one will want to interact with you. (nor will they consider what you have to say as being accurate ever.)

[Damian Magecraft]

The original Rifts main book is no longer the cannon rule set for rifts, it's R;UE. Plain and simple like it or not, you can state otherwise but you are flat out wrong and that's that. And I am done . DM is correct by the way.

That is sooo sigged.

[LostOne]

You can disagree with the Rifts settings if you like. And go with the Fantasy settings.It's your game, and most definitely not mine.

you have already hit several ignore lists, keep making statements like these and soon no one will want to interact with you. (nor will they consider what you have to say as being accurate ever.)

I assume he doesn't care. It's not hard to make a new account when enough people have ignored him.

[dragonfett]

According from the quote from the Ultimate Edition, there is no change from the original book on this subject.

How so? I am having to guess that you are referring to where it says inhuman monster as part of the description, so let's break down the phrase for a moment, shall we.

Inhuman

in·hu·man   
[in-hyoo-muhn or, often, -yoo-] Show IPA
–adjective
1. lacking qualities of sympathy, pity, warmth, compassion, or the like; cruel; brutal: an inhuman master.
2. not suited for human beings.
3. not human.

Monster
mon·ster   
[mon-ster] Show IPA
–noun
1. a legendary animal combining features of animal and human form or having the forms of various animals in combination, as a centaur, griffin, or sphinx.
2. any creature so ugly or monstrous as to frighten people.
3. any animal or human grotesquely deviating from the normal shape, behavior, or character.
4. a person who excites horror by wickedness, cruelty, etc.
5. any animal or thing huge in size.
6. Biology .
a. an animal or plant of abnormal form or structure, as from marked malformation or the absence of certain parts or organs.
b. a grossly anomalous fetus or infant, esp. one that is not viable.
7. anything unnatural or monstrous.

–adjective
8. huge; enormous; monstrous: a monster tree.

Now compare this to the term humanoid, a term that I have often heard being applied to elves, dwarves, wolfen, and other races.

Humanoid
hu·man·oid   
[hyoo-muh-noid or, often, yoo-] Show IPA
–adjective
1. having human characteristics or form; resembling human beings.
–noun
2. a humanoid being: to search for humanoids in outer space.

Now it is important to note that the term used is not inhuman, or monster, but inhuman monster. Now while inhuman may mean not human, if you take it out of it's context, it loses it's original meaning.

[Damian Magecraft]

Emperor Ryu, suffice it to say that we agree to disagree on this topic, so let's just leave it at that. I have been playing since about 2001, so I got to learn everyone else's rules interpretations and house rules that they have been using for years at that time. That and the fact that I started off playing D&D first which no doubt influenced my interpretations of terminology. While you and your group started off with that definition of RCC that you keep quoting, I started playing Rifts being told that RCC means something else and that has been ingrained in my brain ever since.

Indeed. I just wish this fiasco of "You're wrong.", and "I'm right." child's play would end. Neither of us is going to be correct, because it's just simply a tangible RPG to begin with. We both can agree that we are all passionate with our game plays and understanding. As long as we remain civil and respectful, we can still get along just fine.

you are going to have a hard time proving that... they are no longer in print.

That doesn't mean it's not available to get.

in that case your argument is wrong and will continue to be until that day.

Not from what it states in the books.

nope not even close. nice try though... I have every book palladium has ever published, just re-read the description.

Perhaps if you just focused on the Rifts section, you won't be so confused when you mix other settings outside of the main Rifts settings.

we are not assuming that. You are. By the very way you post.

Ahhh, no. Are you trying to put words in my mouth now?

from here.

Perhaps you could look back on the thread again?

The original Rifts main book is no longer the cannon rule set for rifts, it's R;UE. Plain and simple like it or not, you can state otherwise but you are flat out wrong and that's that. And I am done . DM is correct by the way.

According from the quote from the Ultimate Edition, there is no change from the original book on this subject.

Ok I have scolded others for doing this...
Do not quote me out of context.
You have done so repeatedly.
Doing so proves you are unwilling to debate me intellectually.
And Besides it is the lowest form of flame baiting.

[Damian Magecraft]

I just added him to the foe's list I'm just tired of him. Sad only two people ever and it's for the simple thing of ignoring rules books and scream they are right.

only two?
wow and to think even with the heated debates we have had in other threads (that need not be mentioned here) I never managed it.

That is something for him to be proud of...

[Damian Magecraft]

Ok I have scolded others for doing this...Do not quote me out of context. You have done so repeatedly. Doing so proves you are unwilling to debate me intellectually. And Besides it is the lowest form of flame baiting.

You do understand that I can easily scroll up and make reference to my mind, while still keeping within the context of the discussion, without having to quote the same thing, over and over and over again, and keep it on a civil level in my postings, right?

If you do not understand why it bothers me; my explaining it will only fall on deaf ears or in this case unseeing eyes.
congrats...
you made my ignore list.
In eight years on the boards and hundreds of debates, discussions, and arguments...
you are the first poster to debase your self to that honor.

[dragonfett]

Emperor Ryu, the thing is that you are not taking into consideration to anyone else's possible interpretation of inhuman monster, such as Kevin's, who wrote the damn rules. That is what keeps upsetting me, to put it mildly. You think that your definition is the only one that is right and damn everyone else who disagree's with you, including KS. I am beginning to think that your ego is bigger than KS's (supposedly) large ego.

[Shark_Force]

at some point, when a particular individual demonstrates an inability to actually have a discussion with any sort of intellectual honesty (that is, they simply disregard anything anyone else says and declare that they themselves are the only ones who can be truly right, based on the logic that they must be right because they said so), it is time to stop wasting your own time attempting to have a discussion with them. you may not accomplish anything particularly great by, say, watching paint dry instead, but it is most probable that you will find it to be a less frustrating experience, because after all.... sooner or later, the paint will dry, but the person you're attempting to have a discussion with is not likely to ever acknowledge your points beyond dismissing them from the possibility of being valid on the basis that you aren't kneeling on the ground worshipping that person.

or, to put it another way: don't feed the troll.

(and yes, whether the person intends to be a troll or not, they're being a troll)

[Damian Magecraft]

at some point, when a particular individual demonstrates an inability to actually have a discussion with any sort of intellectual honesty (that is, they simply disregard anything anyone else says and declare that they themselves are the only ones who can be truly right, based on the logic that they must be right because they said so), it is time to stop wasting your own time attempting to have a discussion with them. you may not accomplish anything particularly great by, say, watching paint dry instead, but it is most probable that you will find it to be a less frustrating experience, because after all.... sooner or later, the paint will dry, but the person you're attempting to have a discussion with is not likely to ever acknowledge your points beyond dismissing them from the possibility of being valid on the basis that you aren't kneeling on the ground worshipping that person.

or, to put it another way: don't feed the troll.

(and yes, whether the person intends to be a troll or not, they're being a troll)

well said.

[Zer0 Kay]

at some point, when a particular individual demonstrates an inability to actually have a discussion with any sort of intellectual honesty (that is, they simply disregard anything anyone else says and declare that they themselves are the only ones who can be truly right, based on the logic that they must be right because they said so), it is time to stop wasting your own time attempting to have a discussion with them. you may not accomplish anything particularly great by, say, watching paint dry instead, but it is most probable that you will find it to be a less frustrating experience, because after all.... sooner or later, the paint will dry, but the person you're attempting to have a discussion with is not likely to ever acknowledge your points beyond dismissing them from the possibility of being valid on the basis that you aren't kneeling on the ground worshipping that person.

or, to put it another way: don't feed the troll.

(and yes, whether the person intends to be a troll or not, they're being a troll)

well said.

Reminds me of certain other... trolls on the board. Fotunately they've turned into elitists now and not so much trolls... but I still have them on ignore. Reminds me... Sorry ER but I've wasted enough time on you... your muted.

[Jorel]

I have to say, if that many differing opinions all agree on this one subject, and no one is on your side, then you probably aren't right. That is unless you are making the rules in your own home. I suggest anyone confused about the change in RCC status get themselves a copy of Rifts: Ultimate Edition and read up on the newest clarified set of rules.

[Zer0 Kay]

I have to say, if that many differing opinions all agree on this one subject, and no one is on your side, then you probably aren't right. That is unless you are making the rules in your own home. I suggest anyone confused about the change in RCC status get themselves a copy of Rifts: Ultimate Edition and read up on the newest clarified set of rules.

At least for argument sake... if anyone doesn't like the rules change em in their own house but when arguing the rules their house rules don't belong except maybe a statment of "The way I do it is..." but that is it after that the house rules vs. book rules = wrong in a canon rules argument.

[Jorel]

I suggest anyone confused about the change in RCC status get themselves a copy of Rifts: Ultimate Edition and read up on the newest clarified set of rules.

Besides, there really isn't much change in the rules from the Original Book anyways.

Besides, you'd have to read it to know that anyways.

Are you saying that from experience? Have you read it? If clarifying and updating rules isn't changing them...what is? It doesn't have to be new rules to make it worth using. I don't care about the fact that you play with the old out of date rules. I just want other people who also read these threads to know what the correct, current, and updated rulings are. That way when new people encounter Palladium's megaverse then they will get a smoother, less bumpy ride, than we did learning under the old system.

[dragonfett]

Jorel, he knows some of the specific terms because I have quoted them, verbatim, from the RUE, and all he did was twist it around to fit his own views. I was hoping to at least get him to acknowledge that other views (and more popular views, if this thread is any indication) are just as valid, but he won't even do that.

[Damian Magecraft]

Jorel, he knows some of the specific terms because I have quoted them, verbatim, from the RUE, and all he did was twist it around to fit his own views. I was hoping to at least get him to acknowledge that other views (and more popular views, if this thread is any indication) are just as valid, but he won't even do that.

is he still going on about that?

ok for those of you who are not Ryu.
RUE is the source of the definition of an RCC.
An RCC is a being whose powers and skills are so ingrained as to make the being a class unto itself. Dragons are the only example that exist in the RUE.

[Zer0 Kay]

Jorel, he knows some of the specific terms because I have quoted them, verbatim, from the RUE, and all he did was twist it around to fit his own views. I was hoping to at least get him to acknowledge that other views (and more popular views, if this thread is any indication) are just as valid, but he won't even do that.

Meh, he even does that with the old rules he supposedly follows... just look through the MDC thread, where he believes that any SDC damage weapons can do damage to MDC structures. There are three rules and he only follows the first two completely ignoring the third and the example that specifically states that the weapons, that he thinks can damage MDC, can't. It is pointless to try to convince him. I've just relized we are so talking about the poster and not the post so I'm done.

[Zer0 Kay]

Jorel, he knows some of the specific terms because I have quoted them, verbatim, from the RUE, and all he did was twist it around to fit his own views. I was hoping to at least get him to acknowledge that other views (and more popular views, if this thread is any indication) are just as valid, but he won't even do that.

is he still going on about that?

ok for those of you who are not Ryu.
RUE is the source of the definition of an RCC.
An RCC is a being whose powers and skills are so ingrained as to make the being a class unto itself. Dragons are the only example that exist in the RUE.

So now it is skills specifically an not just a power set or skill selection that is only available to a single species? So are there any others that would classify anymore?

[Shark_Force]

Jorel, he knows some of the specific terms because I have quoted them, verbatim, from the RUE, and all he did was twist it around to fit his own views. I was hoping to at least get him to acknowledge that other views (and more popular views, if this thread is any indication) are just as valid, but he won't even do that.

is he still going on about that?

ok for those of you who are not Ryu.
RUE is the source of the definition of an RCC.
An RCC is a being whose powers and skills are so ingrained as to make the being a class unto itself. Dragons are the only example that exist in the RUE.

So now it is skills specifically an not just a power set or skill selection that is only available to a single species? So are there any others that would classify anymore?

there are actually a fair number. most of them are supernatural beings, though. there's probably a few others (i think there's a few sentient insect races that would qualify as well?)

but for example, i would say that most were-creatures are probably appropriate as an RCC. they don't learn their magic and/or psionics, they just know them inherently.

[Jorel]

I understand your choice to remain blind in the face of obvious truth, after all ignorance is bliss. You can't judge thoroughly or properly for yourself based on someone else's limited explanation of something unless you are comfortable giving off the appearance of a fool.

[Damian Magecraft]

Jorel, he knows some of the specific terms because I have quoted them, verbatim, from the RUE, and all he did was twist it around to fit his own views. I was hoping to at least get him to acknowledge that other views (and more popular views, if this thread is any indication) are just as valid, but he won't even do that.

is he still going on about that?

ok for those of you who are not Ryu.
RUE is the source of the definition of an RCC.
An RCC is a being whose powers and skills are so ingrained as to make the being a class unto itself. Dragons are the only example that exist in the RUE.

So now it is skills specifically an not just a power set or skill selection that is only available to a single species? So are there any others that would classify anymore?

In all honesty an RCC is a creature that is so "mechanically" powerful that making it a class is the only way to "balance" it. (this is what IMO it has always been intended to be).
But according to RUE the only RCCs are generally either actual Creatures of Magic (like the Dragon) or are Supernatural creatures (Faeries for example).

[Damian Magecraft]

Well, I think SDC should be able to.... that 1 to 100 still makes the attempt pretty pointless.

Well technically SDC can damage MDC but only if 100 points or more are delivered in a single attack/blow.
But debate on this is not relevant to this thread.

[Damian Magecraft]

I understand your choice to remain blind in the face of obvious truth, after all ignorance is bliss.

Are you implying that the quotes provided from the Ultimate Edition, in this thread, is false?

I am sitting here looking at both books, side by side and they are not the same. I don't understand how you can say two things are the same if you don't own one of them.

because obviously we are lying about what is in the RUE...
Or we are plainly too blind to see what "his brilliance" is pointing out to us...

[LostOne]

Wow, this debate with Emperor Ryu's stubborness ceased to gain any new ground and stopped being interesting pages ago. I'm unsubscribing, I suggest everyone else do too.

[Jorel]

I still say he is a fool, and ignorant for ignoring what is clearly the most recent rules clarification. If you don't understand that Damian, then I'm sorry for you also.

[Lenwen]

Wow, this debate with Emperor Ryu's stubborness ceased to gain any new ground and stopped being interesting pages ago. I'm unsubscribing, I suggest everyone else do too.

you think this is bad .. you should see the Cosmo Knight thread ..

LMAO !!

[Damian Magecraft]

I still say he is a fool, and ignorant for ignoring what is clearly the most recent rules clarification. If you don't understand that Damian, then I'm sorry for you also.

ok if I did not know better I would think you are under the impression that I am on ryu's side...
But surely you have been reading the same posts I have?

[Jorel]

I still say he is a fool, and ignorant for ignoring what is clearly the most recent rules clarification. If you don't understand that Damian, then I'm sorry for you also.

ok if I did not know better I would think you are under the impression that I am on ryu's side...
But surely you have been reading the same posts I have?

Dude, if you can't read sarcasm without an emoticon, you might not be that far off your mark.

[Damian Magecraft]

I still say he is a fool, and ignorant for ignoring what is clearly the most recent rules clarification. If you don't understand that Damian, then I'm sorry for you also.

ok if I did not know better I would think you are under the impression that I am on ryu's side...
But surely you have been reading the same posts I have?

Dude, if you can't read sarcasm without an emoticon, you might not be that far off your mark.

the printed word does not convey tone or inflection well... Hence the creation of emotes... Yeah I suspected as much, but old geek reflexes are hard to break...

[Jorel]

I still say he is a fool, and ignorant for ignoring what is clearly the most recent rules clarification. If you don't understand that Damian, then I'm sorry for you also.

ok if I did not know better I would think you are under the impression that I am on ryu's side...
But surely you have been reading the same posts I have?

Dude, if you can't read sarcasm without an emoticon, you might not be that far off your mark.

the printed word does not convey tone or inflection well... Hence the creation of emotes... Yeah I suspected as much, but old geek reflexes are hard to break...

I do think he's a fool, my reference to sarcasm was in relation to a previous post, not quoted.

[Jorel]

Way to continue to ignore the obvious.

[Jorel]

I agree, you keep missing the point. That is weird.

[Jorel]

Somethings have definitely changed, but please continue to miss that fact. You are doing a superb job.

[Jorel]

I agree about the childishness. Most people understand basic concepts. You seem to ignore them.

[Jorel]

I cannot change a stupid, boring rock with no intelligence. Why do you think you are any different? As in you are being a stubborn person who refuses to see any side but their own.

[Jorel]

In regards to this topic, my answer still is, . . . an R.C.C. is for species who are not 100% human in the RPG.

You've stated that opinion an uncountable (cause I wont waste the time) number of times.

[Lenwen]

This is funny .. +1 !!

[Zer0 Kay]

Jorel, he knows some of the specific terms because I have quoted them, verbatim, from the RUE, and all he did was twist it around to fit his own views. I was hoping to at least get him to acknowledge that other views (and more popular views, if this thread is any indication) are just as valid, but he won't even do that.

is he still going on about that?

ok for those of you who are not Ryu.
RUE is the source of the definition of an RCC.
An RCC is a being whose powers and skills are so ingrained as to make the being a class unto itself. Dragons are the only example that exist in the RUE.

So now it is skills specifically an not just a power set or skill selection that is only available to a single species? So are there any others that would classify anymore?

there are actually a fair number. most of them are supernatural beings, though. there's probably a few others (i think there's a few sentient insect races that would qualify as well?)

but for example, i would say that most were-creatures are probably appropriate as an RCC. they don't learn their magic and/or psionics, they just know them inherently.

As do dog boys with their powers, but I thought in the RUE it is dominantly about the skills. Since the Dog Boys have a large skill selection instead of a bunch of fixed skills with a few choices that is why they became OCC.

[Zer0 Kay]

Well, I think SDC should be able to.... that 1 to 100 still makes the attempt pretty pointless.

Huh? I know I made the comment and it was about a person but comments directly toward this topic should be made over in the thread that is also currently going on.