Best ways to stop a CK .. any way you can ..

[The Beast]

I really don't see what's the point to this thread.

There's another (now locked) thread about wether or not CKs could be subjected to bio-wizardry, and some posters not only ignored the evidence from the books that said it could happen, but then went on to say it would be impossible to capture a CK in the first place.

I never said it was impossible. Thats how the whole thing got ugly. Making claims that I said something I didn't. In fact I normally say that Rifts has no world beaters.

Did I say it was you?

[MaxxSterling]

That's right, CK's suck, they are mid-level players at best. I'd just use anything that isn't Plasma or fire on them. How about my 3rd level ley-line walker... Sorry, but they aren't that great. However, I would not want to fight one in hand to hand in the vacuum of space. Only the home-field advantage for them, would actually make a "real" evil-doer sweat.

[Crucible]

I really don't see what's the point to this thread.

There's another (now locked) thread about wether or not CKs could be subjected to bio-wizardry, and some posters not only ignored the evidence from the books that said it could happen, but then went on to say it would be impossible to capture a CK in the first place.

I never said it was impossible. Thats how the whole thing got ugly. Making claims that I said something I didn't. In fact I normally say that Rifts has no world beaters.

Did I say it was you?

Well, I didn't see ANYONE say that it was impossible. Just a few posters who expanded and were told that they were incorrect.

As I have said in a past post...the power creep sets in with more magic than anything else. Even then they are not world beaters. My Fallen was pretty tough...but was not a world beater.

[Crucible]

IMO Glitterboy Boom Gun. it's called the Holy Grail for a reason. CK are not immune to it and it does great damage with lots of range. GB's also have enough MDC to stand up to CK attacks, at least for a bit.

yep

[Nekira Sudacne]

So what happens when the Cosmo Knight puts the Glitter Boy into a full nelson?

[cornholioprime]

What is the way you would stop a Cosmo-Knight ?

This 'pre-presumes' that I have some means or other of figuring out where it patrols, spends its off-time, or both.

CAREFULLY stalk it.

At a time of my choosing -after weeks of studying the creature, if need be -cast "Domination" on it (and hope like hell he doesn't save).

Command it to perform the alignment-neutral actions of putting on two pairs of magical shackles at the same time -one pair of Anti-Metamorphosis shackles, and one pair of Anti-Strength shackles.

Sell him to the Splugorth to get me a nice little bundle of cash.

[Crucible]

So what happens when the Cosmo Knight puts the Glitter Boy into a full nelson?

Then I think it's a matter of who hits who first. Think of it this way. A CK, normally immune to damge in phase world(Most people there use energy) and he see this power armor pointing agun at him. Most likely he's not even going to try to dodge. he gets hit, for lots of damage, and that much it would have to hurt. Thus the GB can either keep hitting him or force the CK to retreat.

Thre are no GB's in ANY of the Phase World dimensions? I thought there were. I never placed them out there though. GB's in space or something.

[Crucible]

So what happens when the Cosmo Knight puts the Glitter Boy into a full nelson?

Then I think it's a matter of who hits who first. Think of it this way. A CK, normally immune to damge in phase world(Most people there use energy) and he see this power armor pointing agun at him. Most likely he's not even going to try to dodge. he gets hit, for lots of damage, and that much it would have to hurt. Thus the GB can either keep hitting him or force the CK to retreat.

Thre are no GB's in ANY of the Phase World dimensions? I thought there were. I never placed them out there though. GB's in space or something.

By the books, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I've never seen them.

I think you're correct. The only place that I have seen them is Mutants in Space.

[Crucible]

Archangel23

This may be true, but needs to be played out. I honestly think the GB may have the edge...but I once thought a Mega Juicer had the edge over a Cyber Knight until it played out.

[The Beast]

DB2, page 114, last paragraph on the left:

Glitter boys of the original design, the new Triax version, and space models can be found throughout the 3 Galaxies.

[Nekira Sudacne]

DB2, page 114, last paragraph on the left:

Glitter boys of the original design, the new Triax version, and space models can be found throughout the 3 Galaxies.

Hmmmm, even so, it may remove the surprise of not knowing what the Glitter Boy is, but still, the GB has more range then the CK and if he catches him by surprise then thats lots of damage form the Boom Gun.

The CK is more than able to take several shots from a boom gun in either case.

And besides, are you seriously trying to tell me a Cosmo Knight dosn't know the difference between a rail gun and an energy gun by looking? Seriously? There are LOTS of rail guns in the three galaxies. ships use them, borgs and power armor use them, hell, they have PISTOL rail guns people whip out of their jackets. A CK knows his limitations and is not arrogant.

[Crucible]

Archangel23

This may be true, but needs to be played out. I honestly think the GB may have the edge...but I once thought a Mega Juicer had the edge over a Cyber Knight until it played out.

but the GB would. the cosmo knight has no information on him and seeing a big, shiny, man pointing a gun at you, which more often then not fires an energy beam, your not going to think it's a Threat.

And why wouldn't a mega juicer have an advantage over a Cyber-Knight? Don't give the mega juicer any armor or weapons and he'd be able to win.

Thats why I said, it has to be played out. The Cyber-Knight beat the Mega Juicer in this game, good rolls, smart actions, and role-play. Sometimes that can trump a template and very well.

Question, how long would it take for the Cosmo Knight to realize the capabilities of the immobile GB shooting from a fixed spot?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Archangel23

This may be true, but needs to be played out. I honestly think the GB may have the edge...but I once thought a Mega Juicer had the edge over a Cyber Knight until it played out.

but the GB would. the cosmo knight has no information on him and seeing a big, shiny, man pointing a gun at you, which more often then not fires an energy beam, your not going to think it's a Threat.

And why wouldn't a mega juicer have an advantage over a Cyber-Knight? Don't give the mega juicer any armor or weapons and he'd be able to win.

Thats why I said, it has to be played out. The Cyber-Knight beat the Mega Juicer in this game, good rolls, smart actions, and role-play. Sometimes that can trump a template and very well.

Question, how long would it take for the Cosmo Knight to realize the capabilities of the immobile GB shooting from a fixed spot?

About four seconds.

A GB is a one trick pony.

[kdyal]

Have them go against the Coalition - Sembieda Fiat will automatically kick in, and the CK is toast...

[Nekira Sudacne]

Five or six flying powerarmors, let's say samus and a few lucky attack rolls for the railguns. In ngr territory just a few borgs mith railguns and u.round. nothing is unkillable not even the cosmoknight. The more oppenents the more chance of a critical hit.

Not very good. Cosmo Knight speed starts at Mach 10. if things go aginst them they just fly away.

[Balabanto]

Archangel23

This may be true, but needs to be played out. I honestly think the GB may have the edge...but I once thought a Mega Juicer had the edge over a Cyber Knight until it played out.

but the GB would. the cosmo knight has no information on him and seeing a big, shiny, man pointing a gun at you, which more often then not fires an energy beam, your not going to think it's a Threat.

And why wouldn't a mega juicer have an advantage over a Cyber-Knight? Don't give the mega juicer any armor or weapons and he'd be able to win.

Thats why I said, it has to be played out. The Cyber-Knight beat the Mega Juicer in this game, good rolls, smart actions, and role-play. Sometimes that can trump a template and very well.

Question, how long would it take for the Cosmo Knight to realize the capabilities of the immobile GB shooting from a fixed spot?

The reason why the CK won that fight is Zen Combat, penalties, and automatic dodge vs. the Juicer Biocomp. Plus, 2 Psi-Swords vs. Supernatural Strength is about an even swap out, and you can't disarm a Psi Sword. Plus, only an idiot would try to grapple someone who can turn the psi swords into psi-knives and stab him in the face repeatedly while being squeezed. There are dozens of good reasons why the CK would win that battle. You're underestimating how potent that class is. Plus, Cyberknights can have magic tattoos, and the PPE to use them. Think about that one for a minute.

The Cosmo Knight vs. the Glitter Boy is another story entirely. This is, quite simply, a slaughter. The CK will smash the glitter boy into pulp unless terrain is on the side of the GB. What the CK does not have, and the GB does, is an advanced elite sensor array that allows him to select the battlefield and terms of combat. Literally, If I'm the GB, I want the CK to be outside a copse of thick, heavy MDC foliage while I am on the inside (Preferably with monsters that don't care about technology but feed on cosmic energy). I don't need to be that fast. I just need to know the terrain better than my opponent. If the Cosmo-Knight can't
adjust for this, or is forced to blast through the trees to get to me, I have won, because I can pick my shots and he can't.

In fact, I would argue that about 90 percent of Rifts characters that die do so because they misjudge the tactical situation and the terrain, and not over die rolls.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Archangel23

This may be true, but needs to be played out. I honestly think the GB may have the edge...but I once thought a Mega Juicer had the edge over a Cyber Knight until it played out.

but the GB would. the cosmo knight has no information on him and seeing a big, shiny, man pointing a gun at you, which more often then not fires an energy beam, your not going to think it's a Threat.

And why wouldn't a mega juicer have an advantage over a Cyber-Knight? Don't give the mega juicer any armor or weapons and he'd be able to win.

Thats why I said, it has to be played out. The Cyber-Knight beat the Mega Juicer in this game, good rolls, smart actions, and role-play. Sometimes that can trump a template and very well.

Question, how long would it take for the Cosmo Knight to realize the capabilities of the immobile GB shooting from a fixed spot?

The reason why the CK won that fight is Zen Combat, penalties, and automatic dodge vs. the Juicer Biocomp. Plus, 2 Psi-Swords vs. Supernatural Strength is about an even swap out, and you can't disarm a Psi Sword. Plus, only an idiot would try to grapple someone who can turn the psi swords into psi-knives and stab him in the face repeatedly while being squeezed. There are dozens of good reasons why the CK would win that battle. You're underestimating how potent that class is. Plus, Cyberknights can have magic tattoos, and the PPE to use them. Think about that one for a minute.

Umm, question, sinse when did Zen combat apply vs. bio comp. it dosn't interact with the cyber knight in any way. it dosn't detect the cyber knight, it dosn't acknowlage it's exsistance, it's function has nothing and does nothing that zen combat interacts with.

[Balabanto]

It is a piece of technology. I wouldn't be the first person to use this interpretation, either. Technically, if you can use telemechanics on it, you can Zen Combat it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It is a piece of technology. I wouldn't be the first person to use this interpretation, either. Technically, if you can use telemechanics on it, you can Zen Combat it.

Except your not fighting the bio-comp. You might as well say that you can use zen combat on a toaster.

[Balabanto]

What the CK does not have, and the GB does, is an advanced elite sensor array that allows him to select the battlefield and terms of combat.

I could swear a CK had sensory capabilities on the level of being able to detect starships by sight from great distances.

That does not include ground-penetrating radar. A magnification of a tree gets you a giant bark pattern, not what's on the other side of it.

[gelidus]

Archangel23

This may be true, but needs to be played out. I honestly think the GB may have the edge...but I once thought a Mega Juicer had the edge over a Cyber Knight until it played out.

but the GB would. the cosmo knight has no information on him and seeing a big, shiny, man pointing a gun at you, which more often then not fires an energy beam, your not going to think it's a Threat.

And why wouldn't a mega juicer have an advantage over a Cyber-Knight? Don't give the mega juicer any armor or weapons and he'd be able to win.

Thats why I said, it has to be played out. The Cyber-Knight beat the Mega Juicer in this game, good rolls, smart actions, and role-play. Sometimes that can trump a template and very well.

Question, how long would it take for the Cosmo Knight to realize the capabilities of the immobile GB shooting from a fixed spot?

The reason why the CK won that fight is Zen Combat, penalties, and automatic dodge vs. the Juicer Biocomp. Plus, 2 Psi-Swords vs. Supernatural Strength is about an even swap out, and you can't disarm a Psi Sword. Plus, only an idiot would try to grapple someone who can turn the psi swords into psi-knives and stab him in the face repeatedly while being squeezed. There are dozens of good reasons why the CK would win that battle. You're underestimating how potent that class is. Plus, Cyberknights can have magic tattoos, and the PPE to use them. Think about that one for a minute.

The Cosmo Knight vs. the Glitter Boy is another story entirely. This is, quite simply, a slaughter. The CK will smash the glitter boy into pulp unless terrain is on the side of the GB. What the CK does not have, and the GB does, is an advanced elite sensor array that allows him to select the battlefield and terms of combat. Literally, If I'm the GB, I want the CK to be outside a copse of thick, heavy MDC foliage while I am on the inside (Preferably with monsters that don't care about technology but feed on cosmic energy). I don't need to be that fast. I just need to know the terrain better than my opponent. If the Cosmo-Knight can't
adjust for this, or is forced to blast through the trees to get to me, I have won, because I can pick my shots and he can't.

In fact, I would argue that about 90 percent of Rifts characters that die do so because they misjudge the tactical situation and the terrain, and not over die rolls.

Magic tats are really over ratted... Not many you can get that are usable..... As you need 2x the ppe to use it if you not a tat man or such.


And if memory serves kc ruled that Zen does not work on a bio comp... No don't ask me where I don't know I wanna say it was one of the chat room things he did awhile back but I'm prolly wrong.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Zen combat works by sensing when a machine senses you and telling you when your targeted and how to react.

Bio-comps do not have any sensory ability, ergo, there is nothing for zen combat to interact with.

[Crucible]

You say that as if algebra isn't fun, and the game is more about physics than math anyways.

Physics, math, religion...they can all be annoying in an RPG.

[Gamer]

Max wrote:
You say that as if algebra isn't fun, and the game is more about physics than math anyways.

Cruciable wrote:
Physics, math, religion...they can all be annoying in an RPG.

I agree with Cruciable completely, but I also can see Max's point of view. Some people like math. I used to know a guy that did algebra in his head (No calculator, paper, or whatever) for fun. However, I never really saw him enjoy the games we played, unless he could reduce it all to an equation. Now, in an online game, math is a huge help. So any experienced online game playr knows how to maximize things so his or her char will live and kick rear. That said, when it comes time to swing swords, fire bows, or use that orbital strike, it all falls to luck, something math can only guess at since luck is chaos and math has problems with chaos. I have played in games, PnP and Computer/online, and anytime someone brings up religion or politics, the best bet to not cause a war is to back out of the conversation politely. Otherwise, it's pretty much guaranteed people will be fighting inside 5 minutes. Physics, well, it's a game. There is the whole 'suspension of disbelief' deal that's integral to any game ones plays. Folks who insist all those lasers, bows, armor, and so on has to be 100% real shouldn't be playing a game, they should be working for NASA. It all falls down to what people enjoy however, and I don't mean to sound like I'm insulting anyone's play styles, I just am relaying my own observations and experience. Ultimately, the final deciding factor for any playstyl is "Is it fun"

I agree there is a time and place for everything and sometimes there isn't.
Every goup is like a snowflake they may look the same but up close they have their differences.
The same with players not all of us want to game the same way others do.